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Question on self-love
April 18, 2006
11:04 am
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If we start behaving towards ourselves, the way we do in real relationships towards our loved ones.

If we start having those same fears such as

- He doesnt love me (instead of "she doesnt love me")

If instead of being depressed and thinking that she'll never love me, would it help if I replaced "she" with "HE" - as in ME ?

That is, I fear that I wont love myself. Or, I dont love myself.

How would this be. Would it go anywhere positively?

Get my point, you know? I wonder if this could help in self-love because the SHE would actually be ME, a person who I have control over. SHE the girl is not one I have control over, she's another person outside of me. ME is me, inside me.

Sort of being co-dependently in love with ourselves.

Does this go anywhere?

April 18, 2006
11:32 am
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And soif everytime I feared if she loves me or not, I change that question around to come to MYSELF and say:

"I fear if I love myself."

That would help, yes?

But as again, I come up with new ideas which seem to lose their effectiveness, they become boring and I feel they wont work.

Anyway its still an interesting idea, I think - to change that question because self-love is what really is the issue. Its not whether she loves me or not. Its whether *I* love myself or not.

April 18, 2006
12:00 pm
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I feel very sad when I doubt whether she loves me, or whether I'll be able to love her.

If I could have the same fear for myself with the question: "I dont know if I love myself. I doubt if I accept myself", then maybe things could be different. Maybe I could start loving myself with everything else falling in place too.

April 18, 2006
12:30 pm
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Self love is something im going to be working on. I think if we could love ourselves people with have an easier time loving us. Thats when we can be fully open to love. It does take a lot of self talk. I havent started yet but im pregnat now so what a better time to start. I wish you well on your work with this its not going to be an easy task but it is an important one

April 18, 2006
1:42 pm
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RW thanks for sharing! best of luck to you too.

April 19, 2006
5:00 am
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Something on the inner child healing

From the site joy2meu.com

Inner Child Healing - How to begin "Recovery involves bringing to consciousness those beliefs and attitudes in our subconscious that are causing our dysfunctional reactions so that we can reprogram our ego defenses to allow us to live a healthy, fulfilling life instead of just surviving. So that we can own our power to make choices for ourselves about our beliefs and values instead of unconsciously reacting to the old tapes. Recovery is consciousness raising. It is en-light-en-ment - bringing the dysfunctional attitudes and beliefs out of the darkness of our subconscious into the Light of consciousness. On an emotional level the dance of Recovery is owning and honoring the emotional wounds so that we can release the grief energy - the pain, rage, terror, and shame that is driving us.

That shame is toxic and is not ours - it never was! We did nothing to be ashamed of - we were just little kids. Just as our parents were little kids when they were wounded and shamed, and their parents before them, etc., etc. This is shame about being human that has been passed down from generation to generation.

There is no blame here, there are no bad guys, only wounded souls and broken hearts and scrambled minds."

(Quotations in this color are from Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls) Inner child work is in one way detective work. We have a mystery to solve. Why have I have I been attracted to the the type of people that I have been in relationship with in my life? Why do I react in certain ways in certain situations? Where did my behavior patterns come from? Why do I sometimes feel so: helpless; lonely; desperate; scared; angry; suicidal; etc.

Just starting to ask these types of questions, is the first step in the healing process. It is healthy to start wondering about the cause and effect dynamics in our life.

In our codependence, we reacted to life out of a black and white, right and wrong, belief paradigm that taught us that is was shameful and bad to be wrong, to make mistakes, to be imperfect - to be human. We formed our core relationship with our self and with life in early childhood based on the messages we got, the emotional trauma we suffered, and the role modeling of the adults around us. As we grew up, we built our relationship with self, other people, and life on the foundation we formed in early childhood.

When we were 5, we were already reacting to life out of the emotional trauma of earlier ages. We adapted defenses to try to protect ourselves and to get our survival needs met. The defenses adapted at 5 due to the trauma suffered at earlier ages led to further trauma when we were 7 that then caused us to adjust our defenses, that led to wounding at 9, etc., etc., etc.

Toxic shame is the belief that there is something inherently wrong with who we are, with our being. Guilt is "I made a mistake, I did something wrong." Toxic shame is: "I am a mistake. There is something wrong with me."

It is very important to start awakening to the Truth that there is nothing inherently wrong with our being - it is our relationship with our self and with life that is dysfunctional. And that relationship was formed in early childhood.

The way that one begins inner child healing is simply to become aware.

To become aware that the governing principle in life is cause and effect. To become aware that our relationship with our self is dysfunctional.

To become aware that we have the power to change our relationship with our self.

To become aware that we were programmed with false beliefs about the purpose and nature of life in early childhood - and that we can change that programming.

To become aware that we have emotional wounds from childhood that it is possible to get in touch with and heal enough to stop them from dictating how we are living our life today. That is the purpose of inner child healing - to stop letting our experiences of the past dictate how we respond to life today. It cannot be done without revisiting our childhood. We need to become aware, to raise our consciousness. To create a new level of consciousness for ourselves that allows us to observe ourselves.

It is vitally important to start observing ourselves - our reactions, our feelings, our thoughts - from a detached witness place that is not shaming.

We all have an inner critic, a critical parent voice, that beats us up with shame, judgment, and fear. The critical parent voice developed to try to control our emotions and our behaviors because we got the message there was something wrong with us and that our survival would be threatened if we did, said, or felt the "wrong" things.

It is vital to start learning how to not give power to that critical shaming voice. We need to start observing ourselves with compassion. This is almost impossible at the beginning of the inner child healing process - having compassion for our self, being Loving to our self, is the hardest thing for us to do.

So, we need to start observing ourselves from at least a more neutral perspective. Become a scientific observer, a detective - the Sherlock Holmes of your own inner process as it were.

We need to start being that detective, observing ourselves and asking ourselves where that reaction / thought / feeling is coming from. Why am I feeling this way? What does this remind me of from my past? How old do I feel right now? How old did I act when that happened?

One of the amazing things about this process, is that as one starts to become more aware of our own reactions, we also start to become more aware of others. We start seeing when the people in our lives are reacting like a little kid, or adolescent, or teenager, or whatever. The more we become aware of their reactions, the easier it becomes to stop taking their behavior personally - which then makes it easier to detach from our own reactions and observe ourselves.

It is an amazing, miraculous process, that can help us to change our relationship with our self, with other people, and with life. Becoming more aware, becoming conscious of a new way of looking at ourselves and life is the beginning of a process of learning to forgive and Love our self.

A detective always looks at cause and effect. By becoming a detective, solving the mystery of why we have lived our lives as we have, we can start to free ourselves from our past. By doing the inner child healing, we can start to learn how to really be alive instead of just surviving and enduring.

((((Garfield))))

April 19, 2006
8:58 am
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Hi Guest 🙂

Would it help to think about & list your best characteristics, as you see them? I mean those attributes you wouldn't want to change? The positive ones that definhe your self-image, which you are proud of?

I'd like to risk daring to suggest an exercise that might be misunderstood as boasting. I've tried it in a supportive group setting where we all took turns at saying POSITIVE things about ourselves that we are happy about (or proud of, as you Americans tend to say!) and wouldn't6 want to lose or change. This is wonderful at accessing our core selves & re-discovering self-esteem, imho.

C'mon ... I will if you will! Lol. I dare you!

Blessings - gazelle (who needs this sort of stuff too.)

April 19, 2006
9:33 am
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Gazelle i think that is a great idea....can anyone join in??

go on, you first

April 19, 2006
11:59 am
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hi Garfield, thats a real good reading! I'll come back to it later. THIS is the stuff I need to spend my time on. Atleast I'm talking to you guys so thats good. I need to do more.

Gazelle___, it was just yesterday evening I was thinking of making a list like that but wasnt "ready". I think I'll start making a list on my computer at home and then post it when I'm ready, when I think its pretty much what I can think of.

lol, ok then. thanks for daring me! This means I HAVE to do it now, which is good for me.

You guys go ahead with the list. I'll post mine if and when I come up with it which should be soon.

But hey. that doesnt answer my original post on this thread. Anyway, I'll think on that later too, its pretty interesting which is:

What if we were co-dependently in love with ourself? Does that even mean anything? If so, what? etc.etc.. too many questions.

April 19, 2006
12:03 pm
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guest-how r u doing this fine beautiful morning? having a better day?

April 19, 2006
1:21 pm
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hi guppy, thanks for asking! I'm doing better, since I had good sleep last night which has become really rare in the past months. I hope I get the same tonight too. Its easier to feel relaxed in that. Now I feel I got a lot to do, there's the internet and a lotttt more. Dont know what to get doing first, I guess I'll chill and do some of each as time goes.

April 19, 2006
1:33 pm
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To answer your question

If instead of being depressed and thinking that she'll never love me, would it help if I replaced "she" with "HE" - as in ME ?

That is, I fear that I wont love myself. Or, I dont love myself.

How would this be. Would it go anywhere positively?

Get my point, you know? I wonder if this could help in self-love because the SHE would actually be ME, a person who I have control over. SHE the girl is not one I have control over, she's another person outside of me. ME is me, inside me."

If you look at co-dependency I do not know if that would work?????

Sort of being co-dependently in love with ourselves
"
Co-dependencly have to be replaced with interdependency. Then I think it can work.
LOOK at this

Something from joy2meu.com

"Codependency is about having a dysfunctional relationship with self! With our own bodies, minds, emotions, and spirits. With our own gender and sexuality. With being human. Because we have dysfunctional relationships internally, we have dysfunctional relationships externally. Codependency is an emotional and behavioral defense system which our egos adapted in early childhood to help us survive. We were raised in shame based, emotionally dishonest, Spiritually hostile environments by parents who were wounded in their childhoods by patriarchal, shame based civilization that treated children and women as property. We formed our core relationship with self in early childhood - and built our relationship with self, life, and other humans based on that foundation. Programmed to feel shame about being imperfect humans, and trained to be emotionally dishonest, we were set up to live life reacting to the emotional trauma and dysfunctional intellectual programming of childhood. Because we feel shame about being human, we have a relationship with life that does not work to bring us Joy or inner peace.

We do not have the power to change others - we do have the power to change our relationship with self by healing our codependency / wounded souls. We can access the capacity to accept, embrace, forgive, have compassion for, and set boundaries with, all parts of self. Learning to Love our self will allow us to gain the capacity to Love others in a healthy way. Changing our relationship with life can transform life into an exciting adventure." ~ Robert Burney

"It is necessary to own and honor the child who we were in order to Love the person we are. And the only way to do that is to own that child's experiences, honor that child's feelings, and release the emotional grief energy that we are still carrying around."

"Codependence is an emotional and behavioral defense system which was adopted by our egos in order to meet our need to survive as a child. Because we had no tools for reprogramming our egos and healing our emotional wounds (culturally approved grieving, training and initiation rites, healthy role models, etc.), the effect is that as an adult we keep reacting to the programming of our childhood and do not get our needs met - our emotional, mental, Spiritual, or physical needs. Codependence allows us to survive physically but causes us to feel empty and dead inside. Codependence is a defense system that causes us to wound ourselves."

"Codependence is a very vicious and powerful form of Delayed Stress Syndrome. The trauma of feeling like we were not safe in our own homes makes it very difficult to feel like we are safe anywhere. Feeling like we were not lovable to our own parents makes it very difficult to believe that anyone can Love us."

((((((Garfield)))))

April 19, 2006
2:03 pm
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Hey guest-i got an idea for ya!! why dont u email your friends and catch up. i'm sure that would make u feel better.

April 19, 2006
3:23 pm
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Garfield thanks for that first article. I usually dont read long articles but I'm glad I did in this case.

"To become aware that we have the power to change our relationship with our self. "

Wow, can you see that "our self" is a different way of saying "ourself"? Its a great way of looking at things. And how true that sentence is. My relationship with my self and not "myself". Interesting.

The second article was great too.

I was listening to this music I love and read the article at the same time, I had my eyes wet at times! Everything came together. I feel I'm almost there, you know? To where I want to be at, gosh. This is very emotional right now. Is it the music? Maybe its a good idea to listen to the music we love while we think about ourselves.

Thats some good stuff in those articles that need to be deeply understood and never forgotten. I've seen that site before but there seemed so much to read so I never got to doing it.

Ahhh. A good sigh.

Coming back to the question I asked initially. I think what I meant to say is, everytime I thought of whether SHE loves me, I should think whether *I* love myself. That would atleast help focus on fixing myself, instead of being a blind co-dependent. Thats what I mean, I think. Sorry didnt make it clear, it was hard to do so in that first post.

I'm feeling very glowing and "pristine", maybe its the music.

It IS good music, its a family tape we used to listen to so it has that value and ofcourse the music is just wonderful. What it is, is, instrumental music of normal pop songs and stuff, by the UK group "The Shadows".

April 19, 2006
3:24 pm
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guppy, I dont have any friends I can just email, but I would love to sit among them right now yes, since I'm feeling great or atleast good about myself right now.

But my next question is concerning that which I'll ask in the following post.

April 19, 2006
3:27 pm
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Another important question:

What do we do, when we, the recovering people are in a good mood? Should we abandon our self-help mission and for example, start enjoying other people and reach out?

OR, do we keep the focus inside and strengthen the messages of self-love, because it might be that these messages are most effectively absorbed when we're feeling good about ourselves?

Its like saying, the aeroplane gets a stronger "lift" from the air when its travelling on the ground faster during take off - assuming the same amount of wing angle. Its kind of technical, but know what I mean?

Thats the big question, what should we do in our good moods? We dont want to be riding roller coasters of depression and highs all our life. What can I do so that I'm able to keep myself longer and longer on the "high" happy ride? And go into the depressed state, less and less.

These are really deep questions. I should archive them and ask professionals because they're very important.

Maybe the difference between successful and failed recovery is then, what we do when we're in the "high" stage.

April 19, 2006
3:49 pm
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I'm having highs highs highs. Wonder how long this will last. Hmm! Better have my seatbelts fastened when I come down cause its gonna be biiiiig. Just/kidding I hope not.

Or maybe its not a high at all, I dont know what it is. Oh well, I'll see.

April 19, 2006
4:25 pm
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If you are on a high thats great. Stay there for as long as you can and ENJOY the MOMENT.

This is not a time to reach out to others. Its a time to reach out to yourself and allow yourself to just enjoy

(((((((((((Garfield)))))))))))

April 19, 2006
4:28 pm
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guest

will catch up we you tomorrow again.

Enjoy the music and the night.

Good night

((Garfield))

April 19, 2006
4:46 pm
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garfield, thats a good point! A time to enjoy myself, thanks! Have a good evening you too. good night :). thanks again for the articles. Gosh so much to do. AND I got an inquiry from a job person! Ah. Got to study about the company. Too many things to do, but this is exciting too, eeeee.

April 20, 2006
9:57 am
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Another day. Not feeling that good today. Not as good as yesterday atleast. Maybe because a little bit groggy.

I just feel sad about that girl and think its not gonna work out or something. Then I tell myself this is me, its my current bad self-love thats the cause.

In a little positive note I read Dr. Branden last night again where he said that the first step to healing is becoming one with our body and accepting. I've had this idea before that, how much physical needs are important and now he's talking about the same thing so I feel ready to accept what he's saying. He said many successful methods have been designed for that.

Its amazing. It looks like then I'll start with body integration. Simply its, looking in our body for signals: hunger, tiredness, soreness, connecting with it, not ignoring it etc.

I might have lunch with the girl. I long for her a lot and fear so much losing her. I want her to be mine, I want to be happy with her. Will I be happy? I dont know. heh. I just cant let go of these thoughts even though - I know I have to first focus on self-love. But damnit what if I lose her. I dont want to.

Oh well.

Sorry I turn many threads into my personal journals, well atleast this is a thread I started myself and I've always written my thoughts somewhere.

I just wish I was happy all the time and in self-love. There are many people who can do it - all of those who dont come and who dont need to come to sites like these :(. Thats the truth. But then, we have our good moments too like I had mine yesterday.

I dont know what it is thats making me feel bad. sigh.

Physical state: A little tired but not like other days. I did sleep through and through AGAIN.. which is nice! I should be thankful. Now I'm feeling better and I feel like saying that I love her. Eee. My mind just wanders back to her the moment I start feeling better. lol. Sheet.

oh well. Will try to read Dr. Nathan. I hope my lunch with her goes nice. I like her very much and I want her to be mineeee.

Hey we were taking food from Taco Bell and I had a moment of personal peace and she took my hand and held it and squeezed it. She loves it when I'm feeling peaceful inside. Its so nice for both of us. gosh. Wish I could stay that way all the time.

And what if I get a job in the other state? I'll miss her and will want her to move in with me, but I dont know if she will. I wish I could assure her and make her feel safe and peaceful. But my shifty nature from peaceful to unsettled is what prevents her from feeling secure in me. Plus, the aggression I showed to her before.

What can I do except hope for the best.

Ok done here for my journal I guess, more thoughts to come if they come.

April 20, 2006
1:43 pm
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not a good day gosh! not feeling rested and my head is groggy. My lunch with the girl didnt go as good as it could. I think I came off as being needy and depressive at times, but anyway. Its very painful. Sometimes it feels it'll never work out, with her or anyone else. I have to remember to keep the focus on me which is very hard to do.

April 20, 2006
3:13 pm
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Feeling so groggy!

The lunch, it didnt go well at all. It was a sort of disaster, I guess all cause of my own issues. OMG. This feels so hopeless.

I dont know if all this is cause of my groggyness. Ch.

I feel horrible and hopeless. What does one do in these times when everything seems to be falling apart. Ch ch. Oh god.

April 20, 2006
7:12 pm
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"What does one do in these times when everything seems to be falling apart."

One feels the dirt beneath one's bare feet, tastes the coffee, smells the roses, listens to the birds sing and watches a glorious sunset. One gets into the moment in the 'here and now'.

Then there is no one to be found who is "falling apart".

April 20, 2006
7:27 pm
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oh my gosh Tez, Now I feel better. God damnit, why does this happen to me.

It spoilt my whole lunch with her. I try to trace back steps and see what I should have been feeling, saying and doing - its extrtemely hard!

I think you're saying "relax and slow down and feel yourself, give yourself time" - is that what you're saying? Thats very good advice. Damnit, why cannot I be OK in my bad moods. Shit. I totally screwed up the lunch - gave off an uneasy and negative air, Ch ch ch.

So what is the ONE rule for me to follow? First I have to be AWARE that this isnt going righht. There I go, BACK in the same cycle. Now I'll start making up 5 threads about how to be centered or asking what to do. lol. Gosh.

Anyway. I have no idea what the Hell happened. I know I was feeling not Ok to begin with.

Feeling a little bit Ok. Why? I dont know. I think I forced myself into a "fix". During this fixing time, its very hard, it seems nothing is going to work but it did, to some extent. Atleast I feel much better now. I know I could handle that lunch now with better performance.

Oh you know. Dr Nathan talked about meditation and said some people feel anger initally while doing it. The other site I went to, people were complaing of the same issue. Dr. N said meditation is like that because it allows emotions to pour out. Later stages of meditation are calmer. I have the bhuddist meeting this sunday.

You can just see the difference. I'm more centered now. Why not before. Why. I look back at the damage I did at lunch time. I wish this didnt happen to me.

Unresolved emotions and feelings and not communicating with myself - thats the big problem.

How do I learn to start communicating with myself under all conditions? I.e. asking what I'm feeling and thinking and responding to the emotional disturbances, which if left unresolved, wreck the whole experience for me.

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