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Sometimes other people misery does make your life look good
February 9, 2009
8:07 am
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Philips
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Every once in a while , just when you think your life is crap, you talk to someone who is worse off than you are. While it does suck for your friend. It does put things into perspective.

My buddy is going thru a divorce and is in a huge custody battle with his kids. For the last bunch of years (about 10) he has been a stay at home dad. He does computer consulting which allows him to tele-commute most days. This worked out great for him and allowed him to look after his kids, still earn a decent living and allowed his STBX to get a degree. Life was great, until she graduated from university and BOOM, she filed for divorce within weeks of getting her first job. ALL in ALL that would be terrible , but now she has also decided that even though he has been the primary caregiver for the two boys, she wants full custody and wants him limited to 2 days a month of visitation.

He hired a lawyer and has been fighting in court to keep the current arrangements in place. He has custody and she has liberal visitation. The problem is that she is fighting him on it and it is very costly to have to keep going back to court. He has been to court 22 times in the last 2 years over the exact same issues. Of course, he pays for his lawyer but she doesn't. WHY, where we live she is eligible for a 'welfare' lawyer.

He has spent over $30,000 so far on lawyers fighting for this. This is money that could have been spent on the kids and now it is gone. Right now, she doesn't pay a cent in Child support even though there is a CS order in place and she refuses to pay because if she were to win custody, none of the money she has paid would be required to be back and that is why she won't pay CS.

His life is starting to make mine look fantastic by comparision.

February 9, 2009
12:28 pm
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Philips: So true, so true.

Why did they split up in the first place? Is any of that being taken into consideration in the custody battle? Sounds like your friend is getting the short end of the stick.

sd

February 9, 2009
12:32 pm
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Phillips,

I really feel for your friend.

Man, that just out and out sucks big time!

Whatever 'education' his STBX has under her belt now, obviously she is not 'educated' in the fact of putting her children first by raking their father through the coals and bleeding him 30 grand where that money could have been used towards their future.

That is so sad.

You know, during really, really tough times like this, it is so important that he have a true-blue friend like you.

I understand what you are saying.

Sometimes our 'troubles' are nothing compared to someone else's.

(I think of that sometimes as I drive my car past a bus station and see folks out in the cold and rain waiting at the bus stop.....sometimes even with a baby stroller.)

A real wake-up call!!!!!!

February 9, 2009
3:17 pm
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philips....so very true.

and yes, someone else somewhere does have alot less or worse life than we can image. And sad, but it does make me feel better and appreciate what i do have, cuz things in my life "could" be alot worse as others are.

February 9, 2009
4:31 pm
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Your friend has had custody. Sole custody for over 2 years during their separation.

Not Joint custody.
Who resides in the marital home? How were the marital assets split or have they been yet?

What exactly is "liberal visitation"?.

Your "buddy" has had it all his way for a while. You try to slant your claims as though she is getting it "easy".

I wonder what her income is? NOBODY is eligible for Legal aide unless their income is low.

There's a lot here you don't mention, ( what her graduate studies were, what is her pay and if she found employment in her chosen field) but with the facts you lay out he has total control over everything, and doesn't like the fact she is trying to switch the balance.

Part of determining child custody issues falls into who was the main care giver ( him) and what income do the spouses make. You said he makes good money at home, and she makes ???

Maybe if he arranged interim joint custody, during separation, in the first place this wouldn't be happening.

Why did he go for full custody?

I wonder if she had it so good?

She was working on a degree and he is punishing her for putting the time into that?

She left after she graduated school.

She left! This means she had to uproot herself and establish a new residency away from her kids. She started a new job, is on probation..not a lot of comfort and a great life for her. Why would a women do such a thing? I wonder what really went on between those two during those ten years?

I really wonder what they say to each other because you give second hand info, about people who aren't even posting here.

More of your evidence women are so evil and get away with so much bad behaviour!?LOL

Marriages don't break apart for no reason and they don't end up like long drawn out wars if there wasn't a huge power issue involved.

I had a horrible split up, i know many who have had amicable divorces and joint custody. Despite my split up i try to look at the facts of a situation and not blame men for everything.

But the facts are that women still hold less power in the financial realms of this world, they have many social stigmas and limitations placed on them that men don't have, they still are the main caregivers for children within the family, in child care and educational facilities( almost all elementary teachers are women) and as a whole, are viewed as second class, lesser than all men worldwide.

If you want to get into the stats again lets go there>!

Here's one to wet yer whistle.

"– the number of women under the jurisdiction of state or federal prison authorities increased 1.7% from year end 2006, reaching 114,420, and the number of men rose 1.8%, totaling 1,483,896."

http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

It would be interesting to know how many of those women are in jail for prostitution, drug addiction, theft, or violent crimes? How many had to fight for their lives during a domestic altercation?

Here's another stat site but maybe you'll take offence to the source ( FREDA)

Realize that the sats are obtained by studdying actual court cases. Here is one.

" MYTH:

Men who fight for custody are thinking about the best interests of their child(ren).

REALITY:

Case law studies and literature reviews clearly show that many men who initiate custody and access challenges through the family law court system do so in order to harass or maintain control over their ex-spouses.

In a 1995 study done by Terry Arendell, three-quarters of the fathers she surveyed admitted they had threatened their ex-wives with a custody challenge after the divorce and nearly one-third issued a "formal threat through an attorney." [Source: Terry Arendell, Fathers and Divorce, Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications, 1995.]

Further, battered women are intensely fearful of losing custody, while men who batter feel they have nothing to lose by using custody as a bargaining tactic. [Source: Mildred Daley Pagelow, "Effects of Domestic Violence on Children and their Consequences for Custody and Visitation Agreements," Mediation Quarterly, 7(4), 1990.]

http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/freda/reports/myths.htm

My X applied for full custody to harass and control me. Boy was that fun! He barely spent an hour a day with our son, worked full time, so how the heck was he going to take care of a baby?LOL

If you think in terms of majority it discounts the cases that are different.
I am not one to lump a group together but statistically, when comparing and compiling, i haven't seen anything that backs your claims that women are more abusive, or get a better deal in court.
Women and men just have different roles and the court decisions fall in line with those roles.

It's just that men aren't' getting ALL the deals in their favour anymore. They aren't completely entitled or have the rights to control and brutalize women and children anymore. They can't throw a woman out in the cold, destitute and with no access to marital assets. It still happens sometimes, but is much more rare when it used to be common place.

There's still a lot of social problems, but at least women and children aren't' always the victims anymore in our countries. This isn't Afghanistan!

Oh Boo HOO!

You only wrote a tiny bit about your situation. But here is someone else's story you choose to tell.

I understand what you are saying also. I understand you've left a lot out to make your buddy look like a victim when he's not.

February 9, 2009
6:04 pm
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Definitely true: we feel better when we see our neighbour has it worse than us.

February 9, 2009
6:49 pm
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That may be your take ... yet I choose to have empathy for the severity of what my neighbour may be experiencing. Sometimes it even distracts me from my own pain.

littlespirit

February 9, 2009
7:27 pm
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I had read a study about how the reward centers in our brain light up when we see that the person we're comparing ourselves too does not have it better than us. Cant find the link.

February 10, 2009
1:40 am
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I had a lawyer years ago that once told me, "When it comes to children & custody issues, women are blatantly favored in the courts. Fairness has little to do with it." She reminded me that as she was a women, she hated to have to admit that. Many years ago it used to be that women did indeed get the short end of the stick but, it's the opposite now when it comes to this kind of stuff.

It's like the pendulum of justice has swung well past centre & has gone way too far the other way. Things are slowly changing for men in this area & will undoubtedly even out in the future eventually but, I think it's highly unlikely that we'll ever see it in our lifetime.

I've seen so many of men over the years loose their homes, their cash & their kids & their "stuff" at the hands of an angry women just because they could get away with it. Royally screwed by their x's. (maybe if they'd have been screwed that well when they'd been together, things would've been different?) lol

But seriously, in answer to your question, yea, sad but true, people do tend to feel better about themselves when they see that they are doing better than someone else.

February 10, 2009
6:19 am
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@MSGuided

Where does all YOUR HATE come from.

You obviously have a HUGE problem with MEN that is obvious. I gave you all the info I have on my buddy, you have tried to turn it around to make him seem as though he is a bad father.

As for you stats about "Why do fathers go for custody". You hit on a good point yourself. LOOK at the source of those stats. They 'analyze' court records, this means that they are going to interpert the stats using their slant.

FREDA = Feminist Research Education
Development and Action Centre

Jeez, I wonder how they are going to look at ANY stat. Their entire site is based the the DV model (Duluth) that men are always perps and women are always victims. Please MSGuided, if you are going to quote stats, try finding some that aren't as biased.

February 10, 2009
6:21 am
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Philips
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@MSGuided

"But the facts are that women still hold less power in the financial realms of this world, they have many social stigmas and limitations placed on them that men don't have, they still are the main caregivers for children within the family, in child care and educational facilities( almost all elementary teachers are women) and as a whole, are viewed as second class, lesser than all men worldwide"

You should really learn the difference between FACTS and OPINION.

or learn this saying

"Repeatition of opinions does not make them facts".

February 10, 2009
9:18 am
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Philip, how do you know what goes on behind closed doors? Are you really interested in sharing on this site, or just propagandizing?

February 10, 2009
11:04 am
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SpecialK: He told me what is happening.

February 10, 2009
11:05 am
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Philips
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@SpecialK:

What is propagandizing???

February 10, 2009
11:49 am
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SpecialK and MsGuided, I think you are ganging up on Philips for nothing. This woman was a blood sucking parasitic leech that stuck on to its victim, drinking its blood and using his money to get a degree. When she got the degree and the blood she was looking for, she promptly left its host within a few weeks after years of being together.

The only information you have about the situation is what Philips told you here. Thats all you know so dont go around and assuming that the guy was not the victim because you only know what Philips told you.

Whats your response to the woman leeching on his money to get a degree and then leaving him when she got a job?

February 10, 2009
1:37 pm
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Hate?

I never said anything hatefull.

@ Phillips
Your wounds ware so fresh, any opposing view to yours makes you flame throw. Yea. I think you're a flamer.

You post about a couples divorce where the man has custody already for 2 years, and the $30,000 is the horrible issue?It's just the money?

I don't know if he paid for her schooling, or what arrangement was made between them. I don't know if the exchanges between them were healthy or not.

Many households are run on exchange of duties and money isn't always the determining factor especially when it comes to who is performing most of the domestic duties.

I just asked questions to find out but you just flame.

I've incited others to lie in the past, I am so hatefull..yada yada.

Deflect all you want. You're not a neutral party and you expect me side with you? This isn't support. I can ask questions and oppose your view. I didn't call you names, just ask you to adress your personal issues.

It's so easy to get you upset by posting a FEMA site. You couldn't even stay focused on mere questions.

You didn't answer any of my questions. That says a lot.
All the facts just aren't here.

You resort to name calling.

Sorry I'm not swayed by your claim this man is being "victimized" just because you wirte a few paragraphs and that's it.

And i never claimed men aren't victimized. In fact i pointed out most domestic problems stem from deep social barriers and injustices. I don't think what is reflected in doemstic wars says it all.

I beleive men are given a bad deal due to how they are conditioned also. You didn't want to go deeper into those issues though...It's all about blaming a gender, evening out the scale so to speak?

BTW the stats you posted when you first started your campaign to show women are abusers too, were from a mens website. A mans support group. So i guess they need to be discounted also?

You started your first post as follows:
Thread title on Support:
" Wow, Who wrote the stuff at the beginning of this page"

You started in AAC trying to tear the place down and who? A certain gender that has a majority here? You started on a side that has many abuse victims, and had it pointed out to you that this sort of debate belongs on Libs..yet you continued.

You didn't start by telling your story.YOU started with an agenda to point out women are the major abusers in single mother households.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/.....24-XIE.pdf

You followed this stat link with this ;

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/.....d%208-.pdf

Murray A Straus, Sociology prof, and head of Family Studies at Univ of New Hampshire wrote that article and some of the focus was pointing out the feminist based tactics to supress information.

That is just one article but he does many studies, compiles information. Looking into his writings further would be helpful.

Do you wish to discuss the underlieing elements and compair actual facts or just come to a conclusion. Or resort to flaming?

Where does your passion come from? We still haven't seen the personal side of your story. Just a bunch of stats, a few comments stating you were abused, but no details, history or background.

You came on this site to somehow discount the stories that come from women here. It's not my doing that the ratio of abuse situations in AAC are mostly women claiming abuse. ( and BTW a spousal abuse situation is not why I'm posting here now, but i had a distant history within that spectrum)

If you would of read further, the stat i posted about "why fathers go for custody", noted that the info recieved was obtained by interviewing the fathers, a legitimate published study conducted by Terry Arendell, Dept of sociology at Colby College, New england. It wasn't an assumption picked out of midair by a bunch of militant feminists unless Terry has been labeled as such and may be discounted.

Terry Arendell is a woman, Murray Straus a man....so it is of interest to know what is thier point of reference when it comes to gender roles.

This is the issue i wonder about. Our views on gender roles influence our behaviour toward eachother.

Your reaction to FEMA is a moot point, I already said you may take offense to it.

Guest. MY response is Philips isn't telling the whole story. He is giving second hand info. How do you know she was a leach? a lot of assumptions, judgments and emotionally charged "flaming" being thrown around about people who don't evn post here.

Philips should tell HIS story, about how his X took advantage of him but for some reason sublimates his agenda through people who are strangers for us. There are no court records, quotes or proof for what he says.

I doubt anyone would attack you on support side if you told your story Phillips. But is this all a strategic game to you?

BTW what makes you think I hate men in general? Is it convenient for you to think so?

If you want to keep this to a civil or even passionate debate, then I'm all for it, but anymore of your accusations or judgments toward me, I'm done.

Also.....I don't get off on others misery making me feel "good". Especially if those who suffer are innocent, or made a few mistakes.
I didn't feel better, or focus on that thought, "oh! I'm so much better off!" with my situation when I sat across a woman who had 2 bullet wounds in her side from a domestic and had her children taken away.

I think our definition of misery, and what bolsters our self esteem may be different.

February 10, 2009
4:26 pm
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@MSGuided

Where did you ever get the idea that I wanted you to side with me. You are a little bit full of yourself aren't you.

Yes, the big issue is money , right now he has had custody for 2 years and was the main caregiver for most of their marriage and her fighting is causing him to lose a TON so that he can keep his kids.

The reason I called you HATEFULL is the TONE of your message, you didn't ask questions , you demanded your questions be answered, look at your post and re-read it and understand the tone in which is was written.

Things like

"Your "buddy" has had it all his way for a while. You try to slant your claims as though she is getting it "easy". ." is a demanding tone not a supportive one.

or this

"There's a lot here you don't mention, ( what her graduate studies were, what is her pay and if she found employment in her chosen field) but with the facts you lay out he has total control over everything, and doesn't like the fact she is trying to switch the balance."

HOW did you come up with this is beyond me.

or this

"Marriages don't break apart for no reason and they don't end up like long drawn out wars if there wasn't a huge power issue involved"

As though you know how ALL marriages break up.

Not sure where you live , but I don't think how much the spouses make has anything to do with who gets custody.

Or how about this little GEM

" MYTH:

Men who fight for custody are thinking about the best interests of their child(ren).

REALITY:

Case law studies and literature reviews clearly show that many men who initiate custody and access challenges through the family law court system do so in order to harass or maintain control over their ex-spouses."

Studying the literature, I wonder what that means, perhaps it means they look at over sites that have an agenda and quoted them, iow, circular logic at its best.

What they are saying is that they look at other feminists sites who do "studies' and quote them to prove their study.

February 10, 2009
4:45 pm
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Phillips directed this toward me:

"You should really learn the difference between FACTS and OPINION."

You presented a biased opinion in regards to your friend and his divorce.

There's no doubt you compair his female "troubles" with yours..which still, nothing of any detail has been posted.

Since you like facts here's a few.

I said: "But the facts are that women still hold less power in the financial realms of this world...

Fact sources:

a) http://www.iwpr.org/pdf/C350.pdf

"The ratio of the annual averages of women’s and men’s median annual earnings was 77.8 for full-time workers in 2007, up from 76.9 in 2006. (This means the gender wage gap is now 22.2 percent.) "

In North America

b)http://gstudies.asp.radford.edu/sources/wage_gaps/worldwide.htm

This page has worldwide info.

In Austria women make 67% compaired to men.

In France women make around 70%. "Gender inequalities in France are substantial even though not dramatic by
international standards.

(What are international standards? Data from many African countries, Asia, India are not available. When i searched for India I only found Bangledesh and women weren't even listed as part of the wage study)

In Spain women make 62%.

These stats reflect the working class, but the real wealth in the world is controlled by men. Company heads, state heads, bankers and brokers.

"2% of the people on the planet commandeer half the world’s wealth, while the bottom 50% control, as a whole, only 1%."

I wonder if that 2% on the top has a woman in there? NOPE!

Equality is defined by economics because money controls everything.

Oh yea there are cases of female execs, company heads, and entrepeneurs, but it isn't like the odds are stacked for us. They shouldn't be. That's what the equality and pay equity movement is about. Same pay for same services.

Who are the odds stacked for?

If women are only given dignified power within the realm of child rearing is it such a mystery as to why they hold on to that for dear life?! You give us "Mother" and that's what and who we are through and through.

In divorce that's what so many mothers need to do? Give up their kids!?

I said: "almost all elementary teachers are women"

I couldn't find specific stats but this stat on wages gives the number of teachers surveyed.

Women=5,468 They made an average of $39,532

Men= 927 they made an average of $42,632.

The ammount of elementary teachers that are women was 6 times more than men.

Prove me wrong. I challenge you.

Google the rest yourself.

I guess having to deal with a Non-traditional female like myself is pretty trying. Boo Hoo again...Call me a man hater!

Why does it bother you that I point out differences in genders, specifically in work and income?

I could just as well point out the majority of workers in the feilds of Engineering, Skilled Trades, CEO's, Company Presidents and Managers, are men.

The point I'm making is MOST traditional work women take on has low pay!So many don't get paid at all!

It would be wonderfull if all the money men and women had, exclusively, partitioned by social standing and place of origion ( country) could be presented.

I wonder what the result would be?

Most people know that some jobs tend to attract specific genders.

The whole structure of economics creates victims and i challenge you to find out who the majority of those victims are?

(You can include a lot of soldiers in that ratio too)

BTW.I never said anywhere that your friend was a bad father. Prove that..where's the specific negative quote i made about his father skills?

All i said is he has control and pointed out the fact they are at odds in the divorce.

February 10, 2009
4:48 pm
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Philips, I'm surprised at how innocent your post was and how it was interpreted in such a vile way by MsG. I hope you dont let it effect you. I'm with ya.

February 10, 2009
4:53 pm
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guest..way to promote boys vs. girls!!

and on that note...msg: that's probably the most well-written post i have ever seen from you or anyone else on this site. bravo!

February 10, 2009
5:33 pm
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Phillips...still your story is not your own and is slanted/biased toward your friend.

You said you were victimized, and now he is being victimized.

I don't have to beleive or support your claims on the lib side and i would just opt to not respond if this was on support.

The facts aren't there. Just your assumptions.

AND you continually use deflection tactics to respond. Focusing specifically on how you percieve my emotional response.

ah well....you started here by critisizing the site on the support side. The info is just wrong, so all the participants here are mislead?

One woman was frantic about her situation, losing her kids, having no money or anywhere to turn, and all you could do is attack me personally for giving her support.

That shows a huge lack of respect ( since you didnt'take the time to read the site rules, or the respondants, You just ejected your Triggers onto us all with meerly a mention of your specific problem..This site became the problem and you make it your mission to set me straight instead of help a person in need?)

I do know you don't read the info/pages posted and discount the important fact which I will outline in bold below.

Terry Arendell questioned the fathers in her study directly. A book was published about her findings. It's called "Fathers and Divorce"
The discription head goes as follows.
"Terry Arendell's incisive account surveys the emotional, legal, and financial elements of divorce as they affect men. Covering topics from father's rights and noncustodial parenting to relationships with former spouses, the author considers the `masculinist discourse of divorce' from a feminist perspective. The implications of gender in defining legal and social responses to divorce are also explored, revealing both the traditionalist and innovative strategies that serve as the basis for Arendell's well-founded policy recommendations. Complementing her earlier work Mothers and Divorce, this provocative volume offers a balanced and essential view for students and professionals in gender studies, marriage and family, sociology, social work, and communications. "I am impressed with Arendell's extensive command of feminist theory, her nuanced familiarity with empirical studies on divorced parenting, and most importantly, her own "innovative" research. I especially find her juxtaposition of empirical findings against fathers' testimonies insightful. I highly recommend Fathers and Divorce to both scholarly and lay readers concerned with children's well-being, gender, marriage, and the family." --American Journal of Sociology "Fathers and Divorce will put Terry Arendell at the forefront of the study of divorce. Arendell obtained remarkable data from the men she interviewed on how they negotiate the divorce process with ex-wives for child support, custody, and visitation. These data are unique, and her analysis of the 'masculinist' discourse of divorce is groundbreaking.

http://www.sagepub.com/booksPr.....d=Book4819 "

Just to clarify the source of those stats. Do I have to point out again ( 4 times, the first was the origional post, which had the "interview" info right on the page) that she interviewed these fathers directly?

You said:

"Studying the literature, I wonder what that means, perhaps it means they look at over sites that have an agenda and quoted them, iow, circular logic at its best.

What they are saying is that they look at other feminists sites who do "studies' and quote them to prove their study. "

Oh another one of your educated assumptions?

February 10, 2009
5:46 pm
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lovin life..I doubt it was the most well written, but I like to balance emotionality with facts.

Where's kroika, WD, Tez, bevdee, Ladeska,...oh and so many others i haven't had the opportunity to read, hehe. The AAC googlmaniacs and scholars.

Thanks for the compliment though :0)

I have another question for Phillips.

Since you seem to be interested in agendas ( which i applaud, i also try to read betwen the lines ) It makes me wonder what your agenda is?

Do you think all feminist literature, or anything written by a so called "feminist" is useless?

February 10, 2009
6:29 pm
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@MSGuided

"The ratio of the annual averages of women’s and men’s median annual earnings was 77.8 for full-time workers in 2007, up from 76.9 in 2006. (This means the gender wage gap is now 22.2 percent.) " "

Those numbers are for FULL YEAR, FULL TIME workers. They don't take into account, education, experience, number of hours worked per week and are like comparing apples to elephants. PLUS, FULL YEAR, FULL TIME is defined as someone who works 30+ hours per week for 6 months + 1 day per year, this means you are comparing a surgeon with 8+ years of education and 4+ years of experience with a cashier with 30 hours per week working 7 months a year with no work experience. Jeez, I am not even sure apples to elephants is right.

Where did you get the stats for teachers. Do those stats include principals, university teachers etc.

Here are stats from the US, can't find any on the world

http://www.bizjournals.com/den.....lumn1.html

Also, where did you get the stats that women aren't in the top 2%, since of last year , there were 99 female billionaires, they are surely in the top 2%

February 10, 2009
6:37 pm
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Philips
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@MSGuided:

It appears that you want communism, yes I said communism. WHy would I say that, it appears you don't want the free market to decide wages, you want a government agency to do so. People are paid for
(in no particular order)

1) Education
2) Experience
3) Job Skill
4) Job Conditions
5) How many people want the job

What you want is to throw all this out and go by some highly biased system so that everyone makes the same thing regardless of job.

You would want a long haul trucker to make the same as a receptionist because you would discount working conditions.

Some info on the Wage Gap Myth

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba3...../ba392.pdf

http://www.iwf.org/campus/show.....18948.html

"Equality is defined by economics because money controls everything"

Once again, you offer an opinion disguised as fact.

There is also something you are forgetting. While your stats indicate who earns the money, it does nothing to show who CONTROLS that money. How much influence do wives of these rich men have over that money.

http://www.freemoneyfinance.co.....ontro.html

February 10, 2009
7:58 pm
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MsGuided
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Here is the billionaires list I found

http://www.richest.net/

The first 7 listed were men. 6 and 7 are part of the Walton Family ( Walmart) with the sisters following in positions 8 to 10. (not sure who #9 is male or female)

12 and 13 were women who run cosmetic companies..well that's deserved!Ha!

There were 9 or 10 listed, out of 118 billionaires, who are women.

You said:
"there were 99 female billionaires, they are surely in the top 2% "

Where the heck you get that? Not true.

Here's the actual quote and stat pertaining to women billionaires from that page.
http://www.bizjournals.com/den.....lumn1.html

Still, women have a long way to go when it comes to making big money. Of the 497 billionaires on Forbes magazine's 2002 list of the world's richest people, only 35 -- or 7 percent -- were women.

7% still isn't much. The Walmart ladies are pretty much near the top though. I wonder what the stats are for 2008?

I wonder what kind of influence they all have on the banks and our politicians. Who parlays there power in ethical ways?

And yes the site i posted has worldwide stats but not all of them. Not all countries compile stats especially the developing world. It is in those places where women have very little influence outside the home.

http://gstudies.asp.radford.ed.....ldwide.htm

The France study lists all of the factors like training, PT or fulltime, Day or night workers, percentage of workers in each gender.

There are stats that take into account what you listed, part time, FT, training, education level experience.

I posted a sample. You still haven't provided proof that the worlds wealth is not controlled mostly by men.

If you add up the $$ on that billionaires list, men still are way ahead. They still get huge salaries, bonuses, perks comparitively.

And no it doesn't mean I am compairing a doctor with a cashier. Did I say that or post anything like that? Elephants and apples...boy you really have a tendency to put a negative spin on anything i say or post. It's all persoanl for you isn't it?

I posted stat sites and the info is there.

I'm against unregulated capitalism. In fact I'm a social capitalist.

I like Naomi Klein. Read her?

You also said:
"It appears that you want communism, yes I said communism. WHy would I say that, it appears you don't want the free market to decide wages , you want a government agency to do so. People are paid for (in no particular order)"
"What you want is to throw all this out and go by some highly biased system so that everyone makes the same thing regardless of job."

"You would want a long haul trucker to make the same as a receptionist because you would discount working conditions"

How the heck do you come to the conclusions you draw. I don't recall you asking me any questions and there is nothing in my posts that indicate anything of that nature.

You also said:

"Once again, you offer an opinion disguised as fact."

I suppose that goes for most of your comments above excluding the stats but (Oh yea! You got the female billionaire one wrong. 99?...give us all a break!)

Thanks for doing the homework, but maybe you can refrain from your "opinions" or compilations about me.

(I smell gas.)

Be well! ;0)

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