Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Rubaiyat of Omar Khyyam - anyone interested?
March 19, 2009
6:20 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

I

AWAKE! for Morning

in the Bowl of Night

Has flung the Stone that

puts the Stars to Flight:

And Lo! the Hunter of

the East has caught

The Sultan's Turret in a

Noose of Light.

II

Dreaming when Dawn's Left

Hand was in the Sky

I heard a Voice within the

Tavern cry,

'Awake, my Little ones,

and fill the Cup

'Before Life's Liquor in its

Cup be dry.'

III

And, as the Cock crew, those

who stood before

The Tavern shouted...:... 'Open

then the Door!

'You know how little

while we have to stay,

'And, once departed, may

return no more.'

IV

Now the New Year reviving

old Desires,

The thoughtful Soul to Sol-

itude retires,

Where the WHITE HAND

OF MOSES on the Bough

Puts out, and Jesus from the

Ground suspires.

Is anyone interested in discussing their perceptions of the deeper meaning to be found in the above four verses from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam of Kaispar?

March 20, 2009
3:28 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Very interesting, these are my thoughts:

I:

Perhaps no more light only darkness; or, darkness is hiding in light. I also think of the Islamic symbol that Obama used for his campaign (but no reference to Obama here).

A stone that is flung has knocked the stars down from heaven to bring on darkness...for those who follow the stars, perhaps no direction.

The Hunter from the East could refer to a country, not sure which one though; which ever country it is though has the favor of the Islamic countries.

II:

Don't slumber, be watchful. Make the best use of the time one has left.

III: Not sure about this one.

IV: Not sure I understand the part about Moses, but the part about Jesus seems to say He didn't die but is still breathing. Death from the ground did not hold Him, nor the powers of Hell.

March 20, 2009
3:31 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

one more thought:
in II:

The Hunter of the East could refer to the Bethlehem star in the East that guided the wise men to the place of Jesus's birth. Thus, we have Christianity, and Judaism, and Islamic beliefs in constant battle.

Wow Tez, what are your thoughts about what all of this could mean?

March 21, 2009
3:42 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Hi On My Way.

Thanks for your interest.

All the way through this poem, I see at least two meanings both at different levels, one material and the other(s) deeply spiritual.

"AWAKE! for Morning
in the Bowl of Night
Has flung the Stone that
puts the Stars to Flight:"

The 'Stone' I see as a metaphor for both the physical sun and the enlightened 'vision' found in dawn meditation (Omar was a Sufi initiate).

"the Bowl of Night" is both literal darkness and the deluded state of consciousness that afflicts us all.

"the Stars to Flight" bathed in the sun's light the stars disappear; under the light of wisdom and enlightened vision the life's impermanent physical 'objects' disappear into a flurry of super dependent energy patterns within in the quantum field.

"And Lo! the Hunter of
the East"
the sun; the mystical light of higher ways of knowing found in the East.

" has caught
The Sultan's Turret in a
Noose of Light."

The sun has ringed the Sultan's Turret with light; the mind of the Sultan in deep dawn meditation
has shed its ego boundaries and is seeing anew that which really 'is'.

Hey, I'll get back on the next verse. I'm off dancing now.

March 21, 2009
8:10 am
Avatar
Tumbleweed8
Member
Members

Members
Forum Posts: 29
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Right before that on page 66 is the verse my uncle quoted to me daily, The moving finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all they Tears wash out a Word of it.

March 21, 2009
8:12 am
Avatar
Tumbleweed8
Member
Members

Members
Forum Posts: 29
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oops, that should by thy Tears.

March 24, 2009
12:31 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Tumbleweed8

Yes, verse #51 is truly beautiful. It poignantly warns us of the indelible nature of our thoughts, intentions and actions on future events.

Verse #51

"The moving finger writes;

and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety

nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel

half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out

a Word of it.

The question is who is doing the writing?

Below is a verse # 42 that I particularly like also:

Verse #42

" Waste not your Hour, nor in the vain pursuit

Of This and That endeavor and dispute;

Better be merry with the fruitful Grape

Than sadden after none, or bitter, fruit."
- Omar Khayyam

"Commentary by Ivan M. Granger

Another verse by Omar Khayyam that can easily be misunderstood as praise of drunkenness and lethargy.

But remember that Omar Khayyam was a Sufi initiate. The wine or "Grape" he refers to is the celestial drink of mystics that makes one "merry" with the bliss of ecstatic union.

Better to be lost in holy bliss than to waste your limited time on Earth in debates and controversy, whether spiritual or political. The intellect alone cannot perceive its own origin or its aim, or even truly grasp knowledge. Use the intellect; don't let it use you.

It is only through divine union, the drinking of "the fruitful Grape," that reality is clearly perceived and understood. Every other effort, without that organizing clarity and joy, ultimately leads to disappointment, "bitter fruit.""

March 24, 2009
10:00 am
Avatar
Tumbleweed8
Member
Members

Members
Forum Posts: 29
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thankyou, Tez. I like the verse you wrote about, also, and thankyou for clarifying it because I, too, didn't undertand it correctly. Some of them I don't understand and I know it is possible to buy a companion book which explains all the verses, but I have not done so. I have often thought it might be a good idea. The verse I wrote about which my uncle quoted nearly everyday when he was with us, I believe meant a lot to him. He was married to my aunt whom he loved very much, but he was away from home a lot working on the railroad which he said was the cause of the marriage breakup. After the breakup he didn't see his three living children again. I just interpreted his experience having something to do with why he related to that verse. Of course, I could be wrong and he may have only wanted to let me know the importance of those words however it would relate to me in my life. I didn't get it then when I was young, but now I have learned from it the way it speaks to me. I try to watch how I speak because once it is out there, it can't be taken back and if it was hurtful only an apology can be offerred after which one must move on. That is how it seems to speak to me.

March 24, 2009
10:05 am
Avatar
Tumbleweed8
Member
Members

Members
Forum Posts: 29
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The commentary by Ivan M. Granger is an interesting idea because I wonder if several of them were written based on the individual's understanding.

March 24, 2009
5:21 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Tumbleweed8

What is particularly important, I think, is to "remember that Omar Khayyam was a Sufi initiate"(Grainger's words). Therefore, I suspect, every verse will possibly have at least two meanings; a mystical one and a temporal one. Looking for the mystical meaning can be quite rewarding, I feel.

Take Verse #51 for example:

"The moving finger writes;

and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety

nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel

half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out

a Word of it.

The question is who is doing the writing? I see that apart from your very legitimate interpretation of the meaning of this verse, I see another. Perhaps Omar is referring to the Laws of Karma. Once we perform an action with intent we set in motion a cause that, when the conditions are right, will produce a particular consequence and no amount of other actions no matter how opposite the intent, can eliminate this particular consequence. Given the right conditions apple trees produce apples, never oranges.

March 24, 2009
5:30 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

on my way

On the 20-Mar-09 you wrote:

"The Hunter of the East could refer to the Bethlehem star in the East that guided the wise men to the place of Jesus's birth. Thus, we have Christianity, and Judaism, and Islamic beliefs in constant battle.

Wow Tez, what are your thoughts about what all of this could mean?"

Well, further to what I wrote, according to Grainger, this verse:

"Now the New Year reviving

old Desires,

The thoughtful Soul to Sol-

itude retires,

Where the WHITE HAND

OF MOSES on the Bough

Puts out, and Jesus from the

Ground suspires."

means:

"This verse is a recognition of the turning of the wheel of life and what we choose to do with each renewal.

He starts off with, "Now the New Year reviving old Desires." Why does the New Year revive old desires? The new year is a rebirth of the seasons, signalling a new cycle in our lives. If we don't apply conscious willpower, however, we instinctively follow the patterns we set in the previous year. So, with the new year, we are reborn, but so too are our old habits and old desires.

But "The thoughtful Soul to Solitude retires." We always have a choice: We can give in to those old, often limiting patterns, getting caught up in the frantic activity and mental ruts of satisfying those old desires; or we can choose to let go of those compulsions and impulses and, instead, turn inward in contemplation, in meditation, in prayer. We can step out of the hustle and bustle of the hungry mind and retire to peaceful solitude.

Solitude, here, is not isolation or separation from others. For the mystic, true solitude is oneness, unity, wholeness -- whether or not other people are around. In this solitude, we encounter the living presence of the Divine, which Omar Khayyam evokes with the sacred figures of Moses and Jesus.

The "Bough" mentioned is the Tree of Life, which we find growing within us. Here we discover the guiding "White Hand of Moses." Moses represents awareness of the Divine Law and, although we have turned inward, we are being freed from the captivity of the limited awareness and false identity that had been held in place by those old mental patterns. The journey inward is a journey outward, the true exodus.

The closing line "and Jesus from the Ground suspires" is especially powerful. This breath, this suspiring is significant. Omar Khayyam is, of course, writing from a Muslim perspective, and in Muslim mystical traditions Jesus is often associated with healing, life-giving breath. To Muslims, Jesus embodies the breath of life, the breath of God. So, even though Jesus is in the ground, buried in the tomb (or born in the cave), we discover that he breathes! After feeling dead, no matter how we have stumbled or struggled, we discover new life buried secretly within us, we discover the Divine is breathing life into us. And we are that breath!"

March 24, 2009
7:55 pm
Avatar
Tumbleweed8
Member
Members

Members
Forum Posts: 29
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thankyou, Tez, I realize I didn't answer on who was writing the verse. I have to read in the beginning of the book I have which was my uncle's Rubaiyat. I tried looking up a little on the web about possible other interpretations, but didn't take time to really look into each site which came up. I do realize I was interpreting the verse in terms of karma so I'm glad you verified that for me. That is how I tend to see a lot of things in life and I wish I had understood this earlier in life, but we can't go back and I think it takes time and experiences to understand things better. Plus, I need to do much more reading.

March 24, 2009
10:17 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

>> To Muslims, Jesus embodies the breath of life, the breath of God.

I cant let someone say something silly like that and not point it out. This is 100% false. To Muslims, Jesus was a plain human messenger of Allah. Not sure who this "Ivan Granger" is, who wrote this analysis or how much he knows about Islam.

What is the real position of Islam on Jesus? Learn more about: Jesus in Islam on Wikipedia

March 24, 2009
10:27 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

To add to that: Muslims have a hostile view of Christianity. Quran 48:13 says that if anyone (including Christians) refuses to believe that Muhammed is a messenger of God, they'll all burn in Hellfire.

Muhammed the pedophile was clever because he came up and said "Christianity is outdated, I'm the new messenger".

March 25, 2009
4:30 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

guest_guest
24-Mar-09

Muhammed the pedophile was clever because he came up and said "Christianity is outdated, I'm the new messenger".

Would you mind not making such derogatory remarks about such a great man? Millions of Muslims would be most offended to hear your vile remarks.

Have you a personal problem? Are you not aware how offensive your remarks are to the sensitivities of others? This is symptomatic of Asperger's Syndrome. I seem to vaguely remember that you mentioned suffering from this illness. Perhaps this might excuse your obnoxious behavior here and elsewhere. But if this is true then you may need to seek help in a hurry.

March 25, 2009
4:45 am
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Guest_guest.

I see that you are determined to follow me around causing difficulties in every thread that I create. You force peace loving people interested in thread topics to leave.

Would you mind not doing that? If your illness makes this impossible, then would you mind leaving this thread altogether?

March 25, 2009
8:03 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Muhammed married 9 year old Aisha when he was 54. He was attracted to her when she was just 6 years old.

He had SEX with a 9 year old girl when he was 54. You dont think that makes him a pedophile?

>> Would you mind not doing that? If your illness makes this impossible, then would you mind leaving this thread altogether?

Oh really? Ok - if you leave all the threads I have made, then I'll leave the ones you made. Deal?

March 25, 2009
8:05 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

>> Are you not aware how offensive your remarks are to the sensitivities of others? This is symptomatic of Asperger's Syndrome.

No, I am very aware of what my remarks are doing but I dont let that stop me from telling the truth.

Was Galileo also suffering due to Asperger's because he told the world it wasnt flat and they all became upset?

So yea Mr. NRA, if you gtfo out of my threads, I'll leave your threads too. Deal?

March 25, 2009
8:32 am
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Ok, you can stay in my Reincarnation thread because I'm not afraid of opposing views. I like to debate and talk about stuff.

I dont upset or angry like a little girl if someone opposes my opinions with facts and logic. You were a girl in your past life so I guess that explains your sensitive behavior.

Any other thread of mine is also ok for you to stay in unless I specifically tell you to leave it and then you will leave it. Understood?

March 25, 2009
3:38 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am really enjoying reading this thread, it is so poetic and beautiful!

I especially agree with this though:

"Better to be lost in holy bliss than to waste your limited time on Earth in debates and controversy, whether spiritual or political. The intellect alone cannot perceive its own origin or its aim, or even truly grasp knowledge. Use the intellect; don't let it use you."

March 25, 2009
6:40 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

On my way.

Thanks for your expression of appreciation of the beauty of the Rubaiyat verses.

You wrote:

"Better to be lost in holy bliss

than to waste your limited time on Earth
in debates and controversy,
whether spiritual or political.
The intellect alone cannot perceive its own origin or its aim,
or even truly grasp knowledge.
Use the intellect;
don't let it use you."

That is so profound. Did you write that?

March 25, 2009
7:16 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

>> That is so profound. Did you write that?

No, you copy pasted that in your reply to Tumbleweed8 yesterday. It was written by this Ivan Granger guy.

March 25, 2009
7:17 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,

It is very eloquent, isn't it? However, no I did not write it. To be able to take a feeling or thoughts and actions such as debating and controversy as stated in this quote, and to be able to express it in this manner, absolutely amazes me. I actually copied this quote from your post up above. To be certain, there is much debate and controversy these days in the spiritual and political arena, and this quote provided a quiet peace in the midst of such a tumultuous subject for me. There is something abou the way it is written. So many Americans are constantly debating about our gov't. To be honest, we have lost our pride, as it is disheartening to lose that pride in one's country and leadership. People allow thier "intellect to use them" rather than "using their intellect". I see many spiralling out of control because of this...in their thoughts, then it affects their moods. But I love this quote because it takes something that at times has a negative impact on some, and expresses it in a very beautiful, way.

March 25, 2009
7:18 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

guest!

Please go read what I wrote to you in your diary thread!

March 25, 2009
7:21 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Site Coordinator.

Guest_guest wrote to me above:

"Oh really? Ok - if you leave all the threads I have made, then I'll leave the ones you made. Deal?"

Please check that what I am about to write is true:

1. Guest_guest followed me to my new Omar Khayyam thread and is disrupting it with nasty irrelevant remarks?

2. I have not gone anywhere near G_g's Diary of Guest_guest thread since 21-Jan-09, well over two months.

3. I have not gone anywhere near G_g's "Tibet under the Dalai Lamas: Tales of Slavery, Torture and Serfdom thread" since the 18th Feb-09, well over a month now?

4. I have never ever visited G_g's "How do you make YOUR cheap quick meals" thread at all?

5. I have avoided all other threads where G_g posts.

6. G_g has never failed to disrupt any thread that I have started in recent times with his extreme negativity and defamatory remarks and cuts and pastes.

7. He has engaged me in a what only be described as a very nasty interchange on TBT's "# OK - as a tempoary atheist/agnostic....." thread. TBT and just about every one else has fled that thread now. I restrict my exchanges with him to this site alone until he started disrupting this thread.

8. I have not had such a persistent ongoing attack on my posts from anyone else in the 10+ years that I have been posting here.

Guest_guest has made my visits here untenable to the extent that I no longer feel able to share sacred beliefs of a personal nature with anyone for fear of having Guest_guest disrupt my interchanges with nice people such as OMW, Healing.. and peace, BevDee, Littlespirit, MsGuide, peace4all, Marypoppins and many others. His argumentative, malicious, win/lose one-up-man-ship games drive everyone away from my threads. This I believe is his objective in disrupting my threads.

I know that in the past I have engaged Christians in debate. I did this seeking answers for myself until the realizations came home to me regarding the pain I was unknowingly inflicting on others. Guest_guest knows only too well what pain he is causing others here. That's his aim and objective, IMHO - to drive them away from my threads by multiple nasty posts as seen above

To solve this problem you would need the wisdom of King Solomon.

If I may, I would like to make a suggestion to you. Rather than you wasting untold hours scanning through posts over the last 10 years trying to decide whose 'right' or whose in the 'wrong', I suggest that you ban both Guest_guest and myself permanently from this AAC site.

I further suggest that you watch carefully that neither he nor I appear here again under another nickname. I certainly won't do that. But to be fair, I include myself in that suggestion.

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 247
Currently Online:
30
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 110935
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38541
Posts: 714220
Newest Members:
jessicawales, documentsonline, SafeWork, thomasalina, genericsmartdrugs, 才艺
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer