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Science Without Bounds - the new religion?
July 26, 2006
9:42 pm
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guest guest-what does the muslim religion teach as the only way to heaven? huh?

omw- already told u that baptist typically believe that u can only get to heaven through the belief of christ, his life, death, and sacrifice. for mankind's sins.

July 26, 2006
9:48 pm
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Tez- i would ask u what u believe happens to us after death but u kinda answered that on the gnosis thread under this one. 🙂

July 26, 2006
10:02 pm
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guppy, yes the muslim religion has the same teaching as in Bible and the book of M - everyone else goes to Hell, only the believers go to heaven. I'm an athiest now, did you forget :[email protected]

July 26, 2006
10:13 pm
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no, i did not forget guest. i wanted your knowlege, not your beliefs on that question. so even the muslim religion is not without the same constrictions as any other. do the muslims read out of the bible like i know of. king james version? and then there is another bible added to it? or do the muslim have their own seperate bible? how do the muslim percieve themselves going to heaven. what do they have to do or believe?

July 26, 2006
10:17 pm
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Muslim have their own book 'Quran' or written Koran in the west, the religion is totally seperate. It invalidates all other religions. yea they believe disbeleivers will burn in Hellfire. The message of intolerance is stronger than in Bible or Mormon stuff. Muslims will go to heaven after paying the ticket for their sings but disbelievers will remain there forever.

ofcourse all religions got that. Otherwise the religion would be saying "you really dont have to follow me, you can go to heaven by other religions too".

July 26, 2006
10:22 pm
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how could i get my hands on one, a Quran? i want to read it and compare the differences from what i know. i am going to try the internet for info. thanks for telling me what u know. do muslims believe in reincarnation? how will the muslim pay a ticket for their sins?

let me guess, put up with nosey guppies? j/k

July 26, 2006
10:55 pm
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search Quran in google and also search skeptics Quran so you get a basic overview of the important stuff (good and bad)

Nope, they dont beeive in re-inc. The ticket paying is gonna be hellfire and other bad forms of torture.

July 27, 2006
9:22 am
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hi gup, guest..

I was raised in a Baptist church, true. But didn't give my life to JC until I was 17 yrs old. I went to a different church this weekend, very different. My church does not seem to be alive, so to speak, so am going to a different church...non-denominational, but the people there are Christians...much stronger than I am, and I looked around and thought to myself...HOW do they do this?? SO I am going to keep going and see how I like it.

But anyway...got off track...I just thought of something...

If you put up a million little sound-proof houses, and put a born again Christian in each house, and went door to door and asked them the same question, there is no doubt that you would get the SAME answer from 1 million people, because they all have the same Spirit of God in them. On the other hand, if you put up sound proof houses with someone who represented a 'religion" and asked them all the same question, you would most likely receive a DIFFERENT answer, because their answers may be based on their religious beliefs. If you put on million born again Christians in one room, there will be more synchronicity then if you put a million different religions in one room. The Christians will talk about one God, what he has done in their lives, and what they are going to do for other people. If someone is there, and not a believer, they will just love on you. The religions will talk about their different belief systems, perhaps argue which one is the best one, which one works or doesn't, conversion techniques for each.

Let me say, for me personally I say this because of my own experiences. It may be different for someone else.

I choose to be the person who is born-again, accepts people and just loves on them!!!

July 27, 2006
10:38 am
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hi OMW, sup

>> what he has done in their lives << What has God done in your or in anyone else's life hasnt been done in my life? If you could look at the whole world at the same time and try to draw conclusions, maybe you would know why I believe the way I do. I looked at the big picture - not just at myself, and tried to made sense out of it.

July 27, 2006
3:44 pm
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hi guest,

doing ok, you?

If I answered your question it would be answering it for you and would be judgemental, and since i really don't know your answer, I can't answer that, that is something only you know for yourself.

I guess though, if any questions anyone has is a result of seeking something different, then maybe question your beliefs. I found a new church, and these people are 'on fire' for God...I want that too. I don't know why they are, but they are. I just know that I love God, but I am not on fire. My son is 'on fire', and I have been a "Christian" longer than he is...I question, 'what makes him different' from his mom...or what makes the people at this church different? They are changing this City, and their lives....so I AM CURIOUS! =)

July 27, 2006
4:22 pm
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Hi Seeker, it has come to my attention that u have more than once addressed omw as your sister in christ. nice little clique you keep claiming. u two do not have the monopally on being christian. and this thread is not poor little christians battling big bad evil others. This is an adult discussion. Think and answer for yourself. Teaming up makes u look weak and childish. imho.

July 27, 2006
4:29 pm
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Tez, Guest,
what religion believes that they are reincarnated back on earth? do u know????? esp the people who think cows are sacred. dont they believe the cows are their family reincarnated?

July 27, 2006
4:39 pm
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See its the same in the other religion too. There people call each other "brother" and "sister". As if everyone else is devil and witch. Religions divide. We should all be one, but nope you cant see it, can you.

Thanks OMW, the fact is, nothing special of PRACTICAL significance has happened in your life or that in a life of any "believer", that doesnt happen in the lives id disbelievers. Therefore, your God has done nothing for you. Thats the point I was trying to make.

July 27, 2006
4:40 pm
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omw- i dont agree with your view on a non believer in a group of christians. more times than not what u will trigger is hostility and anger from the nonbeliever. I have seen this too many times.

and it doesn't matter if you have a billion baptists in glass houses , or any other religions or faith. you will get slightly different views on the same story from each one. U make it look like the holy ghost will give us all the same exact answers. Like some devine mystical truth will and is the only correct way to believe. If that were so, u and Seeker would be going to the same church. U would think and believe the same way. or are u saying the holly ghost has split personality???

July 27, 2006
4:41 pm
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ok typo:

nothing special of PRACTICAL significance has happened in your life or that in a life of any "believer", that doesnt happen in the lives _OF_ disbelievers.

July 27, 2006
6:04 pm
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Tez-u were talking about triggers somewhere on this thread. I understand what u mean. If u grow up in a healthy family then going to any church will help reinforce this way of life. Unfortunately , if , like i was, raised in an alchoholic dysfunctional home, where healthy boundries were never taught or encouraged then seeking my answers out in church only reinforced the codependent way of thinking i was already submitted to. like, honor your mother and father for a long and healthy life. yea, that works if the parents honor themselves and u. but if you are already being mentally forced to honor the warped parent to the degree that u dishonor yourself then church teaching only encourage and strengthen the abuse. it took me years to seperate the two. never, once, have i heard in any church i have ever attented, anybody say honor yourself. if u live in abuse, this is how u shoud deal,report or live. individual thinking was never talked about. If u live in a cinderella world church teachings are great, but if u live, like alot of us do, in mental, physical, abuse then it only makes it worse. esp. if u are a child looking for answers. i sat in many girl sunday school classes and listened to how you are supposed to act as a woman of god. submissive, giving, tolerant....just once i would have liked to have heard the truth of how u are supposed to live if u are already in hell to begin with. like report the abuse, get out, this is a better way. u know, common sense stuff. instead all i have ever heard is god allows it for his own reasons. bull shit. man allows it for selfious , selfcentered reasons. To this day, i resent the hell out of anybody that preaches follow blindly without question my way. the only way. the best way. yea, right, talk about individuality. talk about survival. about dignity, how to honor yourself. not, well......my way is the right way and i am sorry u live in the real world but u know god allows this to happen for his own reasons. u should just accept it. ACCEPT IT????? ACCEPT IT????? like hell. that is my trigger .

July 27, 2006
6:10 pm
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Tez- can u relate? how do u feel about what i said? or what do u think.
Guppy

July 27, 2006
8:38 pm
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guest,

{There people call each other "brother" and "sister". As if everyone else is devil and witch.}

Can't a guy call somebody else a brother or sister in Christ and people understand he is simply expressing his kind feelings for that person?

Why must you read something sinister into it?

July 27, 2006
8:48 pm
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guppy,

As I told guest, I only meant to show my kind feelings toward omw by calling her a sister in Christ. I was not trying to "team up" with her against anybody else.

You also are my sister in Christ. I'm sorry that I didn't tell you this earlier. I don't mean for you to feel excluded or feel that I somehow like omw more than you. Because I like you very, very much. :o)

July 27, 2006
8:54 pm
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guppy,

It's Hinduism that believes in reincarnation. You can be reincarnated as a cow if you've been nigh near perfect in this life. Or as something else if you've been less than nigh near perfect.

That's a good point you made about omw and I being in the same religion if we were led by the same Holy Ghost. "One Lord, one faith" as Paul wrote, and "God is not a God of confusion". It shows that something may be missing in the approach that omw is talking about.

July 27, 2006
8:56 pm
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From now on I won't call anybody on this site a brother or sister in Christ. I don't want it alleged I am saying others are less important or be perceived to be playing favorites or teaming up with somebody.

See? I am capable of learning.

July 27, 2006
9:10 pm
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guppy,

It's too bad they didn't also teach the men at your church to be godly, to love their wives and children, to sacrifice for them, and to honor them. It sounds like you were subjected to a very one-sided approach to religion: the women do what they should and the men don't have to do what they should. It's very regrettable and sad.

I've been guilty in the past about saying that God allows abuse to occur for his own reasons. I only was trying to make sense of it myself, and was trying to console myself along with the other person. I don't fully understand why God allows so much abuse to occur. On reflection, I've been wrong to say that.

It is up to men to police themselvs and make darn sure that not one of their number is abusing any woman or child. Women cannot do that effectively. It has to be men keeping each other in line.

This is part of what I believe Christ meant when he prayed in the Lord's prayer that "thy will be done in earth". Meaning that it is up to us to see that God's will is accomplished in this world. God does not automatically make it happen. It's all up to us.

And you are absolutely right -- abuse should never be accepted. Never!

July 27, 2006
9:11 pm
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Seeker-u can do anything u want. But from my point of view it looked shabby to acknowlege someone as special ONLY because they think like u do. This says be and say like i am or u aren't as important. Because guest thinks differently does not make him any less valuable a person. He is our brother in life, like Tez, WD, U, and everybody else. TO BE DIFFERENT DOES NOT MEAN TO BE LESS!!!!!!!!

July 27, 2006
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Seeker-hinduism , huh? what a goal. to wind up a mcdonald's quarter pounder if u are nigh good enough. ha!!!!!

thank you for replying to my question.

July 27, 2006
9:21 pm
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guppy.

On the 27-Jul-06 you asked:

"Tez- can u relate? how do u feel about what i said? or what do u think. Guppy"

Your post struck a chord in me. Your experience was very similar to my own. I have to say that what you wrote is basicly how I feel about the established Christian churches and their respective dogma as I understand them.

However, I suspect, but don't know for sure, that Christ taught a very different message; a message that has long since been obscured by the passage of time and political meddling for reasons other than spiritual ones.

My suspicions are based upon my understanding of the Gospel of St. Thomas that is very mystical and very Buddhist in its content. Since Christ reportedly travelled extensively between the ages of 16 and 30, he may well have encountered Buddhism and brought back much of the wisdom and compassion of the Buddha and tried to incorporate it into Judaism with only limited success - with the exception of the more enlightened apostles such as Thomas and even the much denigrated Judas. From my understanding, early church fathers and finally Rome put paid to more than 26 Gospels, ensuring that until recently they never saw the light of day.

The word 'God' has no place in my understanding of that which underpins all of creation. In this regard, I prefer such words as Mind at Large, Essence of Being, Ground of Being, Tathagata, Universal Mind, - even though I know that no words can ever hope to go anywhere near adequately symbolizing or describing that which is indescribable, without limits and holds the potential to manifest in an infinite variety of forms all of which are 'empty' of any permanent, indivisible, independent and continuous 'selfhood'.

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