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Science Without Bounds - the new religion?
July 29, 2006
10:03 pm
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Seeker-thank you for your kind reply. u have shown yourself to be a man of character by not reacting to my not intentional but none the less personal jabs at u on this thread recently. Thank you for seeing that it wasn't really at u but a reaction to old wounds leaking out.

((((Seeker)))
and

(((Tez)))

July 31, 2006
12:52 pm
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Miss Guppy,

I see you say you are taking a break from this, but you might find these interesting.

Here is a good website for - Women in the bible

http://www.alabaster-jars.com/.....men-a.html

Also, look up Mithraism, here is one site http://www.suite101.com/articl.....748/106446

Bevdee

July 31, 2006
1:13 pm
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Hey Tez,

Perfect match? I like blue or green eyes. Shaggy or long light hair.Or red hair. Height or lack of it doesn't bother me, since I am short. Other than that, it is something I sense. When a man looks at me, I can just.... tell. I have never thought of this before, but maybe what I sense must be pain.

My mother has olive skin, brown hair and hazel eyes. Daddy is fair, blue eyes, and short. He has always had military haircuts, and now he is nearly bald. People have always told me I look like Beverly D'Angelo. Maybe - when the lights are low. A good friend of mine from high school, and her (female impersonator) cousin have called me BeverlyD for so long, I don't think her cousin even remembers my real name.

For me, the attraction is in the eyes. I like intelligence, cynicism, rebelliousness, nonconformity, smart-assedness. I can spot all this in a glance. I think this is odd, because I don't think these traits are in either of my parents, because !!!!!!!!!!!

In describing my perfect match I have described myself, physically and otherwise, above. ( My cousin? The one I told you about? Looks like me, thinks like me) Good grief, wtf does THIS mean?

I have yet another story - something I have never talked to anyone about.

I met a man a couple of years ago who lives about 30 miles north of me. At the time I had a computer. I contacted him through the personals. Because of his picture. He has longish dark blonde hair, and green eyes. Just looking at his eyes in the picture on the personals made me want him. We emailed quite a bit, then instant messaged. From this contact alone, I could tell I liked him. I knew how good it would be. The first time we met, we had planned to see a movie. That never happened. It was all we could do to get to a room. He was groping me in the lobby of the motel. I was dizzy afterward.

We emailed and IMd for ever!!! after that. Every evening he would *ping* me. A big turn-on for him was online pornication. (That's my word, I made that up). I became an online instant messaging pornicator. So did he, it fed our fantasies. I had just refused to do this with other men, but I did it with him. He called me most weeknights after his sons went to bed. Phonestuff. He was not able to meet me in person often because he had no babysitter for his young boys. ( their mother, a diagnosed? schizophrenic had died when the boys were 3 years old and 1 year old. She was hit by a car, crossing a highway on foot, trying to escape from a mental hospital.)

We talked about alot of things other than sex. His childhood was very like mine. Abusive father, sweet ineffective mother. He saw a brother shoot himself. There is another brother that lives on his property that is addicted to crack. He worried constantly about the affect of seeing that would have on his sons. I felt that we were similar in that we had both risen above the legacy of mental illness and addictions we were born to, and were at least "functional".

He was so much like me. He doesn't buy into conventional religion. He refuses to subject his children to that indoctrination. He had the same passive fuckit attitude about alot of things that I had, and I know where that comes from. Except when it came to his sons, or animals. I visited his home once, and there were animals everywhere, dogs, cats, and two goats!! He can't turn away strays. He has the same Native American ancestry I do, so we did some research and found we have mutual ancestors, from a couple hundred years ago. ( I think this made us 23rd cousins or something - shit there's that incest thing again) I liked that too. Family.

He was cynical , smart, funny, perverted and sweet. I really liked him. I think I was in love with him. I obsessed about him.

Every time we were together it was incredible. He was gentle and tireless. (after the abuse, gentle is really important to me. I can't even stand a slap on the ass) He knew instinctively what I liked and needed. And I instinctively knew him. I stayed hooked into him for a year. If I think about the sex we had, I am aroused. If I remember his eyes, I am aroused.

My doctor's office is in the town where he lives. Any time I visited the clinic there, I always stopped on my way home at the casino on the highway, to lose $20. - or $40. I have seen him there several times, and to this day I can't believe I did this, but every time we would see each other we would just go to his truck and do whatever we could get away with doing, in daylight or twilight. I shudder now to think we might have been busted, and I might have had an indecent exposure arrest, but when I saw him, I did not care. I had orgasms without any penetration. When I started seeing the man I date now, I quit seeing him, and I quit stopping by that casino after my drs visit. Because - I can't say for sure I wouldn't do the same things with him again. (I am really getting too old to be kneeling in the floor of a truck. My knees pop.) But that's not really it - every Friday evening, I have to fight the urge to drive up there, because I know what time he will be there, after he cashes his paycheck.

I have never acted that way with anyone, in public, or online. I am normally a very reserved public person. Sometimes he would start kissing me in the casino, and I let him!! He would slide his hand up the back of my shirt, and I never jerked away. I needed to feel his hand on my skin. Once, I hit a little $80 jackpot, he grabbed me and kissed me, and we just walked off leaving the claim ticket in the slot. I have never never gone for public displays of affection, but when I was with this man, I just didn't care what people saw or thought. I lost my reason and my manners. I shocked myself, and I know the shock turned me on too.

I don't know any woman that would admit to what I'm fixin to tell you. NO one has ever discussed this with me. Let me see if I can express this. When I was with him, I felt helpless and powerful at the same time. Helpless against my attraction and desire for him, and powerful at the evidence that he wanted me as much as I did him. I always waited for him to reach for me, and it was never long before he did. Sometimes on meeting, he wouldn't even speak before he started kissing me. I felt powerful when I was on my knees kneeling in a submissive position before him. ( Just the fact that I would kneel is amazing to me. I felt powerful when I felt his desire grow. I felt powerful when I made his knees go weak. I had orgasms before I got my clothes off. He loved it when I "begged him" for it. He told me to. I loved begging him for it. He got off telling me how where and what to do. I felt powerful when I obeyed? obliged him. (and no one EVER tells me what to do!!)This wasn't any type of bondage, though, please don't think that. I felt triumphant when he called my name when he ejaculated. I felt power when I could bring him to erection again, soon after a long session of lovemaking. It wasn't that I wanted control, I don't think. Maybe I did. I just wanted to know he wanted me as much as I want him. I needed proof, evidence.

I think this "pull" he felt for me surprised him. He REALLY didn't want to get involved with anyone again. There were times during sex that he would look at me and I would see something in his eyes. Surprise? Confusion? I can't name it.

(I have only felt desire like this with one other man, my cousin. Where my whole body flashes hot and cold, causing skin rushes, and I feel like I can't breathe. But we were more circumspect.)

He was so much like ME. He never misled me to think he wanted anything but sex and online contact. He made it very clear that he did not want a wife or steady girlfriend. I respected that, and never asked for more. Yet, had he asked me to move in with him, I would have, and cooked and cleaned for him and his family. I make at least double what he does, and I would have gladly pooled my money into that household. (Always against my better judgement, but judgement was not in my vocabulary when I thought of being with him)

He was not toxic to me, as far as I can tell. Unless his implicit rejection (of anything more than my sex) and my acceptance of it was toxic. But there again, as before, I yearned after someone that held me at arm's length, until he wanted sex.

I have changed since I got away from the abuser. I won't tolerate what I perceive as the slightest criticism, and I will never like rough sex. It still triggers fear in me. The criticism? From both parents.

Feel free to tell me what you think of all this, I promise I won't cry foul.

I see up there where you got Guppy and me confused. Don't worry, I am not "mad." I am welcoming the opportunity to .....delve. July 18th, I left a post on the Gnosis thread, about why dogma and religion trigger me. Since I had these realisations, I have felt really good. I don't feel as guilty or confused about it anymore. And what you said to Guppy on 7-29 about your church triggers - exactly! I feel the same way.

(But even if I had had a healthy family in the church, I would still feel the way I do about the bible's attitude toward women.)

But since I started acknowledging and accepting all my emotions surrounding church, community, approval, condititonal love from my daddy, I have felt...giddy. It is a huge weight lifted from me, from my heart. Also, the other emotions I have squooshed down, are working their way to the surface, and it is liberating me. I feel lighter, my shoulders and back are relaxing more an more each day, and I am laughing more. ( I think at times I am ..... happy?)

Now this ex-woman who has been bird-dogging you at the dances? Phone-stalking? She must have worked some strong mojo on that man, her current fiancee? to get him to approach you. Wow.

And good for your Joy for standing her ground. It must be kind of tough for you, though, to have your dancing, an activity you both enjoy, disrupted by this ex-woman. I have a question for you - Does your vision still blur when you see her?

I had read other posts, so I knew you are from Australia. I think about kangaroos. In my back yard there are armadillos and tarantulas. Tough critters. I wondered of Tez was short for Tasmanian devil.

Bevdee

July 31, 2006
1:40 pm
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Guppy,

I noticed the posts on submission!!

Words!! It is so easy for me to get confused or angry, especially when folks use words differently than I do.

From Wikipedia

"Obedience is behavior explicity demanded from authority. This differs from compliance, which is behavior influenced by peers. This is in turn different from conformity, which is behavior intended to match that of the majority.

Common forms of obedience include:
obedience to laws

obedience to a God

obedience to a dominant

obedience to self-imposed constraints, such as a vow of chastity

In Christian weddings, obedience was formerly included along with honor and love as part of a conventional bride's (but not the bridegroom's) wedding vow. This came under attack with women's suffrage and the feminist movement. Today its inclusion in the wedding vow has fallen out of favor.

Submission can refer to:
A religion practiced by United Submitters International

An object to hand in

A proposal for a presentation at an academic conference

Domination and submission, where it is opposite in meaning to dominance.

Submission is a Dutch film

Learned helplessness

A term for submitting in combat sports. Separate entry on submissions in professional wrestling

A colloquial term for a submission hold used in combat sports to submit an opponent.

A mail submission agent (in the sense of email). "

From Merriam-Webster

One entry found for submission.
Main Entry: sub·mis·sion
Pronunciation: s&b-'mi-sh&n

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin submission-, submissio act of lowering, from submittere

1 a : a legal agreement to submit to the decision of arbitrators b : an act of submitting something (as for consideration or inspection); also : something submitted (as a manuscript)

2 : the condition of being submissive , humble, or compliant

3 : an act of submitting to the authority or control of another

dominant
2 entries found for dominant.
Main Entry: 1dom·i·nant

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin dominant-, dominans, present participle of dominari

1 a : commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others b : very important, powerful, or successful

2 : overlooking and commanding from a superior position

3 : of, relating to, or exerting ecological or genetic dominance

4 : being the one of a pair of bodily structures that is the more effective or predominant in action (dominant eye) "

Doesn't that bible teach obedience and honoring the parents? If we ladies are to adhere to bible teachings, a good little christian daughter, then later good little wife would submit? (the church teaches wives submission to husbands). Eph 5:22 and Col 3:18. If she followed these teachings of submission and obedience of the Holy Bible and if we follow it literally, we really can't discern or differentiate between what is right and wrong, because the parents or the male spouse would have authority over a child or a woman. Especially if one followed the "judge not lest ye be judged". Mat 7:1, Luke 6:37 Sort of a conundrum for a faith-full little girl or woman trying to do "right" and obey the bible.

If we don't follow the bible literally, then we are in some other sort of violation? I can't remember the verse that instructs followers not to add to or take away from the word of god.

It might make a person see a paradox. Or feel angry. Kinda crazy-makin.

Bevdee

July 31, 2006
1:50 pm
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I sure am taking up a lot of space on here, aren't I?

Bevdee

July 31, 2006
3:07 pm
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hi Bevdee not at all, ofcourse not. People love coming back to the site and reading stuff from other people. If it wasnt for your posts Tez would have chewed up his keyboard with boredom. Its only your posts which keep Joy from making that weekly trip to the computer shop.

Well really ofcourse people like reading good stuff so keep it coming. Look at me, I make 10 times less useful and meaningful posts than you but I have 10 times less shame or whatever is the right word.

August 1, 2006
7:37 am
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BevDee.

Thanks for another great post. I loved it.

You asked:

"Does your vision still blur when you see her?"

I won't ever allow any eye contact with her whatsoever. If I have to talk to her I look at her forehead or mouth and say as little as possible. I will greet her with a "G'Day" if I have to and that's about it. I will never let her get me alone.

I can control my emotions very easily by observing certain rules. If I break my rules then I will have a rough time of it until I can settle my emotions down with some heavy nurturing.

About this truckie guy you said:

"I think I was in love with him. I obsessed about him."

It is this concept of being "in love with him" that I think is the "obsessive" pull of the template match.

You also said:

"He was not toxic to me, as far as I can tell."

In your case you may not have a toxic template match, like I do. IMHO, the forming of the template is a two way interaction in infancy and childhood. Even though you had poor parenting for various reasons this interaction may have resulted in a reasonably functional template formation in you. This tells me that you may very well be able to form a very functional loving relationship with a template match. I'm convinced that I cannot.

You said:

"I think this "pull" he felt for me surprised him. He REALLY didn't want to get involved with anyone again. There were times during sex that he would look at me and I would see something in his eyes. Surprise? Confusion?"

This woman, my ex, did the same thing. After multiple orgasms where the bed was wet all over, she muttered under her breath to herself: "I don't know why I feel like this?. This has never happened to me before?" I'm no bloody Don Juan or a great lover, I assure you. When templates match, the minds seem to communicate at an unconscious level. Inexplicably I found myself knowing exactly what I had to do to put her into ecstacy. This woman has been married three times, engaged 5 times, had heaps of guys and controlled them all. She couldn't understand why she was experiencing what she was and why I wouldn't seccumb to her will as did so many others. I was very different. She was very confused and obsessing. When she went to the ladies room at a dance, I danced with an attractive woman. When she came back and saw me innocently dancing with this other woman as she did with other men, she went off the head completely with her eyes blazing. I felt great fear realizing that I was looking into my mother's eyes! She grabbed my skin and twisted it as hard as she could raising a welt that took a couple of days to go away. I then knew I was a template match for her as well as she for me. But understanding my template and how my psyche worked in this regard, I had the strength of will to get away and stay away from her.

For people like me, the closer the match the stronger the obsessing and the greater the pain of separation. In my case I was addicted to my first template match. It took me years to get over it. The second, the above woman, was not so bad because of my prior knowledge and experience. But I don't underestimate the danger that I'm in when she's around. If she got me alone and started 'pashing' me and grabbing my dick, I doubt that I would have the mental strength to override my emotions. I think that I would be just like you in this regard. I think that while you might get away with it, I would not. My head would create hell on earth for me. I won't ever let it happen - not while my arse points to the ground.

When do you see your mom?

August 2, 2006
12:06 pm
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Tez,
Thank you for your response Aug 1, 2006.

I saw my mom last week - I left a post about that visit Fri 7-28. I posted two that day, that's probably why you missed it. It went - pretty good.

I don't have much time today, because I need to finish my work and get home early. Yesterday my tiny, 5lb chihuahua was hit by the wheel of a car. I didn't think he was going to make it, but the little braveheart is already walking, and trying to jump! up into the little basket he normally sleeps in. He has a huge egg on his head, and his poor little face swelled up from the antibiotics and/or steroids the vet gave him. He is very dizzy, and lists to the right. I will cage him unless I am home, because he crashes into things. It has been a rough going for him,and for me, too.

Now what does truckie mean? Man with a truck?

You said "But I don't underestimate the danger that I'm in when she's around. If she got me alone and started 'pashing' me and grabbing my dick, I doubt that I would have the mental strength to override my emotions. I think that I would be just like you in this regard. I think that while you might get away with it, I would not. My head would create hell on earth for me. I won't ever let it happen - not while my arse points to the ground."

As for this, I am glad the "truckie" guy doesn't go out much, reducing the possibility of me seeing him. As I said, I know where to find him, I just fight the urge. I really can't imagine him grabbing at me or walking up to me and kissing me if I were with another man. That is just askin for a fight. However, I would hate for my man I am dating now to see the effect he has on me.

And you said, "In your case you may not have a toxic template match, like I do. IMHO, the forming of the template is a two way interaction in infancy and childhood. Even though you had poor parenting for various reasons this interaction may have resulted in a reasonably functional template formation in you. This tells me that you may very well be able to form a very functional loving relationship with a template match. I'm convinced that I cannot."

I think there is some toxicity in my template, or the relationship I had with the abuser would never have continued after the first blow. There is in my template the "excuse -making" I did for 4 years. Also, the anger I had. In one of those letters-I-never-sent to my mother, I said --it is no wonder I picked a man who was so much like you, and it is no wonder you hated him. He took from you what you did to me --

But - there was a big shift in me when I left the abuser. I went 4 years without dating, or even having sex, because I was terrified of making that mistake again, I did not trust myself. I read tons of books, and saw a therapist, and thought. And thought. So my first foray back into dating/sex, was my cousin, and I knew he would not lay a hand on me. I have never had that fear since, because if I sense that in a person, I get away fast. I trust my instinct, and if it is wrong, I will never know, because I am long gone.

Also, I have chosen to spend time with a man who is not critical, and keeps his judgements to himself. He asked me when he met me if I went to church. Not going to church was a criterion for him!!! HIs feelings are similar to mine. He is just different than anyone I have ever dated and I am learning from it. I curb my old patterns with him. It's kind of an endeavor to do this , do you know what I mean? It is certainly not effortless.

For instance, He is not intimidated by my anger, he does not react emotionally to it, but he will call me on it. Yesterday I decided not to leave the dog at the vet overnight, because there is no overnight coverage to watch the animals. When I found this out, I decided to go get the little dog. Because- head injury victimes often vomit, and if no one was there to help him, my dog might have choked on it, and died. I called the vet office to tell them I was coming back at the end of the day. My "feelings" were hurt by what I perceived to be an uncaring attitude by the young man who answered the phone. My bf was with me and when I got angry at the phone call, he asked me what was wrong. I was stomping and cussing, and accusing the VET of not caring about my dog.

Then I stopped. I looked at him, and said, "I guess it is easier to be angry than sad." He looked at me and said you'd rather cuss than cry? I told him it was just easier. He offered to drive so I could cry on the 30 mile drive up there. This is what we did, he drove, I cried. I had never allowed myself to cry in front of him. He did notoffer false comfort, by telling me it would be alright( we didn't know that) or cheer me out of it. He did not invalidate my feelings and and my need to cry.

Later I thought about this. It IS easier to let anger feed me/fuel me than sadness. Or to turn the sadness into anger.

Anger is also a more socially acceptable face, isn't it? And it is easier to react to anger than sorrow when confronted with it. I am speaking for myself, of course, and my observations in dealing with people in the medical profession. I was on the other side of the fence yesterday, albeit the veterinary side.

Talk to you later,

Bevdee

(By the way, I was RIGHT to take my little dog home last night, because he threw up twice in the night, and was so weak from the pain meds they gave him, I had to help him so he didn't aspirate. I LOVE to be right, but I am more glad my judgement saved the little guys life.)

August 2, 2006
12:10 pm
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G_
From 7/31/06

"Well really ofcourse people like reading good stuff so keep it coming. Look at me, I make 10 times less useful and meaningful posts than you but I have 10 times less shame or whatever is the right word."

It's not shame. Angst? Regret? Maybe bewilderment in retrospect.

Go easy G_,

Bevdee

August 2, 2006
2:07 pm
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Maybe all of those including feeling crappy and bottled up and not knowing my thoughts and feelings. ahh. Anyway I was more being silly than being serious, but thanks.

But yea today is a bad day, didnt sleep. Ahhh.

August 2, 2006
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Hi Bevdee.

Thanks for yet another interesting post. I'm very sorry to hear about your little pet's pain and suffering.

About your ex-bf you said:

"I really can't imagine him grabbing at me or walking up to me and kissing me if I were with another man. That is just askin for a fight. However, I would hate for my man I am dating now to see the effect he has on me."

I know what you mean.

The second template match that is presently causing me problems, is extremely sneaky. If she thought no one was watching she is highly likely to do the things that I said in my post. The only thing that would stop her in that case would be fear of rejection yet again. She would be highly likely to approach her highly sophistocated seduction in small steps. I doubt that I could resist her advances once she had hold of my hand. A brick wall between her and myself is my best defence. My blind and dumb emotions are my worst enemies unless I take good care of them. They are listening as I write. 🙂

Women seem to me to be less fearful of a 'smack in the gob' from another woman than men are from copping a 'bunch of fives' from another fella. I often see women getting up on Dr Phil's show admitting in front of everyone that they are having it off with someone else's husband. I don't see too many men doing that. This ex of mine fear's my partner, Joy, yet she thinks nothing of sneaking around behind her back. She is an unashamed 'prick teaser' who wants all men chasing her. She is the most accomplished seductress that I have ever seen. No man who she gets in her sights, except me, seems to be able to resist her. However when she made her moves before I went with her, I was in her bed before I knew it. For reasons of the template match that I present to her and my refusal to even look at her seems to have her obsessing over me. When I'm around, she incessantly watches every move I make, with eyes that speak volumes. My partner is onto her like a hawk. It has become a war of wills between the two of them. Every time my my partner catches this ex watching me she glares at her and the ex quickly looks away. This goes on all night at the dances. It is harrowing and isn't healthy. My partner is a very nice person, very faithful and trustworthy -just the opposite to this 'other woman' - not a template match at all. As far as I'm concerned it is a no contest. I can't see what else that I can do but what I've done and continuing to maintain complete isolation between this ex and I. But my partner insists on not avoiding the dances where this ex goes. After a recent snub that I gave this ex I'm hoping that things quieten down. If she wasn't a template I wouldn't be so concerned. I get emotionally upset every time I snub her - that is my problem. I'm dammed if I do and dammed if I don't.

And you also said:

"I think there is some toxicity in my template, or the relationship I had with the abuser would never have continued after the first blow. There is in my template the "excuse -making" I did for 4 years. Also, the anger I template had. In one of those letters-I-never-sent to my mother, I said --it is no wonder I picked a man who was so much like you, and it is no wonder you hated him. He took from you what you did to me --"

That's interesting. You unconsciously knew that this guy was like your mother? One would tend to think that he must have been at least a partial template match.

With my first template match, when I took her to meet my mom it was 'hate at first sight' for both of them. Behind her back, my mother called her the black widow spider. When together they both pretended to like each other. My mother instantly disliked her for seemingly no apparent reason. Of course my mother, being very much like her, saw her own self in this woman and instantly hated her for it. My mother died before I even met my second template match.

You also said:

"I curb my old patterns with him. It's kind of an endeavor to do this , do you know what I mean? It is certainly not effortless."

I know what you mean. We humans tend to develop what the psychologists call dominant emotional responses. It is not easy to exert cognitive control over these responses invoking a different emotional response instead. For example if I get caught for speeding my normal dominant response of anger to a situation is easily overcome by a more dominant response of acquiescence and appeasement in the face of a more powerful adversary. However, if someone that I perceive to be far less powerful that I upsets my, e.g. my partner, I easily fly off the handle unless I go quickly to work on my screaming emotions. These days I don't lose that control often. But it still happens now and then. Usually I quickly recover, admit my problem and I sort things out without delay.

You said:

"It IS easier to let anger feed me/fuel me than sadness. Or to turn the sadness into anger."

Yes this is my experience also. I think the reason is that anger is often used as a means of controlling others; it is a powerful motivator. As children many learnt from dysfunctional parents that anger often forces other people to do what they wanted. Anger is the emotion preceding and accompanying a 'fight' response to a perceived threat of some kind or other. It is also useful in feigning a fight response to frighten others into submission or retreat. It is one of many control mechanisms.

Sadness on the other hand is the emotion accompanying an immobilization response to a powerful threat; that is, when we are caught up and feel beaten. If I feel that I have absolutely no control over and cannot change a situation, that is I feel powerless, I tend to feel sad, beaten and depressed.

I think that sadness is harder to deal with because of this feeling of powerlessness. In your case you were powerless over the accident itself after it happened - that made you sad. But you were not powerless over the vet's indifferent response to your dog's needs. Anger motivated you to change either the vet's attitude or to change your dog's situation whichever way the vet wanted to play it. Anger empowers, sadness is disempowering. Sadness is an emotion often associated with grief; in this case grief over your dog's pain. That's my take on this sad but extremely thought provoking situation.

This current man of yours seems to me to be a very insightful fellow. I bet he was well parented as a child and is highly intelligent - whether he is educated or not. Am I right here?

August 3, 2006
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Tez

Good to hear from you,

Thank you for your response concerning my little brave dog. He is going to make it. He is walking, running when he can, crookedly, because he is still dizzy. A little fighter!! I won't know for a few days how much neurological damage he will have, if any.

And thank you for "That's interesting. You unconsciously knew that this guy was like your mother? One would tend to think that he must have been at least a partial template match."

I might have subconsciously known, but I never allowed my self to acknowledge the similarities between him and my mother - until after I left him, and I was in therapy. It was then that I allowed my anger at her to surface.

Template match? Yes, there was a great attraction between us. When we met in a bar, I was just celebrating my 21st b-day. We had incredible sex. Believe it or not, I was really inexperienced. I thought the sun rose and set on him, because I was having such orgasms!! He was married when I met him, and after a year, when he would not divorce, I left. The state. To put the distance between us.

I just remembered something. During the orgasms I had with him, I cried. They brought tears.

I hate to remember the "good sex". Or anything good about him. If anyone really needed to know something good about him, they would have to drag it out of me. I have spent 10 years hating him. Maybe it's time to let Luc to go in peace. I am afraid carrying this anger around is aging me. Tiring me.

In those 8 years apart, there were times that I would awaken in the middle of the night and lie there thinking of him, and the phone would ring. I was convinced we had this rare psychic connection. The beliefs about this that I held dear were a barrier I placed between myself and any relationship I might have had in that time away from him. Pretty jacked up, huh?

When I returned, 8 years later, he heard I was back, contacted me, said he was divorced, and we were off and running with it again. I was ecstatic - until the first time he hit me.

That pre-abuse sex was fantastic, because I had yearned for him for so long. After the abuse started, I did not want him. I told him to leave, and he wouldn't. I was scared to force the issue, afraid of what he would do, so guess what I did? I would draw from my memories, and try to remember how I had felt when I "loved" him.

To conjure up that feeling.

He and my mother had an odd relationship. Sometimes he and Mom would sit and talk trash about me in front of me. Sometimes she would pelt him with subtle put-downs. Sometimes he would just pop over and visit with her and her husband. He always showed her utmost respect.

You said - "This current man of yours seems to me to be a very insightful fellow. I bet he was well parented as a child and is highly intelligent - whether he is educated or not. Am I right here?"

Yes, his parents are still alive and married to each other. He seems to have a good relationship with them. I am not sure if he went to college. He was in the army and he has made alot of money in rodeos and stuff, and owned his own business. At 45, he is retired, raises horses and cattle, and does the hay hauling because in his words, " the money is just too damn good to turn down" It's big business down here. Lots of cattle raising.

He is very intelligent and perceptive. He doesn't seem to let things affect him the way I do. His circuitry is different.

Here's what I think. In the abuser I had a horribly toxic template match, taking years to heal from that relationship. Since then, I have had 3 major relationships. ( I am including the one I am in currently) I am talking about the other 2. Cousin and truckie guy.

Both were (partial?) template matches, but I don't feel they were damaging to me. Psychically. My soul. Both these men were very much like me. They had many of the same early experiences that I did. That's why I picked them. Intelligent, sensitive, family oriented. They did not "need" or want to try to destroy me. Nor me them.

I am remembering one evening,( after I left Lucifer), my mother and I were arguing over the phone. Upset, I hung up on her, and picked up some sewing I had been doing. I would not cry. I tried to thread a needle, and in doing this, unconsciously (as if watching from above) wrapped the thread around my finger and pulled. I watched my finger turn blue, and I remember thinking, I am hurting myself. I let go the thread, and sat and thought about that. I was so upset, I (involuntarily, unknowingly?) inflicted pain on myself.

I decided to be abused no more.

I made some progress, with the time in therapy, in the ways that I learned to filter toxic people. ( I have never allowed myself to be physically abused, and I will not let people emotionally abuse me.) But it was just too painful to go deeper and start to try loving myself. Easier to be angry.

In shielding myself from this raw hurt, I submerged it. It kept coming back.

These 2 men? were just....unavailable past a certain point. I am asking myself if this mirrored my own unavailability to myself, my own inability to love myself? They probably gave as much love as I could or did. If I am going to be honest I will admit they gave as good as they got. I wasn't fooled or duped or taken advantage of.

I have also asked myself if the casino (truckie) guy had suddenly decided and told me he couldn't live without me, wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, what on earth would I have done? That would have scared the s**t outta me.

I don't want anyone obsessing about me, the way I did him. I scared myself at times. Anyone that would do that toward me would scare me. Lucifer did that, and look where that led.

Oh, Tez!! The more I hear about your Joy, the more I like her!! Please tell her if the glaring isn't effective, I can send y'all a can of Texas Whoop-Ass.

Because I am so good at seeing other people's problems, not my own. I can offer an opinion about this sneaky ballroom gal. Do you remember how I described the feeling of power I felt with the casino guy? Your rejection of her is shaking the foundation of her perceived power base. It is scaring her.

Did you read my first post from 7-28? About my visit with my mom?

Bevdee

August 3, 2006
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On letting go of Luc and anger? I don't know how I can!! This anger at the abuser has been here for the 4 years I lived in it, and 10 years since I left. I tell myself how well I have done, but if something happens to remind me of him-- there it is. In my face.

I told you about my current living situation, and the way my friend's husband triggers me, because of the similarities in him and Lucifer. I have been angry alot in the last 8 months.

Here is an example. Last night, my friend/roommate's mother died. The call came at 1 in the morning. The first call came from her brother, telling her to go to the hospital as her mother was in the ER and they were trying to revive her. (She had some chronic conditions, and this was not totally unexpected) My friend was racing around trying to get her belongings together for the 2 hour drive, and possible stay. She herself is diabetic and asthmatic. Her husband was just staring into space. He does not like her parents or anyone, for that matter, that she might love or might love her and offer her support. She stopped pacing and told him she would need him to drive her up there. He told her he didn't think he could, because he was sick. To demonstrate, he leaned over the kitchen sink, retched and spit.

When the 2nd call came from the hospital, 30 minutes later, to tell her her mother had passed, he never reached out to her, even when she sank to her knees and sobbed on the floor, her hair falling in the dog's waterbowl. I went to her and held her while he watched. I helped her get her belongings together. He stared at us for the hour it took her to compose herself to drive there. He never once reached to her, his wife, or offered her any comfort. When I held her, sobbing, she screamed, "MY MAMA DIED ALONE". He spoke then, to tell her he would not drive her since he had to work the next day.

I am horrified and numb when I think of this.

This is classic Lucifer. When my granddad died, because of my grief, he took that opportunity to leave on a 3 day bender. I was too preoccupied with my family and didn't have time or inclination to try to find him or my other car. Also classic of him was that I was never allowed to be sick or cry. There was to be no time off from the ornerous, thankless jop of being his caregiver/mother/support.

I don't want to move while I am still in school, and I hate to leave her in the situation that she is in, so I am trying to acquire observing - not reacting skills. Sometimes I sit and observe and remember while these not-original scenarios re-enact for me. I cannot tell you how it strains me not to react and jump into the middle of things, because for the life of me I can't understand how a hman being can be so callous. I cannot f**king conceive of not reaching out to a human being in such pain.

I really loved her mama.

I have had a rough week.

Bevdee

August 3, 2006
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Bevdee.

I'm sorry to hear about your rough week. I sincerely hope I don't make it any worse.

You said:

"In those 8 years apart, there were times that I would awaken in the middle of the night and lie there thinking of him, and the phone would ring. I was convinced we had this rare psychic connection. The beliefs about this that I held dear were a barrier I placed between myself and any relationship I might have had in that time away from him. Pretty jacked up, huh?"

No - not jacked up at all. I believe that this "psychic connection" that you had was very real indeed dispite what Guest_guest might say.

It is my firm belief that we communicate with both loved ones AND those we hate at a telepathic but unconscious level to orchestrate and maintain the 'game' that we are playing. I have ample circumstantial evidence to support this belief of mine.

With my first template matching ex, (I'll call her 'stinky')after I broke up with her, I used to keep running into her all over the place in crowded shopping centres where the probability of these recurrrent encounters happening would be microscopically small. Then one night I had a dream wherein 'stinky' and her mother were in my car arguing with me over something. In my dream, I stopped the car opened the passenger side door and pushed 'stinky' out with my foot. Her mom got out too. After that I never ran into her again for years. I earnestly believe that we were arranging these encounters unconsciously and telepathically. However the ultimate breaking up was done in my sleep! When I first saw Stinky it was at a dance. Ours eyes met while she was sitting down and I was dancing with another woman. I immediately thought: "This person is going to be my girlfriend." It wasn't wishful thinking - I just KNEW it for a fact. I won her straight away - that day. She came to me within minutes without hesitation - and I ain't no Mel Gibson. We were in bed together within a week. Then the 'fun' started. Toxicity everywhere!! I went with Stinky for 18 months, breaking it off and going back on a fortnightly basis. I nearly went mad. This was nearly 20 years ago now but I still think about her now and then but never see her. My mother, Stinky and Sneaky are like three peas in a pod with very little differences.

And about your current bf, you said:

"He is very intelligent and perceptive. He doesn't seem to let things affect him the way I do. His circuitry is different."

Yes I would agree - his amygdala is programmed differently to yours and mine. This is a key point that you might or might not see so readily right away. The amygdala is the centre of our emotions. It is often triggered directly from our sense organs as well as directly and indirectly from our cortex as a result of our thinking. A large component of the template resides in the amygdala. Thus the visual image of, the sound of, the touch of, the smell of etc of our template match triggers off these powerful emotional reactions. The amygdala, once triggered by a template match, also sets in motion powerful urges to connect physically with them stitching us into the trap. Once we undergo full template recognition we become obsessive about being with our template match. The beauty of understanding our own template characteristics is that we can make conscious choices to avoid such people who strongly match them. As a bonus we can reduce our pain levels after breaking up with a template match by realizing the importance of self-nurture. Otherwise we will keep running back like I did with Stinky and Guest_guest seems to do with his Cutie-Pie On the Diary of Guest_guest Thread - though I'm not up with Guest_guest's latest situation there.

And you said:

"I watched my finger turn blue, and I remember thinking, I am hurting myself. I let go the thread, and sat and thought about that. I was so upset, I (involuntarily, unknowingly?) inflicted pain on myself."

I think that I can understand this behavior. When we were infants we could not accept that the person on whom we relied completely for our survival, our mom, could be at fault or flawed in any way. As an infant or small dependent child, to think that our very source of life was in some was defective was horrifying. Thus if mom or dad was angry with us it had to be our fault. We couldn't stand the thought that they were the problem. So we choose to believe that we are at fault, unlovable etc and deserve to be punished. Inflicting punishment upon ourselves, that is in making retribution for our unknown faults, we somehow seems to remove the threat of abandonment by our parents.

This, I believe, is why some teenagers cut themselves. This, I also believe, is why some children self-abuse, abuse their siblings, their pets, insects and any less powerful beings than themselves. I believe that in their denial of parental flaws, they shift the blame from their parents onto themselves and others. Of course I'm not talking about all children. I believe that at an early age I learnt to hate my mother and everyone else including myself. I blamed everyone including myself. I still have trouble justifying spending money upon myself except for what I perceive to be the absolute necessities of life.

Thus I secretly hate Sneaky and Stinky and always did almost from first sight. Yet I powerfully craved physical connectedness to both of them by cuddling and in sexual union. Both used the witholding of supply of both in very manipulative ways; yet always ensuring that their own needs were met as and when required or look out!

I'm not a physical abuser nor ever have been. However, when with a template match I can be a psychological and emotional abuser, if and when I feel abused. I have to watch that. Since Joy is definitely not a template match at all, I don't have that urge with her nor does she abuse me in any way. I have to be very careful not to wallow in and enjoy Sneaky's present pain. It will destroy me if I do so on a prolonged basis.

I will tell you something here that is disgusting and sick but highly relevant to this discussion. When I am having sex with a template match, my sexual highs come from both the control I have over their bodies and the imagined abuse I am dishing out. I imagine that I am f..king a pig. I'm NOT into beastiality at all! But in my mind I think "cop this you pig" as I drive my ... home with agression rather than love. This is not how it is when I am having sex with non template women.

I mention the above because whilst I have never ever tried to rape anyone or physically abuse them in any way, I can clearly see why many men who are more damaged than I am in this regard go on to rape and sexually abuse women terribly. I believe it is unconscious payback for mom. I'm led to believe that rapists often stalk and carefully select their victims leaving many women to go past before selecting the right target. I explain this to myself by theorizing that they unconsciously go after the best template match of mom that they can find. Of course severely disturbed rapists will probably rape any woman out of the desperate need to punish mom. I'd like to add at this juncture that I am not in any way blaming the women victims nor am I suggesting in any way that the blame for rape can be laid at the feet of the perps' mothers. Nor am I excusing the rapist for his behavior. What I am saying is: "But for the grace of ... there go I" - had I a slightly more abusive and dysfunctional childhood.

This might help just a little in understanding (but not excusing in any way) your Luc's sexually and physically abusive behavior.

You also said:

"I cannot f**king conceive of not reaching out to a human being in such pain."

If this guy was so fucked up in his childhood in his relationship with his mother/father that he resolved to wall his own emotions up, he would most probably be incapable of feeling any empathy for another, especially a woman. Infact he would probably feel contempt for anyone letting go of and feeling their emotions to the full. He may even be frightened by such lack of restraint in his woman/mom, seeing it as 'mom's' inability to look after him or to concentrate upon his needs! Such total selfcentredness, I think, is born and bred in the deprivation of love in infancy and childhood. Again I'm not excusing his behavior either. My intentions are to try to diffuse some of your anger because of the suffering that it is causing you. I feel genuine compassion for you and your girl friend. Being a guy I naturally wanna fix it! If I was a woman I would probably say to you: "The bastard. Oh I am so sorry. I wish I could take your pain away. Come here and have a big hug." If I was there I would probably say and do that anyway. But in the long term in order to dissipate anger I think it helps to see that the 'perp' is very often, if not always, a 'victim' in a very good disguise.

And you pointed out your very important template characteristic when you said:

"These 2 men? were just....unavailable past a certain point."

Yes and your Luc(ifer) was also unavailable when you first had him? This makes 3 unavailable template matches. It was only after 8 years and you got with him again did the abuse start? Since abuse played no part in your relationships with your cousin and your truckie template matches nor in your heightened sexual activities with Luc in the early good times, I suspect that abuse of any kind is not a characteristic of your ideal template match. In mine psychological and emotional abuse is very strongly featured. That is why I believe my template match is toxic. However, since all three of your strong template matches were in some way unavailable, partner unavailability appears to be a powerful component in yours. This feature of your template matches would certainly arbitrate against happy relationships with your template matches.

If I am right and abuse is not in your template then the likelihood of getting another abusive guy is slim. If you know that your current bf's parents are loving people then I doubt that he will turn abusive if you emotionally commit yourself to him. I could be wrong but I doubt it!

You also said:

"Do you remember how I described the feeling of power I felt with the casino guy? Your rejection of her is shaking the foundation of her perceived power base. It is scaring her."

Yes - I wholeheartedly agree. I think that Sneaky has incorporated a psychological and physical image of her father as well as her mother into her template. I believe that I match her template. Her mother hated her and both physically and psychologically abused her all her young life. Her father was a nice guy. She was the apple of his eye, his 'beautiful little princess'. Apparently he used to stick up for her and try to protect her from her mother. So her mother resented her all the more. Being single and pregnant with Sneaky, her mother 'had to get married' blaming her for the subsequent loveless marriage. To survive Sneaky manipulated her father, secretly vying for his affections and support therein 'stealing' his love away from her mother. Thus a psychologically deadly game of taking dad away from mom ensued. Sneaky learnt her skills very early and well. So you can see why and how Ms Sneaky re-enacts this game much later in adult life with men of significance around her. Her father up and died when she was young; thus the abandonment by both her loving father and her hateful mother. By breaking it off with her(abandoning her), I have only increased the strength of her template match. Thus to her unconscious, I am now the abandoning mother/father who 'hated her' and 'died' respectively. So she craves my love just as she did her mother's/father's and at the same time she resents me like hell for abandoning her. She is applying the same sneaky techniques that she developed so well in her childhood going behind her mother's back to win her father away from her mother. Only now I am that father/mother and Joy is partially her mother. She has always pretended to be friends with Joy ever since we first met. Joy has always hated her from day one. I suspect that Sneaky was instrumental in the breakup that I had with Joy - but I'm unsure. About 2+ years ago, Joy and I broke up for about 8 months and then got back together again. It was during this 8 months that she swooped in for the 'kill'. How much she was involved in the breakup I do not know. I suspect that her flirting, which she denies, caused my template cravings to rear up making me dissatisfied with my relationship with Joy. That dissatisfaction led to many other unresolved issues flaring up that ultimate led to the breakup. During this 8 months I went with her for about 4 months all told. Of course I got out as soon as I realized that she was a toxic template match. After 4 mths on the single dance scene with lots of brief skirmishes with desperate and emotionally damaged females, I was heartly sick of the whole scene. I made contact with Joy via email offering to give our relationship another go and much to my surprise she came back in an instant. Things have been going fairly well ever since. I had to give Joy my assurances that I would not even talk to Sneaky. Since I wanted no part of Sneaky anyway and had told her so in no uncertain terms, that was easy. However Sneaky doesn't like losing 'dad to mom' and she is determined to both punish and get me chasing her no matter what!!! Her power base has been severely curtailed and she hates it. Sneaky plays this game with all her exs but because they come running sniffing after her ... she is contented having them on a string at arm's length. But my strength in maintaining my complete rejection of her is driving her crazy! Driving Sneaky crazy, is not my objective but is an unfortunate by-product of the measures that I have taken to protect both myself and my relationship with Joy. When Sneaky is around at dances, I have to constantly remind myself of the repercussions if I so much as lower my guard for a second.

Phew! I sure have ranted on about myself here. I don't normally do that. See how you've got me to open up?

I think that it is a good thing to do that in the anonymity that exists here.

Thanks Site Co-ordinator for providing this valuable site.

August 4, 2006
1:31 am
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Tez- i think i get what u were saying by telling me about u and joy continueing to go to the dances even though u have a woman there stalking me mentally and physically. as long as i continue to remove myself from situations where those kind of people are, then i am letting them win, so to speak. right?

to truelly arrive, then i should be able to attend anything i wish and not let them bother me. (i am talking about my dad and stbx)as long as i continue to react to their presence then i am handing my personal power over to them. this is victom mentality and i am not a child anymore. time to grow up.

then i will have self empowered myself. right? 🙂

you are very smart. thank you for giving me your example. i had to think about it for awhile. (what u were trying to tell me)

have a good day.

August 4, 2006
1:36 am
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i meant to say stalking u (not me)

August 4, 2006
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Guppy.

Thanks for your post.

I'm trying not to think in terms of winning and losing. I'd love to come up with a way of handling a delicate situation in which I find myself so that everyone wins. But that cannot be.

I think that I might have exaggerated a little using the word 'stalking'. I am still highly attracted to this sneaky woman. It is myself that I fear most. My emotions are very powerful and will lead me into Sneaky's pants if I'm not extremely vigilant.

Sneaky's greatest ally is my emotions and she knows it! She knows that if she can get me alone in the dark, I'm hers. All she has to do then is to let it get bach to my partner Joy what I did with her. And she is highly likely to do that in a very sneaky way that makes me the villian and instigator and her the inocent victim of my advances.

Since I cannot effectively avoid Sneaky, controlling my emotions in her presence is the key to my defence. To do that I have to avoid the emotional triggers. That means not eyeballing her, not touching her, not letting her touch me, not talking to her other than basic greetings in public.

You said:

"(i am talking about my dad and stbx)as long as i continue to react to their presence then i am handing my personal power over to them. this is victom mentality and i am not a child anymore. time to grow up.

then i will have self empowered myself. right? 🙂 "

Yes, but your emotions will tend to rule you unless you can sooth and nurture them - that isn't easy in the presence of strong stimuli like your "dad and stbx". Is your dad still triggering your emotions when you are in his presence? If so how? Or are you talking about authoritive religious father figures in your life pushing your buttons?

Who or what is stbx?

August 4, 2006
10:05 am
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Tez I'm reading all your posts to find your weak spots. Ok just kidding, I really have better things to do, heeee.

My latest with that girl is, we havent talked and I dont want to. OMW said the right thing, I have to stop resisting my feelings. Its the best to acknowledge that I like of her but then I have to tell myself she's not good for me. Its the same - not resisting our authentic self is the key to resolving emotional constipation. I'm moving on or trying to. Somedays are harder when I cant help thinking about her but I think I've learned a lot.

I think you're not over Stinky yet. Avoid her. It doesnt make sense for you to put yourself in a situation where you could touch her. Go to a differen ballroom floor and avoid her?

>> It is myself that I fear most. My emotions are very powerful << Well then this isnt the best state of mind obviously to be in. If I sense myself to be in a state where I fear myself, I know I'm weak. I'm not there yet. I'm not strong. I have to have confidence in myself that I'll be able to resist her no matter WHAT. Even if we are alone. Thats the confidence you want too. Think about how great you'd feel about yourself if you were able to resist her even if you were alone and she tried something. Isnt that right? We have to be masters of ourselves in any situation. There are hard days. This girl is still in the back or front of my head almost constantly, but I know I have to get over this. With time I will, I hope. So come on, get over Stinky. Oh look even after you die, you and Stinky's conciousness might flirt with each other. Maybe we might see some Northern lights over Sydney eh? How does that make you feel. Oooh. And then its gonna be harder for you to get away from her becuase she'll be all over sydney whenever she wants to.

August 4, 2006
10:10 am
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100 years from now, Tez and Stinky's conciousness might have an affair and we might see little conciousness babies running around all over Australia's skies. Uh oh. Use the invisible mystical condoms or the Bhuddist birth control pill or the Santi Dharma morning-after pills.

August 4, 2006
10:30 am
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guest-how did sneaky get to be stinky in your posts?

August 4, 2006
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tez-my dad is very charming at times. he can come across so nice and fun. hard not to fall for it. then the next thing i know he is drinking and telling me what a lump of not fun i am. have a drink.loosen up . get over myself. he keeps on and on and on and on. he goes to the same church i used to go to. he plays so well. he comes across like this fantastic person anybody should be proud to be around. all acts. i know the side to him he doesn't show. It is like he is two different people. the decent one he flashed when it suits him. (the one i used to deperately want to believe he really was) and then there is the side to him, that sneaks off when he can to solicit prostitutes, and does quite a few other things when he can get away with it. stbx. stands for soon to be ex. husband. my husband had the same personality as my dad. he can come across so good, so sweet, so innocent to people he doesn't know well. it got to be where i would sit there and watch him and think (damn he is good!!! he is a better acter than i am at being real) the part neither ever showed to the public is their abusive ways. their hatefulness, selfiousness, self-centeredness, their sense of entitlement that gags me when i think about it. it is the duplicity of these two men that i absolutely hate and pretty much anybody like them. They pretend to be so good, but in reality they have the morals of a piece of flotsam floating in the gutter. they just demand that everybody else around them be really really good because it makes their act look more believable. (i think) and they both believe that the rules of life were invented for everybody else to serve them well. it never dawns on either one of them that these very same rules should ever apply to them. imho. the problme i have if i ever hang around my dad is the craziness of his make believe world he insists on staying in. (i am devorcing my h. so that doesn't bother me at this time) it is the pull of him insisting i see his reality and confusing it in my head from the reality i really see. the two don't jive together. my dad doesn't want to hear my truth. he wants me to play in his make believe stuff. one of which i refuse to do anymore. i had got where i started saying stuff to him constantly. correcting his wacky way of thinking. Like everytime he would get on his soapbox and say how he was a super father and was always there for us, i would immediately correct him and tell him. nope, dad, you were a drunk and stayed gone all the time. u were not a very good father to me. and i moved away from you at thirteen. since then you have not been any kind of father to me. i could go into great detail with this but i can tell he will not admit it even to himself. he continues to see things like he wants them to have been. and i refuse to pretend anymore. i have not seen him in about six or so weeks because i am not going to go to his house to cater to his drinking and instead of accepting this he is poor mouthing to everybody in our neighborhood about how i am not being a good daughter, how i have turned my back on him. he has sympathy going his way from several of my friends. the part he wont admit is this. he can get off his sorry ass and come down here and visit me anytime. he is always welcome. sober. he doesn't have the balls. so he plays the victom. i am just not going to cater to him. i am not willing to be the only one giving, passifying and meeting his demands anymore. i exist too. i count. he can't see it. too bad. no, he is so selfious he refuses to acknowlege that i count too. this is my delemmna . coming into my own person as a woman. and having him down there still trying to get me to be the old rhonda. the one who didn't really exists except to help prop up his lies and fantasy and his fragile ego. that rhonda i refuse to be anymore. i am setting myself free and unfortunately it doesn't set well with people like him and the loss is hurtful to me but his moaning and crying to everybody makes me wish i could run over him at times. he is making me look so bad to people we know and it is all i can do not to justify my actions to these people. i refuse. but it is a total strength of will. believe me. i want to go all out and tell them how it really is. what would be the point.

August 4, 2006
11:37 am
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sorry its 'stinky' or 'sneaky', I didnt know there were two.

August 4, 2006
12:42 pm
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Bevdee



"In those 8 years apart, there were times that I would awaken in the middle
of the night and lie there thinking of him, and the phone would ring. I was
convinced we had this rare psychic connection. The beliefs about this that I
held dear were a barrier I placed between myself and any relationship I might
have had in that time away from him. Pretty jacked up, huh?"


You could win $1 million too if you can prove that you and that guy had an
ESP connection:
http://forums.randi.org/showth.....38;t=57362



I wonder: maybe you're only counting the "hits". What about the misses?
It might be you would be thinking about him about all the nights and wake up,
but he could call on only some of those nights. How many times honestly, did you
think about him and wake up - and out of those, how many times did he call and
how many times did he not? If half of those times he didnt call, that doesnt
mean an ESP connection. I think you got my point.


I know how you feel, you wanted to believe that there was this connection. I
felt me and this girl were close too. I had a "hit" a month ago when she
called

August 4, 2006
12:43 pm
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Bevdee, sorry I forgot to mention. That link I gave is a link where a couple has applied for the $1 million challenge, claiming they have an ESP conection between each other.

August 4, 2006
2:44 pm
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Hey G_

"You could win $1 million too if you can prove that you and that guy had an ESP connection:"

I suppose proving would involve having the abuser and I get together to have our stories heard? Pull up 20 year phone records, and then submit us to a battery of tests?

It doesn't seem worth the effort. I don't want to get distracted here.

Bevdee

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