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Recovering From Religions
July 4, 2007
1:46 am
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red blonde
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I am glad that you love old books...I just love books and when you are lonely...or alone, sometimes a book is really good company. You can get lost in some of them.

July 4, 2007
1:57 am
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red blonde
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When I went on a word search because of my nick-name 'Paradox', it became very interesting....Para - meaning 'beyond' and DOX - meaning 'dogma' as some of there descriptions. And I had said that I do not believe in religious dogma.

I have alot of strange beliefs, though. Perhaps it is because my Mother called me a witch from childhood upto a week before her death.

July 9, 2007
6:20 pm
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ok, most know me well enough on these threads in regard to my beliefs...they are pretty solid, but I had a rough beginning.

I have a problem...I am in Theological Seminary, and for some reason it reminds me of the Baptist church I grew up in. As a result, I am having a very difficult time with my will. I can't seem to bridge the gap very well from before and this school. Maybe I need to change schools, but this is a very reputable and good school. I have a major BLOCK, huge block, and I have no negative reference except my church as a child.

Any helpful thoughts anyone?

July 13, 2007
2:40 am
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Darth Seder
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The love story of Ralph and Edna.

Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to,
doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.

Ralph and Edna were both patients in a mental hospital. One day while
they were walking past the hospital swimming pool, Ralph suddenly
jumped into the deep end. He sank to the bottom of the pool and stayed
there.

Edna promptly jumped in to save him. She swam to the bottom and pulled him out. When the Head Nurse Director became aware of Edna's
heroic act she immediately ordered her to be discharged from the hospital, as she now considered her to be mentally stable.

When she went to tell Edna the news she said, "Edna, I have good news
and bad news. *The good news is you're being discharged, since you were able to rationally respond to a crisis by jumping in and saving the life of the person you love. I have concluded that your act displays sound mindedness. The bad news is, Ralph, hung himself in the

bathroom with his bathrobe belt right after you saved him. I am so
sorry, but he's dead."

Edna replied, "He didn't hang himself, I put him there to dry. How
soon can I go home?"

July 13, 2007
2:23 pm
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Darth,

Well this at least puts a funny slant on things, made me smile!! 🙂

July 14, 2007
3:13 am
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Hi OMW

I would suspect that a theological seminary would be somewhat rigid and this may be why it reminds you of the Baptist Church you grew up with. The Baptist church I went to and was baptized in during high school was the warmest, most welcoming, non-judgemental group of people I've ever known. But the Baptist church I became involved with years later- jeepers, everybody was concerned with everybody else's salvation instead of their own. I got to the point where one time a woman approached me and started in this snide tone "I need to tell you that God spoke to me and -" I cut her off and said " stop right there, kuz God speaks to me too and when he spoke to YOU He was probably talking ABOUT you." and I walked away.

I kept going for some time, but with a different attitude. A changed outlook. I started going to learn, and learn I did, keenly observing people, their reactions, their interpretations, poking here and there- starting little fires just to see what would happen, sharing very little of my personal life and thoughts. I know that doesn't sound very nice, but people's reactions to stimuli can be fascinating. There is much to be learned from ALL people.

This is a good school, I say stick with it. Education is power. Power to choose, power to believe. You can always go for a higher degree at another school, but stick this out.

ALL educational paths have rough spots. You're learning something. Don't turn away from that- embrace it. In time, what you are learning will become clear.

Just my thoughts.

free

July 14, 2007
7:57 pm
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free,

Thanks, this is good advice, there is much to be learned from all people, very true.

July 15, 2007
11:50 am
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lafsmuch
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I always wondered why people chose "Liberal Arts" for their degree of choice, but there is a lot of merit in that thought process. I would say once you have your Theological degree, it would be respected by most denominations. Maybe you can look at it that way? You may not end up in the denomination that sponsors your Seminary, but that's OK.

It's a foundation.

lafsmuch

July 16, 2007
2:20 am
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bevdee
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I wonder how those poor catholics are going to recover from their religion?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....arch_story

"LA Church To Pay $660M Over Clergy Abuse

Los Angeles Archdiocese To Pay $660M To Settle Clergy Abuse Claims, Dwarfing Other Deals"

July 19, 2007
2:42 pm
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truthBtold
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bevdee,

yeah - I heard about that! What's strange is that evidently there is some type of "sexual molestation insurance" that is available - which is what I understand the catholic church used for the settlement, in part. Incredible!!!!!!!!

(I got that little bit of info from where I get most of my news for the day - from the Comedy channel & John Stewart's "The Daily Show.)

July 19, 2007
6:03 pm
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bevdee
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tBt

"What's strange is that evidently there is some type of "sexual molestation insurance""

Get the f**k out! You know, I didn't believe this, but I googled and it seems that they have been carrying this type of insurance for about 10 years.

July 19, 2007
6:22 pm
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sexual molestation insurance. I'm gonna throw up.

How about criminally prosecuting these people?

free

July 19, 2007
10:51 pm
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on my way
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sick.

July 23, 2007
9:13 pm
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fantas
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I don't know if it's a requirement but I know that almost all churches now carry a sexual molestation insuarance. People who work with children have to see a video of dos and don'ts and must sign that they have seen it. All people working with children at church are legally required to be fingerprinted and checked out by the FBI. There have been too many lawsuits against ministers, workers at churches that there was too much money being paid out by individual churches. Sickening but true and very real.

July 24, 2007
1:10 am
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This might be a stupid question, but here goes.

Are any of these priests being criminally prosecuted?

If not, WHY NOT?

Down the google brick road I go.

Will report back.

free

July 24, 2007
2:36 am
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Yep, they have. Problem is the statute of limitations- six years in California. Other problem is the church knowing about it and not reporting it to law enforcement to prosecute. They would, instead, move the priest.

wow.

free

July 24, 2007
3:07 am
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red blonde
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Just another reason why I am an ex-Catholic.

July 24, 2007
9:40 am
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red blonde
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Actually - ex any churches and denominations...except maybe gnostism.

July 24, 2007
3:07 pm
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The Unitarian Church seems pretty open to everybody and everything- no rigidity or so it seems. Been reading about it. Gnostics, mystics, christians, agnostics, - people from all walks join together- like a herd of cats.

I might check one of these churches out myself.

free

July 24, 2007
8:15 pm
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lafsmuch,
Thanks...good thoughts un what you say..and I agree.

July 24, 2007
8:19 pm
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Y'all,
I have been doing a lot of thinking. I am seeing that there is some oppression to what we have been taught about Christianity....only not certain as of yet, and need to gather more information and study it more...but it seems to go against God's nature, which is why we hear so much from the world...how could God, how could God? He loves everyone...so how do all of the different religions "FIT IN" to the 'sin' factor, being separated from God, and the atonement process? Care to kick this around?....I mean I am even beginning to see some similarities between Christianity and Buddhism...I am particualraly interested in HOW all of this comes together, because somewhere...it must.....thinking, thinking, thinking, ...

July 24, 2007
8:32 pm
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I guess I've never really fully told my recovery from religion story.

It has parts that are horrifying, to me, at least.

It has a happy ending though, sort of.

Interesting thing is, it hasn't ended with me claiming to be an "atheist."

I am 60-70% sure that I am not an atheist.

July 25, 2007
2:33 am
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hi wd

You've told pieces of your story. Is the happy ending that you got away from these people alive? If I remember correctly, it was pretty bad. I was blown away. I think I'd heard a little of it, but never had contact with somebody who had actually experienced it. You're a survivor for sure wd.

OMW

I suspect all the religions tie together. It's so much work studying them, so I can't say that they do kuz I've only studied a select few. Oppression in Christianity-I think so. This is often viewed as bad ONLY -kuz it has bad attributes, but oppression had potential to be very, very good- uniting people under one religion would end much violence and war. Hence the Christian Crusades, and what Islamic extremists are trying to do today. If the world was all Roman Catholic, or Islamic, or athiest, or Jewish, or Buddhist or, or, or- would there be wars? I suspect not like we've seen. Problem is, people will always question- there's always cats in the herd.

Every tried to herd cats?

I haven't, but suspect it would be quite the challenge. I struggle just getting ONE in the house for the night sometimes. She just has her own agenda.

The sin factor- some believe it is not a moral thing like culture and man attributes, but an imbalance in the soul. Some imbalances are great, some small, but they all create discomfort.

Murder for example- thou shalt not kill- well sometimes we must to survive. If a person kills in an attempt to achieve a balance, there will be no or little remorse- there will be attempts to justify. But if a person kills because he/she had to in order to survive, there will be shock, bewilderment, anxiety, etc. at the realization of taking another life-kuz murder wasn't on the agenda in the search for balance.

I know- it's a totally different viewpoint on sin, but I think it's an interesting one.

free

July 25, 2007
11:29 am
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red blonde
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OMW -

I think even the OT of the Bible 'justifies' the killing of people...as in 'stoning' them for different reasons...The old 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' (is that the correct saying?) kind of justice. Is it to just keep the beliefs pure or the 'race' pure within the confines of the religion? And were not 'Safe' places created when some one was falsely accused of committing a crime..even murder?

I have not studied the Bible or other religions very much, so I may be way off base here.

July 25, 2007
12:42 pm
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hey red the old eye for an eye is not written to keep the race pure. It is the ancient talion law written in the earlier books of the old testament. In the bible there is a steady progresion away from this kind of thinking the Psalms of david written much later, state "do not pay your brother back deed for deed" and when we get to the new testament Jesus the new covenant teaches us to love one another and turn the other cheak. This i see as human kinds relationship growing with God. A kind of evolution of humanity if you will. I have met many a preacher both catholic and protestant wwho try to spin chapter and verse into their own thing. People have often said that about the old testament but look at exodus (THOU SHALT NOT KILL) It's one of the "big 10" so when people do that i like to tell them they r full of sh__. The jewish leaders of the old testament times used to stone people to death as a matter of public exacution. just like leathal injection is today. They may have used the bible to justify it but i don't see that they were right at all

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