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Science Without Bounds - the new religion?
May 30, 2006
10:42 pm
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Bevdee.

Wow! I can relate to most if not all that you have written. It is very honest, frank and on the mark.

Being a male, I probably had different experiences. But apart from gender differences I pretty well travelled the same road.

Unlike most young guys I never masturbated. I lived in raw fear of God watching me. Through nocturnal emissions, my bed sheets paid the price - much to my embarassment.

If an image of a vagina flashed across my mind(I had 3 sisters so I knew what they looked like) and that image persisted for any length of time, I was in agony until Saturday arvo came along and i was able to confess my 'impure' thoughts.

Eventually as a young lad of 15 I was seduced by an older woman of 23 from where I worked. I 'came' just before I penetrated her. I lived in mortal shame for this reason and because of the mortal sin that I committed. But I LIKED what had happened - it felt good!!! Women's vaginas thereafter held a lurid fascination for me - imprinting I suppose. But I was doomed to the everlasting fires of hell if I kept 'doing it'. Guilt - confession, more guilt - more confession - on and on. Sexual urges got stronger not weaker - nothing worked. After many agonizing internal conflicts, I eventually said; "F..k you God. Why did you make me like this if you didn't want me to 'do it'!!"

Later after getting into the trough of life's pleasures to the hilt, I found it unsatisfying and downright disastrous. At 30 I turned back to God and became a holly roller - a bible bashing tub thumper. This lasted for about 3 years and I started to see how flawed Christian dogma really was.

The God that I was force fed, was a stern, strict, very conditionally loving, all seeing, all knowing, all judgmental, all powerful Father. This God had emotions, He could easily be offended, vindictive and wrathful. He was totally separate from me and He demanded worship and adoration OR ELSE. Yet despite how hard I pedalled my bike I always knew that something was wrong. I would go to Mass, feel wonderful during the ceremonies and then come home feeling cheated and that somehow this was just not right.

I joined a Raj Yoga sect and that freed me from the bondage of the Christian God and taught me how to meditate.

Even in Raj Yoga, their God, though different, was still represented to me as a Person none the less - as a Supreme Soul as distinct and separate from my 'soul'. Perhaps He didn't have testicles, arms, legs etc, but he was a male never the less. He was a Bindu, a pinpoint of light, OM in capitalization, but still called Baba (Father).

I suspect that we both had a concept of a God who is a Supreme MALE PERSON with a capital P.

D'Adamo makes a valient attempt to put all the waffle, superstition, and downright demonic fears of human projection onto a scientific footing. Sense can then be separated from the non-sense, and the charlatans exposed and shown the road.

D'Adamo tries to investigate the God of the mystics who is NOT a Person at all; a God who is not separate but who is at the very Root of our being; a God who is the Ultimate Essence out of which ALL is manifested including the quantum field of the Unified Field Theorists, the electrons, neutrons, protons, quarks, mesons, photons, etc. This is not Panthiesm - though that is the impression easily gained by a person of lesser intelligence.

This book is very thought provoking and worth reading IMHO.

May 30, 2006
10:54 pm
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seekerw

On the 30-May-06 you said:

"I'm very flattered and humbled, nonetheless, that you deigned to speak to a poor wretched lowlife like me. I live just to hear words of praise or admonition from you. Without you I am nothing, oh great and mighty Tez! "

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

I now have further corroborating evidence pointing to why I was wise to ignore your question in the first place. I knew that you couldn't handle the truth. Why did I doubt my better judgment and give you an honest reply??? Will I never learn??

If you are threatened by this thread, it pushes your buttons, and you can't handle different points of view other than your own then you might be well advised to bypass it and go back to your 'safe' bible threads.

May 30, 2006
11:30 pm
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Tez,

What's the matter??? Can poor little Tezzie not handle sarcasm? Does it hurt your feelings too much? How insensitive of me!

I'll do a favor just for you, and show you how sensitive and considerate I can be. I'll engage you with a higher form of wit, one that you can handle. I'm so thoughtful.

Stay tuned for more.

May 31, 2006
12:13 am
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Hey,
I just got home from a Bible study. There was a man there, a contractor, tough guy, who had accepted JC into his life...wow, you should have seen him. I have a bother in law who is a financial genious, used to play for the Vikings...6'7"...good grief does this man love God and can he pray...from his heart, it was so awesome...!!!!! WOW!!

The subject of the study was that love is a character not a feeling, and we talked about God is the author, perfector and finisher of our faith...and it was led my a minister friend of my family who calims he only has the faith he does because of all of the trials he has gone through. We talked about the verse ...he came so that we would have life and have it more abundantly. And he came to teach us to love others....

Hey guess what...watched a dvd yesterday about the the physics and science involved in the creation of the universe...absolutely incredible...Dr. Chuck Missler if anyone is interested. But need to watch it one more time, to write some facts down about the lineage in the Bible and how those names beginnning with Adam....in Greek spell out a sentence...God is alive in his word....and you can't state to a beleiver any different...it is wasting your breath,,,
you guys,....you guys are missin' out!!!! who0o0o0o0o0o0!!!!

Screw (xcuseme) RELIGION....it 'ain't' about REIGION!!!

May 31, 2006
12:15 am
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See, I am so excited, I can't even type!

May 31, 2006
12:23 am
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Tez,

I've changed my mind about the wit thing. If you don't want to talk, fine. I wish you peace. I'm going to go find some myself.

Seeker

May 31, 2006
12:30 am
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Tez, since this thread has your attention and it would really be a waste of time to begin another thread about what i am about to ask, and since you live in Australia, you have to know the answer to this.

On Sunday I learned something new....that the water in the toilets in Australia run clockwise because it is below the equator. The water in the toliets in the states run counter-clockwise.....is this true?

May 31, 2006
12:32 am
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This is what we call in the states...an "ice breaker"...

May 31, 2006
12:41 am
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whats that noise??????......guppy just fell out of her chair laughing.....u guys kill me.......lol!!!!!!!
Whohoohooohoooohoooooo.........

May 31, 2006
12:44 am
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Tez you are being rude. You don't want anyone on this thread if it diagrees with you and your views...where is the sense in that? You are only able to respond to those who think the same way. You are only kind to those who agree with you...where is the truth in that?

May 31, 2006
12:47 am
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guppy it isn't funny...aac person or not...those here need to use some thought in talking to posters.

May 31, 2006
12:52 am
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i was laughing about the icebreaker omw. caught me off guard.........sorry, didn't mean to interfere.....

May 31, 2006
1:18 am
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Sure as shootin' got it backwards....without going into a huge explanaiton of Toilet Swirling 101 (a separate thread if anyone is interested)...Aussie goes counter clockwise and USA, USA, USA! goes clockwise.

peace ma' brother.

May 31, 2006
1:22 am
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thanks to guppy....thank you guppy!! i never would have figured this out way to late!

May 31, 2006
1:28 am
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that's ok. i made a "A" in toilet swirling.........like to share my knowlege......i just knew it would come in handy one day.

May 31, 2006
1:36 am
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how come when people get ugly they start bringing in other people's names to add weight to their own side?..........reminds me of the bullies in the playground......tez....

May 31, 2006
11:04 am
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Hey Tez,

I have had alot of practice at not responding from a cousin of mine. Since we were in our 20s, she has never missed an opportunity to insult me, at family reunions, birthday parties.

It is always in a very public forum.

I could never figure out why she did this until my sister pointed out she was jealous. I had a hard time accepting that, because I think she is much prettier than I am, with her long blonde hair, and big blue eyes. Even in her 40s, she still has this great figure. Size 6. But I have a career, and she always got some guy to pay her bills. She has started school a couple of times, but quits after a short while.

She doesn't want to do the studying. She just wants to reap the rewards without doing the work.

When she does this insulting, I just look at her, knowing she wants me to blow up, and come off bad in front of my daddy and the rest of our family. I won't do it. So I smile at her. I guess she thinks that once the slight or put-down is spoken, it becomes true. As if all our aunts, uncles and cousins will believe her. She also always jumps in conversations I am having with folks, to inject herself into the conversation. I guess she can't stand for anyone else to get any attention.

I think that because she is so very unhappy, she needs someone to spill the bile all over, because she knows I can rise above it, and won't argue back with her. It is safe.

Anyway, it still goes on, she still tries to put me down, to make her feel better about herself. I guess people do that......... sometimes.

Shayla

May 31, 2006
11:24 am
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Tez,

First of all, I would like to thank you for saying I am a serious thinker. No one has ever said that to me.

I like the way you write, and I enjoy reading your response to posts, You are very direct, concise, and do not get distracted.

Like you said, it is hard to find the time, but I am plugging away. I am reading some at the library computer. School is out, there are lots of kids here so it's not as easy to get a free computer. But, it is a nice quiet place to wait. I am going to find a way to print this.

From the book - "If medical authorities merely accepted traditional beliefs, medicine would stagnate" We would still be letting blood to cure diseases! Applying leaches.

>I wish I knew why, when once people became educated, could read that bible, and question its inconsistencies, they accepted the lame explanations? Was easier to just go along with it? To avoid public condemnation? They burned witches. In medieval Europe, they killed "heretics". Religious fanatics, like those Spanish freaks, Ferdinand and Isabella, and their Inquisition. I'm a rebel, but I think I would probably have kept my mouth shut, too!

Since I have stopped expecting any answers from that bible, and started observing more than reacting, I have noticed how upset those who advocate it become when confronted with anything contrary to what they have been told to believe. Anything reasonable, rational.

From book - "Science routinely separates truth from falsehood, Religion doesn't."
We are seeing this more and more, aren't we? And people are finally stepping up now, to discuss religion rationally, not superstitiously.

TEZ , you said
"Science is and has been a less than perfect safeguard against 'ratbags' throughout history. Perhaps religion based terrorism wouldn't be happening now were science have been more successful in making inroads in explaining what seemed to be supernatural events in the past."
I think this has to do with education levels. First of all, that bible was not available to the public, and when it was at first, it was written in Latin. That is why King James had it translated into English, so the common man could read it. But think when that was, 1600 something. There were only a select, wealthy, few who were given an education. Later, in Colonial America, the same happened, and sometimes, in households, the only book in a home was that bible.

And, too, I think the term science is a fearful one to the bible literalists. It has been preached, hasn't it? So? Money and superstition?

OH! Religion based terrorism. On what level?
International? Communities? Personal? OH!! I will have to think on this one today.

Shayla

May 31, 2006
5:27 pm
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hi Tez, interesting. I didnt know sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Ahhhh.. remember your Dr Nathan comment to me.. heheeee. That was sarcasm eh?

I did not know. I had a hint that when I used to do it, it wasnt the best positive thing to do but this guy explains it now:

---------------
New research shows the highest functions of the brain handle the lowest form of wit - sarcasm.

It's an ugly word even in ancient Greek.

People from the UK for example have a very subtle sarcasm.
Others including Americans not quite as subtle.
Depends on the intent of the speaker but if sarcasm is meant to intentionally hurt someone then it truly is the lowest form of wit.

In the late 1800's Oscar Wilde used the phrase
" Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit"

---------------

Interesting, huh.. so what do you think, why is it the lowest form of wit? How come no one here asked this question, hmm.

I hope the clinging and clanging from others isnt bothering you. Its normal you know, in religious debate, heh.

May 31, 2006
7:53 pm
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"Interesting, huh.. so what do you think, why is it the lowest form of wit? How come no one here asked this question, hmm."

I guess it is because no one considers it a burning issue. That is my take on it.

May 31, 2006
8:02 pm
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ok.. so why is it the lowest form of wit? The little copy paste I did from the web, shows what you think too?

May 31, 2006
9:06 pm
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bevdee

On the 31-May-06 you said:

"I wish I knew why, when once people became educated, could read that bible, and question its inconsistencies, they accepted the lame explanations? Was easier to just go along with it? To avoid public condemnation? They burned witches. In medieval Europe, they killed "heretics". Religious fanatics, like those Spanish freaks, Ferdinand and Isabella, and their Inquisition. I'm a rebel, but I think I would probably have kept my mouth shut, too!"

I've pondered the same question many times. I think that the reasons are many and varied. I suspect that one major reason is that many people don't have a high level of confidence in their own ability to think for themselves. It takes time, effort and a lot of footwork to put together the 'jigsaw' of one's deeper 'picture' of life. People prefer, I suspect, to rely on pat answers given by religious 'authority figures' and their scriptures rather than do the hard yards in thinking things through for themselves.

You might well be a 'rebel' but if that rebellion is because you object to being treated like a mushroom; that is, being kept in the dark and fed shit, then I say good for you in being a rebel.

D'Adamo's book is about trying to shine some light on some of the existential dilemmas that confront us on this earthly plane by using the 'torch' of science.

In another post you also said:

"Anyway, it still goes on, she still tries to put me down, to make her feel better about herself. I guess people do that......... sometimes."

They sure do. It is easier to elevate a flagging self image by attacking and putting someone down than by raising oneself up on one's own merits - especially when insulting one perceives the insulted one as being a threat in some way.

Patience under insult is a powerful technique for advancing one's own insights into what really is.
D'Adamo addresses this point in his book to some extent also.

D'Adamo implies that the loss of the 'self' is an essential component in attaining what he calls 'gnosis'. He creates the wonderful analogy of the movie screen.

We all know that light is projected upon the screen in moving patterns. Yet when we become absorbed in the drama of the movie our emotions
often erupt as though it was 'real'. Yet we 'know' (gnosis) that the movie is only a movie. In 'real' life we are not really what we think we are. The illusion of the 'self' playing a part in the drama of life is very strong and seductive. To be able to see the Ultimate Essence being projected upon the Screen of Life in the parts that we play out requires a special kind of 'knowing'. That way of knowing and seeing the basis for the interplay of 'patterns' of energy underlying matter requires the seeing through the illusions of 'selfhood'.

Patience under insult can be used by turning within and asking of the 'self' deep questions like:

Who and where is this 'self' who is being insulted to be found?

How is this 'self' actually being threatened?

Deconstructing this illusion of 'selfhood' seems to be a prerequisite for having mystical experiences of the All, the Essence, the Ultimate Reality that is not a 'compound' of something else; that is, not experiencing the analogous illusion that is the Movie but the Projector Itself.

If you can get a hold of the paper written by Prof. John Wren Lewis called "The Dazzling Dark" it makes very interesting and fascinating reading indeed. Click this
link for the article.

May 31, 2006
9:16 pm
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on my way
31-May-06

"Tez you are being rude... "

I'm a berry rude fella. I can't help it- but I just luv da way yah put dat. 🙂

May 31, 2006
9:21 pm
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31-May-06

"ok.. so why is it the lowest form of wit? The little copy paste I did from the web, shows what you think too?"

Yep! Pretty well on track in my view.

May 31, 2006
10:45 pm
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ahh.. lowest form of wit, handled by the highest brain function. interesting....

"if sarcasm is meant to intentionally hurt someone then it truly is the lowest form of wit."

hmmmmmmmmmm.

So that means we shouldnt do sarcasm unless we wanna hurt the person! heh. Hmm.

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