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Regarding the election of President-Elect Barack Obama.......
November 6, 2008
12:19 am
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truthBtold
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Alright folks.

First off - I have to thank the anonymity of this site and the always stauch stance towards the protection of this anonymity, in this regard.

That being said, I must admit that at first I was leaning towards Dennis Kuchinich - then John Edwards - then towards Ralph Nader, and alas, my vote yesterday (because I live in a 'red' state) - my vote eventually went to Obama.

For many reasons now, as I have come to realize.

To tell you the truth, it has been quite the personal, surprising journey.

This is very hard to admit to not only myself - but also publicly.

(Again - Thanks to the anonymity of this wonderful site.....)

You see, I have alsways considered myself a 'liberal'

Someone whom always stood for the 'underdog', as it were.

This was my stance.

However, I must finally admit - that at one point - in seriously considering the very possible reality of an actual black family moving into the white house - on a very deep level - at first - I was taken aback by all of that.

This kind of suprised me - even given my own subscribed 'liberal views.'

(I should tell you that I am a white female.)

I found myself a little disturbed by that fact.

Like - kind of like trying to fit a square peg into a circle - in a sense.

It kind of surprised me - to tell you the truth......that deep down - I felt that way......

I always considered myself quite the liberal....progressive - in this regard.

It was then and ONLY then that I came into real contact about my own sense of deep-down seeded 'white-priviledge.'

Please folks - try not judge me.

I am only being COMPLETELY HONEST here.....

I found out something about myself.

That I had this ingrained sense of priviledge - simply by the color of my skin and for my 'good hair.'

It is embarrasing to admit.

But I feel that - in really getting low-down and nitty-gritty with myself - that I revealed a sense about myself that was previously brewing and living on an unconsious level.....finally made itself known to me - much to my own chagrin.

As liberal and progressive as I had previously THOUGHT myself to be.....I had this underlying ASSUMPTION about myself that I was still a member of some 'priviledged class' simnply because I am white.

Bitter pill.

But - no more.

I look at black folks now in a different light.

A TRULY EQUAL light.

This whole ordeal has given me one helluva wake-up call as to my own assumptions about myself.

Perhaps, in the past, I might have related to the black struggle etc.....and felt self-rightous enough to think that the present in indeed unequal and that all that has to be changed yada, yada, yada......

(But of course - not ever to challenge my own peronal assumptions about myself and 'my place' within the world....)

Of course not.

But until this most poignant, personal, PRIVATE moment I have recently expereinced within myself....I NOW SEE how this very silent and underlying sense of 'natuaal priviledge' I had thought of myself as....has finally come to light.

And now I see black folks in a different light.

An equal light.

A truly equal light.

Not from a self-rightous white liberal any longer (with the unconcious, NATURAL assumption of surpremecy, priviledge that we all ought to join hands and give 'these folks' as well needed break.........)

But TRULY as equals.

I write here humbly - in quite surprise with my now - conscious - but now owned ignorance!

My sense is that those that have anomosity (sp?) as to the results of this election - have only themselves to examine deep within themselves as to just WHERE exacly this ignorance TRULY resides - for without doubt - it is within our OWN selves - the ignorance - the bare naked ignorance - IF we DARE dig deep enough inside...........

Perhaps it might me then - ....THEN.....that true equality - indeed - the real and actual content of our own deep character lies not so much in what we would like to project upon others and for what we would like to see happen - kind of seperate from our own selves.....but on the true content of our OWN character.......all things seriously and honestly considered about our own selves and secret assumptions.

Surely......food for thought in these changing (and perhaps deep-down personally challenging) times.........

In the end - I think that we will ALL be much better for it......if we are weilling to do what I did - had no choice in doing.....in just really getting down to the really nitty-gritty doen stuff about our own selves!!!!!!!!!!

Peace!

tBt

November 6, 2008
12:26 am
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ps - I guess that I forgot to add the most important, bottom-line thing about all of this.....and that is - that where arrogance seperates......humility does indeed and in deed connect......(and you can well take THAT to the bank my friends!!!!!!)

🙂

tBt

November 6, 2008
12:37 am
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Good honesty, truthB. Here is an article that I think speaks to this very well. Some may not have seen it as it is nearly 20 years old -- but still true.

I found it at http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.ed.....cking.html

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group"

by Peggy McIntosh

Through work to bring materials from women's studies into the rest of the curriculum, I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are overprivileged, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. They may say they will work to women's statues, in the society, the university, or the curriculum, but they can't or won't support the idea of lessening men's. Denials that amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages that men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully acknowledged, lessened, or ended.

Thinking through unacknowledged male privilege as a phenomenon, I realized that, since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there are most likely a phenomenon, I realized that, since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there was most likely a phenomenon of while privilege that was similarly denied and protected. As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage.

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was "meant" to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.

Describing white privilege makes one newly accountable. As we in women's studies work to reveal male privilege and ask men to give up some of their power, so one who writes about having white privilege must ask, "having described it, what will I do to lessen or end it?"

After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious. Then I remembered the frequent charges from women of color that white women whom they encounter are oppressive. I began to understand why we are just seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence.

My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work that will allow "them" to be more like "us."

Daily effects of white privilege

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Elusive and fugitive

I repeatedly forgot each of the realizations on this list until I wrote it down. For me white privilege has turned out to be an elusive and fugitive subject. The pressure to avoid it is great, for in facing it I must give up the myth of meritocracy. If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own.

In unpacking this invisible knapsack of white privilege, I have listed conditions of daily experience that I once took for granted. Nor did I think of any of these perquisites as bad for the holder. I now think that we need a more finely differentiated taxonomy of privilege, for some of these varieties are only what one would want for everyone in a just society, and others give license to be ignorant, oblivious, arrogant, and destructive.

I see a pattern running through the matrix of white privilege, a patter of assumptions that were passed on to me as a white person. There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turn, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways and of making social systems work for me. I could freely disparage, fear, neglect, or be oblivious to anything outside of the dominant cultural forms. Being of the main culture, I could also criticize it fairly freely.

In proportion as my racial group was being made confident, comfortable, and oblivious, other groups were likely being made unconfident, uncomfortable, and alienated. Whiteness protected me from many kinds of hostility, distress, and violence, which I was being subtly trained to visit, in turn, upon people of color.

For this reason, the word "privilege" now seems to me misleading. We usually think of privilege as being a favored state, whether earned or conferred by birth or luck. Yet some of the conditions I have described here work systematically to over empower certain groups. Such privilege simply confers dominance because of one's race or sex.

Earned strength, unearned power

I want, then, to distinguish between earned strength and unearned power conferred privilege can look like strength when it is in fact permission to escape or to dominate. But not all of the privileges on my list are inevitably damaging. Some, like the expectation that neighbors will be decent to you, or that your race will not count against you in court, should be the norm in a just society. Others, like the privilege to ignore less powerful people, distort the humanity of the holders as well as the ignored groups.

We might at least start by distinguishing between positive advantages, which we can work to spread, and negative types of advantage, which unless rejected will always reinforce our present hierarchies. For example, the feeling that one belongs within the human circle, as Native Americans say, should not be seen as privilege for a few. Ideally it is an unearned entitlement. At present, since only a few have it, it is an unearned advantage for them. This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power that I originally say as attendant on being a human being in the United States consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

I have met very few men who truly distressed about systemic, unearned male advantage and conferred dominance. And so one question for me and others like me is whether we will be like them, or whether we will get truly distressed, even outraged, about unearned race advantage and conferred dominance, and, if so, what we will do to lessen them. In any case, we need to do more work in identifying how they actually affect our daily lives. Many, perhaps most, of our white students in the United States think that racism doesn't affect them because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity. In addition, since race and sex are not the only advantaging systems at work, we need similarly to examine the daily experience of having age advantage, or ethnic advantage, or physical ability, or advantage related to nationality, religion, or sexual orientation.

Difficulties and angers surrounding the task of finding parallels are many. Since racism, sexism, and heterosexism are not the same, the advantages associated with them should not be seen as the same. In addition, it is hard to disentangle aspects of unearned advantage that rest more on social class, economic class, race, religion, sex, and ethnic identity that on other factors. Still, all of the oppressions are interlocking, as the members of the Combahee River Collective pointed out in their "Black Feminist Statement" of 1977.

One factor seems clear about all of the interlocking oppressions. They take both active forms, which we can see, and embedded forms, which as a member of the dominant groups one is taught not to see. In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

Disapproving of the system won't be enough to change them. I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us. Individual acts can palliate but cannot end, these problems.

To redesign social systems we need first to acknowledge their colossal unseen dimensions. The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.

It seems to me that obliviousness about white advantage, like obliviousness about male advantage, is kept strongly inculturated in the United States so as to maintain the myth of meritocracy, the myth that democratic choice is equally available to all. Keeping most people unaware that freedom of confident action is there for just a small number of people props up those in power and serves to keep power in the hands of the same groups that have most of it already.

Although systemic change takes many decades, there are pressing questions for me and, I imagine, for some others like me if we raise our daily consciousness on the perquisites of being light-skinned. What will we do with such knowledge? As we know from watching men, it is an open question whether we will choose to use unearned advantage, and whether we will use any of our arbitrarily awarded power to try to reconstruct power systems on a broader base.

Peggy McIntosh is associate director of the Wellesley Collage Center for Research on Women. This essay is excerpted from Working Paper 189. "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming To See Correspondences through Work in Women's Studies" (1988), by Peggy McIntosh; available for $4.00 from the Wellesley College Center for Research on Women, Wellesley MA 02181 The working paper contains a longer list of privileges.

This excerpted essay is reprinted from the Winter 1990 issue of Independent School.

November 6, 2008
12:44 am
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oops.... that bold! sorry :-0

November 6, 2008
8:23 am
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See, its human nature to want to see something in the other person and want to feel that we're better than them. It makes us feel better ourselves. There was an article about this before: we get happiness hormones if we see we're doing better than our neighbour.

I dont know if its possible to live a life without needing some kind of measure to compare with the other person so we can feel better about ourselves. If its not skin solor, it could be education, money, our significant other, country, religion, area of town where we live in, kids, car, house, etc.

November 6, 2008
10:47 am
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Back in September, the New York Times Sunday Magazine ran an article about Barack Obama as seen by the students he taught. An overall theme in the students' comments was that Obama taught them to examine their own biases first when trying to come to a decision or evaluation. He acknowledged that ALL of us have biases, himself included. Find the article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09.....ama-t.html

truthBtold, I think your post took a lot of guts. (and as an Obama supporter, I am so glad you thought long and hard about this topic. It is so important in today's world.)

katz

November 6, 2008
10:48 am
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Guest,

Your correct about one thing, our bodies do produce edorphines when we are happy, and with many positive happenings in our life. However, if you are comparing yourself to another human and that's what makes you happy by doing better in your eyes because of all of the above you mentioned that simply isn't true happiness. Looking at the outside and at other people and what they have or don't have to feed your own happiness is simply a fasle sence of happiness, and comparing, and that is simply sad to feel that is going to help your happiness in anyway what so ever. I feel sorry for people that do such, because that isn't true happiness.

You questioning wheather it is "possible to live a life without needing some kind of measure to compare with the other person so we can feel better about ourselves" is your right, but I will tell you that is not what makes me feel better what so ever, to stop measuring is when you will feel better about yourself, and you will find happiness. To look at what you have or don't have isn't what life is about. Maybe to some it is, but true happiness, peacefulness, and contentment comes from within and with that you will not have any desire to compare yourself to others in order to measure your own happiness or achieve a temporary happiness.

True happiness is not measuring or comparing for the sake of filling some tank that makes you feel better knowing you have more then another. Hope I didnt' offend you, because I certainly don't mean to, but you kind of questioned wheather it is possible to live a life without needing some kind of measure to compare with, and that I don't agree with at all.

Peace

November 6, 2008
7:13 pm
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I admire your honesty. You're not supposed to be perfect.

ya know?

free

November 7, 2008
10:04 pm
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Hm.. strange that right after Obama becomes president, he's making gaffs left and right.

- refers to himself as mutt as a joke (fine, not really that bad, but still, its unlikely he'd have said this during the campaign)

- bigger mistake: Nancy Reagan/seance thing. He would DEFINITELY not do this during the campaign.

But to that I say: he still was better at not looking or doing something stupid (like McCain did by choosing Palin e.g.) during the campaign. That itself requires intelligence.

So, anyway, I hope he doesnt disappoint us. Did you guys see the gulp in his throat today in his newsconference? A bunch of them. he was nervous. Thats fine too, maybe thats natural and he'll be fine as he becomes used to the whole of America depending on him for answers.

November 7, 2008
10:09 pm
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Healing, thanks, I couldnt find that study about comparison.

November 7, 2008
11:12 pm
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He literally has the weight of the world on his shoulders, and NO one has ever had to step up to the plate at a more difficult time.

I thought he was trying to be relaxed, I think he presented himself well, I think he's showing he's human.

He showed a light hearted side when talking about the puppy situation, and referring to himself as a mutt- well, he is sort of, so no big deal imo.

Why he said that about Nancy Reagan though is beyond me. What an odd thing. But maybe he was nervous (good grief, who wouldn't be?). If thats the biggest mistake he can make, I'll give it to him, he's got bigger things to worry about.

sd

November 8, 2008
8:21 am
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He was nervous yea, I guess he'll become used to it and then be ok. Also, at the end, the "bonjour" to the reporter who asked the question after time was over, was kinda awkward I thought. But I'm reallyy being critical, like you said it doesnt matter. But we were watching that first conference very carefully.

People are taking that "mutt" comment positively: link

Lets see what happens in the next conference! Everyone's watching! Hm... I'm still agnostic about it. Oh well. We'll see.

November 8, 2008
10:41 am
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guest_guest: I went to that link and ...the comment:

"Ironically, Obama's remarks came just a day after Italy's Premier Silvio Berlusconi, in an apparent joke, described Obama as "young, handsome and even tanned."

I think maybe folks want to get past the race isssue and get down to more serious business. So describing his race w/ some humor (as above) may help people acknowledge it, not ignore it or tap dance around it, and move on.

sd

November 8, 2008
1:01 pm
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I agree with sd, if he can take speak of his racial background lightly maybe it will ease some of feelings some people my have.

and you are right we have much more serious business than gafs about mutts and Nancy Reagan.

November 8, 2008
2:14 pm
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Obama called himself a "mutt" in his speach the other day.

He obviously has expereinced some racially motivated discrimination personally, has said so, but he has moved passed it and has become a productive, well rounded human being who can laugh at himself.

He never plays the race card, blames, or uses his personal experiences of discrimination to get ahead.(however he did have a wealthy family who lived in one of the best parts of the united states,and could afford giving him a good education.He had an excellent support system) He let's his actions express who he is, worked hard and applied himself in his studies.

Something all of us could follow and learn from.

November 10, 2008
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We are ALL "mutts".

I have to say that this is one of the most honest and open post I've ever seen here.... well done truth, kroika, and others.

Cary

November 10, 2008
2:19 pm
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My word!

Thank you everyone for appreciating and honoring my stark honesty.

I just couldn't keep it a secret any longer.

Felt like I was going to absolutely BURST at the seams if I didin't share with someone....somehow...

(...And you know what they say about secrets - right?.....that we are only as sick as our secrets......)

I feel safe and quietly validated here thanks to you kind folks.

Weird how it all shakes out in a way.

For deep down, I have secretly judged myself for being white and living in a trailer-park....hence - 'trailer-park trash' - but now, since I have decided to come clean about the issues I addressed here - funny how I am finding myself less judgemental about myself.

Funny how that shakes out - isn't it?

Hmmmmm~!

Peace to all!!!!!

tBt

November 10, 2008
3:40 pm
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I think it is great that a black man has been elected President, but Obama is scary. I beleive he is socialism is the making. He wants to form a Citizens's Advisory organization where neighbor's are watching other neighbors and repsorting whatever they want to to the authorites. "Papers Please!!!"

November 10, 2008
3:40 pm
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not 'repsorting' but 'REPORTING' was what I meant ot write.

November 10, 2008
3:51 pm
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OMW....I don't mean to make light of your concerns but you're last post reminded me of the actor Martin Short who talking about Obama being a "socialist", wondered aloud.....I don't get why some Americans find so threatening? I have been a Canadian my whole life and don't get what is so evil about socialism!

I don't get it either. Canada seems to do alright?

Anyway....of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. The only thing I would caution is to take care where you are getting your information from. Like for instance.....if it reads...www.rushlimbaugh.com.... It might be a bit biased.

That being obvious of course....but there are many more that are not quite so obvious. So be choosy about where the facts come from.

November 11, 2008
10:31 am
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I have to say that I am a southern white woman that did not vote for Obama BUT The mutt comment sounded to me like humor...I wasn't offended. The comment about Nancy Reagan as much as I adored Ronald Reagan and regret I was never old enough to vote for him didn't offend me either. As a child I remember the seance articles being all over the front of the National Inquirer. Once again, I think he was going for humor and we all need to get off the "being offended over every little thing" bus. All of us black/white/red/yellow/purple/ and green...If I have inadvertantly omitted anyone feel free to mix the colors as you choose.

Bitsy

November 12, 2008
1:55 pm
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If I might make a comment about the socialism issue. I read an article in the a local paper about comments from the Socialist Party here in the States. Members stated that Obama is not what they would consider to be a socialist. They described why. It was an education.
Of course, the right wing talk show hosts want to peg him a Marxist...and so it goes
The pig comment though (actually, among other things those I used to listen to did.) and the overblown reaction about that (a comment that I had heard in context, so I knew the truth) made me decide that I could no longer even consider the opinions of these disingenuous (my opinion of course) self-aggrandizing, money fixated "neo-cons" any longer (okay, so I needed a description there. Its what I went through, and is not to offend or promote anything. )
I am not a liberal or conservative in the terms that they are used today-- as political labels. I am independent:-- not a right or left -- or in the middle either. and I believe that most of us should be. That way we could considider each situation for what it is worth and not in the confines of labels imposed by self-serving groups or individuals.
I wanted to vote for Obama, except for the Marxist fears-- and the NWO plans for our future on either side of the coin, as I understand it to be, at least.
I chose to vote for a third party candidate.
However, during the election night coverage, when I saw that McCain was picking up more states I found myself panicking. I had learned much during the last 2 years about what is really happening
This started with someone's post ,at this site, recommending that we watch films like "Why We Fight" and "Money as Debt.", etc. That was the red pill. The trip down the rabbit whole that followed was both shocking and enlightening -- and also freeing.
At any rate, I was relieved, and cheering out loud, when ABC said that they were ready to call the election for Obama. I am glad he didn't need my vote.
I had listened to all of the debates and watched all the interviews and other things I could find, I thought I would let those into the "two party dictatorship" decide. I wanted no part of it, except for my right to vote and also do work to helping to restore the Republic, if I was able.
But I realized who I did NOT want I to be President, or VP, female or not, by my reactions.
I know this man of color cares about me as much as any other of us.
"I am middle class"..lol.
(God willing.). I hope that my gut is right that the people made the right choice for today--of the available choices.

That is how I see it.

Thanks for the thread. I was very interested in the opinions here.

November 15, 2008
10:18 pm
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I've visited AAC from time to time for the last number of months, but haven't felt impressed to post anything. On this subject, however, I cannot remain silent.

Lolly, first I want to say, "Hi!" We've had some good exchanges in the past. I didn't know you are Canadian.

You say what's the big deal about Obama being a socialist and cite Canada as being an example of socialism working there.

I would be the last to disparage your home country. However, I respectfully ask if any inventions have come from Canada, such as electric lights, TV, radio, airplanes, computers, CD players, etc.? If any have, please educate me. Canada, like much of the world, has been the beneficiary of American innovation, which has occurred under a capitalistic, NOT a socialist, government.

That's because socialism kills innovation by taking from the productive and giving it to the non-productive. Why work so hard when you can't enjoy the fruits of your own labors? And that's what socialism would do to America. Here's the "beauty" of socialism: everybody is equal, which means that the standard of living drops for everybody equally and nobody fully realizes the potential for societal greatness.

Seeker

November 15, 2008
10:27 pm
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(Seeker, is that you??)

sd

November 15, 2008
11:09 pm
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Here are some things that I have against Obama's election to the presidency:

He spent hundreds of millions of dollars on his campaign, much more than any other presidential candidate in American history. Where did all that money come from? He refuses to disclose many of his sources, yet he is required to do so by law.

The birth certificate he produced is not an original copy. It was computer generated. How many computer generated birth certificates existed in the early 1960s, when he was born? Why did it take him months to produce it? Why didn't he procure an original copy from the hospital from where he was allegedly born? If his certificate is genuine, why does it not show all, or even close to all, of the information that a genuine Hawaiian birth certificate from that era shows?

Why did his own grandmother say that she was present at his birth -- in Kenya?

Why did Hillary Clinton complain that he used illegal tactics in caucus elections when they were vying for the nomination? For example, she said that Obama bussed voters in from across county lines.

Why did ACORN, which is supposed to be apolitical, blatantly support Obama? ACORN is known for dishonesty -- registering dead goldfish, for example, as voters. Why were they allowed to campaign for Obama?

He spent 20 years in the congregation of a reverend who spouts off hatred toward America. I heard one of his sermons myself in which this reverand pointedly asked God to d**m America. Yet we're supposed to believe that Obama was not affected by such rhetoric. Why should we?

Why is it considered politically incorrect to refer to Obama's legal middle name, which is Hussein?

I got plenty of emails from the Obama campaign over the months. Why did I not see any mechanism for removing my name from the list? I emailed them to remove my name. They didn't; I kept receiving the emails against my expressed wishes. Private companies would get in trouble for doing this.

Incidentally, if you question some of my statements because I learned some of it from conservative talk shows, why didn't the mainstream media report these things and thus leave me no choice but to learn it from these other sources? And why can't conservative sources be as valid as mainstream media sources? If the former can be shown to be in error, the radio programs can be sued. This gives them incentive to report honestly.

For the above reasons, I question the legitimacy of Obama's election and fear what he will do as president.

Seeker

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