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Rubaiyat of Omar Khyyam - anyone interested?
March 29, 2009
12:30 am
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Tumbleweed8
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Ty, Tez. Yes, I was thinking along those lines after I left here and I've heard that before a few times how just being around ones who are mystical can transform others. And yes, so true that it needs to be measured. Kind of like how we can get overwhelmed in many situations, sometimes studying something and trying to absorb so much so quickly and only so much will be retained. Also, I've noticed sometimes when I read something, then went back to it much later, it was like a light was turned on. I would then think how could I have missed that part before. Was there not also a verse in the Bible about the field needing to be fertile or something like that. I came back now for example because I'd forgotten which chapter you quoted above so I've made a note of it and will read it. I think I read in the Rubaiyyat that each verse is different, but it does seem some couple of verses are related. Is this right?

March 29, 2009
12:37 am
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Tumbleweed8

Bear with me is what's coming. It is not what it seems.

When you experience an orgasm, at the very crescendo point, who is it that you are aware of as you are having that ultimate ecstatic moment?

I can only speak for myself. At that pivotal point, any consciousness of 'self' disappears from my conscious awareness momentarily and it is as if my consciousness explodes and then retracts itself into my more mundane awareness shortly thereafter leaving a very pleasant after-glow of feelings of well-being.

Morticians often report that men die with an erection with or without ejaculation. My theory is that in both sexual orgasms and death the mechanism is the same; namely a disconnection between the mind and the brain. In death the reason for this disconnection is obvious; the brain is dying or dead. In sex, I believe, that the momentous focusing on the point of heightened sexual preoccupation momentarily disconnects the mind from the brain, therein producing the ecstasy that we know accompanies an orgasm.

The initial point of all of the above is that letting go of 'preoccupation with self' which entails meeting all the demands of the brain for the mind's attention, produces ecstasy like drunken euphoria: "Wine! Wine! Wine!" Deep meditation states achieved by many different means can bring about these states through this disconnectedness from conscious and unconscious preoccupations with monitoring the 'self's' welfare via the brain. These heightened meditation experiences, whether or not accompanied by ecstasy, I believe, induce massive paradigm shifts in our perception of reality, especially in regard to our own mortality. We eventually discover that the 'mind' cannot die.

Now to ultimate point of that which I have written above:

"Come, fill the Cup, and in the Fire of Spring"

Having first emptied the mind's Cup of all the old distorted sense organs induce perceptions of who or what the 'self' actually is, the mind is free to "fill the Cup" with the new perceptions of reality after the cleansing fire of awakening("Fire of Spring") which removes the mesmerized mind-conditioning and its old ways of thinking about and seeing reality.

"The Winter Garment of Repentance fling:"

Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. This IMHO is saying the same thing. Let go of the old sorrows, self-recriminations and pious self-mortification, all of which are based on self-centered preoccupations with the false images of self and ist preservation. Fling the dreary winter like heavy garment of self-preoccupation into the burning fires of the process of 'awakening' from the dream like state of deluded vision.

"The Bird of Time has but a little way
To fly-"

In an enlightened state 'Time' has no meaning. The eternal, now, now, now of ever present awareness of the 'here and now' free from preoccupation with repenting the past of trying to prepare for and foresee the future, liberates us from suffering therein heightening our experience of heaven on earth in the ever presence of bliss. As our spiritual practices, meditation, etc progress "The Bird of Time has but a little way To fly-" before we arrive at the conscious and unconscious ever presence to the 'here and now'.

"-and lo! the Bird is on the Wing." As we soar to the heavens in ecstatic Samadhi, the pure vision of enlightenment is fast a coming our way - have the faith extols Omar.

For those interested here is a very interesting link to the true story of Professor John Wren Lewis. Through extraordinary circumstances recounted in his story, John was trust into the ever present now through s very close near death experience of which he remembers nothing! Enjoy.

March 29, 2009
12:51 am
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Tumbleweed8

You wrote:

"I think I read in the Rubaiyyat that each verse is different, but it does seem some couple of verses are related. Is this right?"

I would think so but don't know for sure. This exploration is as new to me as to the rest of us. If there be an expert amongst us may she step forward and declare herself. Says me, taking two steps backwards very quickly. 🙂

After we get through all the verses we might all know the answer to that question. My guess at this stage is that while each is different, a common thread binds them all together.

March 29, 2009
1:20 am
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Tumbleweed8
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Ty, Tez. Well, there certainly is a lot to this. Yes, the self disappears. Also, in the meditation I learned they speak of the space between. It supposedly is that space which is most important from my understanding of it. Again, the letting go idea, I would say. I often tell myself to no avail, the ego must go which is another way I look at all the preoccupation, but I do get it that very thing slows our growth and understanding and prevents our getting to a more peaceful place in our life. Staying in the moment when one can do it is so rewarding, I find. Yes, Have the faith, for sure. And he says enlightenment is near. Well, there is an awakening going on in our world, it seems on a more common level. The wine, wine wine reminds me of the explanation of the sap which we were taught when learning the meditation process. One can take just one word like that and expound on it so much, it is almost unbelievable. There is that expansion of concsiousness, I do believe. I will check out that link now.

March 29, 2009
1:50 am
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Tumbleweed8
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Ty for the link. I read part of that article and will return to it after I get some rest. My son could relate to some of that as he had a NDE after which he told me he does not fear death. A lot of info there, very interesting.

March 29, 2009
10:06 am
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Tumbleweed8
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The various interpretations of these verses here is very enlightening if I may use that word. When I went back to read my initial interpretation of verse 7 and then read your interpretation, Tez, I realized I had only touched on the idea of that verse. At the time I wrote it here, I thought there has to be much more to this. So, I am definitely learning here. Taking each line of the verse like that brings in much more of the meaning than just a general idea of the whole verse.

March 29, 2009
2:10 pm
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Looking at verse 7 and my own perception of the meaning is the following;

"Come, fill the Cup, and in the Fire of Spring"

Come, gain wisdom, anew fresh as spring, as spring comes like a fire so does the burning desire to gain wisdom and peace when you have taken off the winter garment called repentance, it drags you down, it is heavy letting go of the past and filling the cup as new wisdom without the obstructions of your old ways

"The Winter Garment of Repentance fling"

Letting go of life’s heavy burden’s, just like taking off a winter garment you are free from the weight by letting go of the repentance, you allow yourself to heal and you are as fresh as the spring, let it fling away in a new day

"The Bird of Time has but a little way"

Why wear the winter garment and hold onto past, when living in the moment is life now, and forever, so the bird of time has but a little way when you hold onto time in the past, and look towards the future, living in the now is time.

"To fly--and lo! the Bird is on the Wing."

To live in the lo is holding you back, the wing is nothing without the bird, meaning we shouldn’t hold onto those heavy winter garment’s, by taking them off, we are allowing growth, wisdom. To live in the now, is like the fire of spring, anew everyday, a new flower blossoms, a new seed grows. Do you want to live as the bird with wings or a wing with a bird that has no control of wear they are going, letting go of the past, taking off the winter garment by letting the repentance fling out of your life, and be anew, with a new perception allows growth and offers a happy, loving buoyant peaceful life as a new life everyday.

March 29, 2009
2:50 pm
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Wow...this is out of my element you all. I will keep reading though.

Helaing...and peace, I really like your interpretation of verse 7.

TEZ, thank you for the link to those men and women who are considered mystic. I noticed that "John of Patmos" was actually the desciple John who was sent to Patmos to die, but came back. I will peek in to read this thread and write when I can contribute.

March 29, 2009
6:19 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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Tez,

I like your explaination, "The initial point of all of the above is that letting go of 'preoccupation with self' which entails meeting all the demands of the brain for the mind's attention, produces ecstasy like drunken euphoria: "Wine! Wine! Wine!"

That is so true, also this is why there is a deep energy pull between two people when there is an attraction. I'm not talking about only a phyiscal attraction, there is the chemical, emotional and spiritual attraction as well, which can give that same "Wine, Wine, Wine, ephoria warm feeling, when two people know there is that attraction the law of energy is also there, as a magnetic pull almost, and people can be well aware of that feeling as it is happening, so long as your mind is not preoccupied by the everyday burdens and concerns.

Even in deep meditation same can accure, you are letting go of every single thought, every single worry, concern, pain, and this is when you also can obtain closest to that ecstactic ephoria feeling as well, which is why I would call it bouyant, peaceful, a blissful feeling and knowing. It is also then you realize that your (alright) everything around you is alright, even with the problems in the world it gives you that feeling and knowing that no matter what all is well knowing.

March 29, 2009
7:37 pm
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Thank you - each and every one of you for sharing your insights here.

My interpretations are only that - my own perceptions of what Omar is saying. Any likelihood that Omar had the same thing in mind has an extremely low probability rating, IMHO.

I enjoyed reading all of your interpretations very much. This time I might just sit back and read and learn from you'll.

All - please feel free to post any one of Omar's verses or any other mystical writings for that matter that particularly interests you.

I should have named this thread "In The Footsteps of the Mystics". It is a pity that I can't rename it.

March 29, 2009
7:44 pm
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One version has an extra verse thrown in, see below:

Verse 8

"Whether at NaishĂĄpĂşr or Babylon,

Whether the Cup with sweet or bitter run,

The Wine of Life keeps oozing drop by drop,

The Leaves of Life keep falling one by one.
"

Verse 9

"Morning a thousand Roses brings, you say;

Yes, but where leaves the Rose of yesterday?

And this first Summer month that brings the Rose

Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away."

While an earlier version has only:

Verse 8

"And look--a thousand Blossoms with the Day

Woke--and a thousand scatter'd into Clay:

And this first Summer Month that brings the Rose

Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away."

March 29, 2009
8:50 pm
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Tumbleweed8
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Just want to say I'll probably sit back, too, on these next verses. I have the older version being that I'm reading from my uncle's book. Either way, I'm unable to interpret these. Tez, If you want, couldn't you have this other thread you mentioned also? Today, for example I felt I should look up Rumi being I had heard about the poems etc. before. Probably a lot of us read other works which could possibly be discussed also on this other thread, but that is just my opinion.

March 30, 2009
9:57 am
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Tumbleweed8
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Not to monopolize this thread, but I have gone back and reread some of the posts which I sometimes need to do for clarification for myself. I see, Tez, where you did mention we could post about other quotes as well if we wanted to do that on here. Healing and Peace, I liked what you posted very much, also. I have learned a lot from your last couple of posts or hopefully I have perhaps I should say. I am but a novice in all of this, but I do have a thirst for learning for which I'm very grateful.

March 31, 2009
4:45 pm
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Haven't had much time in the past couple days to post but will later on this evening in regard to verse 8, and 9... have my thought on them but like Tez, only my own perception of what they mean...Healing and Peace

March 31, 2009
5:42 pm
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bevdee
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I have been reading this over and over, and what the feeling I have about it is - rebirth.

The earlier one is more succinct -
Verse 8

"And look--a thousand Blossoms with the Day
Woke--and a thousand scatter'd into Clay:
And this first Summer Month that brings the Rose
Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away."

A compressed version of this -

"Verse 8
"Whether at NaishĂĄpĂşr or Babylon,
Whether the Cup with sweet or bitter run,
The Wine of Life keeps oozing drop by drop,
The Leaves of Life keep falling one by one.

Verse 9
Morning a thousand Roses brings, you say;
Yes, but where leaves the Rose of yesterday?
And this first Summer month that brings the Rose
Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away."

Each day blooms new. Yesterday is gone, with the petals of roses turning to clay. (cycle of life)

But what the heck does this mean? Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away?

March 31, 2009
7:37 pm
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bevdee
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Oh ok - they were gods to the Zoroastrians

http://www.courses.vcu.edu/ENG.....ssary1.htm
JAMSHÝD [Jam´-sheed] Mythological Persian king. According to Firdausî he reigned seven hundred years. His palace was at Persepolis.

KAIKOBÁD [kye´-ko-bad] Mythical king.

Maybe it has something to do with shedding an old belief system.

I think the reasons for the discrepancies in verses are poetic license on the part of Edward Fitzgerald, who translated these works. I found that out when I googled "Rubaiyat of Omar Khyyam".

March 31, 2009
9:28 pm
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This one I’m not so sure about, my thoughts on Verse 8 are:

Verse 8

"Whether at NaishĂĄpĂşr or Babylon,

Meaning life goes on whether here or there",

"Whether the Cup with sweet or bitter run",

In good times or in troublesome times,

"The Wine of Life keeps oozing drop by drop",

Life goes on and on,

"The Leaves of Life keep falling one by one".

Like leaves on a vine, they fall one by one, and new leaves come whether in NaishĂĄpĂşr or Babylon, here or there, life goes on in good and bad times, we let go of the bad one by one, and the leaves of the vine grow new,(we grow anew) and life goes on here or there, meaning no matter where you are in life, life continues through the good and bad.

This is my guess on this or should I say how I understand it, maybe how I'd like to understand would be even better words.. ha ha.

March 31, 2009
9:36 pm
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Bevdee,

I like your perception on Verse 9, I kind of see it the same way, in the end where he say's "Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away", My guess would be that even as great as they are they can't even understand all the ways of life... But then again didn't one of them write about war, and so on, so maybe that has something to do with it as well... meaning the roses will grow even through hate.

Don't really know, I'd have to read it again really.

April 1, 2009
8:28 pm
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BevDee.

I like the translation that you quoted too.

"Verse 8

Whether at NaishĂĄpĂşr or Babylon,
Whether the Cup with sweet or bitter run,
The Wine of Life keeps oozing drop by drop,
The Leaves of Life keep falling one by one.

Verse 9

Morning a thousand Roses brings, you say;
Yes, but where leaves the Rose of yesterday?
And this first Summer month that brings the Rose
Shall take Jamshýd and Kaikobåd away."

Here is a link to a web page that presents Fitzgerald's Introduction to his second edition.

It makes interesting reading. According to Fitzgerald's introduction, Omar was reviled by the Sufis of his time. It seems that Omar was not a Sufi initiate as some authors claim, nor a mystic at all. The plot thickens.

April 2, 2009
3:20 am
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Hey,

If you look at Khyyam's life: the era into which he was born, and the contributions he made to science, philosophy and the arts....

Those contributions made big strides in mathematics and science possible. Because he was a freethinker not bound by conventional belief, and he was courageous enough to explore new beliefs, he must have had radical shifts in his consciousness.

If his philosophy and poetry challenged the status quo, since he thought outside the box, then yeah - the writings would have been ignored or suppressed.

Here is what I have been thinking about. Most of the stuff that was going on was happening in that part of the world. Muslims had it going on back then with science, mathematics, medicine. Xtianity took parts of Mithraism/Zoroastrianism to lure people to the new religion. Khayyam was born in the first part of the Age of Pisces. I took a cursory look in Wikipedia at the 11th century in the world. Lots of stuff going on- major political upheavals, religious stuff, wars, etc.

It's been pretty interesting to read about the Ages. Age of Pisces. Pisces is a sign of sacrifice. Monotheistic religion is about sacrifice. While most of the stuff I have read about Astrological ages is geared toward Xtianity, I read it as all religion. This link had an interesting viewpoint on how the Ages affected religion.

http://www.astrodynamics.net/a.....f+Aquarius

I liked this quote - "As we move from the Piscean age into Aquarius, the awakener, we are being shown that the Emperor doesn't have any clothes, that any unreality upon which we have based our religious foundations will be shattered in the upcoming years"

I thought of Einstein, whose beliefs about spirituality and a god also changed as he learned more about the science of the universe. He lived in the latter part of this Age. I wonder if there is a connection? I also wonder what was Omar really saying? Is Fitzgerald's translation accurate? What was Omar saying that sounds so much like the Nag Hammadi findings, and why was it so dadblamed scary that the writings were hidden or not circulated?

Tez, I'm sorry if I hijacked the thread- it wasn't my intention. Just my armchair commentary.

April 2, 2009
7:04 pm
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Hi all,

I am so excited. Can someone tell me where you all are (as far as scripture and what book)

and also explain to me how this post works...

Thank you for your posts... they really blessed my day 🙂

April 2, 2009
7:24 pm
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(((Mari)))

I'm going to let Tez answer your question as far as what book he is reading and all, but for me I have read Omar Khyyam in a book that is full of poems from all differant types of beliefs...it is full of differant sciptures and so on, so I enjoy reading and at times trying to figure out what the poems mean to me.

Glad you have enjoyed so far what has been posted, everyone has their own perception and there have been many things written here on the ACC board that lead me to learn more.

Look foward to hearing your views.

Healing and Peace

April 2, 2009
10:37 pm
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BevDee.

"Tez, I'm sorry if I hijacked the thread- it wasn't my intention. Just my armchair commentary."

I have no objections to having posts about anything here as long as 'good will' is present - has anyone else? Good will is obviously present in all posters on this thread. I say: Go for it, BevDee and others!

April 2, 2009
10:41 pm
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Healing.. and peace
2-Apr-09

"(((Mari)))

I'm going to let Tez answer your question as far as what book he is reading and all ... "

No I couldn't be so egocentric. 🙂

Welcome, Mari Kwante. Perhaps I can deflect the question to others? Any takers?

April 4, 2009
8:59 am
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Tumbleweed8
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As for me, I'm reading from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam rendered into English by Edward Fitzgerald. This is the 1937 edition. It says it is the first edition of the translation.

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