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Religion and Science
May 28, 2006
12:01 pm
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Yea but it says the natural function of the women is being an object of lust. You purposely didnt talk about it, avoided it. Because you know what I said is true.

See, the verse isnt worded perfectly. If it isnt perfect, its not from God.

May 28, 2006
12:02 pm
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oh , one more tidbit...the chapter you took this verse from is about consequences. read the WHOLE chapter..and while you are at it, read Romans 8:28. And in Ephesians it talks about men and women, and in Matthew, Jesus talks about women, women were some of his dearest friends. 🙂

May 28, 2006
12:03 pm
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The bible does not say that...your skeptics bible must say that.

May 28, 2006
12:04 pm
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tylenol and church next on my list.

later.

May 28, 2006
12:11 pm
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See you avoided the verse again. What does that prove? I'm SO glad I made it out of my religion! waaowee.

ok then.. have a nice day at church. i gotta get a haircut and some other stuff.

May 28, 2006
12:19 pm
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okey dokey. yeah if i said it once, i'll say it again.. "RELIGION" sucks.

May 28, 2006
12:47 pm
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I read the King James Version

Romans makes an interesting read.

Here is the King James Version

Romans 1

22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Garfield

May 28, 2006
12:59 pm
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i dont know if reading the whole thing changes the meaning of that certain verse

May 28, 2006
2:28 pm
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hey guest,

good thread. good bait. what else ya got?

May 28, 2006
2:44 pm
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guest

{Romans: -- Paul explains that "the natural use" of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. 1:27 )

Romans
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,

It says their women did change the naturel use into that which is against nature and likewise the men..

Sorry but I do not get this whole issue.

Garfield

May 28, 2006
3:43 pm
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Garfield,

{It says their women did change the naturel use into that which is against nature and likewise the men..}

What an excellent answer for the meaning of the "natural use" phrase, which simply refers to heterosexual sex.

May 28, 2006
3:54 pm
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omw,

Thanks for watching out for me. :o)

guest,

Here's an example of science in religion: The Bible says to do what Jesus says, and you'll know it's from God. Jesus said that a good tree produces good fruit, and also to pray to our Heavenly Father and let him know our wants, needs, etc.

I put this to the test. I start praying regularly, and I start to feel happier inside, more at peace, calmer, more confident.

Then I stop doing so for a while, and I feel unhappier, more nervous, more irritable, etc.

Conclusion? I ran my own "experiment", if you will. I learned for myself that prayer produces good fruits, so it's from God. The scientific method prevails again!

May 28, 2006
4:49 pm
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"natural use of the woman" as object of lust - seems to me derogatory. Anyway, this isnt a big deal. God should have worded it better and not given excuses to people to pick out mistakes.

The Bible also says Epilepsy is caused by the devil. What do you guys say about that?

Seeker

>> Here's an example of science in religion: The Bible says to do what Jesus says, and you'll know it's from God. < < This isnt science, its just RELIGION. You're afraid of using the correct word because it has lost its merit and you use the word "science" instead. great work huh. The kittens in my monitor are also science. Once you do what the KiBle says, you'll know its from the Kittens. There you go. Haa! That was NOT science sorry. If people in Hinduism follow the Gita and found it works for them, is that also a successful "experiment"? What about Islam and Judaism? Ofcourse you're not the only one who experiences these kinds of "experiments". Plus you'll find athiests who'll say they're happier after leaving religion - thats also a valid experiment, right? Open your eyes a little bit and look around at others too.

May 28, 2006
9:32 pm
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Guest_guest.

Ask 'em what was the scientific journal in which their experimental findings were published. Ask 'em for references to peer reviews in these journals regarding their published scientific work.

If they can't answer you then their 'knowledge' isn't scientific - it is subjective in the extreme.

Even D'Adamo's views expressed in his book aren't scientific and he openly proclaims and declares this fact.

What D'Adamo wants is science to enter into the domain as defined in his book and to come up with scientific findings, hypotheses, theories, experiments, data analyses based upon statistical probabilities, peer reviews of published works, experimental replications etc, etc.

That's science!

May 28, 2006
9:44 pm
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Guest_guest.

I guess that someone's gotta stick up fer yah bro!

It may iz well be me. I always was a contrary cuss. 🙂

May 28, 2006
10:17 pm
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Ok, guys, play nice!

Guest, I feel where you are coming from. Really, I am a passionate eviscerator of dogma, and I can join you in that mission because that holy mission was given to me by God.:))

It isn't very fruitful to pick on poor old Ezekiel and such, because those or more like poetic-shamanic vision things. It is valid to criticize and analyze those passages as their own thing, but you can't really attack the entire faith system based on those passages, because Christianity is deeper than any particular passages in any particular version of the bible.

The way to go is to pick it apart bit by bit. Start with the Creation story, and discredite literal interpretations of Genesis, and then go on to, Leviticus, say and demonstrate that some of those passages are grossly inconsistent with modern medicine as well as inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus.

If you use textual analysis, you can even demosnstreat that some parts of the Bible represent the word of Jesus, while other parts seem to be falsifications, putting words in Jesus' mouth that he would never go for.

By careful dissection we can tease the authentic moral and spiritual teachings from the bible and separate them from much of the mumbo-jumbo. I don't have to believe that Eve was made from a piece of Adam's rib in order to believe in "thou Shalt not Kill." One thing makes perfect sense, and the other seems kind of silly. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

For me, personally, the 10 Commandemnets, and espcially the teachings of Jesus are the best things about the Bible.

What other people have to say about Jesus? The worst part.

May 28, 2006
10:21 pm
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guest,

Here's a definition of "science":

The word science is from the Latin word scientia, which means "to know" or "knowledge".

There might be different ways of getting to know something. With things of this universe, it is by experimentation, developing and testing hypotheses against observation, and keeping what works and discarding what doesn't.

With things not of this universe, that can't be directly observed or measured (like God), you must resort to other methods, as I described earlier.

Science in religion might look different from science in, well, science, but different subject matters merit different approaches.

Enough said.

May 28, 2006
10:31 pm
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Do not alternate being angry and controlling with being "sweet" and "affectionate." That is a way to injure people's minds, and it is wrong.

Do not try to make her think that she is crazy, or that other people think she is crazy.

So not tell lies about her to make yourself look better.

Do not call her names that degrade her sexually. That includes many four letter names.

Do not ever give her a reason to think she needs to be afraid of you.

Do not make her children afraid.

Do not lay a hand on her or on her children in anger. Really, I mean it.

No pushing, no slapping, no hair pulling, no grabbing by the neck, no punching, or pinching or throwing things. No hitting with belts, straps, sticks, spoons.

Even raising your hand, as if to pantomime the possibility of intended hitting is absolutely forbidden. Don't even talk about it.

Absolutely no angry touching. None,zip, zilch, never, ever, under any circumstances.

May 28, 2006
10:31 pm
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Oops, cross post--you know this stuff makes me twitchy.

May 28, 2006
10:35 pm
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guest,

I'll answer here you question from the other thread about the jazz record.

I think you were talking about "50 Years of the Jazz Guitar". I have it on a record (I got it 30 years ago), but I've seen it on ebay on CD. I don't know where you might be able to download it. I wish you good luck in finding it. It's a really good record.

So are you a musician, then?

May 29, 2006
12:23 am
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Tez, who are you referring too? "ask em"?

May 29, 2006
10:04 am
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yep.WD..the OT and the NT are 2 totally different animals!!

May 29, 2006
11:37 am
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Tez

thanks :D. I was alone for a while on the battlefront, doing all the clinging and clanging myself. You know I dont participate in this type of stuff much, but peek in every now and then.

I wish I could read the book but I dont feel like reading even my self-help books (taking a break from that). I'm sure its good!

WorriedDad_____, you and Tez are way above my level. I dont have the skills, knowledge or even interest to do the debate consistently. All I do is peek in here and there with my simple logics what I can do. So I do my little part (in the catwalk [song: "I'm so sexy"]). But yea, you're right, there's good stuff in the Bible too. That skeptics site also shows that.

Seeker_______, thanks for the title, I couldnt find the CD :(. Its cool though. I'll search some other time on ebay (not there right now). I'm a beginner musician, I can play any instrument but not well. I want to commit now to learn to play superbly. I got my music flash cards out and am gonna start working on them.

May 29, 2006
1:36 pm
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Seekerw

Thanks for the reply. I had problems with my internet. GOSH it's frustrating.

Guest-Guest

Seems like the see has calmed. Your honesty is appreciated.

Love

Garfield

May 29, 2006
4:16 pm
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Food for thought:
The speed of light is slowing down...we are going backwards from order to disorder.

There is no such thing as "random numbers"...only pseudo random #'s... science has proven that the earth was created in 6 days.
16 billion years X 365 =6,000,000,000,000.
6 x 10tothe second power divided by 10to the second power = 6days.
on God's clock this puts the 1'st day at 8 million years...he's God he can take as long as he wants.

If you take the original Hebrew text of Genesis the first chapter...true meaning lies there.

Check out the Setterfield/Norman Analysis.

Due to Planck length of time being indivisible we are in a digital simulation.

Oceans have been proven to only be a few thousand years old.

There are only a few thousand years of dust on the moon.

There's more........

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