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Open Minded Spiritual Thread ? Not Religion / Is it possible ? : horsefly
January 19, 2009
11:44 pm
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horsefly
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I have always had an extremely open mind about God. I have studied different org. religious...I have never got involved into. But I firmly believe in God.....nature proves it to me and evolution. I know someone made us? Apes or like us and ect...? But I have have too many espisodes in my own life to not believe there is a meaning to something. Just curious about anybodies thoughts? Sincerely, horsefly

January 20, 2009
12:10 am
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horsefly
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Did you know that ape's DNA is about 75
percent as human. go figure that up somewhere. I know I doubt I even get a response to that one. Why? HF

January 20, 2009
12:15 am
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horsefly
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I do not think there was a garden of eve. Anybody ? HF

January 20, 2009
12:21 am
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Horsefly, I just came here to check for another thread and here I find another way we are similar in our thinking. I also have studied many different viewpoints, shall I say? I am also open to whoever believes whichever path they felt drawn to or perhaps stayed with as I do feel it is an individual thing. In other words whatever works for each one. I just know I've felt some higher ones who must have helped me in my struggles as I never felt I could have done it all alone. At least I can't imagine from where I was that I could have.

January 20, 2009
12:38 am
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horsefly
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Tumbles, I guess I am desperate. I have to seek something like spiritual support. I am always in denial. But someone has to believe in a pray from a good god somewhere, for what ever God.

I am so even not believing I am asking for spiritual support here or there. But desperate people try things, Great chief pray for us all, I guess when you are crippled you can ask for anything Tumbles. Love You Much, horsefly

January 20, 2009
2:00 am
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Pegasus!

Can I help you in any way?

((((((((horsefly))))))))

January 20, 2009
6:34 am
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Horsefly, I was thinking of the many ways I have prayed when I was involved in whichever religion or group and I have to say I feel my prayers were answered whether through traditional Christian prayers or N. A. prayers to the Great Spirit or simply praying to Divine Ones without necessarily picturing any particular entity to speak to, just whomever heard me. And whether it was simply voicing things and being heard by a supportive Universe or whomever, I noticed results. I don't think we have to do it as any certain way is what I'm saying, at least the way I see it. I hope this helps in some way. I found a lot of help in N. A. studies and have been in touch with elders and read from their websites etc. Have been invited to pow wows I enjoyed very much and also still have some of their books as I kept my books from all my studies.

January 20, 2009
9:58 am
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((((Horsefly))))

I do believe in God, and I believe that our spirit is God's work, and is God. I look at it like this, God is Love, Love is God.

Which is why I say hold onto your Spirit, because that spirit I believe is God, and what will help you through everything, even when it seems like we can't go on, we can lean on our spirit, lean on that love you have in your heart, your spirit will hold you when you feel weak.

When I was growing up, we went to church, my parents and grandparents told me what to believe, but it wasn't until I was an adult that I truly believed without those questions, and knew what I believed.
I used to wonder about so many unanswered questions, and all, but then once I felt the Spirit in me, my questions didn't matter anymore, because I knew from what I felt, without a doubt that there is a God, a Higher Power that is there for us, which I can say is that Spirit in us.

That's when I decided not to be concerned with understanding, and then also believed what I always heard, "Lean not on your understanding but on God". That was a difficult one for me for a long time before my faith was strong and solid... so I guess what I'm saying is we don't have to question how, why, or when we became, we only have to have that tiny bit of faith in order for it to grow, and know that you have a strong spirit.

Not sure if any of this helps or not, but I know with all my heart you do have a strong spirit, and there are times that we do have questions, and that is when our faith grows.

I'm praying for you, thinking of you, and hope your feeling a better soon.

Healing and Peace

January 20, 2009
1:31 pm
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Horsefly,

Check out Religious Science:

Daily Affirmation
January 20, 2009
In this moment I embrace all life. I quiet myself, go within, and remember all that is important in my life. I accept all my blessings and know all is well.

Cary

January 20, 2009
4:56 pm
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Horsefly,

Some years ago this interchange occured on this site. I re-read it just now and thought that it might be appropriate to repost it here. I think that the quest to find the answers that you seek is probably inherent in and the price tag for the evolving neocortex in mankind.

Is Adam and Eve's ejection from the Garden of Eden an old metaphor for your quest to find your meaning in life?

------------------------------------

Cici
31-Jan-01

I think that there is pain, suffering, humans inflict cruel horrors on themselves and other...all this happens for a reason.
That reason is free will. God (or Elohim, as in Judaism - the original name as written in the Old Testament) created humans, or allowed them to create themselves?

The thing is that without suffering there would be no growth, no impetus to seek out a higher mind or find the divinity within ourselves.

In every sacred story or myth or even fairy tale, the knight has to go through many hardships in order to reach his goal, the lady in distress, the treasure, the spring of eternal life...if there aren't any obstacles, the goal ceases to exist.

Ya know, suffering makes the soul. Without it, you are nothing but a breathing bag of flesh.

Tez
31-Jan-01

Cici.
Now ya got me going. 🙂

You said, "Ya know, suffering makes the soul..." Does suffering make the soul of a cockroach or a bird or a baby zebra torn apart by a hungry lioness wanting to feed her cubs?

You said, "God (or Elohim, as in Judaism - the original name as written in the Old Testament) created humans, or allowed them to create themselves?"

Do you mean as Hitler, Edi Amin, Stalin, Pol Pot et.al. created themselves? Such a god, if he exists as such, is an ..... For all these monsters were as much victims as persecutors. They were in ignorance of their own selves and what drove them to perpetrate the horrors that the did. They thought that they were reacting to outside forces, when in fact they were doing battle with infant, childhood, adolescent and inherited (archetypal)'ghosts'in disguise.

What sort of a god would engineer a world upon which survival of the predator is dependent upon the predated upon.

If that God is an unconditional loving God, then we are also that God in ignorance. If we are not that God but a separate creation, then that God is not loving at all.

As for free will, free will in ignorance is not freedom at all. Freedom demands that we be well informed and educated. That is a fundamental educational tenet of our so called democratic societies. In a predator/predated upon world, a god who gives free will without absolute knowledge of that creation, is a cruel perpetrator of a dreadful hoax. Unless of course, the whole of creation is that god. Then all is an illusion a game and that God is doing nothing more than exploring Itself and its infinite number of dimensions; this world being but one of possibly many.

Bash those statements around until the cows come home and I don't think that you will be able to logically flaw it. We in Christian countries have inherited the brainwashing resulting the long held old Judaic concept of the sacrifical lamb making retribution for our 'sins' to a harsh and demanding patriachal God. It's the sustenance of much suffering and mental illness.

Now I will dismount from my high horse and make way for the bible thumpers. 🙂

eve
31-Jan-01

free will is a bugger, isn't it? I guess that cici didn't mean to throw "suffer and you will therefore automatically become a better person" at you. It's like positive thinking . It can be very usefull and wise to use our suffering as a powerfol tool of finding our way in life. But it's not suffering that is of value, but the useful things that might come from it. positive thinking can be really helpful, but when you're in the dregs and somebody else tells you to go and think positive about all the good that might come out of the problem he might not always be welcome 🙂
But what I really wanted to say is that i think that spirits of the dead seem to me like an echo of the life of those people. I don't really believe that there is something like a life after death as an entity whith awareness. But I think that those spirit contacts are real in the same way that waves on a lake are real, or echoes. They are carried in water or air - independent of what caused them and yet strongly linked to it.

Tez
1-Feb-01

Eve.
You said, 'I guess that cici didn't mean to throw "suffer and you will therefore automatically become a better person" at you.'

Oh, I unequivocally agree with Cici on this point that suffering has value. Unfortunately for me, I only seem to learn about myself through pain. The only thing that pleasure teaches me about myself is that I want more of it. 🙂 It's where the value lies that I challenge, not Cici personally. I like her a lot.

It's the Christian idea that suffering is good because we can earn brownie points with God by 'offering up our suffering' to that God to barter for His grace and good will, that I challenge. It's the old idea that the Christian church had in selling plenary indulgences, in projecting an image of a merchant God who carries out transactions using the coinage of prayer, worship and a willingness to suffer by 'picking up your cross'. I have far more pragmatic reasons for placing value on pain and suffering than 'building my soul'.

Having read much of what Cici has written over the years, I doubt that she intended to push the Christian 'party line' at all. I just couldn't resist my desire to have a say about that topic. It was one of the things with which the 'church' conned my father all his life. Church propaganda caused much havoc in his marriage to my mother. It was the 'orange and the green' re-enacted every day just about. My mother was protestant and my father Irish catholic. I have little time for either brand of Christianity, or Christian doctrine in general. I only use a capital 'C' for the word Christian, out of deference to literary protocol.

About contacting the spirits of the dead, I just don't know. I've read about some compelling circumstantial evidence to justify a case for it's validity. On the other hand I've also read of many charlatans who have ripped people off in this way. I lean towards the possibility rather than the probability. 🙂

Cici
2-Feb-01

Isn't it funny that whenever we get into it, we really get into some meaty philosophical discussions? Not funny...fascinating. I always learn something knew when we talk, Tez...
I'd have to say, in response to the totality of your post, that if there is a God (and I believe that there is, not necessarily an all-benevolent entity, but a force), it doesn't make sense to put human value judgements on the acts of God. That harkens back to rampant anthropomorphizing from the Greek and Roman days of worshipping human and very fallible gods.

If there is a God, some supreme being whose cognitions should be far beyond our comprehension (since our lives are a blip on the radar screen, in cosmic time), that God would not think like us at all. That God would not view right, wrong, evil, good, in any way remotely close to how we view it.

So, you ask "What sort of a god would engineer a world upon which survival of the predator is dependent upon the predated upon"?

During discussions with my own father when he was more cognizant, he made an interesting point. Both he and my Mom have suffered a lot in their lives. My Dad has no friends left alive, his body is broken from 3 wars, my Mom saw some terrible things when she was a child growing up during the wars of Vietnam. They both laugh at my idealism, my passionate love of philosophy.

Anyways, I digress. They always remind me of the distance from theory to practice, the sad harshness of the real world where we may want to help everyone but we simply can't. We can't forget that we are essentially animals. For all our higher cognitive functions, our self-awareness, we are almost like domesticated dogs.

Domesticated dogs were created by humans, not from wolves but another canine ancestor, a close off-shoot (according to new research). Anyways, they still retain bits of DNA from their wild ancestors, but those bits are fragmented, incomplete because of breeding (like the human breeding of "races"). They are left with fragmentary bits of instinct, these fragmentary bits cause them to have half-remembered instinctual behaviors that they don't know what to do with, that confuse them.

My dogs are a great example. blow a whistle, ring a bell, play howling wolves on tape - the frequency stimulates them to howl. But they get agitated, distressed, punctuating those howls with pitiful whines, frantic scrambling, aimless movement. They have the instinct, but no memory of why.

I think humans are very much like this. We retain bits and pieces of instinctual memory, but these instincts have no place in modern, urban society - so we are left with panicky neruoses instead. What a wonderous trade-off.

This is where violence comes in. Nature itself is violent, filled with death and new life. It is our social structure and the environment that we ourselves have created that forces our violent instincts to develop into twisted, mutated forms of mental illness.

Tez
2-Feb-01

Cici.
You said,"...it doesn't make sense to put human value judgements on the acts of God. " I agree entirely. Yet this is exactly what Christianity does. They have a God of wrath, who loves, cares, plays games with humans(Job) etc, etc - all human values.

And, "That God would not view right, wrong, evil, good, in any way remotely close to how we view it." Once again, I agree. Therefore, how could we be judged in an afterlife except by our own selves - maybe.(To thine own self be true.) Thus the concept of 'sin' and 'afterlife punishment' is laughable except in a Shakespearean sense.

And,"...I think humans are very much like this. We retain bits and pieces of instinctual memory, but these instincts have no place in modern, urban society - so we are left with panicky neruoses instead. What a wonderous trade-off." This "instinctual memory" of which you speak, lies, I believe, in the amygdala - the source of our triggers for our fear arousal system. The problems come from our inappropriate pairings of conditioned stimuli with these inherited animal triggers (UCS)- especially those pairings formed in infancy and childhood. (I'm no Skinnerian) The reason I often hark back to infancy and childhood is because this is when we were both most impressionable and most vulnerable - we did not have the protection of developed cognitions. - "Show me the boy and I will give you the man."

And, "This is where violence comes in. Nature itself is violent, filled with death and new life. It is our social structure and the environment that we ourselves have created that forces our violent instincts to develop into twisted, mutated forms of mental illness." True - but why would a Godhead of some kind, albeit Nature itself, create such a needy environment wherein violence is a necessity of life? Surely not the act of an unconditionally loving, antrophomorphic God! Thus, if God is really all knowing, all loving and all powerful as the Christians claim, then we are left with the only rational conclusion that we cannot be harmed in any way by this violence. In fact from this concept of God, everything that happens can only be in our best interests NO MATTER WHAT! The only way that can be is if we are God, without knowing it.

So... either the Christian concept of God is either false or we are God, as Christ implied and as has been proclaimed by many mystics since. Which way it is - I do not know. I'm agnostic. 🙂 But my agnosticism frees me to be open minded, yet skeptical of the tub thumpers who proclaim that hell awaits everyone who rejects their brand of 'faith'.

You are one bright lady, Cici.

Molly
7-Feb-01

I second that.

Cici
8-Feb-01

Tez,
I'm taking a class called "Religion in Film" this semester. very interesting (it would be better if the professor wasn't so narcisisstic, but what university professor of film ISN'T, ha ha ha). BTW, thanks for the compliment, I RECIPROCATE!!!

Anyways, we watched the movie "Thunderheart" last night. Val Kilmer, I think it's from 1997 or 1996. The director, Michael Apted, is best known for his documentaries. "Incident at Oglala" is the background to this movie. It was interesting to see the Native American religion inter-woven into the plot, and the controversial use of peyote as a holy sacrament (controversial, strangely enough, to the U.S. government alone....ergh.)

I mention this because...I think you'd like the movie, ha ha!

Anyways, did you ever see another religiously-themed movie, "What Dreams May Come"? It may be slightly smarmy and saccharine, but I really liked the interplay between religions in the movie. It's almost entirely based in one man's afterlife, but an interesting theme theyupheld was that hell was really the creation of one's mind...the guilt and pain that they feel weighs down the soul and builds its own private hell. Cheery, eh?

One more thing (I'm playing devils' advocate, as we've already established our like-mindedness in this subject)...you said, "why would a Godhead of some kind, albeit Nature itself, create such a needy environment wherein violence is a necessity of life? Surely not the act of an unconditionally loving, antrophomorphic God!" I think Christians may argue that this is why God gave us free will. There is temptation, the lure of evil, and the choice of arduous, boring and plodding goodness. Of course, goodness has to suck. I'm talking about the church's concept of goodness, which somehow doesn't seem to include compassion, understanding or open-mindedness, nor does it include the concept of different worldviews.

Funny enough, I recently read an article about an Isreali archeologist turning the Christian and jewish religious organization on its ears. Apparently, although there is historical basis for some of the bible's events and geography, most of it was just purely made-up. Why is it that every other religion in the world has learned to accept that the sacred story is just that, a STORY, a myth, but Christianity staunchly supports the ludicrous idea that its sacred story is actually historically true?

I get really irritated with fundamentalist Christians because of this. No logical argument will make a dent. My sister's in-laws firmly believe that the earth is 9,000 years old and that humans descended from Adam and Eve. They have videos proving their point, but won't even allow their children to receive educaiton about evolution....UG.

Tez
9-Feb-01

Cici.
Peyote... interesting stuff. If a Native American Indian church was local to me in Australia, I would be sorely tempted to undergo some of their 'flying' experiences.

It seems to me that, in being human, our greatest difficulty is to break through this dammed illusion that we are separate and physical entities; the delusion that there exists an actual duality of self and other than self. Perhaps peyote administered in the 'right circumstances' might help break through that barrier of ignorance.

You asked, "did you ever see another religiously-themed movie, 'What Dreams May Come'?" Yes, I did. It thought that, within the severe limitations of both our ignorance and the medium, it probably came as close to what I suspect happens to us when we die as is possible. At the time, I thought that whoever wrote the script certainly did their homework.

You said, "I think Christians may argue that this is why God gave us free will. There is temptation, the lure of evil, and the choice of arduous, boring and plodding goodness. "

I'm sure you are right - they probably would. The problem that I have with this reasoning is that 'free will' without absolute knowledge is not really 'free' at all.

If I, as an engineer, designed and manufactured a machine with artificial intelligence, I would be responsible for any damage resulting from actions perpetrated by that machine despite any claims that I might make about my having given that machine 'free will'. In a court of law, my argument that the machine, in choosing not to do the 'right thing', must bear the responsibility for its own actions, is laughable.

Christians claim that, since the engineer is not an all knowing God, my engineer/machine analogy does not apply. I reply, that since their Christian God had absolute fore knowledge of the behavior of his creation, then He must take absolute responsibility for the behavior of that creation - including all evils. Whereas my poor fallible engineer would have only diminished responsibility for his 'free will' machine. Any God that transferred blame for 'wrongdoing' would hardly be just or loving. (One Christian God defining attribute down the shute) For such a god, 'free will' would be a cop out too.

Equally... we, in relation to God, would be infinitely more ignorant than the machine's ignorance would be in relationship to the intelligence of the engineer. Thus I maintain that my analogy more than holds water.

I agree with you about logical argument 'not making a dent'. This is why I claim that the Imperial Roman based Christianity of today and logic are incompatible.

Now, I'll duck for cover as the flak flies. 🙂

January 20, 2009
5:48 pm
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Hello horsefly

especially since you started this thread and invited discussion!

Hello Friends,

I genuinely ask for open-mindedness, from one and from all.

This is only my opinion and like _ssholes everybody has one, and this statement is not meant ever to offend anyone.

I think spirituality transcends religion. I think religion tends to or can lead to (since it is largely man made), division whereas spirituality is for one and all.

I have listened for many years to a Native Elder ... a Grandfather, and Great Grandfather call what our concept of Creator is or can be named as The Great Mystery.

I do also believe that Creator does not punish us ever ... we punish ourselves. I do believe that sh_t happens for our growth and is the fertilizer of awareness, change and growth.

There really is a reason for everything and life is what you make it.

My Creator has shown me

The Seven Grandfather Teachings.

Would any of you invite/want me to share them with you??

I also believe that energy never dies ...

and is therefore, according to physics,

transformed into an as yet unrealized energy force.

We are all of us spirit experiencing a human journey.

Wow this was Great! Thanks a Lot horsefly

littlespirit

January 20, 2009
6:35 pm
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horsefly, I'm an athiest, if that helps.

January 21, 2009
1:15 am
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Thank All of You so much for your thoughts ,

I do believe in God, But it is my God that I have had all of my life. It is apart of me. My positive force and spiritual connection , I see in nature and every living person and plant, animal is evolving , so things are the way they are by natural force.

I also believe that people mess it up. Turning against each other about religion and destroying ourselves and the whole earth. This is man made . But something had to create the perfect flower, tree, river, sunset...ect or ape. I believe in a very powerful something. Although I am not so called in a label of a religion......I believe in a supreme being.

I like yo hear everyone thoughts, because I know any kind of God or thoughts has to be on the lib side
Thank you Caraway, but I have studied religion through my twenties and I have my simple God that has somehow been there for me time after time. I am neither a atheist nor agnostic. I believe in something that created us. I do not believe in heaven or hell.......nor reincarnation. I am not involved in any organization at all cost. I have considered non denominational church just for the positive and upbeat of it all.

Thank You Tez for your input. You are very wise and I appreciate you.

Thank You TW, Your understanding means so much to me.

Red, I love you

Guest, Thank You, You are smart and I appreciate you trying to understand me.

Healing and Peace, You are very open to my thinking and spiritual side..........a gift for me you are.

I am somehow suppose to move my God or prayers or spiritual stuff to Lib side so I thought it was worth the effort. I know many people have it rougher than myself. But I am tire of the struggle to survive and my endurance is running out. I have much to be grateful for . But I still need spiritual support...for my spirit , heart and soul. So That is why I am here. So I can talk about God on here without committing a crime on the support side. I know I had plenty of prayers and stuff that got me this far.....but even talking about it helps me.

I have noticed most don't stay around with these post. But I am discouraged with y health and I thought I would try atleast to talk about it , before I give up. To me are bodies have mind , spirit, soul and body illness. I have been sick with it all. I had made great strides , until I somehow noticed a bad change in my survival of thinking. I have already thought about a lobotomy .....nut I don't think I can get one. Thank each one of you for discussing anything with me. Horsefly

January 21, 2009
1:23 am
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Little Spirit, I almost forgot you, sorry. We must think alot alike. That is comforting to me and I thank you very much, horsefly

January 21, 2009
1:40 am
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I've read that there were 5 Gardens of Eden.

(((horsefly)))

January 21, 2009
1:40 am
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Littlespirit

On the 20-Jan-09 you wrote:

"My Creator has shown me

The Seven Grandfather Teachings.

Would any of you invite/want me to share them with you??"

I, for one, would like you to share The Seven Grandfather Teachings with us. Would you please do so?

January 21, 2009
1:43 am
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horsefly

On the 21-Jan-09 you wrote:

"Thank You Tez for your input. You are very wise and I appreciate you."

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate you and this interesting thread.

January 21, 2009
11:11 am
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(((Horsefly)))

There was a point after my accident and injuries, that I felt like giving up, and it was so hard to keep fighting, and hold onto my spirit and faith because I didn't understand how or why but I did hold on, and it was my spirit, God that helped me get through it all. Which I believe is the same in all of us, we share the same spirit, and we all can call on it it at any time to help us, and hold us up.

See the beauty in all, and feel that love that you know in your heart. I do know how difficult it all can be when you don't feel well, I asked the same questions as you while in and out of the hospital for those two years after the accident. If you feel comfortable with it, tell one of your Doctor's how you feel emotionally, and spiritually, you may notice a differance once you share this side of you. There are a lot of Doctors that feel the same as you do, and this helps them be open with you while treating you. I found that you have to work as a team while not feeling well with the Doctors, and the better they know you the more it helps you both find the answers medically speaking. You will know those that you can talk to about it, trust your spirit, trust your heart. There are some you will know right away that they are not the ones to talk to, but you will also know just as well those you can talk to about whatever is on your mind, and in your heart.

If I could, I would do and say the same as what one of my Medical Doctors said to me... when I was at my weakest point... by gently holding your hand, and say "Look into my eyes", and say, softly and firmly "Don't lose your spirit... hold onto your spirit, don't give up". The only thing we can lose and give up on is all the questions, because the answers don't matter, just hold on to your amazing spirit ((Painted Horse )). You are a gift, and never forget that!

Love to you (((HF - Painted Horse)))

Healing and Peace

January 21, 2009
4:12 pm
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Hi Horsefly,

Please check out Greg Laurie's website. I think it will help answer some of the questions you are looking to answer.

http://www.harvest.org/

TB

January 21, 2009
9:39 pm
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Littlespirit.

I would appreciate the 7 Grandfather Teachings if you please.

Native spirituality and all tribal and/or primitve belief systems hold, for me, the most realistic view about our existence and connection to our planet and the invisible world.

It would be nice to get input from someone who is from a tribal culture and has direct experience with oral tradition.

Very refreshing!:0)

January 21, 2009
10:49 pm
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Oh Wow!!

Thank you so much for reinforcing that The Seven Grandfather Teachings may be something that enriches our thread.

I am only part aboriginal yet I feel/sense it is the best part of me.

I need to be sure that I get the most accurate and honest words portraying what I have been taught and will if you want me to share them with you tomorrow night regarding the Seven Grandfather Teachngs that I can

This feels like a responsibility and calls on my ability to respond.

littlespirit

January 22, 2009
8:16 pm
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horsefly
this is off....be on this forum for years....not just since last year..we can email each other Now? that Nappy is long gone....
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Thank You Everyone for your sincere input, Actually , I would love to for you Little Spirit to share the Seven Grandfather Teachings with us, When you are able,

I will also look up the website you have mentioned caraway. Plus, the website site that you mentioned Terriberry.

I guess my closest belief to a God is native spirituality. I feel close to the earth and sunrise and stuff like that. Cherokee does run in my mother's blood. I do think some kinda spiritual belief enhances are growth and quality of life. Thank You all so much, Paint horsefly

January 23, 2009
1:21 am
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_anonymous
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I am religious. Belong to an organized religion. It has provided me and my children with a moral compass. Where I go to worship feels like a sanctuary. I love the part where I can give my thanks for all that I have and dont worry about what I dont have.

January 24, 2009
12:41 am
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red blonde
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((((Pegasus aka Paint horsefly))))

I don't have any 'set' religion nor religious beliefs or whatever...I do believe in many things whether they are spiritual in nature or not.

All I know is that there is more in this universe than what we were taught...either by our parents, schools, religious leaders, or by religious teachings.

You have done the impossible, Peg! And if you want to talk to me about what or how you felt or what made you feel the way you do or did..I am definitely willing to listen ...and talk about it with you!

(((((PEGASUS)))))

Red!

January 25, 2009
2:17 pm
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bblue
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"I think spirituality transcends religion. I think religion tends to or can lead to (since it is largely man made), division whereas spirituality is for one and all."

Littlespirit I could not have said it better - this is what I believe. I have come from a family where organized religon has nothing but caused division and pain.

If there is a god (and I do believe in the term higher power) he accepts all that truly believe (whatever the twist of their religon). And as man we judge our fellow man by religon (race and creed) but we should not. To be judged by our deeds to our fellow man and not by our difference of interpretation and belief and accept all mankind as equal is my goal. But our society had definately ingrained some things into each of us that is not correct, just, or spiritual.

We are but imperfect

BBlue

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