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Prophetic ministries
January 4, 2010
4:30 pm
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horsefly
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Honestly, Nobody started this. I am just interested. My N mother just started a gay demonstration in her small methodist church. My oldest sister that died 9 years ago was gay. She explained that in Matthews ... of the bible. That it was acceptable. No one wants to hear it. Not that I am saying anyone is gay here. But the world is wide open to beliefs. Just like every mouse is different. Every piece of dust is different. Every ladybug is different. Every horse is different. So why can't we all think different ? HF

January 4, 2010
4:43 pm
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horsefly
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Mary, Not sure about the universe loving me or you,,

But it has too. Love, HF

January 4, 2010
4:48 pm
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horsefly
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Of course, I could be a have not. Always a possibility. HF

January 4, 2010
5:39 pm
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I DON'T MIND QUESTIONING THE EXISTANCE OF GOD. As a matter of fact I have done it a time or two myself.

I turned away from God and wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with Him until I worked with a lady who had an inner peace about her and I set about to find out what it was so that I could have it. Guess what it was? The God I believe in gave us all brains and expects us to use them.

Lillibit....ask away. If I have an answer I will give it. If I don't I will say I don't

Bitsy

January 4, 2010
7:45 pm
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horsefly
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In the Bible ......I guess in Mathews : There is something about sometimes men are born from woman's womb. So are women..........goes something like that.

Politicians ignore that .......in Mathews ((the bible))

I for one am not gay. But it is in there. Probably everything is in the bible if looked at close enough. HF

January 4, 2010
7:57 pm
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horsefly
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Maybe.....I forgot , women and men are born from women's womb, but most become service to the LOrd. Explains why so many priest go sour. But I need to read the bible more to understand this. All I know is she has gotten alot more gay members in her church . They call her MaMa. This is has made my Nmom a happy person. So much for N supply for her. That is also why she doesn't need me. How about that? HF

January 4, 2010
8:34 pm
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horsefly
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I consider myself lucky to have the Methodist faith I grew up in. Very much more open to to all. My aunt and uncle for one were the good for all ( in the associations or orphanages ) adopting foster children. But unfortunately, the foster child took over and I am nothing now because she wanted the money willed to her. JULIE

But, I got the love, not the recipe book, or money.

Evil will continue as always.

She was buried with purple and honour and love...plus a golden plate next to her pew. HF My dad's sister I lost my dad when I was 6. HF

January 4, 2010
8:45 pm
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horsefly
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Tough for me to even talk about....I did. These are things I don't talk about. So I am not writing for anyone, but myself. These are honest reminders I feel I have to get out of myself.....no advise here, no joke, just things I so have stuffed...in. HF

January 4, 2010
9:11 pm
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horsefly
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PS My son was catholic.......I did not convert. I married on a creek.....with my Methodist Uncle. In the 1983.....that was not easy street.

I was never accepted.....until I told them he was baptist catholic ....ole school. Deal.

How many deals I made with the devil...bargaining....I forget. HF

January 4, 2010
9:41 pm
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horsefly
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Sorry, They knew who my faith and my uncle's too in the 1984. Mine was nature. I forgot.....but that was my first beginning for bargaining with evil. HF

January 4, 2010
9:44 pm
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WHich (witch) is denial.

January 4, 2010
9:48 pm
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CraigCo
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Bitsy,

My cpu crashed as I was trying to reply to your scolding last nite.
Haven't read all of the recent postings from today but, I hope you & Ma have calmed down by now. I wasn't attacking you or anyone. And who said to believe in nothing? Not I! I didn't even remotely suggest that. Nor did I laugh in anyones face. And why, I wonder, is it ok for Xtians to hurl insults? ie, "young & thoughtless"? without falling into the "bashing" category? Not to worry though as I won't loose a lick of sleep over it.

You guys are not the repository of all truth regarding speech. I've listened to that kind of shite all too often during my life to bow down to it now. Not gonna happen. Your arguments for censoring my word usage have no merit & I won't allow myself to be intimidated by that type of bullying by either you or Ma. You're just going to have to find a way to live past it. You can continue your attempts at "straightening" me out but, the odds are you'll only perpetuate the disgruntlement here. You could refer to the Tooth Fairy as "Xfairy" if that would cheer you up? It sure won't bother me.

It would appear that you either didn't read or understand the definition of "Xtian" that I'd provided earlier. It's a word (albeit an acronym) in the English language meaning Christ. To reiterate - It is 'NOT' slanderous. Not unlike many other words, it can take on an entirely different meaning depending on the context in which it is uttered. I think that is a very salient point and one that you seemed to have conveniently skipped over. Maybe you ought to invest in a "Websters" if you don't want to believe me. Knock yourself out - go nuts - have atter!

And "No" I wouldn't laugh at a retarded person. Why? Are you trying to say that Xtians are mentally challenged & simply don't know any better? Is that the correlation that you were trying to draw between mental illness & Xiatinty? Personally, I don't think your "retarded". Perhaps misled, uniformed, conditioned or maybe just desperate. I can only speculate as to the reasons for your belief in this particular myth. But hey - whatever floats your boat! Personally, I'd rather have my beliefs based in something that I know is real. There are lots of stories/myths in this world. The bible is but one of them.

Maybe those who get excessively wound up about this petty spelling issue should just "chill out" & go read a bible story. After all, isn't that the supposed source of all happiness? Or is their a chapter encouraging confrontation hidden somewhere in the back?

I think any Xtian would be well advised to just check out that vid link that Tez provided. What harm could there be in hearing another believers slant on things? Mix a little bit of rationality into the brew. Or would that be considered a tool of the devil?

Meanwhile, "Peace" to you.

Crg

January 4, 2010
10:43 pm
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horsefly
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Craig, You are really a true color. (What does that mean ?

Nice but hurtful. Maybe you should be back in the roman times and kill everyone in the arena? What is that called? Hf

January 4, 2010
10:47 pm
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Or are you too smart to know? HF

January 4, 2010
10:51 pm
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Noble ? haha

January 4, 2010
10:56 pm
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horsefly
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Even heard of a lizard that changes colors?

Merry XMas

January 5, 2010
1:23 am
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andii
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When somebody says "hey I find that a bit insulting and it hurts my feelings" isn't the appropriate response "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to"

?

January 5, 2010
6:23 am
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CraigCo

Thanks for your interseting response to the Coyne-Dawkins video.

Speaking of Father Coyne, you wrote:

"Father Coyne's beliefs are certainly a real departure from the conventional Xtian school of thought. Interesting how he has managed to reconcile science with his faith. (at least to his own satisfaction)"

Yes, I agree. It is as though he has compartmentalized his mind into that of a skeptical evidence demanding scientist and that which is ready, willing and able to accept the traditions of the Catholic Church based upon faith in the veracity of their hand-me-down anecdotes alone.

And you observed:

"... Interesting too, that he is accepting of Darwin's theory. In fact, he didn't even like to call it a "theory" as he fully believes that evolution is abundantly & undeniably evident."

Yes, he certainly has no time for creationism - that is self-evident.

"A relatively reasonable Xtian - how refreshing! Not afraid of the big questions nor is he condescending/sanctimonious."

Yes, again I wholeheartedly agree. He is indeed a humble man of much the same ilk in that regard as Dawkins.

You added:

"He admits to becoming catholic due to his upbringing and admitted that had he been brought up under different circumstances he would likely have believed in a different God. It's all subjective really, isn't it?"

It is quite interesting that it was this exact realisation at the age of 8 or 9 that raised the first doubts in Richard Dawkins about the veracity of what he was being taught about xtianity. Dawkins realised at that tender age that his religious beliefs were based upon an accident of his berth and not on anything else;that is, his prior conditioning.

Then you wrote:

"Bottom line: Slice it any way you like - Xtianity is simply a faith based belief system supported by nothing more than opinion."

Seems that way to me too.

Here's a fantastic video of the debate between Dawkins, the atheistic scientist and Lennox, the xtain scientist and mathematician, that is worth watching. It is 1hr 40mins long. But it is fascinating to see two superior scientific minds go hammer and tong at it - as it were. It is amazing to see the brilliant rationality of Lennox's superior intellect suddenly disintegrate into emotionally charged blind faith in his belief in the veracity of the xtain scriptures in the last 3 to 5 minutes of what was prior to that a superb interchange.

Here is the fascinating Dawkins-Lennox debate in its entirety.

January 5, 2010
7:01 am
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Getting back to the origin of the abbreviation of Christian to Xtain, I seem to remember another abbreviation along that same line featuring prominently on the altar in the church that I once attended. that abbreviation was PX - based on the first letters of the Greek words for the Peace of Christ- that is, the X is short for the Greek word ???st?? (Khristós). This hardly seems to be derogatory in any sense.

January 5, 2010
8:29 am
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CraigCo
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andii,

When someone intentionally insults another because they didn't like a "certain word" they used, wouldn't the appropriate response be "I'm sorry" as well?? Funny how none of the self proclaimed Xtians want to address that, huh? That's expected though.

Some Xtians like to operate under the guise of tolerance but, use one word that they don't care for and "Poof" their true colours come shining thru. They'll put you down & then turn their back. Arrogantly assertive in their own beliefs & evidently not so tolerant after all. But...that's THEIR shit - not mine!

I believe Ma is a good soul but that does not give her license to slander me.

So, if I refuse to bend/be censored by any Xtians attempt to arbitrarily impose speech guidelines upon me, then they are free to degrade me for it? Makes no sense what-so-ever & I would have expected Ma to know better. But alas, it's just another case of "double standards" and that is typical Xtian protocol.

I think Ma knows this as she is certainly no dummy. Maybe things are tough for her now or maybe she's just being stubborn. I don't know & don't really care. I can't control her & don't want to even try.

Crg

Ma,

I do wish you happiness in any event, Ma. Know this, when I use the word "Xtian" it is not intended as a slam. It's a real word, part of the English language, easier to type & clear in definition. Now had I said something like "Those fucking Xtians are so damed full of themselves" then I might understand you taking offence. But, that didn't happen, nor anything even remotely similar to that, did it? That said, I hope you can see your way clear to exercise the kind of tolerance that you have demonstrated in the past. Life's too short for this bickering, isn't it?

Peace to you!

Crg

January 5, 2010
8:47 am
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CraigCo
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Tez,

Thot I'd shoot you a line here before I lay my wearly melon down to sleep.

I appreciate your intelligent responses amidst the chaos that seems to have developed here. I'm looking forward to checking out that Dawkins/Lennox debate one of these nights. Should be a good watch. Thanks again!

As I can hardly keep my eyes open, I'll have to pull the plug now and bid you farewell until next we meet.

In the interim, take it easy!

C

January 5, 2010
9:06 am
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Craigco...I am fairly tolerant. Enough of this. Sweet dreams and good night.

Bitsy

January 5, 2010
9:21 am
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soofoo
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Andii,
Yes it is the appropriate response, when you respect the person you have offended. This is what you do when you step on someone's toes by accident also. You don't say, "Hey, what are you whining about, should I just not walk because I might step on your toes? Don't you see that you are cutting off walking all over this nation by complaining about your toes when I step on them? Shouldn't I be allowed to walk where ever I want, or do I always have to be thinking about you and your toes?"

Obviously, a person who responds this way either has some issues or is in a very foul mood. I'm leaning toward deep seated issues for this particular discussion though.

Perhaps there are people here who really don't know the difference between insulting someone, and having a different opinion. But it seems unlikely.

How do we overcome the lingering presence of our parents in our own minds? This is the real issue here.

January 5, 2010
10:25 am
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marypoppins
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Lillabit,

You wrote yesterday:

Lillabit
4-Jan-10

"...I have been thinking of leaving my church. Ive gone to it all my life. ive been visiting other churches but i am finding the same intolerance im all these other cnurches as at mine and what I see in this thread. you have to stick to the lingo, the credo or they get all freaked out. Some of the people at my church have left because there are some memebers that dont allow certaint thimgs to be talked about. when people try to talk about anything the slightest bit deffernt, they are told they are rude, shamed in these little hard to detect ways. they werent trying to change the service or Bible study, just comsider that there might be a different interpretation or explanation. They were told that they were disrespectful. I tried to talk to the pastor about it but he wouldmt comment on it. I hate to leave my church, it's a social thing for me, a family thing. I love my churcn. but the lack of tolerance and the ways this group of people get others to shut up then leave is hurting me to witness it. They are taking over, ad its not the way everyone in the congregation feels."

I copied and pasted your post because so many other posts came after, and I wanted to comment directly about what you shared.

First, thank you for sharing part of your life. I'm really sorry to hear about what's happening in your church and that you might have to leave because of it. I understand and respect the social connection you described. It's very difficult when what was once a safe and warm place begins to change, and the one in charge, in this case, your pastor, is unwilling to intervene. Politics?

Have you read the thread on this side of the board entitled "Question for Ma Strong..."? If you posted to Ma on that thread, she might be able to give you some guidance since she's a pastor.

I just wanted you to know that I "heard" you.

Mary

January 5, 2010
10:52 am
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Thanks Mary for pulling that out. Lillibet, I lost my church in a divorce. I do understand.

Bitsy

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