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Some observations about this Lib side.......
August 13, 2008
5:01 pm
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truthBtold
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I am all for a "healthy RESPECTFUL debate."

It is intellectually stimulating and, at its best, might just well EXPAND my own viewpoint about "things." much to my own personal, previous detriment.

Everyone certainly has their right to express their own opinions about something and be appreciated for just that and I am grateful for the SC to provide such an avenue for us to do so.

However, I have noticed that on a few of these threads that this is not the case.

It simply falls short of what "could be."

There IS debate, to be sure - I am just not altogether sure if it is, in the end, actually HELPFUL to any certain, particular degree.

"Truth Be Told 😉

Seems to me that some are just hell-bent on their own agenda no matter what - and shun at the opportunity to consider anothers' viewpoint - if even for a mere second.....

Debate is good. It gives us an opportunity to not only express our own passionate viewpoints, but also (hopefully) to consider that of the "opposition" as well.

That is real growth, in my opinion!

And afterall - aren't most of us here to grow in the first place?

I just don't seem to find that here very often.

Makes me wonder just why that is?

Perhaps it is indicitive of not so much as to the actual, debatable, current matters at hand, (masquarade) but moreso speaks to some kind of deeper dynamics from our past when our own personal viewpoints and FEELINGS were NEVER acknowledged and/or appreciated and validated as a child - and we vigilantly hold so true and so fast and so tight to that - much to our own detriment as an adult - that we MISS the opportunity to really and truly engage in something which could turn out to be quite helpful and meaningful to our own lives - it would seem.

This is a GREAT avenue for mutual expression and hopefully additional insight which might be gained from an opposing viewpoint....much to our own personal enlightenment - just sometimes I think, some lose sight of this incredible opportunity.

It all boils down to maybe taking a time out about a passionate subject and saying - you know what? Maybe I was WRONG about this or that? Maybe so and so DOES have a valid point about this or that....

You know what that's called?

Humility.

Humility which can work MUCH to our benefit in incredibly and absolutely surprisingly, hidden ways!!!!!!!

(Might even address some deep-seated issues of our own - in a round about way.)

Like, let's just say for example that I have this hell-bent conviction about myself of not being a "good person - or worse yet, that I am a "non-person" or an "object"

When I receive a (no agenda) compliment from some innocent SINCERE person whom challenges that old built-in mindset of mine - It's been my reality to naturally pooh-pooh their observations (however legitimate) and just "stick to my guns" and in the end - you know what? I lose.

We ALL Lose!!!!

We lose because we fail to take their viewpoint into consideration!!!!!!

When someone gives us a sincere compliment about our character and we have been CONDITIONED to not ever consider "their way of thinking" about that - you know what that says? It says that we lack humilty.

We lack humility in the fact that maybe....just maybe.....someone might just have a very reasonable and valid (healthy) viewpoint (complimentary) about us that we are just not willing (for now) to fully accept.

And who are we to challenge their perceptions?

(Therein - I think - we can become vulnerable/slave to our own dynamics - if we so allow it)

I truly think and feel that much can be learned here for our own healthy benefit - you know - if we capitalize on the opportunity before us.

Just have to kind of really "fess up" and see it for what it really is - a chance - an opportunity - to really GROW and ultimatetly feel better about ourselves in the long run!!!!!!!!

And - afterall - isn't that what this is really all about???????

REALLY??????

I have posted a few personal comments on some of these threads only to be completely and utterly ignored.

So be it.

I throw it out there. Sometimes there are some bites, sometimes not.

Anyway, like I said - just some observations..........

Food for thought........

August 13, 2008
5:32 pm
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>> some kind of deeper dynamics from our past when our own personal viewpoints and FEELINGS were NEVER acknowledged and/or appreciated and validated as a child

Hmmmm. This is true for me. As for the possibility of me being inflexible for other opinions and being 'military' about it, I really dont know. I'm kind of experimenting. I'm just doing my thing.

So yea, did you think of me when writing this? heh

August 13, 2008
6:44 pm
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StronginHim77
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Yes, guest -

Your postings have always shown alot of deep woundedness...probably from your childhood relationships because you are not that old.

- Ma

August 13, 2008
6:54 pm
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truthBtold
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To be honest with you guest_guest, yeah - you were part of that whole mix - but not completely alone by any means.

Thanks for having the "Moxie" and "Hoodspah" courage to "step up to the plate!!!!" with your reply just now.

I truly mean no disrespect to anyone here.

Honestly and truly.

I have no malicious or opposing agenda.

A "real friend" sometimes tells you not so much what you WANT to hear - but sometimes what you NEED to hear.

Please - no ill feelings here at all towards anyone at all.

My motivations here are completely genuine & honorable.

Truly.

(I only express that which I could have hoped for someone telling me years ago which could have prevented me from years of "floundering" about is all.)

I honestly DO wish the best for ALL concerned here - I actually see and feel a great amount of courage and conviction with everyone - even though I might disagree - on the surface - with their "particular" frame of reference and convictions.

In the end - it's all good - you know?

IT'S ALL GOOD!!!!!

There are so many truly intelligent, wise and GOOD PEOPLE here!!!!

I see it. I feel it.

I KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!!!!!!!

I just hate to think that ANY of us are giving ourselves a bad rap - you know?

That's what I see and think and feel.

Bottom line: Takes GUTS to explore the reasoning behind our actions.

But in the end - you know somethin' what - it's worth it.

WE ARE WORTH IT!!!!!

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US!!!!!!!!

(No frickin' doubt!!!!!)

My only goal is to try and hold up a mirror of sorts to everyone here and say - LOOK HERE - LOOK AT THIS INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL, INTELLIGENT WORTHY, PERSON!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!!!!!!

If only we had just ONE inkling of one ioda of the GOODNESS that others see in us - oh my - what a wonderful world this would be!!!!!

We ARE ALL GOOD PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!

Damn skippy - (as we say here in the south 🙂

tBt

August 13, 2008
7:08 pm
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truthBtold
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Ma Strong -

Posts crossed.

Your reply COULD be miscontrued as being condescending towards guest_guest's honest and open post.

But I digress.

I could be wrong.

Please tell me that I am wrong in this assumption?

(A good thing to try and clarify things before they become out of hand - you know?)

Afterall, who HASN'T BEEN deeply wounded in the first place - you know?

PLEASE Ma Strong - let's not start another round of "pointing fingers" -

PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Let's just all try to get beyond that mess!!!!!

PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.

I could be way off base here in your comments - I certaintly hope so.

August 13, 2008
7:48 pm
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WizardofAus
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I think it was Mark Twain who said something like, "We do not have to worry about our ignorances nearly as much as those things we believe to be absolutely true, but which simply ain't so."

I have always regarded humility as one of the keys to the effectiveness of the twelve steps. It is hard to see a new possibility when we are convinced that we already know it all.

One of my favourite lines is Bob Dylan's "the whole congregation had God on their side." I do not see this as aimed solely at Christianity, the phenomenon can be found in almost any group that works hard enough to exclude any foreign ideas which might threaten their pet ideology.

I also love the Quakers definition of prayer as "lowly listening", when we approach God to genuinely hear what He has to say, rather than to petition for my particular desires. In this sense it is helpful to remember that in here, our higher power can often speak to us through the post full of new ideas from a fellow seeker.

Our genuine curiosity is a small price to pay for the healing that we sometime receive from the alternative thoughts of another.

August 13, 2008
8:06 pm
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Hi tBt (I hope it's ok if I abbreviate your name),

I agree with you in a lot of your observations. However, if I could point something out that I've noticed in my day to day living......

Since I work in a "team" environment (if you will, somewhere between 15 to 20 people all connected and listening to what each other is doing via a headset), I've noticed that if something goes wrong or is misunderstood, the whole group ends up getting scolded, instead of the person or persons who are responsible. Which leaves those of us to wonder if we did something wrong or hurt someones feelings etc.

I know why most people do this, they don't want to hurt anyones feelings. They don't want to point at anyone because they don't know how that person will take it. So they just use the whole group. But I've found that what usually ends up happening is the opposite. Most people will turn on themselves thinking they did something wrong and all the talk about feeling good about yourself and how we're all worth it kinda gets lost.

I think it would be refreshing if whoever has a problem with a certain person or topic to come out and say they have a problem or concern instead of lumping everyone into it.

That way you get at the root of it. Know what I mean? JMO.

Peace.

Hep.

BTW, JMO again but I don't think Ma Strong was condesending at all. Not that she needs me to stick up for her. ha

August 13, 2008
8:45 pm
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hi TBT, yea, MaStrong was just being nice, I didnt mind her post at all.

How can I mind anyone's post really, I go around and blah blahing all I want.

So well here's the thing. Lately I've been getting angry or pissed of a lot, easily. I'm not like that all the time, but when I'm angry at something, I get very angry.

I feel its ok for now. Maybe its part of me letting out whatever there is and not be afraid of people. In that time I might learn to mellow down. Maybe its a step to fix my social anxiety. I really dont care at this point. I admit, I'm not caring about people at all.

Oh well, I'm not really bohtered at this point. I think I'm pretty agitated these days. I'm thinking its probably going to be temporary.

I'm also not a good listener at all. Sometimes I dont care at all what people are saying and that ends up with them not caring what I have to say, heh. Oh well. At this point I'm just letting things be with little intervention. It doesnt bother me, but I think I'm unstable right now. Maybe its the road to stability. Its like Spring cleaning when everything's a big mess. You cant clean stuff without first having it all out and only then it gets organized. The probability of this happening might just be very low, who knows.

August 13, 2008
9:12 pm
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Hi Guest.

I have this mad hunch. Are you trying to say something in here but you are not sure what will happen if you say it? So you write this other stuff to fill the time and space?

You are obviously a risk taker. So why not just say it and see what happens?

What about taking Ernest Hemmingway's advice for writer's block; "just write down the truest thing you know." Just a few sentences about the truest thing that you know; but it has to be the one truest thing.

Share your truth.

August 13, 2008
9:18 pm
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No Wiz, I'm saying what I have in mind. I have nothing else to talk about (sadly heh, oops).

But golly, the truest thing you say huh. What could that be! Ahhhhh. I dont know? What do you think it might be? I dont know, my mind is honestly blank right now.

Here's the truth. I'm hungry and lonely and not getting enough sleep. What else. Mmmmmm. Yea, thats it. If thats what you want wanted.

Do you want me to make you a cup of tea? lol. oops. kidding!

August 13, 2008
10:11 pm
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Oh I just LOVE these lectures...

"listen children this how we behave appropriately" haha!

Ya know ya can't control the behavior and actions of others, so ya just gotta take it or leave it.

what I love about libs side is that ya don't have to worry about offending people. Ya say what's on your mind and if somebody's offended, they take responsibility for it. Versus all that drama crap that ensues when somebody will NOT taking responsibility for their reaction to a post.

i dunno...I like libs just the way it is!

And ALL the people here too!

free

August 13, 2008
10:56 pm
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Hi, Guest.

So how come you are hungry, lonely and tired? I'm curious. Is this a long term situation or just how you felt at that point in time? I hate to think of you hungry from one week to the next, is that how it is, or had you just not cooked dinner yet?

August 13, 2008
11:09 pm
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Welll, I was playing this computer game and I havent gone out But today's actually a bad day. I dont do it like this usually. I think I'm gonna go now. I was playing Flight Simulator, landing a 747 in a monsoon season, awesome! The power of that thing. Ahhh and then I was flying my radio control helicopter. Alright then I'm off I think. Gotta try to sleep on time, not like yesterday.

And lonely well I dont take out the time to socialize. Tired because I'm not sleeping on time. Ok then I'm off!

August 13, 2008
11:11 pm
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CU soon, Guest.

Any chance of socialising somewhere, somehow tomorrow?

Sleep well.

August 14, 2008
8:39 am
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camino
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Can I just say that I read the whole thread and loved the exchange? these debates are great stuff here... thanks guys. Much to learn, smile, and reflect on.

August 14, 2008
9:17 am
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Truth,

I agree that things have seemed a little more combative rather than uplifting of late in some areas, but usually people who are lashing out at the world are in need of support themselves. I used to work with children who were abused, neglected, and mistreated in every way imaginable and I often found that the ones who were the most combative and often times even violent were the ery ones who were in the most need of a hug. Maybe those who are feeling angry right now are searching for their own form of a "hug". Oh please don't get me wrong, this should always be a supportive and safe place for us all, but I guess when I read those "angry" or "aggressive" posts I take them with a grain of salt knowing that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that I don't know what that person is actually facing in their life at the moment. I have a choice; however, if I want to fuel their angry fire or simply be the bigger person and not respond at all. We are all at different places in our personal growth and that is what I think is wonderful about this site. We have the ability to learn from each other and offer others the lessons that we have learned from our own personal experiences.

I really admire you taking the time to point out the change in the dynamic here. I had noticed it myself, but wasn't really sure how to put it into words.

Thank you for making us all more concious of our words.

For guest...

I have been reading a great little book by Melodie Beatte (52 Weeks of Conscious Contact) which is just a collection of daily lessons designed to help you think about yourself in more concious terms. This week's lesson is about the basics. The basics as she defines them are: comfortable living arrangements, nutrition, sleep, taking care of your finances, fun, social interaction, understanding and expressing your emotions, being able to say no to others, and you own impulses. Yesterday's lesson was that when we are not taking care of our basic needs that we become very "out of sorts" and "aggitated". I personally notice a huge difference when I am eating a lot of stuff I shouldn't be or not getting enough sleep. I feel angry and detached. The book suggests taking each of the above and doing one good thing in each category every day. Abraham Maslow also theorized this concept in this theory of the hierarchy of needs and self actualization. I have always felt that it had a great value, but Beatte added many facets that Maslow does not.

I am bad about not getting enough fun or social interaction. I suffer from horrid social anxiety and very poor self esteem. When I am not taking care of my basic needs, I tend to retreat into my own world detaching from the real world. I begin to feel unloved and worthless. Most of all, I am not a nice person to be around. I am combative and even abusive to people who do try and enter my world. I begin to become numb inside and thus retreat even further. It is a very vicious cycle. I don't have any answers yet about how to venture out and find more social interaction or even fun. In fact, I actually have trouble defining what I think of as fun. I am trying to just take small steps-ask a coworker to have lunch, speak to someone new at my weekly Weight Watchers meeting, or volunteer one night a week for a charitable orgainization.

I hope that despite all the conversation here that you will continue to post. It really sounds like you are hurting and can use some support.

Hang in there.

August 14, 2008
12:18 pm
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Thank you so much for that amazingly well-thought-out, beautifully presented, helpful post, Alicenwonderland. I love your measured, non-ranting style. Your insight is so clear, caring & kindly.

Just reading it has cheered me up - sadly comforting to know that I am not alone in being alone!

Your last long paragraph describes me to a tee! The only differences seem to be that I'm not overweight (I drink wine daily & smoke instead of overeating) and I don't have a job at the moment, so I have no colleagues or peer-group at all 🙁

I must look up those books you mention.

Hi, Guest! Do you feel as if you weren't properly 'brought up' - just looked after & kept alive & sent on your way, without any deep & meaningful understanding, discussions of philosophy, ethics, lifestyles, psychology & feelings, etc? Do you feel neglected, and so lack confidence to identify & express your real needs effectively? 'Cos if so - that's me too!

Did you lack experiencing empathy & deep bonding with close family & friends, at an emotional level, during your early years & adolescence? Do you feel emotionally un-understood, lonely, inexperienced & immature? (Sorry, but you do came across as those things.)

I really want to know! I realise these are v intimate, prying questions, so you may not wish to answer them; but since I feel all the above, it might be good to discuss them if there is any overlap.

I long for closeness, encouragement & mental / emotional empathy & intimacy - but fight off any offers out of sheer inexperience, lack of self-confidence & FEAR! (of rejection yet again.) Do you understand what I mean?

I'm v depressed lately, so I can't guarrantee consistent replies. Think I'm becoming more & more socio-phobic. I retreat into reading & study, and daren't risk trying to talk to people because public chat is so often superficial, ego-boosting drivel and I fail on every criterion people judge one on. But I have a soft heart and feel things deeply - am far too sensitive - and I actively but helplessly wish everyone well.

Blessings & love - Gazelle.

August 14, 2008
1:07 pm
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Gazelle,

Good to hear from you. It's been a while since I saw you here-but then again, I haven't been here much due to an overabundance of work.

I am no longer seriously overweight and only 10 lbs away from my ideal weight. Whoo hooo...it has been a VERY long road to get here. The weight was tied to my emotional issues and as I have begun to unravel them, I have been able to understand that food is a real punishment for me. (I have also been seriously anorexic, bulemic, and even a laxitive junkie.) In working toward a more fulfilled me, I have been able to stop punishing myself with food either through deprevation or by overeating. The same can be said of my emotional state. I am a self punisher in many forms.

I say this because the Beatte book really helps to show me that being emotionally healthy is not just my emotions, but also my body and my spirit. I have gotten so much out of it. It is very simple-just little daily readings that are just a few quick paragraphs. Each week has a given topic which is the focus. I would highly recommend it to anyone who just needs a little daily uplifting of the spirit.

I am sorry that you feel so low right now. I have been right were you are. In fact, I suffer from many of the same issues. We must be kindred spirits. To say that I long for companionship and understanding is an understatement. I crave it like an addict craves herion. As a matter of fact, it was the catalyst that began my foray into recovery.

The last year I have really been focusing on why that I do exactly what you shared...push anyone away who offers it either through a cold and uncaring facade or by smothering the life out of every relationship with my own neediness. (which I have recently learned that is also a form of me pushing people away because I know that if you get too needy people will back off and then you can pretend it wasn't your issues, but theirs that caused the breakup). For me, there has been no middle ground.

I'm not fixed by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, my last foray at even trying to date ended in utter disaster-some my issues and some his. Here's a being alone positive...The good thing about being alone is that it has really given me the time and energy to really work on me and my issues without that being compounded by someone else's. I know it don't feel that way at all. I often feel like me being alone is a curse not a blessing, but this is the first time in all of my life that I have really been putting me first and learning to love me. I know it really sounds hokey, but this is where it all begins. Loving ourselves. I'm still not completely there yet, but I am starting to not hate the girl in the mirror anymore.

I know you must feel very empty and isolated right now, but please post when you can. The people here may only be able to conncect to you through the computer, but they are real people who care-so you do have a peer group!

Hang in there and just try to take each day as they are given. I will keep you in my positive thoughts.

((((gazelle)))))

August 14, 2008
7:20 pm
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Thank you! ((((Alicenwonderland))))

A cyber-hug helps [don't know if I could do real ones, it's been so long]. Congratulations on your strength & determination on overcoming the weight / food issues! Wow - I'm really impressed! My drug of choice fluctuates between wine, geeky studying as an escape from loneliness & self-pity, & codependent worrying over others (from a safe distance). Pathetic.

Loneliness is a kind of addiction too ... I've become so used to it that I avoid people, whilst hating myself for it. The odd thing is, I'm not 'shy' and can talk easily to anyone about anything ... but I just can't see the point lately - it all seems so trivial & disappointing, and no-one shares any of my interests.

So I seem to avoid all social contact & withdraw into 'I'm not good enough' depression. How on earth can one love oneSELF? It even sounds wrong! I'm world-class at hopelessly pining for others though.

I shall try to get that Melodie Beatty book, it sounds just the ticket.

Sorry to hijack your thread, TruthBtold. I'll retreat now.

August 14, 2008
10:05 pm
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hi Wiz, no plans as of yet. I'm too tired to go out as usual. I stay sort of satisfied and dissatisfied in my own company so its a confusion. Its depression and tiredness.

thanks Alice. I know all of that stuff already about taking care of our needs etc. I wait every day to go to bed.

Gazelle, lets see:

>> Do you feel as if you weren't properly 'brought up' - just looked after & kept alive & sent on your way, without any deep & meaningful understanding, discussions of philosophy, ethics, lifestyles, psychology & feelings, etc?

Ofcourse thats me. I wasnt even looked after. Its funny now that my parents are old and they cant boss me around. I show them the slightest warning of me getting pissed off and they back off, which is good. My father never talked to me. All my mother had to say to me was negative stuff and scoldings and harsh words. Nice combination. Stupid idiots really. Couldnt they see how messed up they are in the head and how unhealthy? How could I see it for myself and why could they not? They were dumb, thats it, Oh well.

>> Did you lack experiencing empathy & deep bonding with close family & friends, at an emotional level, during your early years & adolescence?

Yes but dont ask these things. Its not going to go anywhere. I'm fine though, thanks for asking. You know I was thinking today I'd start some "meetup.com" group in my own city so people can hang out. There's none here. Now... that would give me something to do as well as meet people ofcourse. But what I wanna do is dine out and have tasty food! I'm going for dinner.

August 15, 2008
7:26 am
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(Tbt),

I both like & agree with what you've posted here. A good perspective.
It already seems to have opened up some previously closed doors to the possibilty of some positive healing.
It's no secret that more often than not - negativity will only beget negativity. And why waste precious time with that?

Crg

August 15, 2008
9:08 am
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Gazelle,

You are breaking my heart because I feel like you are speaking with my voice. You seem to have some great insights into your problems. I think that was where the turn upward began for me was acknowledging what my issues really were-so kudos.

Loving yourself is the hardest thing you will ever do. For some, it comes as easy as breathing. I have a baby sister who just loves everything about herself and not in a conceited or negative way. She simply thinks she is amazing (and she is). I always admired this quality in her.

For me, the beginning started with acceptance. Acceptance of my past, acceptance of my strengths and weaknesses (I think the strenghts were harder thatn the weaknesses.), and acceptance of others "as they are" not how I would like them to be. Then came the grieving process. I allowed myself to grieve for the things that were lacking from my childhood/adolescence/ and adulthood. After grief, then I had to begin the forgiveness process not only for those who have caused me pain, but for myself. I am still not completely through all of the steps. In fact it varies with different situations and people within my life. It is only now that I am finally able to accept the past that I can look at myself objectively at all. Don't get me wrong, I have a long way to go to say I love who I am, but I am starting to hate me less. It is a slow process. Sometimes the steps are so small that I seem to be standing still, but when I look back at where I started I can see the distance I have travelled. If I can do this, so can you. I was so far gone when I began recovery that I thought the only way out was death.

We often consume ourselves with others because we don't want to deal with ourselves or just can't. I am the world's worst. I couldn't deal with myself. I didn't even know how or where to begin. All I knew was I was miserable and I didn't want to be miserable any more. I always felt it was selfish to even acknowledge that I have needs, let alone wants. This was reinforced within my family in a whole host of ways. I couldn't even identify my needs or my wants. Needs to me meant food, water, and shelter. Those I had so I thought I was taking care of all of my needs. The truth is that I wasn't taking care of any of them but these three.

If you want to talk more, just post. I am NO expert by any measure and still stuggling with all this myself, but I am happy to talk more about this if you need to.

August 15, 2008
11:39 am
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truthBtold
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As I read everyone's comments, I can't help but feel very moved myself.

The honesty, caring, sharing and sincere kindness on these eventual personal subject matters which have evolved has brought me to tears because I can relate to many of these same, deep issues myself - just couldn't quite put my finger on it - and acknowledge it myself until now.

In reflecting back on the wonderfully positive momentum that this thread has taken - I look back now and have to wonder why - in the beginning - I mis-took Ma Strong's comment to guest_guest to possibly be condescending - when in fact - it was percieved as just being nice.

So, I have to ask myself - what's up with me on that one?

I obviously read into condencension when clearly, condencension was not present....and I just 'created' something on my own.

What does that say about me?

My apologies to MaStrong and to guest_guest for putting my nose in a place that it clearly doesn't belong.

whew.

There is so much good stuff written here and to tell you the truth, I can't absorb it all right now because it is really touching some sensitive nerves of my own.

Just know that this is a thread which I will revisit often because there is much to be learned and digested and when the time feels right, I too will risk the vulnerability to express some deep feelings of my own as others have had the awesome courage to do already.

August 15, 2008
12:52 pm
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>> What does that say about me?

What does that say about you? We need a big pillow fight, thats what we need!

Ohh, dont worry about saying anything TBT. You're ok as you are. Oh if there was anyone who should feel bad about something, its me, but its ok, I just move on too.

But this, which you pointed out for me, which I realized its very true:

>> >> some kind of deeper dynamics from our past when our own personal viewpoints and FEELINGS were NEVER acknowledged and/or appreciated and validated as a child

So, the question is, where do we from there? We can talk about loving ourselves and the "inner child" blah-blah'ing, but ... whats the practical thing that would help a person get over all that? I dont know. Maybe I'm over it already, I really dont know.

See thats also something counselors and books can never answer. I think it just involves giving a damn and just doing what you want to do. mmm.. interested. I'm brain dead and numb today, which is not unlike most other days.

August 15, 2008
12:53 pm
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typo: interestING

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