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Prayer:
February 14, 2005
3:55 am
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All:

I'm a pretty busy guy. If I have failed to address anyone's point(s) it is through my failing to see, read or remember the posting - it is not intentional. Please post your questions, points, perceived ensnarements, etc right below my nose before Alzhiemer's Syndrome takes over completely. :-).

Shalom - Om Shanti - Namaste - Via Con Dias - take your pick.

February 14, 2005
5:05 am
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GullyFoyle
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My SweetAmanda,

No, no IVs. Just started eating again and taking my vitamins like a good little boy.

I love you, too (((Snuggles)))

Tez,

So what are your views on this matter? I don't remember seeing them posted.

February 14, 2005
9:11 am
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SweetAmanda
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yeah thanks for saying nice things about me and all.

But you guys have gotta keep at like a grade 9 english level here. No joke. I am only a public high school grad. LOL Okay?

=)

February 14, 2005
9:33 am
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SweetAmanda
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But Tez,

You do make some very good points.

There are questions that will never be answered in this life.

But I refuse to believe that there is no God.

I heard a cool debate yesterday on the radio (I listen to Moody) and it was something like "Is there meaning in pain and suffering?" All I got to hear was the 3rd part of the 4-part series. I am going to order a copy of all 4 though.

They took questions from people from universities from all over and posed them to 4 people. A Hindu priest, an Atheist professor (who is also the founder of a magazine I think?) and a guy that I like to listen to 'preach' Ravi Zacharias. Also one other guy. I forget his name.

There, I just googled it and pasted what I found from his website:

"Ravi debates the difficult question, "Is There Meaning in Evil and Suffering" at the Faith and Science Lecture Forum. Ravi's address is followed by a rebuttal from three panelists: Dr. Bernard Leikind, a plasma physicist, senior editor at Skeptic Magazine and a renowned atheist; Dr. Jitendra Mohanty, one of India's most noted Hindu philosophers and a distinguished professor at Emory University in Atlanta; and William Lane Craig, a noted author, Christian philosopher and apologist. After the rebuttals and Ravi's response, the audience asks questions." http://www.rzim.org

I think you can listen to it online. You should. =)

February 14, 2005
12:11 pm
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white dove
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tez
all im going to say is,

God loves you.

February 14, 2005
1:12 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Thank you Twinks for the reminder of why this thread on Prayer was started. It was actually started to give Ren'ai comfort thru her mom's problem; sorry Ren'ai, can't remember
what is was.

Everyone is welcome on every thread. They should be there to support and uplift the other folks. Unfortunately, some folks like causing dissension and the showing of partisan and contentious behavior in order to elevate themselves and to confuse and frustrate others.

Following are a few verses from the Bible regarding dissension. The Lord's words; not mine.

Who plots evil with deceit in his heart - he always stirs up dissension. Proverbs 6:14

A false witness who pours out lies, and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. Proverbs 6:19

Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs. Proverbs 10:12

A hot-tempered man stirs up dissension, but a patient man calms a quarrel. Proverbs 15:18

A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends. Proverbs 16:28

A greedy man stirs up dissension, but he who trusts tin the Lord will prosper. Proverbs 28:25

An angry man stirs up dissension, and a hot-tempered one commits many sins. Proverbs 29:22

I stopped speaking earlier on the thread coz Tez validated my point, although later tried to dissect same point, and I therefore had nothing else to say. I also feel that meaningless argument meant for the purpose of confusion and to "tear apart" is not worth participating in.
My Bible tells me on this subject that:

I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Romans 16:17-18

Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
2 Timothy 2:23-24

With all this in mind..... I feel this thread I started can end. A good debate is fun, but this has
become quarrelsome. I see no point in causing arguments and dissension among our family here.

One last thought:

Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25

February 14, 2005
2:02 pm
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sewunique
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welcome back, mamac

February 15, 2005
9:46 am
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jastypes
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1 Corinthians 1:18 says, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

February 15, 2005
9:47 am
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1 Cor 2:14 says:

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

February 15, 2005
6:34 pm
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SweetAmanda.

In your post of 14-Feb-05 you wrote:

"But I refuse to believe that there is no God."

And that of itself is not an issue with me. But if I can be of some little help in rationalizing and deepen your belief in a God of some kind to the point where it is a bulwark against whatever life throws at you, even your death or the death of your nearest and dearest, then I am gratified. It is the irrational belief in a God, one that fails under the onslaught of great grief, that is problematic.

And:

"Ravi debates the difficult question, 'Is There Meaning in Evil and Suffering' ... ... After the rebuttals and Ravi's response, the audience asks questions. http://www.rzim.org"

Thanks ... I'll check this out with great interest. You are obviously use your cognitive abilities.

And:

"I think you can listen to it online. You should. =)"

You can be sure that I will - thanks again.

February 15, 2005
6:39 pm
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GullyFoyle

On 14-Feb-05 you wrote:

"Tez,

So what are your views on this matter? I don't remember seeing them posted."

To which matter do you refer? Dieting? Healthy eating? I'm all fore it.

Vitamin supplements? One shouldn't need them if one's diet is balanced and sufficient.

Is that what you mean?

February 15, 2005
6:51 pm
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on my way

On 13-Feb-05 you said:

"Tez, I just read your poem on teh visitor's page. I don't understand, it seems to contradict all that you say here, on these threads. Your poem is very spiritual and based on a belief in God, love, the cross. So, why do you banter against God, or have I totally misunderstood you?"

In my poem, I posed many questions, but no answers. I had intended the poem to be food for thought.

I certainly do not hold the simplistic, irrational belief in the biblical God of Christianity.

I still await a submission or article of any kind from a Christian theologian or deep thinker who can rationalize the three prerequisites of Godhood mentioned many times above with all of human experiences throughout all of the ages.

Luv yah too!

February 15, 2005
6:53 pm
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white dove

For 14-Feb-05 thanks 🙂

February 15, 2005
7:12 pm
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Jastypes

Biblical quotes of the ilk of the above made by you are on 15-Feb-05 just like so much else in the bible, lacking in credibility.

Just taking one quote made by you, you said:

"1 Cor 2:14 says:

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

This is not rational. Not being rational it is not within the realm of the intellect.

It is within the realm of blind belief; blind belief in the existence of the third leg Trinity - the Holy Spirit and the veracity of the bible.

We are now in the realm of the Christian concepts of God as described in the bible that I totally reject upon the basis of the irreconcilibility of the three prerequisites of Godhood mentioned many times above.

February 15, 2005
7:15 pm
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Twinks

In your posting of 14-Feb-05 you amply demonstrated to me your lack of faith in the potential and the abilities of the people here to think for themselves and to express themselves.

I have no such lack of faith.

February 15, 2005
7:31 pm
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Mamacinnamon

On 14-Feb-05 you said:

"Unfortunately, some folks like causing dissension and the showing of partisan and contentious behavior"

I would interpret my behavior as presenting the opposite perspective with a view to 'balancing' what was otherwise a very lopsided thread.

And:

" ... in order to elevate themselves and to confuse and frustrate others."

Here you have attributed intentions that are possibly projections from your own unconscious. Are you feeling threatened by my questioning of illogical beliefs?

And:

"Following are a few verses from the Bible regarding dissension. The Lord's words; not mine. ... ... ... ..."

Yep!! The Bible has many verses that are defensive and fear driven. This is why I reject the veracity of the book itself as being any more than the writings of primitive tribal scribes trying to defend the indefensible. If any scriptural writings can't stand up to critical analysis based on some initial rational reference then they have little or no credibility. The three prerequisites of the Christian God is that reference.

If you are looking for support for your beliefs, as appears to be the case, then perhaps this thread belongs on the Support Page not the Liberation Brew Page.

February 15, 2005
7:47 pm
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on my way
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Tez, what happened to you from the time you wrote that poem to the time of now? If I may ask? I still say you are angry.....

February 15, 2005
7:52 pm
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sewunique
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Tez,

I believe it was suggested in the past that the prayer thread be brought up here to Lib's. So dancing around with ideas that mamaC is looking for support in her beliefs here and enmeshing those ideas that she should take it downstairs won't work. Sorry, about that one, Tez...Sew

February 15, 2005
8:41 pm
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mamacinnamon
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Tez:

This thread was originally started here in Liberation to accomodate the feelings of other patrons on this site that do not wish to see scripture in the support area.

The origin of this thread was in support and comfort for Ren'ai while her mom was ill.

There was no request for criticism or bantering. Only words of well wishing and prayers for Ren'ai and her mom.

Do you feel your opinion so important to step in and show contempt and disrespect for what was posted as comfort for Ren'ai? Do you have no respect for the feelings or needs that Ren'ai had at that time?

I don't mind your posts. I find them quite interesting and thought provoking. You do know your "stuff" as they say. As a person, I find you to be quite intelligent and actually to be an "ok" guy.

I just wish you had the candor and courtesy to show respect for someone hurting and maybe hold your thoughts for another time or another thread.
I realize at this point Ren'ai's crisis is over, but at the time it was not.

I would like to say "shame on you" in a respectful and courteous way.

"how bout that"

February 16, 2005
9:25 am
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Cici
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Ok people.

Time out.

Chill out.

RESPECT OTHER PEOPLES DIFFERING BELIEFS.

The nature of threads, hell, the nature of conversation - is that it evolves. Organically.

What I see here is a lot of defensiveness, and I must say not a few attacks as well.

February 16, 2005
9:26 am
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Cici
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I have no qualms about alerting the proper authorities and having threads deleted.

I really see a lot of crap being flung around and we are NOT bored monkeys.

February 16, 2005
9:29 am
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Cici
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Now take yer fight over to the "don't make me pull over" thread.

I ask this respectfully and hope that you don't take this as an attack and get passive aggressively defensive.

February 16, 2005
10:47 am
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sewunique
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Cici,

You sound upset with all the discussions going on here. Yes, it certainly has been interesting, here!

About your request to move from this thread title "Prayer" over to your new thread you made for us here titled: "Don't Make Me Pull Over", I do not see any value in that. I believe that was rather condensending. Unless I have misunderstood you and you were referring to muy post to Tez, in which I said:

You also said:

"I have no qualms about alerting the proper authorities and having threads deleted. "

That is entirely up to you. I personally do not see why or what it is that you feel should be deleted here? But I will tell you that it was upon the "authorities" request that the prayer thing be brought up to Libs awhile back, rather than to leave it down in the Support threads.

So that is why and how we are here. Quite befitting of one of the purposes and freedoms of the Liberation Brew's Threads, don't you think?

"I believe it was suggested in the past that the prayer thread be brought up here to Lib's"

So the Prayer thread is in Lib's and I do not see any reason why we should leave or to be asked to leave by you or anyone else.

Sew

February 16, 2005
10:58 am
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sewunique
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FOLKS, excuse me, my copy and paste omitted a section, which I now add this pasted in portion. Perhaps my post will be clearer!

sewunique
16-Feb-05

Cici,

You sound upset with all the discussions going on here. Yes, it certainly has been interesting, here!

About your request to move from this thread title "Prayer" over to your new thread you made for us here titled: "Don't Make Me Pull Over", I do not see any value in that. I believe that was rather condensending.

Unless I have misunderstood you and you were referring to MY post to Tez, in which I said:
sewunique
15-Feb-05

Tez,
I believe it was suggested in the past that the prayer thread be brought up here to Lib's. So dancing around with ideas that mamaC is looking for support in her beliefs here and enmeshing those ideas that she should take it downstairs won't work. Sorry, about that one, Tez...Sew

Cici, you also said:

"I have no qualms about alerting the proper authorities and having threads deleted. "

That is entirely up to you. I personally do not see why or what it is that you feel should be deleted here? But I will tell you that it was upon the "authorities" request that the prayer thing be brought up to Libs awhile back, rather than to leave it down in the Support threads.

So that is why and how we are here. Quite befitting of one of the purposes and freedoms of the Liberation Brew's Threads, don't you think?

As I had said:
"I believe it was suggested in the past that the prayer thread be brought up here to Lib's"

So the Prayer thread is in Lib's and I do not see any reason why we should leave or to be asked to leave by you or anyone else, or go over to a new thread you have created.

Sew

February 16, 2005
11:38 am
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Yowza!

Hey everybody. 🙂

Good thoughts, and good prayers. It's tough to mix them I see.

This is why I support the continuation of separation of church & state in the U.S., and probably why there's 2 'sides' of these boards. chuckle.

While it truly isn't a matter of laughter for those becoming emotionally invested here, I do hope only to say, that my hope here, and on the support threads, is really for folks not to take "OFFENSE" or "DEFENSE" but to make "SENSE".

It's learning and hearing and sharing. At AAC, we have the opportunity to see more than 2 sides of a coin hopefully. All is fair here, and there, so long as guidelines are maintained. And as a sidenote, I really don't think Ren'ai would mind a prayer/thought sandwich. We're all different! Let's try not to limit ourselves to those only 'like' us. Let's hear everybody rather than asking them to stuff it... that's what these boards are 'for'.

Peace. SC

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