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Science Without Bounds - the new religion?
August 25, 2006
7:07 pm
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Bevdee, thanks for your highly informative post.

In it you said:

"Also, I can tell you 2 distinct times of the month that I am in a bad way. During ovulation, and the day after my last show of menstrual flow. I am randy as a billygoat at these times. Without fail. I believe that during ovulation, that is purely physiological. This is basically what we are born to do - reproduce."

I would never deny that our sexual drives are hormone based. Nor would I deny that there is an inherent desire to reproduce our genes. The animal kingdom amply demonstrate that this is true. Male animals will try to kill the offspring of their competitors to ensure the survival of their own genes. What I do maintain is that with whom we are obsessively driven to have sex, is very much a 'template' driven function.

In my youth visiting King's Cross Sydney, the sexual vice pit, I will never forget seeing slim beautiful prostitutes being bypassed by many guys in favor of big fat grossly overweight prostitutes. It took all kinds of women to meet the sexual preferences of all the guys. It was a case of horses for courses. 🙂 While we do have sex symbols such as Mel Gibson, etc, I think that sexual attractiveness is a very subjective thing. I believe that it is the 'template' that largely governs our preferences in this regard. As I see it, the 'template' is in the multi-faceted 'eye' of the beholder.

There was a very attractive lady at the dance last night who over the past couple of years has made no secret of the fact that fancies me. Objectively speaking, she is 1000% more attractive than Ms. Sneaky who was also there. Yet I am powerfully attracted to Ms. Sneaky not the other lady. I'm told that my present partner is far more attractive than Ms Sneaky. Yet ...

Of course I also recognise that well parented adults are far less likely to have obsessive relationships than those of us who have been given very conditional or no love in childhood.

Incidentally, at last night's dance, Ms. Sneaky was on her best behavior. She's having troubles in her present relationship as a result of her game playing. So she is in damage control at the moment.

And you said:

"I have thrown away the "stupid" stuff, and washed all the "good stuff". I feel good about it. ... ..."

Good for you girl. It is amazing how much of a thrill it is to get something for nothing. People are like vultures when it comes to kerbside goodies. 🙂 I have to fight the urge to stop and sticky beak myself. But I never forget the Kung Fu TV episode of the stone owning the Shaolin monk. So I keep driving.

Have you seen the DVD 'The Elegant Universe'? The quantum physicists wha are also advocates of string theory are in an interesting area that is arguably beyond the domain of science and more in the domain of philosophy.

Because of the effect that the observer has on the observed at a quantum level, I think that it is only a matter of time before the link between consciousness and matter will be established by science. Then, IMHO, science will be intruding even more drastically into the religious domain than it has in the past.

As science debunks more and more of the superstitious nature of religious beliefs, I see that religion, as we know it, will eventually disappear.

Is the bf back yet?

Must away.

August 25, 2006
8:43 pm
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"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. - Albert Einstein"

August 25, 2006
10:37 pm
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Tez

Dont take E's word's blindly. Not everything he said or did was right. He had 3 wives and 10 sexual mistresses. Here's what other people say about this quote on the net. REad the last quote specially.

People are saying basically: Hinduism, Taoism and Sufi Islam also fulfil this criteria.

Thikn with an open mind. Read and evaluate stuff that contradicts you. Thats the only way you'll grow.

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I tend to agree, although I think Taoism is more suitable. Better yet no religion at all. Religion used to encompass such diverse fields as medicine, science, judicial law, and cosmology. Now that these are specialized studies, what is left for religion to do?

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I feel that Einstein is in error to single out Buddhism at this point, as Hinduism is more than capable of absorbing the same position, as is Sufi Islam, but we will return to this point at a more convenient juncture. One can be clear at this point that Einstein has serious concerns about the monotheistic religions (principally Judaism, Christianity and Islam).

Oh and by the way, comparing buddhism to judo-christo-muslim monotheism is comparing apples to oranges.

Buddhism is more similar to a philosophical system based on non-materialistic, non-(western)-scientific axioms. Try to compare to those axioms of philosophy of mathematics that are hard to grasp in commosense language.

-----------------------------------------

Thank you for your response, as I find your selection of topics, and viewpoint, fascinating. I would like to continue...

Chris said, "I feel that Einstein is in error to single out Buddhism at this point, as Hinduism is more than capable of absorbing the same position, as is Sufi Islam, but we will return to this point at a more convenient juncture."

One of the reasons Einstein singled out Buddhism specifically, I imagine, is that Siddhartha took Hinduism and stripped it of its power for personal gods and social orders. Salvation from the Hindu birth/death cycle, Enlightenment, the cessation of suffering, is within the immediate power of the individual. In a manner of speaking, Siddhartha, to Einstein, was a prophet that successfully stripped a religion down to a single goal devoid of divine dynamics.

Einstein said: "If one purges the Judaism of the Prophets and Christianity as Jesus taught it of all subsequent additions, especially those of the priests, one is left with a teaching which is capable of curing all the social ills of humanity."

Siddhartha, himself, said that was the nature of his teaching, "suffering and the end of suffering."

Interestingly, though, there are aspects of Hinduism, in its many facets, that completely parallel and are highly similar to Buddhism in practice, one example (of many) is in the belief structure of Jnana and Raja Yoga sutras. Buddhism borrows heavily from Hinduism as its basis and is described in Hindu terms, but in order to effectively strip away Hindu cosmogony, Siddhartha teaches on the nature of the unexplainables, ie. those questions in which one is unable to effectively spiritually profit from the answers. This belief structure boundary effectively allows the division of science and religion that Einstein seems to be espousing.

Further, there are other value structures that may meet Einstein's (and Spinoza's) criteria of ethic systems, such as those written by Laozi (Tao Te Ching) and K'ung-fu-tzu (Analects of Confucius), which, oddly enough, arrived around the same time as Siddhartha. Why did Einstein choose Buddhism? Perhaps because of its singular goal devoid of divine dynamics, clearly established boundary between cosmogony and moral cures, as well as its ability to be popular despite a clear rejection of the strongly established religious structure that gave rise to it.

Just some thoughts...

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No...no. Taoism much more aptly fits that description. Here, lemme break it down.

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion."
Taoist.

"It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology."
Not Buddhism. That religion has developed specific gods, all facets of Brahman. It has dogmas, it has theology, it is as much locked into being a "Religion" as Christianity.

"Covering both natural and spiritual,"
Taoism, again.

"it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things,"
Taoism. Not Buddhism -- Buddhism is based on transcending all things, rather than experiencing them all.

"natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity."
Natural, spiritual, united with Tao. Yup, here's Taoism.

"Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
Whoa. Slow down, Einstein. Perhaps you might want to pick up some Vedas before saying that load of tripe again...

I can understand that his description could be interpreted as many different things, with slight word twists and a careful eye, and I'm sure that an avid Buddhist (which I'm not) could aptly match the religion of Buddhism to fit Einstein's description ... but it's still Taoism that seems to be the perfect match, to me.

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August 26, 2006
11:52 am
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Tez,

Always good to hear from you

"As I see it, the 'template' is in the multi-faceted 'eye' of the beholder." Oh I agree. I am attracted to eyes. Always eyes first. Hands second. My men are not typical sex symbols. And - "What I do maintain is that with whom we are obsessively driven to have sex, is very much a 'template' driven function." Yes, I agree. I was just trying to figure out what fired off which. The pituitary can function without the amygdala.

There is something I will confide in you. A few weeks ago, when we were talking about your dancing, and the dancing minds, you were telling me you exercised sheer will power not to make eye contact with Ms Sneaky, I got so blazingly angry, I had to back away and figure out why. It has taken me some time.

First of all, I see some of Sneaky in myself. I am a flirt. I flirt because I am insecure. There is a tiny feeling of satisfaction and tiny power in seeing affirmation in a man's eyes.

I got angry because I told myself you were not being honest with yourself. PLEASE DON'T RESPOND to this last because - It had nothing to do with you, it was all about me. All of this projected from ME > Because of the way I feel about the Casino man. And the fact HE will not admit to me how much he wants me. Not verbally, only physically. I projected it onto you, before I realised what was happening!! This was a couple of days before I "accidentally" ran into him at the casino.

In happening on him at the casino, I was not testing my resolve (as I claimed), I was testing HIS. I was lying to myself, and I really hate to be lied to!! (I know how jacked up that sounds, but that is how it is going for me) I think this is part of the reason I felt like shit afterward - because I was not honest with myself.

I still think I need to see that lust in his eyes. I still want him to call me, so I can NOT answer or return his calls. I discovered that if I can't have his pigf**kin, I got some momentary satisfaction from seeing it in his eyes. Ms Sneaky wants that too and I am sure you are REALLY pissing her off, man. But, if I am going to be honest, there is more. I want the physical, but I want his mind, too. (template? amygdala?) It is because I feel this way that I know why your Sneaky woman is doing what she is doing.

This was quite a discovery for me, the way I rerouted my anger without an acknowledgment of the true reason.

Here you say - "As science debunks more and more of the superstitious nature of religious beliefs, I see that religion, as we know it, will eventually disappear." - I think it is fading away, and has been for decades. I say this for several reasons. I believe it is being debunked by many types of discoveries and the accessibility regular folks have to the results of these discoveries ( media, internet, better public education) Of course I have to say this - the strides women have made in the last century play a big part in it, too. Women's Rights and the bible just dont mesh.

There are too many discrepant red flags (in the religious claims for the godman) to overlook.

I am going to tell you another little (?) story. Little - Ha! When I was 7 years old, I wrote a letter to Santa Claus, and addressed it to the North Pole. Santa answered my letter, and the return address was the North pole!! He AND Mrs. Claus signed it!! I was the last holdout in my elementary class to believe in the Clauses. But I knew, because I had it in writing!! I was 10 when my mom told me the Saturday night before Easter, that she wanted me to help her hide the eggs the next moring, before my sissy woke up. I asked her if the Easter Bunny was sick??!! She told me there was no Easter Bunny. I put it together pretty quickly and horrified, I asked what about Santa Claus!! She shook her head no. I said, " But I Have A Letter!!!" (proof) She said, " Your daddy and I were more surprised than you were to see that letter. The post office must have sent it, baby."

The next year she had to tell me about menstruation, sex, and where babies come from. I asked her why I should believe her. That part was true, but when I was 13, I had to take confirmation classes for the Episcopal church my mother joined. I had already studied alot of English history, because the kings and queens and their lives fascinate me more than any soap opera. I had read extensively about the Tudors.I think that Elizabeth I was a pretty cool queen, and the way she handled the question of worship was ultimate diplomacy - worship as you wish!

But - When the priest explained the history of the Anglican Church, he never mentioned the fact that although Protestantism was an emerging christian denomination throughout Europe, England's final severance with Rome came because Anne Boleyn became pregnant after a 12 year affair with Henry VIII. He needed to make his heir legitimate, and Rome would not recognise it. Thus, the Anglican Church was born. So the King could marry his mistress. I mentioned this, and he told me we would talk about it later. He later asked me if I would ask him any questions such as that one privately, outside the presence of the other students. He just didn't want me to rock the little world he was trying to create in that classroom.

So the moral to my stories are - we are not always told the truth, and just because it is in writing, or a preacher tells it does not mean it is true. People are seeing this about that bible.

Of my personal observations, I see church attendance way down. Most of the people I know sleep in on Sunday. I see alot of folks give lip service to god and church, but rarely make it to a service. I believe this is because of peer pressure. They would rather not think about it, OR people keep their opinions to themselves, because it is wearisome to be shouted down by the defenders of christianity. I have seen this here on the boards. I have had people, in my physical life - say to me - it is not worth arguing about-

My nice man is going to come in tonight. He goes as far as 2 states away now to get this hay. He drives anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to obtain it, and then drives it back down here, back and forth non-stop. It has been a long couple of weeks, and he has not seen my new place!

Talk to you later, Tez

Bevdee

August 26, 2006
7:28 pm
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Hi BevDee.

What a great post!

I think that you nailed Ms. Sneaky's colors to the mast! Especially when you said:

"I still think I need to see that lust in his eyes. I still want him to call me, so I can NOT answer or return his calls."

I know that Ms. Sneaky wants me to fire up over her and go chasing her so she can 'PUBLIC'ly humiliate me in pay back for breaking it off with her so publicly on the afternoon of the night of a Ball. She attended that Ball partnerless and cried on the shoulders of every male that would listen, thinking he was on a promise. If she got her public 'pay back' then she would be happy for a few months. After that she would come on to me big time, wanting me to buy out her present partner's half of her luxury home.

What infuriates me is that she has not the slightest consideration for either my partner's or my happiness. She is focussed upon her sick needs for adoration from men in general and me in particular, first, second and third. She has, of a year ago, gotten everything that she always wanted; a luxurious white picket fenced house, a decent man in her life who is living with her and jointly owns the home and she still wants MORE at my expense!!! She is using this poor guy, who is smitten with her, mercilessly!! In trying to buy Ms. sneaky's happiness, the poor bastard is trying to get me to talk to Ms. Sneaky, not realizing the horrific ramifications for all if I did! Both he and I would probably end up in a public punch up with Ms. Sneaky glorifying in having two men publicly fighting over her. It will never happen!

I refuse to look into Ms. Sneaky's eyes because I know only too well that this would fire up my amygdala which in turn would do the rest in disrupting my present stable happy relationship. Thus the way would be then all too clear for Ms. Sneaky to have her way. Not even the first latch of the many latches on the door to my vulnerably inner child will be unlocked to Ms. Sneaky for any reason. Perhaps if she called me to her death bed, I might relent a little. But I would want reassurance from a medical specialist that she was definitely going to die and that her recovery was impossible.

In regard to religion, I agree with you. I think that as we become more enlightened as to how the world works and consciousness interacts, I think that we will discover that consciousness at all levels is driving it all. I am not implying that we humans are at the top of the consciousness chain by any means. String theorists if right, will, I believe, open the door to what governs the string patterns that underpins all forms in this world. Perhaps that governance will turn out to be consciousness itself. Either way, I think that the stories contained in the bible will have to go the way of your Easter Bunny stories.

Why I think Albert Einstien preferred Buddhism is that Buddhism heavily favors the scientific approach to attaining knowledge about how things are. I have heard Buddhist monks say that they welcome all the advances science can make with open arms. Buddhism is dedicated to finding the truth in whatever way it comes. I was astounded to read what the Buddhist master, Thich Nat Hanh wrote about Buddhist writings. He said that not all is to be taken to be the Buddha's teachings. He said that much has been adulterated over the years. His advice, like that of the Buddha, is to find out by one's own direct experience what is correct and what isn't. In speaking about sentient beings in the Diamond Sutra the Buddha said:

" ... Thus, he must not cling to laws or non laws, and this is why I have often said to you monks that even my teachings should be understood to be like a raft; if even the Dharma must be let go of, then how much more must everything else be let go of?"

I will not become a Buddhist because I dislike the social pressures to conform that I feel that humans impose in religious groups of all kinds. But I'm impressed by the Buddha himself. What founder of any other other religion tells you that you must eventually abandon their scriptures to completely break free of ignorance and delusion. Somewhere else the Buddha said that anything expressed in words is ultimately false. Words are symbols based upon the perception of our senses of the objects that we see hear, feel, smell in the so called materialistic world.

In a documentary about String Theory, called the Elegant Universe, the brilliant graphics shrunk the viewer down to the size of strings showing the very non-material, 'empty' nature of matter. All words and even the world's best animated graphics ultimately failed to describe the 11 dimensions that are reportedly necessary to validate string theory!! No wonder we have to let go of all of our previous conditioning, if our minds are to know absolute reality at this quantum level!

By now your nice man would have come home with the feed for his horses? He sounds like a great guy. If I were in your shoes, I would forget about Casino man completely - just as I would never see Ms. Sneaky again if I could avoid her and still dance where I do. If it gets too bad, I will in the end stop dancing altogether. That will put a strain on my present relationship. But I'm sure that it would survive.

Catch ya later.

August 27, 2006
4:27 pm
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Tez,

Thanks for responding!!

"In regard to religion, I agree with you. I think that as we become more enlightened as to how the world works and consciousness interacts, I think that we will discover that consciousness at all levels is driving it all."

I remember the skepticism the churches had for the field of psychology. Do you? I believe it was frightening to the "religious" leaders. I remember hearing something to the effect of " don't open your minds to dark influences" or some tripe like that. Implying satan? Then they came out with "christian counseling"

And as for the Easter Bunny? As a little girl, I could never figure out how the eggs figured into the ascension of a christ. In my 20s, I thought maybe it was because eggs are a symbol of birth, so they extrapolated this to the "return from the dead" of christ. I learned years later that the easter egg is thought to be a symbol of the tomb in which christ emerged. B.C. - in ancient cultures, the egg was a symbol of the universe - creation, new life, fertility. Christianity changed that to the rebirth of man. But why HIDE the eggs??

I learned a couple of years ago about Mithras, a Persian god popular at the time of christianity's genesis. According to that legend, Mithras was born on Dec 25. From what I have read, this and many other facets of the Mithras legend were attributed to Christ's myth, presumably? to gain converts to the new religion. Mithras' legend has parallels with other, older religions.

Hey I think I can download this Elegant Universe here at the library. I am going to try it. It is saying it is 3 hours. 3) 1 hour parts. This will take at least 3 days, then. I have so much to do at home, I would never sit still long enough to watch it on TV or DVD.

Yes, I have seen the niceman. Today I was struck again by how sweet he is. After almost a year of seeing each other, he still asks if he can see me. He is not hesitant, but so considerate. I want to start talking to him about me, but I can't imagine telling him about my obsession with the casinoman. I just can't. It doesn't seem right. I'm still scared to share. I mean, what if he were to ask me if I would sleep with Kenny again? I MIGHT!! I can't honestly say I wouldn't. I think about it alot. (I did make it through the last 2 Fridays not going to the casino, but I sure thought about it, come 5 o'clock) I don't know how I would feel if he told me there was some lady he obsessed about. I guess I might understand it better than I would have a few years ago. Don't think I would like it, though.

Tez, I am so impressed with you! Your objectivity at my "confiding". I was hesitant to be honest about that because in saying I directed my anger at you, I was afraid you would misunderstand and become defensive. You DIDN'T!! You understood what I was saying. You are great.

About that Sneakywoman!! "She is focussed upon her sick needs for adoration from men in general and me in particular, first, second and third. " You left HER, is this correct? If you left her, she feels rejected. Hell hath no fury.... I know this because of my relationship with the casinoman. He held me at arm's length, until he wanted great sex. I felt rejected by him. I felt he rejected everything about me except my body, my p**sy. I am so much more than that. We could have gone on as we were, but I knew there was something wrong with the whole relationship, and my participation in it. I wish I didn't "need" to revert to it. But, because of his rejection of me, I want him to feel mine.

If it was you that severed the relationship, I believe Sneaky is hurting more than I am, because it was MY decision to stop any contact with this man. ( Hope that makes sense)

"She has, of a year ago, gotten everything that she always wanted; a luxurious white picket fenced house, a decent man in her life who is living with her and jointly owns the home and she still wants MORE at my expense!!! She is using this poor guy, who is smitten with her, mercilessly!! In trying to buy Ms. sneaky's happiness, the poor bastard is trying to get me to talk to Ms. Sneaky, not realizing the horrific ramifications for all if I did! Both he and I would probably end up in a public punch up with Ms. Sneaky glorifying in having two men publicly fighting over her. It will never happen!"

While I say I see Ms Sneaky in me, I have never been one for big public brawls, or using someone for money. I have pulled my self short of this.

I have a question - is there no other place you and your lady can dance? Someplace the Sneaky/come hither/come slither woman does not go?

"If I were in your shoes, I would forget about Casino man completely -" I am trying, but there are things that trigger my memories. Driving past the casino on my way home from the doctors office. Wearing the clothes or lingerie I wore when I was with him. (he liked lace under denim, and sometimes he liked me to leave the lacy stuff on). Even when I am having sex with my nice man, I think of him.

I have another question, Tez - Can you forget completely about Ms Sneaky? I mean, let's say she evaporated from the dances? The phone calls stopped? Could you forget?

Bevdee

August 27, 2006
7:13 pm
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Hi BevDee.

Thanks for your post and your compliments.

You said:

"If it was you that severed the relationship, I believe Sneaky is hurting more than I am, ... ... ..."

Yes, it was me that severed the relationship after about 4 - 5 months, while it was still in the honeymoon period for Ms. Sneaky - not for me. My honeymoon period ended after a week with Ms. Sneaky.

I agree with the 'rejection' being a major factor. My belief is that Ms. Sneaky's template matching was enhanced even further by my rejecting her. She is a 'phoney' person through and through. Her whole value system is tied up with the maintenance of her 'public image' as seen through her own eyes! She is amoral - not immoral. She sees herself as a 'femme fatale' and wants every guy, with what she sees as a high 'social profile', chasing her. She has broken it off with every guy that she has ever had - and there have been many! I am to my knowledge the only exception. Thus she is preoccupied with getting me to chase her so she can dump me publicly.

Since the sex was so good for her and I'm no studmuffin, I'm convinced that I am a strong template match for her. This adds to her pain. Since I've seen how callous and cruel that she has been to other guys in using and abusing them without regard for their feelings, I have little sympathy for her. Deep down her pain is all about her not about me.

You asked:

"I have a question - is there no other place you and your lady can dance? Someplace the Sneaky/come hither/come slither woman does not go?"

Not really. The dancing scene here is like one big family wherein regular dancers go from place to place. I can go to just about any dance anywhere in a 100 mile radius and know at least half the people there at least to talk to. I do go to one dance to which she never goes. But one dance is not enough for my partner, Joy. Joy insists that Ms. Sneaky moves out of the dance scene not me. They are mortal enemies. Joy says that one day, if provoked enough, she will give Ms. Sneaky a smack in the head in the women's toilets.

"I have another question, Tez - Can you forget completely about Ms Sneaky? I mean, let's say she evaporated from the dances? The phone calls stopped? Could you forget?"

Oh yes, very easily. Occassionally Ms. Sneaky goes away for a month on holidays. After not seeing her for a week or two, she disappears from my mind completely.

As for the 'hurt' that Ms. Sneaky feels, I have the same hurt too. However, the difference is that I have the deep realization that the 'hurt' that I feel is coming from the rejection and abandonment that I felt as a child not from Ms. Sneaky. I also realize just as deeply that the yearning that I feel for Ms. Sneaky is really yearning for my long gone mother's love that was never there in the first place. My mother was incapable of loving anyone, just like Ms. Sneaky. Thus it is quite easy for me to talk to myself and say :"Look boy, Ms. Sneaky isn't your mother. But like your mother, she will only inflict pain on you as she did when you were with her! Do you really want more of that?????" "NO, NO, NO!" Is the instant reply! Then I continue talking to myself with words like: " Look! You are a big boy now and more than capable of looking after yourself with my help. I will look after 'us'- mom can go bite her arse!"

BevDee, in case you think it, I'm not suffering from a multiple personality disorder. I deeply realize that there is a 'thinking' me and a 'feeling' me. This is the 'us' to which I refer above. The 'thinking' me is very good at selecting the right partner(Joy). The 'feeling' me is hopeless at picking partners - it picked Ms. Stinky and Ms. Sneaky. My feeling self picks replicas of mom every time !!! Thus I, my 'thinking' self, have to step in and sort out the mess. This mess with Ms. Sneaky is a creation of my 'feeling' self not my 'thinking' self, that at the time was stupidly subservient to getting what my 'feeling' self wanted without a 'thought' for the ramifications.

"What's love got to do with it? ... What's love but second hand emotion ..." as the words of the song go!

The words "second hand" are most significant! Had I a good, loving mother, I would never have obsessively craved to get into Ms. Sneaky's pants in the first place!!!!! I would have sort sex with a loving, caring woman automatically. Hmmmmm!! A "second hand" emotion sure drove me into Ms. Sneaky's boudoir. And it wasn't love!

Whoever wrote the words(Tina Turner?)of the song below sure had the same insight into how our templates drive us into replicating the pain felt in childhood seeking the love that was never there in the first place and is not there in the "second hand replication of 'mom/dad' that we latch on to in trying to satisfy that hoary old needs!

The song continues:

"Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken?"

For some of us the "heart" was already "broken" in childhood. I believe that it can only be 'healed' by giving real love to oneself and to others! This is my deepest realization and conviction. If only I could do it 100% of the time, then Ms. Sneaky or any other template match would not be able to retrigger the old wounds. If I could love 100% all of humanity then I guess I'd be a Buddha - and I'm not yet that, not in this lifetime at least. But I know that it is the way!

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What's love got to do, got to do with it

What's love but a second hand emotion

What's love got to do, got to do with it

Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken

It may seem to you that I'm acting confused

When you're close to me

If a tend to look dazed I've read it someplace

I've got cause to be

There's a name for it

There's a phrase that fits

But whatever the reason you do it for me

What's love got to do, got to do with it

What's love but a second hand emotion

What's love got to do, got to do with it

Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken

I've been taking on a new direction

But I have to say

I've been thinking about my own protection

It scares me to feel this way

What's love got to do, got to do with it

What's love but a sweet old fashioned notion

What's love got to do, got to do with it

Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken

----------------------------------

August 29, 2006
2:04 pm
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Ahh Tez!

I love Tina Turner!! I always loved her dancing, her voice, her music, after I read her autobiography, and then I loved her. Yes, her heart was broken in her childhood when her mama left her with her grandma. Then she hooked up with Ike, an abuser who was later quoted as saying he didn't hit her any more than other men hit their wives. He broke the bones in her beautiful face, then forced her to go on stage and sing, so as not to miss a gig. He had affairs with the back-up singers (her friends also) and rubbed her nose in it.

She became a Buddhist before she left Ike. She has the grace of spirit to give that Ike the credit for her rise to stardom.

It wasn't long after I saw her autobiographical movie "What's Love Got To Do With It?" that I left Lucifer.

I asked you - "I have another question, Tez - Can you forget completely about Ms Sneaky? I mean, let's say she evaporated from the dances? The phone calls stopped? Could you forget?" - And you answered - Oh yes, very easily. Occassionally Ms. Sneaky goes away for a month on holidays. After not seeing her for a week or two, she disappears from my mind completely. "

How? I had gone 6 months without seeing the Casinoman, and it doesn't seem to be doing any good. He just pops in my head like that DropDeadFred!!

NO, I don't think you have multiple personalities, Tez! I believe if this technique you describe works well for you, well who cares if you talk to yourself? Yourselves? I talk to myself all the time, and sometimes..... my lips move! I need to change the things I say, though. I'm still working on that. ( I hope you "see" my joking in some of this)

I am still throwing things away. I emptied a couple more boxes last night. My next chore will be to reorganise the junk I think I need to keep. I am also trying to study my texts before I start my classes again. I am too sick of cellular structure. Not interesting to me.

Talk to you later

Bevdee

August 29, 2006
7:40 pm
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Bevdee.

Thanks for your post.

In it referring to my forgetting Ms Sneaky, you asked:

"How? I had gone 6 months without seeing the Casinoman, and it doesn't seem to be doing any good. He just pops in my head like that DropDeadFred!!"

Getting rid of Casinoman from your head won't come easy. What do you think and do when he does "pop into your head"? Do you allow the fantasies and thoughts to run wild?

I had to do a lot of work on myself after breaking it off with Ms. Stinky(not to be confused with Ms. Sneaky) some 20 years ago. It took 10 years to get to the point that I could go a day without thinking about her every day. Once in a fight, I said to Ms Stinky: "You are a stinkin' rotten person." After that I nicknamed her (affectionately?) as "Stinky" and she liked it!

Ms Stinky was less of a template match for me than Ms. Sneaky. Butttttt ... I was completely ignorant of the mental processes underpinning my cravings! After the Ms. Sneaky breakup, I had already gained a wealth of insights, knowledge and experience to call upon. Between the Ms. Stinky and Ms. Sneaky relationships, I had attained a uni degree with a major in psychology as well.

At this juncture, I would like to strongly emphasize the difference between knowledge and insight.

'Seeing' my 'template' in action inside my psyche in relation to my emotions and knowing the theory underpinning the behavior of my psyche and emotions in this regard are two entirely different things. Attaining both has been a tremendous source of strength. Buddhist meditation has put the rocket fuel into both these engines, without which I would be powerless.

Now, when I have no reminder of Ms. Sneaky, my inner craving for Ms. Sneaky, i.e. 'mom' in disguise, wains to insignificance. But I surely have put in 'the hard yards' over very many years. The total realization that it is the loving, intimate body contact with my mom of my infant days - of which I was deprived - that I crave, not Ms. Sneaky's vagina. This realization, insight, and knowledge is very deepseated and relief giving these days.

"What's love got to do with it. What's love but a secondhand emotion." - Tina T.

Realizing, 'see'ing and knowing that at depth frees me; that is, when Ms. Sneaky is not around to visually trigger off my amygdala directly - of course! If Ms. Sneaky got me alone and went into overdrive I think I would be mincemeat. But she doesn't know that, thank goodness. So I'm never cocky about the strength of my defences. I'm a daily proposition.

People like Guest_guest seem to misunderstand the above completely. They seem to think that knowledge, realizations, insights and personal growth etc will automatically provide absolute control over the emotions - the amygdala. Dr. LeDoux, an emiment neuroscientist of NYU Labs, gives an explanation of the power of the amygdala. He says that the efferent neural pathways from the amygdala to the neocortex are very abundant, but the pathways from the neocortex to the amygdala sparse indeed. He believes that humanity will evolve eventually over the eons to come to the point that these pathways will strong in both directions. Then with thought alone we will be able to control our emotions and thus our feelings at will. But until that day comes, watch out Tez, BevDee, and Guest_guest for Ms. Sneaky, Casinoman and Cutie Pie respectively!!!

August 29, 2006
8:18 pm
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Tez, i saw my nick so I read your post more:

>> If Ms. Sneaky got me alone and went into overdrive I think I would be mincemeat. << Tell me one thing: does your sig other know about this? How would she feel if she knew this? Further are you saying that all men would be unable to control themselves in this kind of situation, or is it just you? If its just you, its another matter, but I'll tell you that Bevdee will agree with me when I say this doesnt apply to all men. I think I saw Bevdee wondering if she'd ever be able to forget casinoman (I really read part of you guys posts and that too only sometimes) - well Bevdee its hard for me to forget "cupie pie" too (the lying cheating out-of-control, addicting girl I had an affair with). Its been 2 months since I spoke to her but she's there in my mind almost all the time, or a large portion of it. I wish it wasnt the case. But now with time I'm simultaenously reminding myself more and more that she's not good for me. That means the memory that comes to my mind, which used to be "I want this girl so much, she looks ideal for me", has changed to "No, she's severely weak. I'll be setting myself upfor hurt" The memories are still popping in but they're a different kind of memory now. I hope so much that I'll be able to get over her soon as possible. I HAVE stopped waking up in the middle of the night as I used to do since November so I think this is a big improvement for me, regarding me getting over her. I hope it continues to become better. This girl has cost me $1000, including a sleep study! Thats ok though. Money comes and goes. istill need to work on my mental health, going to write more in my thread now. Thanks to Tez, for stimulating me to write here. hehe.

August 29, 2006
8:44 pm
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Bevdee, so yea, I wonder if you'll agree with me when I say not all men are unable to control themselves in "weak" situations like Tez/Sneaky and me/CutiePie ?

August 29, 2006
11:11 pm
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Bevdee and Tez, now that I'm ignoring the Cutie pie continiusly, is she in torture? I want to know she's in mental torture (maybe in hopes that she'll come around and realize).

With your experience of Sneaky and Casinoman, would the Cutiepie be in mental anguish most of the time becuase I'm one of the few guys who showed her the door or is she keeping her mind off me and getting attention from her men instead (an endless supply for her)? Whats happening, I wonder?

August 30, 2006
4:08 pm
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G_"would the Cutiepie be in mental anguish" I think she might be.

Also-about being self-conscious? I am alot. I am naturally a shy person, but I have what I call a blurting syndrome - and say the wrong thing about half the time. But - as much as I have embarassed myself - I got over it!!

Go easy, G_

Bevdee

August 31, 2006
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">> If Ms. Sneaky got me alone and went into overdrive I think I would be mincemeat. << "Tell me one thing: does your sig other know about this?" Absolutely. "How would she feel if she knew this?" Initially she did not like hearing it. After I explained the nature of this powerful, infant programmed emotion once triggered, AND my absolute assurance that I would NEVER allow myself to get into the situation wherein this emotion would be recalled, she was OK with it. She appreciated my honesty. After 2 years of almost weekly, practically unavoidable proximity with my template match in the company of my "sig" and my totally blocking of any eye contact, touch or communications of any other kind with Ms. Sneaky, despite her many obtuse and subtle attempts, my "sig" now has no doubt of my sincerity, strength of character and determination in this matter. This does NOT negate what I said about my being "mincemeat", if I was ever so stupid as to allow intimacy of a seductive nature with a strong template match in a secluded place. HOWEVER IT WON'T HAPPEN!!! Many people in my situation, without the knowledge and experience that I have in this regard, have committed suicide. If severe enough, it can be just that deadly an emotional illness. Ms. Stinky's ex gassed himself because of her antics and his emotional illness!!! In those early days with Ms. Stinky I went close to a complete breakdown - believe me. It's no laughing matter!!

My purpose in telling BevDee this was to alert her to the fact that the POWER of this emotion, ONCE RECALLED, doesn't diminish with time, knowledge, insights, realization or wisdom. NO cognitive attainments, no matter how profound, will alter the intensity or power of this emotion once triggered into full recall. I know what I am talking about from many years of hard won and fully paid for experience.

"Further are you saying that all men would be unable to control themselves in this kind of situation, or is it just you?"

Obviously not all men or women have this problem. As I've said many times over, only those, who in infancy and early childhood were largely deprived of love and affection from manipulative and 'game playing' parents or significant carers, are likely to have a emotional craving
of this kind of power just waiting to be retriggered in adulthood. If the mother/father was highly dysfunctional to boot, then the double whammy is the painful nature of any relationship wherein any strong template match is involved. This is because a strong template match of necessity will have similar if not the same dysfunctional traits as well. In my case a strong template match is deceitful, lying, manipulative, nasty, game playing and downright untrustworthy. With such characteristics a relationship with any such template match of mine is bound to be painful and end in misery.

That's your quota boyo! I'm not going to write all this out again for you! As for you and Ms. Cutie Pie, you can take or leave what I say above at your own peril. Either way it is of no consequence for me.

September 1, 2006
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Hey Tez,

Good to hear from you. I am staying busy. Everything is unpacked, but it is sitting out, waiting for me to decide where it is to go. Next time I move, I want everything to be organised, and ready to roll!! No confusion next time. I have decided I am a packrat nomad. An oxymoron?

I am disciplining myself two hours each night to read my texts. I also am spending time in the early evening trying to train a new dog. A beautiful chocolate Lab. He came with the yard!! He is an outside dog, and has the annoying habit of jumping and trying to "hug" me by putting his paws around my neck. I have obedience trained a pitt and a boxer/pitt and they were very trainable. I am not sure how this Lab is going to work out. I am hoping he will learn a few commands by winter. You know - No! Sit! Stay! Lay down! If he can master these, I will let him inside when it gets cold. He's a sweet, joyous dog, but he's buck wild.

It is so nice to be away from next door ( where I was living). You were right when you said it would get me away from my friend's problems. I am still trying to relax from the high stress that exists in that household. They argued so much. When they didn't argue, the tension was still so thick, I often had headaches from it. I still find it hard to relax after living with such high tension for so long. I feel curiously flat after moving out.

Since her mother died, and the scene that ensued the night she got the news, her husband has been openly hostile to me. (before he had been subtly hostile) He told her privately that he hates me because she turns to me when she wants to talk. Well shit. There were 4 different times after the funeral she stood sobbing and he turned away. He was angry because the flowers I sent to the service were her mother's favorite colors, and everyone commented on it. ( trifling!!) While I was trying to move, he was openly hostile to me and my cousin, and often stood in our path as we were trying to move the heavy furniture off the truck. Twice - after dark, I have found him standing in my yard, looking in the kitchen. I suppose he is trying to intimidate me, but since I lived with Lucifer and made it out of that alive, there is not much (external) that actually intimidates me. Besides, he might weigh 120# with a pocket full of change. I believe I could take him.

The reason for all my rambling is - I lived with this couple for nearly a year, and the guy triggered me for so many reasons. I believe this is why I started this introspection. I got real quiet in that house. I stayed wuiet because even though I may have agreed with her when she argued with him, it is just stupid to ever get in a fight and side with one half of a couple. The other reason is that I suspected no one was listening. Sometimes they forgot I was there, I was so quiet.

He triggered me because his behaviour is so much like Luc's, and I watched her respond as I did 15 years ago.

When I moved in with them, I knew he had been convicted of a crime, and the conviction was on appeal. What I was told was that he was set up, and the appeal would be heard in a few months. ( it DOES happen). I was told he was chatting with minors online. The reason she offered to rent me a room is because she is in such debt for paying for the appeal, lawyer and his bail, more than $50,000, Charged to her credit cards. Because prospective employers do criminal background checks, he can only work at jobs that illegal aliens get.

What I found out after I moved in was that he was convicted of aggravated sexual assault on a minor. There was child pornography found in his vehicle at the time of the arrest. The meeting that was aggravated by the FBI had been arranged thru internet personals and chatting. He tried to meet a 13 year old girl at a motel. My friend was dating him at the time of the arrest, and she posted bail and paid the legal fees. I believe her when she says she believed in the innocence he and his defense lawyer attested to. I believe she wanted to believe his innocence.

I found all this out because - I had a PC when I moved in, but after about a month there, while doing the disc clean up, I found child porn in my temp internet files. I found chat folders that were not mine. I told my friend, and when we checked her PC, there was more of the same. There was a huge scene that night when he got home from work, and when she started hitting him upside the head with the telephone. I had to wrestle it from her. He told her he had been chatting since he got out on bail, and using the webcam.

The next day, he apologised to me. I told him I suspected he wanted his wife to know, or he would have cleaned up the files.

He told me "I want to stop, but I can't"

I had had no idea it was this bad. I don't believe she did, either. My suggestions for counseling have been ignored.

I changed my password every day. He still got on my computer. I don't know how he bypassed my password. So I sold my computer. I would not even use her PC to check my email, because I don't even want that on her hard drive.

In Feb, his appeal was argued and heard. ( I kept my fingers crossed) In April, this appeal was denied. Immediately the lawyer filed another appeal, and a week later, because my friend did not answer his phone calls from work (after the 30th call that night) , he faked a suicide attempt. Grandstanding. It was an "overdose" he claimed, he took 3 pills instead of the one he ususally takes daily for depression. He blamed it on her not paying any attention to him. He blamed it on me, for taking her attention away from him. She took him to the hospital, and he was released after 36 hours. Some suicide watch, huh? I think everyone saw through that!

He has been fired from 2 jobs in the last 5 months, one for his anger management problems, and one for taking food, after being warned repeatedly. Each time, he ranted and raved about how he was "set up". When she wasn't home, he would corner me and talk about how he was framed for the food, the anger management, and his conviction. The curious thing to me, is that he would go for days, either ignoring me or being rude or hostile, then something would compel him to "need" me as an audience for his litany of woe.

After he was fired the second time, shortly before her mother passed away, I decided I was going to move out. Being fired from this evening job put him home every night, and I just can't take being around him every night. He bitches about everything, interrupts conversations, changes the channels on the TV, turns lights off ( to save electricity) while I am reading. He rummaged through my personal belongings in my bedroom when I was not home. I had worked 60 hours a week or more since January, so I would be able to get out of debt faster and move. I had saved enough to move out, but then her mother passed, and I had decided to wait so I could be supportive of my friend. She is still taking it real hard.

The house I moved into is her folks' house. After the funeral, her father made the offer for me to live here. He does not want to sell it, and he told me he wants someone living in it, and likes that I will be close to his daughter. This house sat empty, except a couple of days each month when her folks would come and visit. There were no locked doors, and her husband came to the house daily, ostensibly to check on it. Well, one day she decided to check her daddy's PC and she found the same kind of history on it. Her husband swore it was not him, that it must have been some neighbors- or ME (while I was at work!!) - or her son who was visiting. He convinced her to set up a spy-cam to catch whoever it was!! She spent money she couldn't afford to spare for a cam, and when they played it back, there was nothing recorded from the cam, but!! new activity on the temp files.

When her daddy offered to let me stay there, we went over so I could look around, and the husband was telling me about the air filters, water pressure, all the little quirks of the old house. I looked at the doors because the house has shifted, causing the door to sag away from the frame, and the deadbolt did not fit to the plate. I told them I would get the locks put on, and send her daddy the keys. He laughed in my face and told me there was no way to lock the doors, I looked him dead in the eye and told him there would be locks on both doors. There are now - and on the windows too. He is angry that her daddy's PC is gone from here. He is angry because this is where he came to smoke. He tells her he doesn't, and thinks she is stupid, and can't smell it on him. She and I discovered a couple of months ago that he had been taping phone conversations from the land phone in her house.

I have watched my friend lose trust and fall out of love with him. Her disillusionment has manifested itself physically. She stays sick. ( I have been there, I know her pain)

He triggers me because he lies. I think he must be a sociopath, the way he lies. I have watched him for almost a year, and it never ceases to amaze me that he can be lying, everyone knows it - and he is so caught up in it, he doesn't realise he is caught out. It's just pitiful to watch!! When he starts this with me, I just silently stare at him, and it causes him to ramble, embellish, and contradict himself, because I am listening quietly, not disputing him. ( I have found this to be a very effective method of drawing out a liar) Every time he is confronted with one of his lies, he is shocked!! To be accused!! He lies about the silliest things!! Inconsequential things!! This lack of conscience frightens me.

He trips my trigger when I see the hatred for his wife in his eyes. It reminds me of Luc and I have struggled with my old responses of hate.

He triggers me because he hates her son. He speaks to him horribly when she is not around. Because I have stayed quiet about their arguing, I believe he thought I would say nothing in defense of this child. He badmouths the boy constantly. I had a stepmother for a while that treated me and my sister like he does her son. My daddy did not know how she treated us when he was not around. Besides, her son is a nice kid, and doesn't deserve to be treated that way.

He triggers me because I feel sorry for the motherf**ker. He is a very sick man. She told me that he was raped by 2 male cousins when he was 14. I have observed that when he is afraid, the PC activity increases. He feels threatened every time his wife talks to me, her son, her family. He is jealous of their dogs when she pets them. ( I notice that my big dog now flinches when I put my hand out to pet his head) He feels threatened when she talks about her job in a field he knows nothing and cares not to know about. I know he is afraid when he thinks of prison and the reception he will recieve from the inmates for the type of crime he is convicted for. He is afraid and it makes him turn to that.

Living in this for the last year forced me to put my life and my self under a microscope.

Talking to you about the amygdala and fear has helped me understand so much. I have tried to explain it to my friend, but I believe she is so wrapped up in her own hell, she does not hear me. She does say that when they have big arguments she has come to expect him "to act up pretty bad" within a few days. She thinks of it as infidelity to her. I don't. My friend says they have not had sex for 9 months. I can't say this to her, but it doesn't surprise me, she is NOT 13, she has a woman's body, and she does look so like his mother.

He triggers me because I was molested when I was 10 years old by my 14 year old female babysitter. Not raped but stripped, held down and felt up. I remember and believe that my sister, locked out of the room, banging on the door stopped any further abuse.

Tez. I did not remember this until a couple of weeks ago!! Until I moved out. When it got quiet. I have supressed this for 36 years. How is this possible? How did I go through a year and a half of therapy, and not remember this?

How did I go through this last year, and not remember this until now? The oddest thing is - with this memory, I did not have much emotion. Kind of a dull wonder. I don't feel fear, horror, revulsion. I think this is the oddest part!

Bevdee

September 2, 2006
7:41 pm
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Tez

>> My purpose in telling BevDee this was to alert her to the fact that the POWER of this emotion, ONCE RECALLED, doesn't diminish with time, knowledge, insights, realization or wisdom. NO cognitive attainments, no matter how profound, will alter the intensity or power of this emotion once triggered into full recall. << These are absolute statements. They would ONLY be possible if you had a 100% unhealthy childhood. Only THEN, would you be in a position where no wisdom/realization at ALL would help you out of the mess. Ultimately, its your responsibility to not let yourself be triggered into full recall. You're making excuses for irresponsible behavior. Why do you think your sig other was unhappy to hear it the first time? And ofcourse she had no choice but to be OK later. Ofcourse she would prefer to know that you are responsible and can control yourself no matter how risky the situation. Its your personal responsibility. >> Obviously not all men or women have this problem. << Yes thats my point. Only you had this problem of being out of control. Other men may be more responsible and no matter how hard Sneaky tried, they'd be able to control themselves. No doubt you ended up with three bad women, one after the other. Look at me, I hope this Cutiepie will be my last. I've made many advances in realization about many things. I have a bigger awareness now and hopefully wont repeat this. You cant blame your behavior on "perfect template matching", or "fully triggered". The bottomline is, you are responsible for your actions now as an adult and thats IT. If you were unfaithful, its your fault. You cant blame it on "triggers" and "template matches". If I go and kill someone and later tell the judge "Sorry, I was fully triggered and the deceased was a 'perfect template match'", think thats gonna work? Nope. But I dont think you'll be totally out of control. I think what you mentioned was a hypothetical situation. But if you're saying is that if you and Sneaky were alone and she would try to seduce you, and you'll definitely end up being intimate with her - thats sad (thats why your sig other was upset), yes its only you. Not all men are like that.

September 2, 2006
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hi bevdee,

thanks for letting me know she might be in anguish. Gosh its hard to get her out of my mind. She's there almost constantly. One day it'll be done. Or atleast I will be affected by it less and less and care less and less. I've already improved e.g. I gained my sleep and stopped waking up in the middle of the night.

September 2, 2006
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Bevdee.

G'day and thanks for an interesting post. You surely are emotionally emmeshed in the life of your ex-flatmate.

Speaking about your childhood molestation, you said:

"Tez. I did not remember this until a couple of weeks ago!! Until I moved out. When it got quiet. I have supressed this for 36 years. How is this possible? How did I go through a year and a half of therapy, and not remember this?"

It is interesting to learn that there are female 'perpetrators' as well as males.

I wonder if perhaps in your innocence you may have enjoyed the experience somewhat? Upon later learning that it was 'naughty', did you only then feel terrible guilt?

At about 5 years of age, I was caught and shamed by my father for examining my 4 year old sister's vagina. I repressed the memory and the shaming for many years. However, later on at age 9 being forced by my parents to wipe my 2 year old sister's dirty bum sure disgusted me. My dad and mum had a news paper business down stairs. When not at school, I had the responsibility of keeping my three sisters quite. That meant entertaining them, and attending to the two youngest one's every needs. When the youngest went on the pot, she would run to me and form a 'tripod' waiting for her bum to be wiped. It sure hated that job. Out of disgust, I used to try not to look as I did the job. I think this highly unpleasant duty killed any paedophilic desires I might otherwise have developed. Yet my partner's ex when he was 12 or 13, he raped his 8 year old sister. When this same sister grew up and had a child at 18 to some bf, this same ex raped his same sister again within a few weeks after the birth. This same ex sexually interfered with his own 12 year daughter by my partner. He would have had intercourse with her but for the fact that she threatened to knife him in his sleep if he did. My partner only discovered this after reading the daughter's diary. She no longer allowed her daughter to visit her father after that. This same ex of my partner's was living defacto with a woman while having sexual intercourse with this woman's young daughter by previous guy as well. When the mother found out she committed suicide. Now the same ex has had several children by this entrapped young girl. One of these children, a girl and the ex's grand daughter, is now at molesting age. So this degenerate is now going to start on his grand daughter. He has not the slightest remorse regarding it all as some sort of sexual initiation rite and his right to have his way. He sees it as no different to young boys doing the same thing to his daughters. He is so ignorant of the psychological ramifications. He gets away with it because no one will come forward and undergo the terrible ordeal entailed in due legal process in the courts.

Repression of memories of past events is one way our minds hold such unpleasant feelings of guilt at bay by preventing recall.

When we disclose our innermost things to others and still retain their respect and approval, we start to realize that it is OK to have these memories. Then they start to surface. When they do, these memories also lose their power to trigger off fears of abandonment by others.

Guilt is fear in disguise IMHO. Guilt is fear of being publicly shamed, fear of punishment, fear of abandonment, fear, fear, fear. I'm all for recognition of past inappropriate behavior and then to have contrition. But feelings of guilt are in my opinion mostly non productive. If these feelings motivate us to find out more about ourselves then I guess that they have some redeeming value.

Speaking of your ex-flatmate's partner's problem, paedophilia is definitely highly inappropriate behavior. The problem with public outrage against paedophiles is that it drives paedophiles further into the quagmire of their past repression and then into 'acting out' that which was usually done to them as children themselves.

Dr. Carl Jung said that denial of the demons within our personal unconscious compels us to 'act out' their awful propensities . Ministers of religion are often so terrified of their so-called 'sinful natures', that they deny their own deepest desires and are thus unknowingly forcing themselves to act them out. That is why many a priest or minister of religion seccumbs to temptation and sexually molests innocent children entrusted to their care.

If paedophiles were freed enough to openly admit to their sexual preferences to both themselves and to the world without the 'shaming' or the fear of retribution then perhaps they would be freed of acting out their destructive sexual preferences on innocent children.

This does not mean that a paedophile has to go through life celibate. After the initial sexual 'imprinting', paedophiles cannot be reprogrammed to have so-called normal sexual preferences, IMHO. However, they can choose complementary, consenting adult sexual partners of smallish stature and live out their sexual preferences 'in their head'. To do this happily, would require IMO a hell of a lot of self acceptance, self understanding, and self love.

Your ex-flat mate's partner is hardly at the above stage from what you say.

However, in your situation , you have obviously arrived at the stage where you have freed yourself enough to 'see' into your past memories without sitting in judgement upon yourself. Thus the surprising recall mentioned above has recently surfaced. There may be more coming.

Do you think any 'sexual imprinting' occured during your childhood sexual experience with this older girl? If it excites you thinking about it, then my guess is that there was. I think that it is a falacy thinking that sexual pleasure starts at puberty. We are sexual beings at birth. Puberty simply releases the hormones that brings about the changes necessary to ensure reproduction is possible. My first template match, Ms. Stinky, told me that she used to pull her very young son's pants down and give him a smack on his bare bum when he was naughty. I think Ms. Stinky was bordering upon some kind of disguised mild paedophilia when she did this. She giggled when she told me that her very young son would 'crack a fat' when she did this. She kept doing it! She did not seem to realize that she was sexually imprinting her very young son for adult sexual deviations such as sexual sadomasochistic bondage and domination preferences. Nannies in some societies used to fondle infant boys' penises to passify them and to stop them from crying and disturbing the parents. There must have been some sexual pleasure for the infants and possibly even for the nannies. My point is that sexual imprinting can happen while quite young well before puberty.

I find it hard to sit in judgment upon anyones' sexual preferences. However, 'acting out' these preferences in a way that innocent children are programmed for life without the benefit of an adult brain to make the right life choices or even the power to choose is quite another thing. I don't know how society can educate predatory people to see the ramifications of such inappropriate acting out.

We humans are so technically advanced yet so psychologically in the dark ages.

I saw Ms. Sneaky at a ball I attended last night. She kept her distance and all went well. There was 150 people at the ball so I hardly laid eyes on her. I won a small raffle prize and entertained the crowd with an American Indian war dance complete with 'whooping and hollering' - as if I'd won a million bucks. They love such antics from me. I find it strange that they do. It seems to free them all up thinking that they can't be as silly as me. People are soooo self-conscious. I'm somewhat past all that these days.

September 5, 2006
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Tez-

G'day to you!! I'm always glad to hear from you.

"You surely are emotionally emmeshed in the life of your ex-flatmate." Tell me about it!! It was all I heard for the last year. Though I believe alot of good has come of it for me emotionally. It helped me grow in a lot of ways. A good way to try to practice detachment. Figger my triggers! It propelled me here, didn't it?

But- this enmeshment is almost spooky. Before we met, we had bought identical items for our homes. We have the same bed, dishes, shoes, and home decorations. Basically we have the same taste. A few months ago, we discovered that we have the same Native ancestry, not uncommon in this part of the country, but!! my surname is her grandmother's maiden name. (It is a very uncommon name). So we are searching genealogy sites for the common ancestor. And we share a rare blood type. I wonder if some of this similarities are genetic?

But, I am really staying away. Her life is chaos, and I am glad I am able to be removed from it. I have spent the last few days in my new house without the TV or radio on. This is an experiment I am running with myself to see how much the background noise affects my thinking. Clutters my mind.

I took a broadcasting class in college, and when we studied the history of radio, the professor told us in the early days of radio, there was a night each week called "silent night"maybe Thursday?, and all but a few stations across the country would shut down at an agreed time. This allowed the ones still operating to be heard over farther distances. A station in NY could be heard in Chicago. Because there was little interference from other stations, it could transmit farther. I have noticed that when there is less personal "static" I am more perceptive, and extrasensorily perceptive. So far, there have been no more revelations, except that when the house is quiet the dogs snore really loud.

Then I read - "However, in your situation , you have obviously arrived at the stage where you have freed yourself enough to 'see' into your past memories without sitting in judgement upon yourself. Thus the surprising recall mentioned above has recently surfaced. There may be more coming." Possibly why I shut all the "noise" off.

And thank you for pointing this out - "When we disclose our innermost things to others and still retain their respect and approval, we start to realize that it is OK to have these memories. Then they start to surface. When they do, these memories also lose their power to trigger off fears of abandonment by others."

Thank you Tez. Thank you for not throwing up your hands and saying - Bevdee Bevdee how much more can there be?- And thanks to the site for providing me such a place. There are so much from my past I am unwilling/unready to share with anyone in person.

Yesterday, I called my mom and told her I needed to talk about it, if she was willing. She was. She told me the babysitter was mean to my sister and me, that my sister had told her the babysitter would pull my hair and yank me backward off the piano bench when I practiced piano. She told me that as soon as I told her what had happened, she and Daddy went next door to talk to the sitter's parents. The parents responded by saying I must be lying. Mom said she took me to a child psychologist to talk about it. Only once. ( I do not remember this) She told me I didn't say much about it, and she and Daddy were unsure how to handle it, so they never brought it up again. We were never allowed to be in those neighbors house again.

She also reminded me of what Daddy told us years later. I DO remember this. About 4 years later the sitters father divorced her mother and married a woman he had been having an affair with. About a year later, he was tried and convicted of raping his step-daughter. The step-daughter was in my gym class, and this was on the news and in the papers. He was in prison for several years. I did not know that after the divorce, the sitter's mother sold the house. One of the neighbors helped her pack, and later told my daddy that there were holes in the ceiling over the stall of the girls' shower, and the ceiling of each of their bedrooms. She asked the mother about it, she told her that her ex had molested both girls, his biological daughters, for a long time. He also had them have sex with each other while he watched or participated.

"Do you think any 'sexual imprinting' occured during your childhood sexual experience with this older girl? If it excites you thinking about it, then my guess is that there was. I think that it is a falacy thinking that sexual pleasure starts at puberty. We are sexual beings at birth. Puberty simply releases the hormones that brings about the changes necessary to ensure reproduction is possible."

In thinking about this a few things come to mind. Sexual beings at birth - I agree. My sister told me this story about my niece when she was 2. My sister's husband is from Egypt, and very proper, raised in the Egyptian culture,and with proper speech, because he was educated in London. (I say this because whe are such drawlin rednecks down here!! We talk wrong!!) He came in on his little daughter rubbing her labia with a blue crayola. My sister came around the corner to hear him say," Honey, are you coloring yourself?"

"At about 5 years of age, I was caught and shamed by my father for examining my 4 year old sister's vagina." - and - I think this highly unpleasant duty killed any paedophilic desires I might otherwise have developed. " Where I am from, we called this "playing doctor". I don't think this is at all uncommon, Tez. I think it is normal curiosity for children that age. "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"

As for me, I can't remember being excited. I remember fear. Fear!! What I do remember is being very sexually precocious. At age 10 or 11. And my puberty started at 11, if by that you mean the onset of menses. I think I started masturbating when I was 11. Another thing - anytime I watched a porn flick, I would leave the room or tune out the scene that is in every single porn flick - you know the one I'm talking about?? the mandatory woman -on- woman scene? The one in every porn flick ever made? It made me angry. And it still does - well!! there are never any man-lovin-man scenes, but that is for a different thread.

I have wondered why so many lesbians come on to me. They always have. Worried that I might be putting off some signal, I once asked my cousin why he reckoned so many of these gals propositioned me. I mean for a while, it seemed they were coming out of the woodwork, and just pelting themselves at me. (When this happens, I am always torn. I want to be polite, and I have never known a gracious way of turning someone down without worrying I am hurting feelings) He told me it was just because I am good looking. Whatever!

Several years ago, there was a travel tech on assignment at the hospital where I worked. She was very upfront about her preference. She was a long way from home, so I always made sure we included her at the lunchtable. One day, another tech asked me if I was aware the traveler "has it bad for you". Well, I hadn't been. She always told me how nice I looked, but then!! this started- always when I was sitting down, she would walk over and hug me, mashing her enormous breasts around most of my face!! Once, one of the guys asked if he could watch!! Ohmercifulgod!!! I felt terrible about this for several reasons. It was embarassing!! I would have been embarassed if a man was doing this. The director asked me if I wanted the tech to be spoken to about harassment. I said no, because I didn't want her to lose her assignment.( her professional rep). I was uncomfortable because I just didn't know how to let her know that wasn't for me. Luckily for me, she took another assignment, and wasn't there very long. I still don't know the etiquette on that type of situation.

The casino man tried to talk me into a threesome several times. This is a line I will never cross.

I believe I shut down any impulses that might have been left by the "imprinting".

In this last year, I'll call it my year of fear - I have had occasional dreams about having sex with a woman. No one in particular, just that I was With a woman, and I woke up scared. Do you suppose it was this memory trying to surface?

I thought I didn't judge anyone their sexual preferences, either. I don't judge same sex partnerships. I think if adults make each other happy - there should be no more conversation about it. But Not For Me. But I DID (DO?) judge pedophiles, male or female. I always have.

Hey Tez, I am glad to hear Ms Sneaky is not actin up!! Did the phone company ever nail her? Warn her? Slap her wrist? And congrats on your raffle prize. What was it? And where in the world did you learn an Indian War dance?

Being nosy,

Bevdee

September 5, 2006
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BevDee.

Thanks for another fascinating response.

"And congrats on your raffle prize. What was it"

Just a set of exotic candles and 2 candle holders. Junk as far as I'm concerned - but Joy liked it.

"And where in the world did you learn an Indian War dance?"

🙂 From Hollywood westerns of course. I'm sure they would be true representations - says I with tongue in cheek. 🙂

I nearly spew everytime I see American actors playing the parts of Australians in movies. Their accents are more like cockney accents than genuine Strine. And the Australian Army Slouch Hats are nothing like the ten gallon cowboy hats that are appropriated from the costumes department and grossly misrepresented as diggers' hats. They even present Royal Australian Air Force personel with the rank of 'Colonels' where no such rank exists in either the RAF or the RAAF. Hmmm! I do wish their script writers would do at least a little research.

So I did a Hollywood version of an Indian War dance - all two seconds of it. 🙂 I guess that I was very loosely speaking using much poetic licence in what I wrote.

And you said:

"But- this enmeshment is almost spooky."

I've seen documentaries based upon hynotic regression wherein people are grouped according to past life relationships. It seems to me that we seem to reincarnate in groups often entailing family relationships as well - though not always. I think that minds 'engineer' relationships that seem to form randomly.

Have you ever experienced seeing a guy and knowing in advance that he would be your future boyfriend? Then to your amazement he just comes on to you with such confidence and you are staggered by how easily you went along with it??

Was Casinoman like that???

Conspiratorial minds at work below the surface bringing about continuations of past relationships in other bodies??? Is that the "spooky"ness to which you refer?

And talking about your rejection of lesbian come ons and a dream you had, you said:

"No one in particular, just that I was With a woman, and I woke up scared. Do you suppose it was this memory trying to surface? "

I don't know. I suspect that you may have been trying to resolve a fear driven unresolved conflict. What the conflict is I'm not sure. You may be trying to resolve the conflict between fear of offending others in your work situation with fear of lesbian experiences imposed upon you against your will as per the babysitter experience. The memory and the whole affair may still be unresolved in your psyche. Maybe both the dream and the conscious recall is your psyche's way of resolving the internal cognitive dissonance caused by the past molestation event. But I really don't know. If I was in a 'one on one' eyeballing dialogue with you, I would take you back with a series of probing questions, each question determined by your previous answers and your emotional responses until I hit upon the core issue. But that's not possible here.

You said:

"Where I am from, we called this "playing doctor"."

Yes, we call it that too. It's no big deal - I know. But my father's reaction made it a big deal to me as a young child. The shaming was intense and the memory is still vivid today. My dad was all screwed up by his Catholic religion and was probably reacting to his own massive feelings of guilt - his own internal demons in his personal unconscious!! Catholics were really screwed up about sex in those days. I remember getting a lecture during religious instruction at an Irish Christian Brothers School about fondling women's breasts. We were all about 11 or 12 years old. It was the last thing on my mind. The whole class was mystified wanting to know which kid had gone the grope on one of the shielas from the Church of England Girls school next door. No one had done this. It seems that the Brother must have had a fantasy and a wank over some dirty picture and was expiating his guilt by telling us over a one hour lecture about the pains of the everlasting fires of hell for doing such a disgusting thing. 🙂 How f..ked up can you get???

I don't remember masturbating when an adolescent. I probably did. Later on it was different - I came across a few dry gullys then. As a young adolescent, I went after the shielas and 'scored often enough' to make it unnecessary - I guess. I used to come in my pants at just the sight of a naked tit anyway. What good would I have been to a real woman anyway. We were disgusting little hoons when I think about it. One night in the local picture theatre about six of us 12 year olds had this very cooperative girl lying across all of our laps. Each guy had 'something' to play with. She got the works!! I'm not telling you what part I had! How romantic it all was. Sharing our goodies is such a Christian thing. 🙂

The bus ride home from work as a 15 year old held an embarrassing memory. We would get down the back of the bus with the local 'hot pants'. One sheila used to delight in exciting me and then laughing when the time came for me to get off the bus with an erection! I always carried a newspaper for covering up purposes. I later ( at 17 years of age) got a sports car and got down to the 'real business' with those same shielas.

I lost my virginity at 15 to a 23 year old woman at work. I was seduced by her after an office party. I came as soon as I tried to penetrated her. She was disgusted with me and I was humiliated at my very 'premature' performance. It served her right. But I was ashamed to face her for months. She never tried it on again. Wonder why. 🙂

I was hurt badly by a girl that I really liked when I was about 14. After that I could never front up to or come onto a girl that I really liked. I went for the 'slags' as we called them then. I didn't care who I hurt and I burnt quite a few badly. Women were life support systems for vaginas as far as I was concerned. Even my marriage was a complete farce. I got married because I got my missus pregnant and in a moment of 'Catholic conscience' married her. Another BIG mistake. I finally got my come-up-ence when I hit Ms. Stinky - my first real template. In how I viewed women and without her knowing it, she changed my life for the better completely. I learnt one hell of a lot about myself. I also realized and regretted the pain that I had inflicted on women (paying back mom) in my life and I vowed NEVER to do it again. I have been and I am a source of pain for Ms. Stinky now. But I have done everything that I can to minimize that pain in her. She seems determined to keep that pain alive without realizing that it is her that is doing it to herself.

Reminiscing .... hmmm!!!

September 6, 2006
5:36 pm
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Tez

It's always good to hear from you, all your reminiscing!!

"I nearly spew everytime I see American actors playing the parts of Australians in movies. Their accents are more like cockney accents than genuine Strine." I feel this way about Yankee actors tryin to talk southern!!

"I've seen documentaries based upon hynotic regression wherein people are grouped according to past life relationships. It seems to me that we seem to reincarnate in groups often entailing family relationships as well - though not always. I think that minds 'engineer' relationships that seem to form randomly."

I have heard that. I think so too, because about 20 years ago, a friend of mine decided she was going to become a hypnotist, and asked me if I would let her practice on me. Sure. In 2 of the regressions, I recognised my mom and sister. In a separate one, I recognised my daddy and his 2nd wife. I truly believe that "love" relationships are reincarnated. I speculate (without any type of physical proof) that Lucifer and I have been born again and again to torture each other. I hope this last go-round with him is the end of it. The opportunity for past life regression hypnosis has never presented itself to me again. I don't want to know because if I did, and the answer was yes- we will be re-born again to work on karma, toward nirvana, whatever!-then I would fear death more than I do now. With that last statement, I might have been kidding a little , and I might not have been.

" Have you ever experienced seeing a guy and knowing in advance that he would be your future boyfriend? Then to your amazement he just comes on to you with such confidence and you are staggered by how easily you went along with it??" YES, and I really thought I was All That. That power I talked about.

Was Casinoman like that???" Oh HELL yeah. I looked at his eys in the picture he had placed in the personals and thought" I'm gonna have him" I told you, I looked at his picture and knew that if we got together, it would be good. Because of the personals, IMing and photo sharing, the attraction was there before we ever saw each other in person.

"Conspiratorial minds at work below the surface bringing about continuations of past relationships in other bodies??? Is that the "spooky"ness to which you refer?"

Maybe - I never thought of that possibility- with my friend There is such understanding between us. An acceptance of each other - I have never met anyone that accepts all my faults, or loves my virtues without trying to tear me down - our minds work alike, sometimes at the same pace, and other times we fill in the blanks for each other. When we worked at the hospital together, it was amazing how quickly we were able to adapt to each other's workstyle.

And no one could ever know how conspiratorial her mind and mine are. I have never felt such trust in a person, male or female, as I do her. I understand her rage and her pain, and she knows mine, too. Spooky. Sometimes I think it might be more than a template match, sometimes it seems like it might be a shared template!!

As for parents or clergy trying to instill shame - as an adult, I realise that the shame my mother tried to make me feel was her own. She got pregnant and "had" to get married. That was a big deal in 1959. She was not allowed to attend school "in her condition". So she tried to instill her fear and shame on me. She later told me my daddy's mother treated her like dirt because she got pregnant. Later, from my daddy's sisters, I found out that a pregnancy was the reason Daddy's mother got married. She projected her shame on my mother.

In my experience most little boys are disgusting hoons(??) (cute word, I never heard it before, but I get your drift)

Tez?? "Women were life support systems for vaginas as far as I was concerned." Oh man you KILL me!! Life support - fo da pigf***kin!!??

Bevdee

September 9, 2006
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Bevdee

Thanks for your post.

I often wonder at why men seem to be so 'body part' focussed while women seem to be more 'care amd support' focussed.

I guess that gender attitudes to sex derive from primitive days wherein men focussed upon the act of spreading their seed far and wide and women upon child rearing with protection and safety.

I just took the phone call from a woman friend of Joy my partner. She said: "How's Joy." I replied: "She awoke with a headache this morning and I never even asked her for 'anything'!"

The woman friend gasped: "Huhhh!" to which I roared laughing at her response of feigned disgust with my jocularity and lack of sympathy and caring in presupposing sex evasion as Joy's reason for complaining of a headache.

Now had that been a male friend calling, he probably would have roared laughing and would have said something like: "I suppose she must have seen the 'tent pole' holding the sheet up."

When we men wake up in the morning with an 'amorous disposition', we men are soooo romantic. 🙂

September 13, 2006
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Tez hey!

Your last post!!

"I guess that gender attitudes to sex derive from primitive days wherein men focussed upon the act of spreading their seed far and wide and women upon child rearing with protection and safety." Was this really a man's goal? It makes me think of those little seed scatterer things!!

You're an ornery cuss, aint ya? Yes there are always going to be big differences in men and women, I expect.

How's it going? I am still busy with my life! Things have gotten very hectic. The work at my job has picked up and it is not as easy as when I first started! I have actually put in some full days. Bummer. I was getting spoiled. I am trying to get my "stuff" organised and packed "right", for the next time I move. Still purging the possessions that possessed me. I have started my courses. Much to my surprise, I have found that I don't know everything!! and one of the required classes is kickin my ass! I am having to study sooo much. I am thinking if I can just PASS the damn course I will be happy. Damn an A, just let me pass.

How have you been?

I have been thinking of one of your statements in a previous post from 09-02-06
"You surely are emotionally emmeshed in the life of your ex-flatmate."

I have been thinking about this since I read it. Yes I am.
And I responded on 09-05-06- "But- this enmeshment is almost spooky."

I am asking myself why I said this. I am still exploring this - why did I say spooky? Scary to me? for me? Eery, as in supernatural, superstitious? My main goal in pondering all this is NOT to obsess about it, but just let the realisations flow naturally.

Here is something interesting. Since I moved - next door to my friend's, it has put more than a physical distance between us. On my part, I am able to observe situations/dramas/behaviours that I previously only reacted to.

Maybe this is because she calls me on the phone to vent and I am not making eye contact with her. I am not responding to her drama. I used to worry about her health. She is diabetic and has to use an insulin pump. Her body produces no insulin whatsoever. I have observed the effects that her dramas have on her sugar. I have noticed that in most cases her drama is her choice.( but - the same goes for ME, doesn't it?) I responded to it, because it was dramatic, and that is how I was raised - responding to drama. I have lived most of my adult life living this way, too.

There are alot of things happening with my sister, and I am hearing about all of it secondhand through my mother. My Mom is preparing her home for my sister to move back home. I am seeing similarities between my friend and my sister. Even before my sister became addicted to crack, I read about BPD tendencies, saw those in my sissy, and I am now seeing similarities with her and my friend.

Sometimes I wonder if because of MY needs and childhood, will I ever get out? I re-read some of my own posts, and I see a pattern. My cousin seemed safe because he was family. My friend and I are related distantly, and she shares similarities with my sissy.

I really don't want this to keep happening. It kind of tears me up. I am trying to find the best way to love my family, even the ones that trigger me so much, without the enmeshment.

On Sept 2 you posted "However, in your situation , you have obviously arrived at the stage where you have freed yourself enough to 'see' into your past memories without sitting in judgement upon yourself."

I have thought of this frequently since I read it. Judging. I judged myself. I found myself lacking, partly because of family and societal expectations. I put my trust in a system, I trusted it to tell me how to act and what to do. Everything I did was due to these expectations, even my rebellion against them.

And in making this move I have again become aware of patterns. Because - I developed a routine in the other place. In the kitchen, reach left for silverware. In the bathroom, reach right for my mascara. Since things are all in different places, I find myself reaching right instead of the new left, and I have to catch myself and remind myself where the stuff is. I am also finding this to be true of my emotions. Catching myself starting to think one way - I have to take a deep breath and tell myself - don't go there.

A few days ago, I decided to relax about many of the thoughts that had been running through my mind, pedophilia, latent? homosexuality? and my fears. ( I shrugged) I mean there is only so much I can take all at once. I am thinking of this as "dust settling". I am not giving up, or shutting down. I don't know if this is the"correct" way to do it, but at least I am not turning to religion in a panic!!

Keeping my pecker up!! Bevdee

September 15, 2006
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bevdee

You sound like you are going just great - no mention of current BF though. Are you losing interest?

I've been a bit busy working fulfilling orders. So I haven't been visiting this site for a few days. My new device looks like becoming an industry standard in Australia and New Zealand. The US market is huge compared to ours here in OZ. As I sell more and more, it is only a matter of time before the Chinese get a hold of one of my devices and then they'll saturate the US market with them. Then the US will export them to OZ and I will not be able to either compete or afford the intellectual property legal battles to stop it.

Oh well ... I will always have the immense satisfaction of knowing that I gave something back to the world.

You said:

"But- this enmeshment is almost spooky."

The Buddhists say that we all are emmeshed through attachment and aversion due to karmic influences.

I interprete this to mean, that my past intentions and motivations have so conditioned my mind as to lock me into relationships which are both attractive and repulsive in various degrees.

The "spooky" bit is that I don't think death finishes off this conditioning completely unfortunately. The Buddhists say that these karmic influences flow on to affect another life. This implies that we are drawn into relationships as if on autopilot.

I was watching a documentary on identical twins. It seems in these situations that karmic influences ensure duplicated genetic inheritances to the extent that the environment(nurture) plays a lesser part in the programming of the psyches of these twins. The seeming telepathic communications between these twins is so strong that they even know what the other is thinking. Science is on the threshold of making extraordinary advances through studying these twins.

Whilst you and your friend are not twins, you probably have a strong karmic bond, the origins of which may even precede your birth. Hypnotic regression might tell an interesting story.

Have you ever considered undergoing some hypnotic regression?

And you finished with:

"Keeping my pecker up!!"

Don't be unkind - keep your bf's pecker up too. 🙂

September 16, 2006
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Hey Tez

I am glad to hear from you. Yes I am doing pretty well.

"Oh well ... I will always have the immense satisfaction of knowing that I gave something back to the world." This is your immortality, isn't it? That's great.

You said - "The seeming telepathic communications between these twins is so strong that they even know what the other is thinking."

And "Whilst you and your friend are not twins, you probably have a strong karmic bond, the origins of which may even precede your birth. Hypnotic regression might tell an interesting story."

Yes, I believe this is true. Both she and my sister share with me an uncanny ability to know what the other is thinking.

"- no mention of current BF though. Are you losing interest?" Ah Tez, something has happened, and I don't know what to think. When I met him a year ago, he had been separated from his wife for about 2 years. My cousin that introduced us told me this before I met him. The reason he wasn't already divorced is that the wife could not be found to serve the divorce papers. After he came home this last time, a couple of weeks ago, he told me that his estranged wife was staying at his place. Both their grown children, children's spouses and three grandchildren live there with him. When we started seeing each other, he told me they split up because she was addicted to scrip drugs, and because she had a boyfriend. He told me they were living in another state. Now he tells me she is down and out, and she and the man she was living with broke up. He said she arrived when he was on the road, and his children put pressure on him to let her stay there. He told me he wanted to let me know so I could decide if I wanted to continue to see him. I believe he is being honest with me. He didn't have to tell me. After thinking about it for a few days, I told him I want to step back until he works through this situation. Until I have time to think it over.

So I am just sort of..... waiting. I am not waiting on him. I am waiting on myself. I don't want to make a hasty decision, because I believe I need to let my emotions kind of run the gamut.

My first inclination was to compete. That's the way I would have responded a couple of years ago. I'm bad that way - competitive! I'm not sure I have the energy for all that - physical or mental. I could try to half kill him with sex and cooking to make him see what all he will be missing, but that is manipulative and I don't want my relationship with him to be based on that. I get the feeling he is being manipulated by everyone at home.

My second inclination was to just throw myself into working, I can always use the extra money. My extra job can use me every weekend. All I have to do is call and let them know I am available. I might be too busy to think about anything. But - it's midnight shift, and I don't want to be so tired I can't think straight, and have the exhaustion affect my glucose levels and overall health. I have plenty to do with the hours I already work, and studying.

I have started getting up a little earlier in the morning, and have been walking with my little death-defying chihuahua down to the lake, and back. It's real pretty in the morning, and you can see the fish popping up. Another thing I have done is to savagely attack the unpacking and repacking of those blasted possessions. I'm almost finished.

The third inclination was to stop by the casino. Tez, I went up there Friday. I saw the Casinoman's truck in the parking lot. I stopped and sat there for a couple of minutes, chewed off all the fingernails on my left hand, but I pulled away without going inside. I'm embarassed that I even did that! Then I came home and called another guy I used to mess around with a few years ago, and we set up a date. I called him this morning and broke the date.

The fourth inclination is to call friends and boohoo about it to get some sympathy. And I thought of calling the cousin who introduced us. She lives near him, and would tell me all she knows, but I haven't done this. I'm keeping it to myself, I haven't told my friend next door.

I am struggling with old behaviours.

None of these inclinations are going to help me sort out my feelings about this.

Now here is where it gets jacked up. Sometimes I feel rejected. I know it is irrational, but I do. I wish I had shared with him more about myself, but I would not want that to affect any decision he makes toward this situation.

Pity and understanding are totally different, aren't they?

Bevdee

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