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Question on self-love
April 20, 2006
9:44 pm
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Tez, our unresolved issues are most "exposed" when we're in a relationship.

If I'm not this girl, how will I get the exposing of my issues? I mean - In order to fix my issues, I have to be able to see them most clearly. In order to see them clearly, I must be a relationship.

But if I have issues, the relationship cant work out. Or, I should not enter a relationship until I resolve my issues.

Get my confusion? Whats the answer then.

Huge problem as usual going on with this girl. Today was a bummer day. Tomorrow might be better, depending on how well I sleep. I read a lot of Dr Nathan today. Will continue now.

April 20, 2006
10:12 pm
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I meant, if I'm not WITH this girl.

i read a little bit Dr. Nathan again now! On to chapter, which seems like the actual healing chapter. Ch 11 and I'll be ready to live life! yay... I wish!

In the end of Ch 9 he said very nice things about how sentence completion works very nicely.

I really wanna get counseling from this guy. To think I was living there at a time where he is. I'm away now, but I can do telephone sessions. I dont know how much it will cost.

April 21, 2006
10:46 am
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I have a new quotation : "When something seems the hardest to do, it is precisely the very thing that needs to be done"

April 21, 2006
11:22 am
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Money well spent, haaa ... !

I bought these 5 products from Dr. Nathan right now. Initially when I saw his website and saw him selling his stuff, I thought "Oh my gosh, not here too. Not ANOTHER money making thing". But then I listend to his samples and ofcourse I love his book. Every word this man has in his book has meaning, every WORD. Can you imagine so many few books can get that kind of praise? But then its a question of context and personal choice. Some would love their holy books in the same way (those who believe in one).

To me, for now, this book is my holy book "honouring the self".

$35 well spent.
Much better money than that spent on Beer and parking tickets, eh? lol

- The Art of Self-Acceptance (MP3)

- New Reflections on Self Esteem (MP3)
- Living Authentically (MP3)
- Coping With Anxiety and Depression (MP3)
- Basic Relaxation & Ego Strengthening (MP3)*

April 21, 2006
11:40 am
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Maybe I'm feeling good because ummm- I look nice and feel neat and clean and shaven, you know. I like this shirt. I dont know what it is. I just feel a little better today. But now I'm getting hungry and my tail is starting to twitch, no I meant my horns, they're starting to droop and my claws, you know, my claws feel strange. I need to put some lotion on them. Ok I need to stop. I just wanted to write something crazy. eeeeeeeee.

Hmmmmmmm.

April 21, 2006
1:37 pm
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eve
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You're not a minotaur, are you?

April 21, 2006
1:52 pm
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ah! I guess I was for a while.

I'm listening to Dr. Nathan "Living authentically".

A lot of uncertainty in the air. Uncertainty.

April 21, 2006
2:03 pm
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"But now I'm getting hungry........

For as long as i have known you you talk about food and food and hunger.

Here is something for you on this

“[Rappoport] said his own research with college students shows that people attach ‘symbolic meaning’ to different kinds of good. It’s why, for example, some students eat macaroni and cheese whenever they feel depressed. ‘It reminds them of childhood comforts,’ he said.

“In his book, Rappoport writes a lot about a different kind of association that can bring food products a cult following — the idea that eating a particular item says something flattering about the eater.

“‘Many foods are marketed as identity symbols,’ he said. ‘Think of all the sports heroes on boxes of Wheaties. Kids and teenagers will often go for foods that are associated with characters they admire.’”

“Do you mash your potatoes or roast them? Prefer a martini or a rum and Coke? The answers to these and other questions about what you eat can tell researchers a lot about who you are and to which social class you belong.

“This is just one of the findings by Leon Rappoport… [He] addresses the way cultures define things as edible, food habits and ideologies, the origin of eating disorders, the relationship of food to sex and aggression, the future of marketing and the psychological implications behind these issues.”
— Sun wire services, Sun, San Bernadino, CA, May 26, 2004

“In ‘How We Eat: Appetite, Culture, and the Psychology of Food,’ Leon Rappoport, a professor of psychology at Kansas State University states, ‘Clinical case histories frequently show that overeating is a common response to any form of social loss or rejection that can leave one feeling unloved or unworthy.’

“Rappoport goes on to note that food can often act as a substitute for love or comfort because, in early childhood, a mother’s love and nurture are associated with feeding.”

Tri-Valley Herald, Pleasanton, California, December 31, 2004,

“Rappaport addresses the way cultures define things as edible, food habits and ideologies, the origin of eating disorders, the relationship of food to sex and aggression, the future of food marketing and the psychological

“Although ‘we all have the genetic predisposition to enjoy fat and sugar,’ upper–crust peeps develop a preference for a dry martini over a rum and Coke… so, in order to like caviar and liver pate, for example, you need to have an interest in cultivating a taste for them. And as for that picky person who is completely closed off to trying new things: well, they might have been forced by their parents to eat food they didn’t want as children so...

Garfield

April 21, 2006
5:07 pm
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Garfield wrote: "For as long as i have known you you talk about food and food and hunger."

I've had some friends tell me that too. Its cause my mom ignored my hunger. She'd scold me for being impatient if I'd tell her I'm hungry.

Now I've become more sensitive to my hunger. I panic now if I'm hungry and I go "oh my gosh, I'm hungry". I express that openly now so I can get used to becoming concerned when I'm hungry.

Now I'm hungry again but I was sitting listening to Dr. Nathan. I just felt too lazy to get up, the cereal bar is right behind me in the box.

Anyway, didnt mean to complain.

“Rappoport goes on to note that food can often act as a substitute for love or comfort because, in early childhood, a mother’s love and nurture are associated with feeding.”

Hm! I would say, only for people with a hole in their soul, like me, i.e. people with low self-esteem. I've noticed at times feeling hungry just 30 minutes after eating. What I also noticed was a sense of emptiness, that felt like as if it couldnt be fulfilled. It was just anxiety, feeling empty inside, etc.

April 21, 2006
10:32 pm
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Guest_guest.

"I think you're saying "relax and slow down and feel yourself, give yourself time" - is that what you're saying?"

NO. I meant exactly what I said just as I said it.

You appear to me to be 'hyper'.

I requote what I posted for your convenience:

You said:

"What does one do in these times when everything seems to be falling apart."

I said:

"One feels the dirt beneath one's bare feet, tastes the coffee, smells the roses, listens to the birds sing and watches a glorious sunset. One gets into the moment in the 'here and now'.

Then there is no one to be found who is "falling apart"."

From your responses in subsequent multiple posts, I gain the impression that you are obsessing over your failure to perform as you would have liked to do in front of 'cutie pie'.

You are LIVING in the PAST and in the imagined FUTURE - all in your mind. That is why you are in mental turmoil. You are trying to control that over which you have no control.

I remember the serenity prayer and I'm not even a theist.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can and the WISDOM TO KNOW THE BLOODY DIFFERENCE!"

BE HERE NOW!!!!! That is what I said, meant to say and what I am now saying again to you.

Sure ... draw on past experiences, but leave the future to the gods, and LIVE IN THE PRESENT right NOW.

That means focusing your mind on what is PRESENTLY coming in through your sense organs and experiencing that to the fullest. Your mind will then slow down and the 'mad obsessing' over this woman will die down or cease altogether. You will then be living in the present moment in your head instead of the remembered past or the imagined future.

This isn't some high fallutin' theory - it is a very practical way of quietening the 'monkey mind' and getting some peace and serenity for your trouble. Of course if you don't want that then ... ... ...

April 22, 2006
7:47 am
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Tez gave you some excellent advice.

I think we have to work through the past to be able to live life in the present.

Guest - a question

Have you worked through your childhood trauma??

Have you acknowledged what happened to you and talked about it?

Now I understand your relationship with food. It comes from your mother.

Some people use food to 'fill' there emotional emptiness.

"Now I've become more sensitive to my hunger. I panic now if I'm hungry and I go "oh my gosh, I'm hungry". I express that openly now so I can get used to becoming concerned when I'm hungry. "

To become aware that you are hungry and act on it is good. That is showing that you are taking care of yourself.

BUT you also said you panic if you are hungry. This for me would mean that you are still triggered by past experiences.

(((Garfield)))

April 22, 2006
1:31 pm
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Tez

>> Then there is no one to be found who is "falling apart" << Then there's no one to be found who is Ok, or NOT falling apart. It goes both ways. "LIVE IN THE PRESENT right NOW." Not as easy to follow. By being in past or future, thats my distorted thinking coming into action. All that is because of a low self-image but OK, you gave advice for a calmer peaceful me: "That means focusing your mind on what is PRESENTLY coming in through your sense organs and experiencing that to the fullest. Your mind will then slow down and the 'mad obsessing' over this woman will die down or cease altogether. " Well! Like when I was feeling so hopeless in the morning lying in bed and feeling so so empty, what does one do in times like that? Feel my sadness and not fight it, right? Maybe thats it, maybe I was resisting my sadness. I wonder what I should do in times like those. I feel a tiny bit better. hi _____Garfield_____ >> Have you worked through your childhood trauma??
Have you acknowledged what happened to you and talked about it? << No. You mean talked to therapists and stuff? I've done that and am going yes, to a psych and a therapist. Its slow. I still feel crappy. Yup, I've talked about my evil mom many times to people, I acknoledge the hurt she did to me. I have to learn to take myself out of these moods and resolve the issues that bother me. Maybe going out, doing a car wash, having lunch and stuff and maybe cleaning the house a little will help. My life is good right now, is what I have to tell myself. But then what I ultimately want is a 9/10 to the question "I love myself". Ultimately I want to be a love relationship with myself. That is the source of all my problems. What do I do, how do I start loving myself a little bit and stuff, to the point where I'm a joy to myself.

April 22, 2006
3:59 pm
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"What do I do, how do I start loving myself a little bit and stuff, to the point where I'm a joy to myself."

The answer for me here would lie in the knowledge of knowing what is fantasy and what is reality.

Do you know the difference???

((((Garfield)))

April 22, 2006
4:53 pm
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i dont know garfield.

Tez said, live in the present.

I was reading to Dr. Nathan and he talked about a technique where he asks a question to the client. He knows the client knows the answer, but the client says he doesnt. Then Dr N says "If you knew the answer, what would it be?"

So I asked myself "How can I be happy?" and the answer was "By being happy now"

heh. easy huh. Temporary fix: be happy now.

April 22, 2006
5:55 pm
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Guest - long time no see.

It saddens me to see you still grappling with your relationship with this girl. But on some level, I understand your fear of losing her.

You said------------If I'm not this girl, how will I get the exposing of my issues? I mean - In order to fix my issues, I have to be able to see them most clearly. In order to see them clearly, I must be a relationship.---------------------

And I have to say that you sound like you stole my words from one of my old posts.

I, too, grappled with staying or leaving my relationship. And I felt that I NEEDED to be in a relationship with E because he "triggered" my issues, and then they would be out in the open for me to fix.

But I now realize that no matter how much growing I did, the pain of being with him was just NOT WORTH IT.

I believe I can recover in other ways, without him....and am well on my way.....I am changing my eating habits, keeping my home cleaner, socializing more, changed jobs, and many more things to make ME feel better about ME.

And for the FIRST TIME in my LIFE, I do NOT feel the pull to go out and replace him....I have NO desire to be in a relationship, nor do I feel the NEED to have someone.

This is a first for me....and I am DAMN proud of myself for making it this far.

I think the answer to your question lies in the "cost" you pay to be around her....and does the knowledge she brings you outweigh the pain she brings you.

April 22, 2006
6:08 pm
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hi alicat nice to see you back.

My failure to lose her is not about losing her. Its about me failing as a person. It will be proof that I wasnt mentally healthy enough. It will be the pain that I'll have "I lost her because I wasnt a strong and healthy person".

Thats the agony. I want this girl, any girl that I like and to have a good relationship with her so its proof that I'm OK.

>> I have NO desire to be in a relationship, nor do I feel the NEED to have someone. << That is good but what if later, you say "ok, I'm bored. I want a BF". Isnt that the normal thing that happens sometime after a breakup >>does the knowledge she brings you outweigh the pain she brings you. << I dont know. I just know that the same thing: if I lose her, it will show that I wasnt good enough, not for her, but for myself. If I'm good enough for her, I could be good enough for her. She approached me first, she has seen times in which I've been my true joyful or strong self, she has loved those times and I have too. You sound strong right now, very good..!

April 22, 2006
6:10 pm
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Oops typo in the 2nd last para: If I'm good enough for myself, I could be good enough for her.

And I add, my true self is there, I just dont let it out. Its there in everyone I guess, they just dont let it out, they're afraid of being themselves, but before that, they have to love themselves and have a good relationship with themselves first.

April 22, 2006
6:39 pm
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Sorry, I don't believe that you have a right to decide if you are good enough for her or not.

that's what my BF did to me...decided FOR ME that he wasn't good enough, and abandoned the relationship emotionally, long before I told him to go.

And no, if you lose her, it does NOT meant you aren't good enough....it just means it wasn't meant to be, and something you can't change....it's not a failure like you see it....cuz if that was the case, then I have had SEVERAL failures in my lifetime...and quite honestly, I don't count ANY lost relationships as failures, but rather learning experiences.

The question should be "is she good enough for you".....and quite honestly, from where I sit, she isn't good for anyone right now, cuz she is as screwed up as they come....anyone that can't be loyal to their partner while in a committed relationship isn't worth ANYONE'S time. My BF cheated on me, that makes him NOT worth my time....and that is something that nothing can change, no matter HOW stable and healthy I become.

lost relationships do NOT equal failure....

April 22, 2006
7:25 pm
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hi alicat, I think "being not strong enough for you" was his excuse. Sure he was not, but he cheated on you, thats the main thing.

But I do get your point, ofcourse you were with him because you thought he was good enough for you. Also important is for him to think that he was good enough for you - that comes only from a positive self-image. Seems to me he had a self-esteem problem? I dont know your story.

>> but rather learning experiences. << Thats true, I forget sometimes myself. There's a quote on this site comes on sometimes "The cure for sorrow is to learn something". Its true, but in my tough times, everything seems impossible etc. Right now, I'm feeling fairly ok - I worked out just now as I do every other day. That makes me feel good and reminds me that, my happiness is inside me. There's so much to learn. I wish I believed all the time that my happiness is in me and that, I should not depend on this girl or any other girl's approval of me. >>lost relationships do NOT equal failure.... << I wish I couild believe that completely :(. If I could just be a master at knowing that, my happiness lies inside me and not looking outside for happines. If I can get into the habit of checking if I'm depending on my happiness from outside or inside, it would be nice. But if I dont need any external approval, what is their purpose? Why would I care to be around someone whose approval I dont care for? I know the answer is gonna be something like "yes but also", or something like that. Why would they care to be around ME, if they didnt care for my approval? I dont get it, contradictory.

April 22, 2006
7:29 pm
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How can I stop caring what people think of me? How can I solve this social anxiety I have when I go outside, or when I'm around ANYONE.

This is part of the low self-image. If I believed in myself fully, I wouldnt care. sigh

April 22, 2006
7:57 pm
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I think that when you find valuable, healthy friends, you will understand that they won't always approve of you or you of them. BUT in the general scheme of things, you share a bond and overall, the friendship is a positive thing. I think that EVERYONE gets a twinge of pain if someone disapproves....but the healthy person doesn't let them change who them are or what they believe in, just cuz someone doesn't approve....staying true to what you believe in is key....

Friends won't always approve and they don't always approve.

so why have them? someone to confide in, someone to "play" with, someone to celebrate life with, someone to share with.....support, guidance, love, acceptance, fun....friends are valuable.

And if someone is CONSTANLY disapproving of you, or you of them - then they aren't a good "match" for you....because the overall tone of the relationship should be a positive one......but there will be times you don't see eye to eye, and that's ok.

as far as the social anxiety and worrying about what others think - that comes from therapy and working on your esteem issues....and yeah, my ex has esteem issues....and I decided that I wasn't going along for the journey anymore....it was dragging me down too far.

April 22, 2006
11:43 pm
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hey guest-i have to comment on the food thing. i grew up with a demanding controlling alchoholic father. we were only allowed to eat what he chose for meals and nothing else. i rebelled constantly. looked like a stick growing up.even now there are some foods i will not eat because of it. now i am grown and u wouldn't believe the snacks and stuff i keep for my family and any kids that come by. my kitchen is always jammed full. nobody goes without here. i am well aware it is because of the abuse imposed on me as a child. and everybody gets a say so in what is cooked and i dont demand anybody eat what they dont like. it's odd how such small things can change your whole outlook on life isn't it???

April 23, 2006
12:01 am
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it's odd that i haven't thought about the food wars for years. i remember one time my dad decided he was going to MAKE me eat corn. a week later he gave up.after seven days of butt beatings i would have died before i ate it. i'm only glad school was in (ate at school)

i can't believe i had forgotten about all that.

April 23, 2006
1:11 am
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oh guest-
a great big hug for ya

((((((guest))))

i'm so sorry your mom treated u like that.

April 23, 2006
11:42 am
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alicat

>> staying true to what you believe in is key << yea! Thats what I have to get good at. I feel I'm above average intelligent and can do this, but, there are times which are tough like yesterday morning where I was feeling total despair for a few hours. But then it got better in the day later. I had some attitude change last night which is carying on to today until now, where I'm believing that my happiness is inside me. Where I can "catch" feeling anxiety and feeling dependence on external sources of happiness, such as this girl. It looks like then, for a healthy person 80% of their happiness comes from inside, and 20% from outside - something like that, you get the idea. The mahority of our happiness has to come from inside. We are our most dependable source of happiness. Its like dependence on foerign oil. I gotta start making Hydrogen fuel cells inside me and have that as the source of energy, instead of foriegn oil (like that girl), which just doesnt do it for me. _____gupppy__ thanks for the hug! one of the nicest hugs I got on this site, I get few since I'm usually cold and distant. Aw thanks. thats good, so you learnt positive stuff from your father's wrong treatment! very good. I'm glad you survived atleast that thing positively. Having an Ok day here, with more inner peace but nothing as too much inner peace eh.

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