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Regarding the election of President-Elect Barack Obama.......
November 18, 2008
8:26 pm
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Tiger Trainer
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thanks for the info, seekerw

November 18, 2008
9:31 pm
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Seek,

normally I would agree with you that calling "Dubya" "Wanker" is tacky and not conducive to responding to things in a mature way. But one gets frustrated. The man is a war criminal, should have been impeached years ago, and has the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians on his hands (not to mention the thousands of US servicepeople who were sent to invade an occupy a country against whom no declaration of war has yet been made, 5 years later).

He should be in jail. Calling him "Wanker" is a very weak substitute, I agree.

November 19, 2008
12:14 am
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I thought Dubya stood for Warmonger.

I don't see calling someone a masturbator in the same category as casting racial slurs on a person. Jerk-off vs Ni**er. Nope, doesn't pack the same wallop at all.

He's not just pulling his pud, though. He is a war criminal, and I am sure he made money off this war, while the taxpayers whose money funded it have been brought to their knees by his economics. If he has no conscience about any of that, he is a psychopath. IMO.

November 19, 2008
4:21 am
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Of course no conscience, Bevdee. That was poisoned out decades ago by serious (& admitted) alcohol abuse.

A typical "dry alcoholic" with obvious brain-damage ... inarticulate, with slurred speech & woeful cultural ignorance ... institutionalising torture ... killing thousands of innocent people he makes no attempt to understand ...

Why would millions want such a figurehead, bringing worldwide moral opprobrium?

November 19, 2008
7:16 am
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Hi bev and gazelle,

I keep waiting for a delegation of mental health professionals to descend on Washington and remove the incumbent from office. In my dreams.

Speaking of dreams, and CommonDreams here's a test... trying to make a link to my favourite progressive news website.

November 19, 2008
7:20 am
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Hmmm, didn't quite work. But, thanks Guest for putting me on the trail. I'll get there, or my name's not kroika :o)

November 19, 2008
8:23 am
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Hey I third ALL of that ((bevdee, gazelle, Kroika))

Why play nice with a person who really doesn't give a damn about what he did to your country, other countries, and the lies he continues to support, in the name of world domination and greed!?

It's similar to an abused wife, supporting her monster H, no matter what bruatality he puts apon her.

Keep the blinders on, and things will only get worse.

November 19, 2008
11:50 am
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MsG, your comment about the similarity of an abused wife reminded me of this article. Since I haven't got the link thing down pat yet.... here is the whole article, which is at http://www.commondreams.org/vi.....911-28.htm

Published on Sunday, September 11, 2005 by CommonDreams.org

America's Battered Wife Syndrome

by Gail Thomas

Dear America,

As a friend of the family I can’t sit back and watch you do this to yourself without saying something. Consider this a long distance intervention.

Your man is no good. He treats you like crap, lies to you, abuses you, bullies you, exploits you, takes your money. As a friend I want to tell you that you deserve better. You deserve a person that treats you with respect, cares about your welfare, and your children’s welfare, but that’s not George and it never will be.

Do you tell yourself that he’ll stop, or that it won’t get worse? He won’t ever stop, every insult, injury and death he has caused are a line that once crossed will never be uncrossed. Forget the dream. You will never have the American dream with George. You have to forget about what might have been, what George might have been, and realise that at the end of the day you are what you do, and look at George’s track record.

Notice how he’s alienated all your friends? Who can blame them, they can’t understand why you stay with him when he treats you like shit and embarrasses you in front of everybody. The more his public behaviour overshadows yours, The more doubt creeps over them, they wonder if they knew you as well as they thought they did. You seem to have changed - if you condone his behaviour- and your silence can create the impression that you do. People are more inclined to take things at face value when they feel alienated. Your friends remember the good times you had together, the heroic battles you fought together, all of the intricate interweavings between their families and yours through time and space. Do you even recognise yourself anymore America? He is a drunken, coke-addled loser and he always will be, you should kick him out of your house today before he can destroy any more members of your family, your history, your culture, before he decimates your bank account so irretrievably that China and Saudi Arabia repossess all your stuff.

YOU CAN DO BETTER! You are an amazing country, beautiful, interesting, funny, positively glamorous, you wouldn’t stay single for five minutes, you know that suitors would be competing for your affections and any one of them would be ten times better than George. And how can you stand his god-awful Stepford’s answer to Marie-Antoinette mother, piping up with another casual atrocity every time she opens her mouth.

Because of George and his friends global warming is now upon us - I know what it has cost your family already, combined with George’s complete uselessness and indifference in a crisis. It would probably now be possible for a mathematician to calculate exactly how much of all of our futures we are losing for every minute you stay with that sick,twisted, idiot.

I see you doing what everyone in your position does - you end up looking to the perpetrator for comfort because theres no one else left, and look at how he reacts for Christ’s sake, look at what he did to New Orleans, and you should know that yet again he did it in front of all of your friends, all of us saw nothing happening whilst thousands died, all of us heard Ray Negen and the president of Jefferson Parish (I must heard him 30+ times now and I still cry every time) and all of us heard George’s bloody mother. We have been trying to help and he won’t let us. We are all appalled and aghast, it breaks our hearts to see him hurting you like this, and you not fighting back, you just take it and take it as it slowly spirals down into the pits of hell. What will it take America, will you let him kill you before you’ll kick him out? This is not rhetoric America, he is killing you every day you stay with him. If I had described your relationship with George to you back when you were still with Bill you never would have believed me. He degrades you in little increments, every day he erodes your assets as well as your dignity, your reputation, your legacy and your life America.

All of our TV crews were rescuing survivors as they filmed the devastation because there was nobody else there to help them, all of us saw the victims being treated like some sudden new insurgency. with suspicion and hostility. Those poor people, the heart & soul of New Orleans, the very people whose culture and history made New Orleans beloved around the world, He just left your brothers and sisters to die. Can you really continue in your relationship with George after this? There is a degree at which cognitive dissonance becomes outright delusion. He is a maniac, he is destroying your life, please, please leave him, just leave him, only you have the power to make it stop.

He is selling out your family business, if you let him continue like this how are you going to live? How are you going to feed your children, what happens if you get ill? Everything he has ever touched has turned to shit, he puts any idiot that’ll kiss his ass into positions of power and New Orleans is the result. Kick him out America! Do it today! I know it feels like you would be leaping into a void, but I promise you, you will be leaping out of one. Your friends will come back as soon as they see you are back to your old self, they really miss you. I know that less than 36% of your heart is still in it. Go with the 67% of you, that 36% is just that vestigial, primitive part of the brain that clings to the familiar no matter how badly the familiar sucks.

It all comes down to you, America. I know no-one likes other people passing comment on their relationships but this is an extreme situation. You are in very real danger, he is hurting you everyday and he is hurting us, your friends as well. But only you can make it stop. We are all rooting for you, although we don’t get to talk to you very often anymore, because he cuts us off from you. We are on your side, we will all be over the moon the day you finally kick him out. You know he really should be thrown in jail for the things he has done to you. Him and all of his gangster friends.

Please, please, do it America, you know I am right. If not for yourself then do it for your brothers and sisters and children. Do it before he kills any more of your family or anyone else’s. We are all really worried for your welfare.

Your friend,

Gail

Gail Thomas is am a British/ Australian dual national living in Sydney with her American partner. Her website is http:// http://www.12thharmonic.com

November 19, 2008
12:29 pm
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Uh oh, here we go...... this was by the Associated Press this morning.........

"CAIRO, Egypt – Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader used a racial epithet to insult Barack Obama in a message posted Wednesday, describing the president-elect in demeaning terms that imply he does the bidding of whites.

The message appeared chiefly aimed at persuading Muslims and Arabs that Obama does not represent a change in U.S. policies. Ayman al-Zawahri said in the message, which appeared on militant Web sites, that Obama is "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" like Malcolm X, the 1960s African-American rights leader.

In al-Qaida's first response to Obama's victory, al-Zawahri also called the president-elect — along with secretaries of state Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice — "house negroes."

Speaking in Arabic, al-Zawahri uses the term "abeed al-beit," which literally translates as "house slaves." But al-Qaida supplied English subtitles of his speech that included the translation as "house negroes."

The message also includes old footage of speeches by Malcolm X in which he explains the term, saying black slaves who worked in their white masters' house were more servile than those who worked in the fields. Malcolm X used the term to criticize black leaders he accused of not standing up to whites.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the latest message was just "more despicable comments from a terrorist."

The 11-minute 23-second video features the audio message by al-Zawahri, who appears only in a still image, along with other images, including one of Obama wearing a Jewish skullcap as he meets with Jewish leaders. In his speech, al-Zawahri refers to a Nov. 5 U.S. airstrike attack in Afghanistan, meaning the video was made after that date.

Al-Zawahri said Obama's election has not changed American policies he said are aimed at oppressing Muslims and others.

"America has put on a new face, but its heart full of hate, mind drowning in greed, and spirit which spreads evil, murder, repression and despotism continue to be the same as always," the deputy of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden said.

He said Obama's plan to shift troops to Afghanistan is doomed to failure, because Afghans will resist.

"Be aware that the dogs of Afghanistan have found the flesh of your soldiers to be delicious, so send thousands after thousands to them," he said.

Al-Zawahri did not threaten specific attacks, but warned Obama that he was "facing a Jihadi (holy war) awakening and renaissance which is shaking the pillars of the entire Islamic world; and this is the fact which you and your government and country refuse to recognize and pretend not to see."

He said Obama's victory showed Americans acknowledged that President George W. Bush's policies were a failure and that the result was an "admission of defeat in Iraq."

But Obama's professions of support for Israel during the election campaign "confirmed to the Ummah (Islamic world) that you have chosen a stance of hostility to Islam and Muslims," al-Zawahri said."

I was wondering what was going to happen and what the reaction would be.

sd

November 19, 2008
7:36 pm
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Just to get a few statements in before I forget. It matters where he was born because the Founding Fathers made it matter. The person running for president must be 35 years of age and born in the United States. It was to keep other governments from sending someone in and was mainly aimed against England at the time it was done.

As far as Obama's middle name being Hussein...I saw a blurb on tv in which he said it was given to him by someone who obviously didn't know he would be running for President someday. I will state again. I did not vote for him and would not vote for him if given another chance but he hasn't done anything I find offensive and I have been quite impressed with him since the election. And as far as him being assassinated that is the WORST thing that could happen in this country.

1. I would create a race war and riots.

2. It would turn him into a martyr. I have said many times JFK would not have been remembered so kindly by history if he had not been assassinated. My fervent prayer is that he safely serves his four years and in four years we are given a better choice on all sides.

Bitsy

November 21, 2008
2:15 am
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Tiger Trainer,

You are most welcome for the info. You seem to be the only one here who agrees with even a smidgen of what I've said on this thread.

Bevdee,

I'd reply to what you said, but I'm burned out on this discussion and am tired of the debate here. I need a break.

Seeker

November 21, 2008
7:40 am
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Seeker,

My guess is that you probably didn't want a debate, but confirmation of your own opinions.

November 21, 2008
10:42 am
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yes.it's hard to face the fact the core of our convictions and beliefs are mislead.

Kroika, great article...all things are relative. Especially in the "National House"

I wonder if living in the Whitehouse turns a woman into a Stepford Wife? Maybe there's some gas, or "white noise" in the air to make it so?hehe.

November 21, 2008
2:30 pm
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bevdee,

I have full confidence in my beliefs; I don't need anybody else to confirm them. However, many of my original points about Obama were not addressed by anybody else, and hardly anybody else agreed with me on those that were addressed. It was nice to know that I had a positive impact on somebody here.

It's clear that I'm the only conservative on this thread. From my prior experiences, I think I'm the only one on this whole site.

bevdee, how would you fare on a site where just about everybody else was conservative? Wouldn't you sometimes feel you were shouting down a well? And wouldn't you be glad to hear somebody shout back up?

Seeker

November 22, 2008
8:31 am
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seekr, I would describe myself as a consevative and as such I made the decision NOT to vote for Obama, but now that he is elected I refuse to take the whiny low road and trash him for the next 4 years like the "other side" did George Bush for the last 8. I once said the man could have walked on water and someone would have found fault with it.

To be fair there were many things that I didn't agree with Bush on and there will probably be things I won't agree with Obama on. Even IF the birth certificat is proven to be a fake and he is snatched from office it will do more harm than good.

Bitsy

November 22, 2008
9:40 am
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"bevdee, how would you fare on a site where just about everybody else was conservative? "

Actually, I do feel as if I am one of the few (three?) atheists at this site - but I have learned from that. When the "opposition" got too vociferous, I just watched. Mostly, I watched the conversations die without the differing opinions, but that's another essay. When I need discussion, I benefit more when I take it somewhere other than here, a predominantly theistic minded forum.

If you are firm in your convictions, why do you want to shout down wells? Or hear shouts back? "Wouldn't you sometimes feel you were shouting down a well? And wouldn't you be glad to hear somebody shout back up?"

Are you feeling isolated, excluded now that a non-Republican is in office? Or that those here don't hate and fear him? You could respond to the blogs about it - there are tons of them on the www.

November 22, 2008
4:41 pm
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Bitsy, I agree with you about JFK.
I did not vote for Obama but I will defend his right to be president. I too hope that he serves his four years safely and does his best.

November 23, 2008
2:16 pm
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bevdee,

<>

I had come to the same conclusion myself a few days ago -- to take my political discussions elsewhere. I "grew up" on this site and for some dogged reason have felt a loyalty to it that prevents me from going elsewhere. Not logical, but this sort of thing had always been one of my weaknesses.

I myself was an atheist for a time. I can see how you'd feel out of place here with those beliefs.

Everybody,

I hope and pray that Obama is all you say he is. I'm through passionately debating politics on this site, though that doesn't include friendly bantering. I've learned something from this experience.

Seeker

November 24, 2008
7:57 am
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You arent a real athiest if you dont simply "care" about religion. To be one, you have to believe and know that all religions are man made, you have to believe in evolution as well and you have to believe that creationism is something propagated by religious people. If you didnt do any of those things, you werent an athiest.

November 24, 2008
7:59 pm
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"No, he's not Bush - he's potentially far more dangerous; and what is the use of a spirit of 'hope' if it's based on a lie? In fact, what use is 'hope' at all?
"

Hope.explore that.....

"That's the way 'hope' is employed by the dastardly and devious - take the crap we are giving you now in the 'hope' that things will get better (but we know they won't). Barack Obama is a purveyor of 'hope' because his masters want the people to accept what they are given now in the hope that good times will come.

Just do what we demand, oops, sorry, Barack demands, and in return he'll inspire you to hope that it is all leading to the Promised Land. It isn't, but, by the time you realise that, it's too late.

What terrifies the manipulators is that people will abandon hope, as a future, sometime-never projection, and start to demand fairness, justice and freedom now. To avoid this nightmare they need to keep those desires as something to aspire to, not to actually have. Thus, their man, Obama, sells 'hope' as a diversion technique, a holding position, to keep the masses from truly rebelling.

We have no job, no food on the table and our home has been foreclosed, but at least we have 'hope'. Phew, thank goodness for that.

'I'm hungry, mum, can I have some hope, please?'

'I'm so sorry, darling, you can't have hope today, only tomorrow - hope is always tomorrow.'

'So will I eat tomorrow, mum?'

'We can hope so now, dear, but when we get to tomorrow, we can only hope it's the next day.'

On and on it goes. That's how 'hope' works. Or rather doesn't.

Obama's predominant mantra is 'change'. Indeed, his massively-funded, record-breaking campaign has been based on that one word - change. This is a technique used by Bill Clinton and many others and it is highly effective because, at any point, the system ensures that most people are not happy with the way life is. So, when you don't like the status quo, 'change' can be a potent message, even if, like Obama, you don't say what it means.

It has been vital to his success, and that of his controllers, that he has never specified what his 'hope', 'change', and that other mind-control trigger-word, 'believe', were referring to in terms of policy and the way society in general will be affected. Hope for what? Change what? Believe in what?

To answer those questions with specifics would have been fatal to Obama's appeal."

Read the full article at:

http://www.rense.com/icke1.htm

It will really make you think!

I often wondered why people aren't more irritated and willing to protest NOW! Really. Now is the only time! And why are those who are blue collar, barely able to afford the finer things, or a yearly holiday, accepting this new mantra of "tightening our belts, hold onto your money"...why is everyone just accepting the bailouts, and lost investments. A lifetime of saving, and listening to the Government. A government that's supposed to protect us?.
They aren't protecting us. They are selling us out, and feeding us totalitarian lies.

He (Obama) was elected out of fear, hope and an agenda that serves a part of the population that feels it deserves more respect and has a right to more wealth and power ( they want respect and payback NOW).

( I don't think Obama is the answer. Not anymore. Well I actually liked Ralph Nader or Ron Paul...but knew there's no chance for them.)

Obama functions within a realm that feeds the present economic, cultural and spiritual beliefs of a nation.

Obama appealed to the more intellectual, marginal, peace oriented aspects of American society, and McCain the less educated, fundamentalist angry side of America, however both of them are ruled by the same system and support it.The people who voted for them are ignorant to the thruths that really threaten them.

Opposite sides of the same coin. One less blatant to observe and easier to look at.

I've been reading a lot lately, have been for years, about world banks, illuminati, who and what controls us, various methods of mind control, the use of our food and drug sources to alter, change natural laws, and weaken our minds and bodies etc,

I was almost fooled by the Obama factor, but his acceptance into the political arena, by his opponents especially, how convivial it all is, just didn't seem right. That really tipped me off....then i found this article on "hope" which hit home.

November 27, 2008
2:46 am
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Right on MsGuided! The masses have been MsLed.

Hope-Shmope!

What we really need is for people to wake up, yard their heads out of their own bottoms & have a look around at what is REALLY happening.

November 27, 2008
10:31 am
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Well, I think they've been "MrLed" ;0)

November 28, 2008
7:00 pm
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so what. it isn't like anyonne can change tings.

Bitsy

November 28, 2008
11:57 pm
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I voted for Nader. I knew I was throwing my vote away but hey, I like what he said about the economy. I like to think that Obama will help but he's going to have break a lot of promises to do that.

April 28, 2009
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The Obama Deception.

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