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Science Without Bounds - the new religion?
July 9, 2006
12:16 pm
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bevdee
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Ok, Tez, I think I have been able to answer myself. Here goes-

You asked me why I was afraid to open up to my man.

I think I am afraid to get too close.

Scared he will reject ME. I have never told him about the abuse. 2 reasons. I don't want him to feel sorry for me, and I don't want him to think I am a target for abuse!! And if he even verbally abused me, after I shared that part of myself with him, I am afraid it would hurt.

Bevdee

July 9, 2006
9:11 pm
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bevdee

In the 9-Jul-06 post you said three things:

1. "Scared he will reject ME"

2. "...don't want him to think I am a target for abuse."

3. "And if he even verbally abused me, after I shared that part of myself with him, I am afraid it would hurt."

In items 1 and 3 above, I see your fear of harm; that is, fear of your very core self, your essence, being devalued by someone who you hold in high regard? Is this how you also see it?

From intuiting about item 2, I think that you might believe that all men are potential verbal - if not physical - abusers, given that they can find a soft "target". Is this your belief? Or am I reading something into this that isn't there?

By the way it is pretty hard to offend me. If this is how you see all men, it is easy to understand why you would hold this belief.

What part of you do you think is attracting your present bf to you at the moment?

Do you think it is only your body?

Or the image of yourself that you think that you are projecting and want him to see?

Is it a combination of both?

Or is it that you don't know what attracts him to you but as long as its working you are fearful of changing anything for fear of losing him?

Conversely, what atracts you to your present bf? Is it only the 'good' sex that you are getting from him? Or is he also a buttress against loneliness? Or is he giving you a validation that you fear could change if you allowed your true self to emerge?

In your mind's eye, do you clearly see and really know what that true self really is?

If I was to ask you to describe your true self to me, would you be able to do so, do you think?

July 9, 2006
10:09 pm
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Tez-thank u very much for your response. yes. i have an unhealthy template. i was raised by a raging alchoholic with narcisistic personality. i am in the process of finishing a divorce right now after spending almost twenty three years married to the same template. i have since been blessed by meeting a man that does not fit this template. his intelligence, compassion, sense of humor, empathy for others is so different from anyone i have ever met before.

i understand what u are saying in your response to me. if u feel the almost primitive response to another person it is a catastrophe waiting. right???? because in reality it is a response to a personality that helped shape us in our childhood. is this what u are saying?????

July 9, 2006
10:58 pm
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i think two codependent people, who are both aware of their personality and are working on the codependency make a good match. the hell comes from a codependent matching up with a dependent. or in other words a taker matching up with a giver makes for a match made in hell for the giver everytime.

i have not ended up thinking all men are bastards but i now have absolutley no sympathy or empathy for an alcoholic. it is not in my best interest to. i know that about myself. to do otherwise would cause me alot of pain. i have learned this the hard way after spending many years playing the enabler for one. now i am very hardhearted where they are concerned. i dont visit my dad when he is drinking. to his chagrin. i wont bail anyone out on a d.u.i., dont care who it is. i am absolutely done with it. i dont even like to converse with an alcoholic when they are temperarily sober. (if u want to call it that, they still think drydrunk style) respect for them? nada. there is no middle ground for me where they are concerned anymore. this is where i have ended up after being raised in alcoholism and surrounded by it my whole life. seems, my main goal in the last four years is to totally get them out of my life. and i have found my life getting better and better. =)

sincerely, guppy

July 10, 2006
1:37 pm
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Guppy,

I read your post, and I feel what you are saying, because my life sounds like yours. It seems that all my life I have been the designated driver. That sure gets old, doesn't it?
I did what you did, where you say, " now i am very hardhearted where they are concerned."

My mother is addicted to prescription narcotics. My sister is an alcoholic, drinking from the time she was 14, and, in the past 2 1/2 years, addicted to crack. My mother's enabler is her husband, my sister's enabler is my mother. Once I realised my sister was using crack, I stopped sending her money. (She was always coming up with some expense). After these calls where she would beg, and I would cry and cry. It tore me up not to respond to her NEED.

Now she won't speak to me. I had to harden my heart.

But - Over the last 2 years, I have made peace with myself. Because something happened one night, with an ER pt, a crack addict, that changed the way I felt. ( I had hardened my heart, remember?) The young man had aspirated the metal mesh filter? from a pipe. When I asked him what had happened, he started sobbing, and saying, "I am such a f**kup, I can't stop taking this shit, and my girlfriend is pregnant" Just boo-hooing. My blood ran cold. I was hearing my sisters voice. I heard all the inflections of self-hatred, fear, and despair that I heard in hers. Because I didn't want him to see my eyes, I had to turn away, so I went to get him another blanket. As I wrapped the end of it around his feet, he said'" I don't know why you are being so nice to me, I am SUCH a f**king loser"

Before I thought about it, I said, " No, you aren't a loser, you just have a harder row to hoe than most of us." He wailed.

As soon as I could, I left the room, then sat in the bathroom and wailed, too. What caused me to cry was the realisation that I had never said that to my own (only) sister. I had communicated my judgements to her, but never any compassion.

I now call her once a week, and leave her voicemail a message, telling her that I love her and miss her. I let her know that no matter what she does, I love her. I have also told her I will emotionally support any efforts she makes toward or during recovery, but I cannot contribute financially.

She still won't talk to me, but I feel that I have done the best I can. Since I haven't seen her in nearly 3 years, I sometimes think about visiting her, but right now it is probably wise for me to stay away. I am still struggling every day with my codepedency.

I think you are doing the right thing by keeping your distance.

Bevdee

July 10, 2006
1:47 pm
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Tez,

I had another thought. I am having so many of these !!!

From 6/28/06 "Thereafter, absolutely puzzled, I lay in bed still craving a woman!! I asked myself what exactly did I want a woman to do if I did get one to come to my room?? I realized that I wanted as much flesh on flesh as is possible. I wanted to crawl right up her vagina into her womb!! I was yearning for the wonderful security inherent in the physical intimacy of infancy in the womb and later on my mother's breast. I then realized that fear, raw fear of death, lay behind this craving well disguised as a powerful sexual desire!!"

Every time the abuser hit me, or even when he gave me a verbal beating, afterward he always wanted to have sex. I always found this very confusing, especially since he had spent so much time and energy letting me know how undesirable I was.

BUT. He had to have been frightened after he lost control with me. Frightened of losing me, being left to support himself, afraid I would call the law. This really explains alot.

Also, he once asked me since I had left him once before why wouldn't I do it again? Even though I reminded him that I left because he was married, and his wife was trying to kick my ass every time I turned around, HE considered that I left him.

When I left him that first time, I felt low and unworthy because he would not leave his wife. I felt miserable because I did not win. I tried so hard to prove to him I was better than she was.

Ah man, when you asked me those hard questions, I wanted to ignore them. It is really easy to blame everything on the violent one. The obvious one. But there is that dance, and it takes two.

Alot of this is hard for me to admit to myself. All this had to surface. Some of these questions! I sit back and just stare at them!

The questions you ask require alot of thought, Tez! Thanks again,

Bevdee

July 10, 2006
2:05 pm
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Oh Tez!

I think these are the hardest questions yet!! But I am going to give it my best/

No, of course I don't hate all men. I see some good relationships, and I am friends with some men.

Back to the abuser - I am realising how very deeply I let him scar me. Anything I told him was used against me. He picked up on any vulnerability, or imagined one, and tried to use it to insult me. And while I know ALL men aren't like him, I am having a great deal of difficulty working past that pain and fear.

You have asked -

No, not all men. However, it IS my experience with men I have THOUGHT I was in love with. Because that is the kind of man I attracted, and was attracted to. Remember? July 5-06, I said,

I've protected myself in the last 10 years. My cousin already knew all about me. No risk there. He pursued me. Then, after that, I decided I would be in control.

Ummm, I think he likes to look at me. He likes talking to me, because I almost always have opinions, and when I'm not talking, I listen, and ask questions. I see something flicker in his eyes when that happens. I also think he respects me for never asking for or accepting any offers of help, when I was having such a hard time financially. One good thing!! I know with absolute certainty he is not after my earnings.!!!

Oh hell, Tez!! it can't be that!!

In some areas, I have no pretension. I am pretty down to earth. I am not into acquisition of material things. And I am not interested in people who are, or those who brag about it. He, too is non-pretentious this way.

But as for the cool, aloofness? I think he might see past that attempted projection.

Maybe

His intelligence, his disposition, his looks, his work ethic. His views on religion are similar to mine. He likes animals.

(I'm kind of liking this persistence.)

No, it's not the only thing, but that is a big draw. < Or is he also a buttress against loneliness?>

I can fill the loneliness with alot of things. I always have. It is more than that. He is good company, and I have fun when I am with him. I don't want to NEED someone to make me feel less lonely.

YES., like I said- I really REALLY don't want his pity. Or contempt. no .....sometimes......mostly no.

It's like I have these - cobwebs. Until I clear these cobwebs from the attic of my mind, I am afraid I will not be able to have a good relationship.

Probably not. Maybe under hypnosis.

Bevdee

July 10, 2006
2:14 pm
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Ok, I totally messed that up, the quotes didn't come through!! I am trying again. It looks like the game show Jeopardy!! Answers - no questions.

Here it is

Oh Tez!

I think these are the hardest questions yet!! But I am going to give it the old rebel try.

No, of course I don't hate all men. I see some good relationships, and I am friends with some men.

Back to the abuser - I am realising how very deeply I was scarred by him. Anything I told him was used against me. He picked up on any vulnerability, or imagined one, and tried to use it to insult me. And while I know ALL men aren't like him, I am having a great deal of difficulty working past the old hurt.

You have asked -

No, not all men. However, it IS my experience with men I have THOUGHT I was in love with. Because that is the kind of man I attracted, and was attracted to. Remember? July 5-06, I said,

I've protected myself in the last 10 years. My cousin already knew all about me. No risk there. He pursued me. Then, after that, I decided I would be in control.

Umm, I think he likes to look at me. He likes talking to me, because I almost always have opinions, and when I don't, I listen, and ask questions. I see something flicker in his eyes when that happens. I think he respects me for never asking for or accepting any offers of help, when I was having such a hard time financially. One good thing!! I know with absolute certainty he is not after my earnings.!!!

Oh hell, Tez!! it can't be that!!

In some areas, I have no pretension. I am pretty down to earth. I am not into acquisition of material things. And I am not interested in people who are, or those who brag about it. He is non-pretentious this way.

But as for the cool, aloofness? I think he might see past that attempted projection.

Maybe

His intelligence. He is very sweet, he is handsome, and he is persistent. His views on religion are similar to mine. He likes animals.

(I'm kind of liking this persistence.)

No, it's not the only thing, but that is a big draw.

< Or is he also a buttress against loneliness?>

I can be alone. So it is more than that. He is good company, and I have fun when I am with him.

YES., like I said- I really REALLY don't want his pity. Or contempt.

no ........ sometimes...... mostly no.

It's like I have these - cobwebs. Until I clear these cobwebs from the attic of my mind, I am afraid I will not be able to have a good relationship.

Probably not. Maybe under hypnosis.

By the way, the last time I was with him, a couple of days ago, I was a little more relaxed during sex. I was not so aloof. He seemed surprised. It was better for both of us.

Bevdee

Cool, that worked!!

July 10, 2006
7:55 pm
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guppy

On the 9-Jul-06 you said:

"i have an unhealthy template. i was raised by a raging alchoholic with narcisistic personality."

I'm very sorry to learn that.

You also said:

"i am in the process of finishing a divorce right now after spending almost twenty three years married to the same template."

If your ex is truly a template then I fear that you are in for some great pain if you are not already in it.

You also said:

"i have since been blessed by meeting a man that does not fit this template. his intelligence, compassion, sense of humor, empathy for others is so different from anyone i have ever met before."

I do hope that you don't feel powerful sexual attraction towards this new guy. I do hope you feel admiration, respect, and lots of healthy affection for him. If and when the sexual 'highs' are not very high, nowhere near as high as with your template match, then I do hope you can muster the cognitive strength to fend off the dissatisfaction with lots of self-nurturing.

I found that it takes a lot of mental effort to turn within to source the very love that we so desperately crave from our template matches. Our natural inclination is to turn without seeking it from our templates. Then when we don't get it we 'hate' them for rejecting us and push them away. We are very vulnerable at such times as breaking up with a template match with whom we have been sexually involved.

You also said:

"i understand what u are saying in your response to me. if u feel the almost primitive response to another person it is a catastrophe waiting. right???? because in reality it is a response to a personality that helped shape us in our childhood. is this what u are saying?????"

Yessss ... sort of.

I don't think that the template is as clearcut as a memory of a "personality" per se. I don't think the 'template' itself is a simple thing. It is more like a complex pattern of emotional triggers.

My beliefs about the template:

1. I think that the template is a mixture of emotional memories formed without any memory of the context within which the emotion was originally experienced as an infant. Contextual memories don't seem to start to form until later at 3 or 4 years of age. How far back can you remember contextual events etc?

2. The emotional memories that form the template are really 'triggers' located in our amygdala that trigger off our emotions. These emotional triggers can be activated directly from out sense organs without any recall in our consciousness of images of these people so important to us for our survival in our infancy. These template triggers can also be triggered off indirectly from our cognitions as well.

3. These template memory triggers are visual, auditory, smell, touch, and even taste based patterns. When we unconsciously recognize a template the recognition might take the form of intonations and/or modulations in the way our templat matches speak, it might be their scent, the way they carry themselves, their facial expressions, their eyes, the way they touch us - a whole lot of psychophysiological 'triggers' that are there like a 'keylock' in amygdala awaiting the right 'key' that is being projected from our template match and/or into our template match by our own psyche. When we quickly fall out of love then it is usually because we were doing the template projecting into the other person all along. When that projecting stops we recognize our 'mistake' and easily move on. Sometimes it works the other way. sometimes we fail to recognize the template first up. But over time the template qualities emerge from our template match and we fall head over heels into a besotted sexually obsessive 'love/hate' relationship. It is not always straight forward.

4. The template itself is not necessarily an image derived from one person only. For example, if in infancy several people were our key nurturers then we may well have a very hybrid template encompassing characteristic triggers from several people.

If you find this concept very difficult to get a handle on then you are in good company. I doubt that many academics themselves in the field of Psychology understand it fully unless they have personally been 'through it'.

Of course a dysfunctional template is a prerequisite to suffering great emotional pain. So firstly the academic must have had poor parenting. Secondly he/she must have both met and become sexually involved with at least one template match in his/her life. Thirdly he/she must have had the gift of both humility and insight into his/her own condition - turning within for answers - not without. Fourthly he/she must have the altruistic drive to research it for the benefit of fellow human beings. Few have done this. But it has been done. I believe that Family of Origin Therapy is based on this concept - inner child stuff. See the work of John Bradshaw, Dr. Margaret Paul, Dr. Halpin, and others.

This is my take on this very serious emotional problem in many peoples lives - especially my own!

July 10, 2006
8:31 pm
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Bevdee.

About your present bf you wrote:

"I think he respects me for never asking for or accepting any offers of help, when I was having such a hard time financially. One good thing!! I know with absolute certainty he is not after my earnings.!!!

Oh hell, Tez!! it can't be that!!...

... ...

His intelligence. He is very sweet, he is handsome, and he is persistent. His views on religion are similar to mine. He likes animals.

(I'm kind of liking this persistence.)"

I am going to put the above into my own words in an attempt to guage whether I am understanding you correctly.

I think that you are saying this:

"I think that my present bf wants me for myself not what i can do for him. Though I don't think he sees the real me yet, I think that his very determination to persist until he does see the real me gives me a feeling of having value based upon that alone.

Since he is intelligent, sweet and handsome he could have the pick of any girl he likes. There are plenty of pretty woman around that he could have so I must have qualities over and above my looks that attracts him. I need the validation of a man such as this bf. It feels good to be appreciated for myself by someone like him.

This validation attracts me. But I am frightened to mess this up by exposing my past to him. I'm even more afraid of the hurt that I will experience in losing this new found validation if my bf no longer respects or wants me after exposing myself emotionally to him."

Am I understanding you correctly?

July 10, 2006
9:49 pm
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guppy

I'm sorry - missed you second post of 9-Jul-06 where you said:

"i think two codependent people, who are both aware of their personality and are working on the codependency make a good match."

If you are saying that these two people are both highly enlightened about the nature of their individual dependencies AND the dysfunctionality of both their inner template's created in the psychophysical image of their infant caregiver's is not two extreme, then I would agree that it is possible for such a relationship, that is not based upon both partners dependency needs being fulfiled by the other, to survive.

Then you followed up with:

"... the hell comes from a codependent matching up with a dependent. or in other words a taker matching up with a giver makes for a match made in hell for the giver everytime."

I understand what you are saying.

IMO, in any codependent relationship, there is a dovetailing of neuroses, in a dance wherein one partner is trying to have their neurotic needs met by the other partner. If that partner, in meetings these needs also has his/her neurotic needs met in return then all is fine. However, I doubt that such harmonious reciprocity in any codependency based relationship exists anywhere except in theory.

In the specifice instance you mentioned of a giver/taker codependency both are dependent upon the other none the less.

The 'taker' depends upon the 'giver' to 'give' and experiences hell if that giving is not always up to the level he/she demands.

The giver experiences hell when the expected return for the giving is not forthcoming from the 'taker' - whatever form that 'return' takes.

Neither partner is really loving but locked into an emotional bartering based upon 'template' based infantile emotional cravings IMO. The 'taker' unconsciously wants 'mommy/daddy' substitutes to meet every emotional need or else!! The 'giver' is resentful after paying the price of love doesn't receive his/her dues!! Hell, hell and more hell.

An ideal relationship,IMO, is one wherein each partner delights in sharing whatever the other wants to freely share. Demands don't exist in such a relationship. Each partner is totally free to be themselves. Each partner meets whatever emotional needs that are not satisfied by the partner, themselves by highly informed self-nurturing. Any disturbances in such a relationship would be handled in open, frank, honest communication wherein both partners feel equally empowered in their team effort to solve the problem.

While the ideal rarely is met, some relationships come close. My contention is that such relationships have partners who have highly functional templates that are self-confirming, self-validating and self-appreciative that do not crave confirmation, validation or appreciation from the other partner. I am not meaning to imply that such mutual appreciation, respect, validation is not enjoyed or forthcoming. It is just not a craving need but a bonus.

Because of our own neediness, I believe that we who have dysfunctional templates, and this includes me, find it hard to see how such an ideal relationship could work - IMHO.

July 10, 2006
9:50 pm
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tez-thank you for your response Tez. it is very informative and i am glad to learn anything that might help me not turn around and make the same mistakes again. =)

July 10, 2006
10:46 pm
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guppy, nope thats not gonna cut it, my friend! In reply to Tez's posts, there has to be atleast 5 mentions of philosophers and atleast 16 references to magazines and journal articles with the proper quotes. Ok just kidding. lol. sorry.

July 11, 2006
11:30 pm
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guest-rofl!!!!! ok, guest, since u want the response with five mentions of philosphers and atleast sixteen references to magazines and journal articles with proper quotes, feel free to answer tez in my stead just that way. go for it. u are very funny my friend!! why be sorry for a sense of humor?! =)

ps. i couldn't answer tez that way if i wanted to. i think simple and analytical,and practical most of the time. sometimes i just don't think at all. ha!! but people who think intellectually have always been a joy to talk to as long as they overlook the fact i cannot keep up. what ya got to say bout that guesty?

July 12, 2006
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Tez-to answer your guestion tht i must be in alot of pain. nope. it has came and went. i have learned how to boundry up. love myself. take care of myself. i actually am very happy with myself and my life at the moment.

your friend
gup

July 12, 2006
12:14 am
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hehe... thanks for not being offended. I'm always being afraid my jokes are offending someone.

Well I will say, I'm like you now too. I cant think often too. You can see this because I couldnt answer the real question you asked because I cant think. I know its something you said but its just too heavy for me to lift, well right now. Maybe its the 0.3MG melatonin I took but even then I'm most often like 'bleah'. Anyway its good, as long as we're happy.

July 12, 2006
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If you're really happy, lend me some of that happiness at 0% for 6 months, I'll give it back I promise. Check my emotional credit history, its pretty good. Hmmmm..... wish that was possible eh! So whats the secret of your happiness?

July 12, 2006
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my secret guest? it is the way i choose to look at things. i am happy to be alive. i am happy i can still see. (bad eyesight) i am happy i can walk. ( had jra bad as a child. spent many months in hospital). i am happy to get to talk to all u fine people on aac. i am happy i ate grapes tonight instead of the bag of doritoes i really wanted. i am happy with myself. i accept myself just as i am, good, bad, smart, dumb, silly, whatever. i try and not talk bad about other people. i dont participate in other peoples conversations when it turns out to be malicious gossip. i have learned how to say no, and fight off the guilt that comes with it. i love my kids. my extended family. my friends. i am very blessed. i am happy to just be. i wish i could give it to u guest, but u must look inside and find it within you. as u get older what other people think of u will not matter so much. that helps. i think the most important thing is to come to be best friends with yourself and to hell with what other people think about you. u learn to not apologize for who u are. that u are alright just like u are. as long as u are doing the best u can at any given moment, what other people think doesn't really mean much. other people will always have an opinion of what or how u should be or where u should be in your personal growth. but like opinions go, they are only opinions, not truth. when u no longer say i have always been alone, but can say i have myself and what a wonderful thing, then u will find inner peace, and maybe if u are lucky, happiness as u might see it.

good night and sleep well
guest

i probably see things in u that u dont. you are kind, respectful,(most of the time), you give good advice, you care about other people, you admit your shotcomings as u see them, u have a terrific sense of humor tht cracks me up, u dont seem to habor a grudge against people when u disagree with them. u forgive easily and whole heartedly.......the most imprtant thing is how do U see yourself.

July 12, 2006
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spelling went downhill, get dyslexic when i am tired. but u get the point.

July 12, 2006
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Tez,

I am sorry about the way that the post from 7-10-06 came across! I don't know why the questions didn't paste over! I am not even going to try it again because first I put it on the wrong thread, then twice on this one. Enough is enough, and I can see you got the general idea.

Where you say "I think that you are saying this:

"I think that my present bf wants me for myself not what i can do for him. Though I don't think he sees the real me yet, I think that his very determination to persist until he does see the real me gives me a feeling of having value based upon that alone.
Since he is intelligent, sweet and handsome he could have the pick of any girl he likes. There are plenty of pretty woman around that he could have so I must have qualities over and above my looks that attracts him. I need the validation of a man such as this bf. It feels good to be appreciated for myself by someone like him.
This validation attracts me. But I am frightened to mess this up by exposing my past to him. I'm even more afraid of the hurt that I will experience in losing this new found validation if my bf no longer respects or wants me after exposing myself emotionally to him."
Am I understanding you correctly? "

Yes.

He is so polite!! easygoing, with a good sense of humor. He is good healthy company for me.

A couple of weeks ago, talking on the phone, I mentioned that I had not slept well the night before. When he asked me why, I told him I had alot on my mind. When he asked me what I had to worry about, I backed off, and told him I would tell him later. He hasn't pressed me for details, except to ask me a few days later if I was sleeping better.

I can't yet bring myself to tell him the things that have been on my mind.

I don't believe I am strong enough to deal with losing what I have with/from him just yet. And - while I don't want to NEED the validation, it IS very very nice.

I went to the bookstore today, and actually came off some money to get a thin book on meditation. Just to get started. I am wondering how I will be able to do any meditation where I live now. It is very crowded, and always noisy. I have started walking the dog in the evenings for the quiet time.

I want to answer questions you had for me on July 9 2006-

"In your mind's eye, do you clearly see and really know what that true self really is? "

and

"If I was to ask you to describe your true self to me, would you be able to do so, do you think? "

No and no. I don't really have a clear idea of what true self means. And it is just recently I have begun to acknowledge myself to me. I am trying to face and accept my emotions as a part of "me". Before, any emotion that did not "fit", I shoved way down.

Here is something I tried. A few nights ago, I laid down to go to sleep, and I whispered, "I love you" to myself. I actually laid there and experienced -- disbelief. I whispered it again, and I felt ... kind of pissed off. It made me uncomfortable. I went into the bathroom, and turned on the light, and said it to my reflection.(You remember? where I said for a long time after the abuse, I couldn't look at my reflection?) When I did this, I stared, and saw tears in the corners of my eyes. I had to turn off the light.

I am still trying to figure out why I do not believe myself.

I am not sure where all this is headed, and it is a little scary. I won't give up, though, because I want to be happy. I wish that it were effortless!, like making a birthday wish, but I see it is not going to be like this for me.

Tez, I don't have the words to convey to you how valuable the exchanges between us are to me. You have helped me alot. Now, I ain't sayin' I'm there!! (wherever that is). But, the way you have of seeing what I am saying when I am talking all around it! And bringing it right back to me, pinpointing it. This is keeping me on track.

Thank you,

Bevdee

July 12, 2006
4:39 pm
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guppy,
mind if i post your answer in Support? it is very touching and could be very helpful.

great way to view life!

omw

July 12, 2006
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bevdee

Thanks for your post of 12-Jul-06.

I've cut and pasted below some key statements that I think are significant signposts.

You said:

"I can't yet bring myself to tell him the things that have been on my mind."

And:

"I don't believe I am strong enough to deal with losing what I have with/from him just yet."

This above statement would seem to me to indicate that you believe in the high probability that your bf will not like what he might see in your mind if you open up to him.

Is this what you believe? If so then what is the reason for this belief? Since the clarity of your thinking is a delight to me, why should it be otherwise for your bf? Or is it that you fear him sitting in moral judgement upon you?

Looking at yourself in the mirror you saw something that evoked emotions of great sadness. This is what you said about that:

"When I did this, I stared, and saw tears in the corners of my eyes. I had to turn off the light."

You saw something in the mirror. Yet the veil of your unconscious seems to me to be preventing you from seeing the person for which you feel so much sadness. This is what you said about that 'self' that you saw in the mirror:

"I don't really have a clear idea of what true self means."

And:

"I whispered, "I love you" to myself... ... ... I am still trying to figure out why I do not believe myself."

I suspect the reason that you do not believe yourself is because you know that it is not true. Perhaps this lack of love for yourself is the root cause of your great sadness that you felt when looking at yourself in the mirror. But I don't know if this is true or not.

I am intuiting that there is a deep need at this stage for you to bring up into your conscious mind exactly how you actually see your 'self' to be without any self-judging whatsoever.

Can you find a quiet place to sit in a comfortable chair? Can you find the right time to do this? If so, then could you take one hand in the other as a loving mother would take your hand? Could you close your eyes and breath normally. As you breath in and out count the breaths. Once you get to ten go back to 1. If you lose count as a result of distracting thoughts just start again at 1.

Consciously feel what your body is feeling. Feel the discomfort in the parts of your body are taking your weight in the chair. Feel the tenseness in any muscles not yet relaxed. Keep counting the breaths. Watch the thoughts flit bye. Don't try to stop them. Don't grab onto them. Let them flow over and through you like a wave in the ocean would do.

When you feel the racing thoughts slowing down and a peace and serenity pervading your whole body, could you then in your mind's eye recapture the 'view of yourself' that you saw in the mirror? Could you give yourself permission to be 'not OK' and to be OK about that just the same? That is, could you give yourself permission to accept whatever you see and not sit in judgement upon that you that you see? Could you just be 'the observer' watching yourself see yourself, nothing else?

Could you do all that? What do you think?

July 12, 2006
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guppy yes that was really nice and touching, condensed and sweet. I hope I can view stuff like you do, I think I'm getting there, but slowly. But slowly is better than never. hmm. thanks, good to have u as my teacher

July 13, 2006
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omw-be my guest!! post it wherever it might help. =)
thank you for the compliment.

guest-thank you for your kind words. :o)

July 13, 2006
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guest- i am learning from u as well. u have pointed out to me more than once my slips on being codependently opinionated and i (thank goodness) am determined to get better and change my old codependent way of thinking bad enough to listen. sooo thank U!!!

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