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OK - as a tempoary atheist/agnostic.....
March 14, 2009
12:45 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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Tez,

I have a friend that I met through work and he actually worked for one of the Doctors that took care of me for those couple years while I was in and out of the hospital years ago, so I had met him a long time ago but didn't really get to know him until I started working for the same hospital. He's from Pakistan and he was so angry and showed so much anger when he first came to the US which is when I first met him. I felt really bad for him because I knew there was a reason behind the anger..... in time he released his feelings, fear, and anger, and he's so sweet and thankful for the life he has now, he doesn't hide where he is from or why he left. But I do understand that some people from other country's are angry and have a lot to deal with from living in a country in which there was no freedom. I don't blame them for feeling angry, hurt or any other type of feelings, but there's always room for healing, and moving on... thanks for explaining where Guest is from it helps me understand a little bit more why so much anger is expressed.

Healing and Peace

March 14, 2009
12:49 pm
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Healing

>> And why would I have to convert to any religion at all, when I don't get involved at all in any organized churches or religion's even where I live?

Because God has told you too, right? Dont you obey God?

You said you believe in Allah, the God of Muslims. Allah said everyone should convert to Islam. Its in the Quran. Are you going to disobey Allah?

Thankfully I dont have to obey anyone since I'm an athiest.

>> assumption of ALL Christians are out to get you, all Christians are false and ready to steal your rights away.

Ohh, no, not at all. I never said that. We're having a friendly debate here about God. You claimed you and Muslims worship the same God. Thats what we're talking about.

March 14, 2009
12:56 pm
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Guest,

God did not tell me too... again your assuming... how do you know what God has told me????

March 14, 2009
1:14 pm
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H&P

THe important thing is that he got a reaction from you. :~)

March 14, 2009
1:32 pm
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Bevdee hates me because I dont believe in her beliefs of reincarnation.

Healing

>> God did not tell me too

How do you decide or know whether God has told you something or not?

March 14, 2009
1:45 pm
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Guest,

Respectfully, and Kindly, your questions are those that if I gave you an answer you wouldn't understand at all. As you have clearly stated you are an atheist so you truly would have no way of knowing or understanding my answers to your questions.

So I'm asking you to give me the same respect I have given to you, I don't question how you know there is no God, and I would expect the same respect back. I've explianed to you why and how I know there is a God as far as I'm concerned, and if you choose not to believe it, then that is up to you, not me.

I truly don't care of you believe me or not, it doesn't effect my relationship with God, and doesn't effect my everyday life if some doesn't believe me or not..So maybe instead of asking me all these in my eyes questions that you wouldn't and can't understand maybe you can find something you do believe in and learn as much as you can about that, something that interest you not something that you don't believe in to begin with and won't change the way you see things.. I don't know I would just try to find an interest that you really enjoy other then harrassing those that don't believe the same way as you do or don't.

Peace to you Guest, Healing and peace

March 14, 2009
1:48 pm
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Bevdee,

You noticed, lol... I have tried for the past six months not to allow him to get such a reaction but he's good at what he attempts to accumplishment, and I truly believe he must get some sort of high out of this, but I'm putting a sign out, this station is closed, he can find someone else to fill that empty tank for now on... Peace to you, H/P

March 14, 2009
2:03 pm
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Healing

Well there you go, typical answer "dont bug me".

Healing, it was YOU who started this debate.

Scroll right up on this thread and see your post dated 9-Mar-09.

Enjoy your irrational beliefs that science cannot explain and logic cannot support.

Hatred from other people here is nothing new. They too have been asked the same questions and they get angry when they cant find any good answers to the questions I raise.

March 14, 2009
2:11 pm
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STATION CLOSED, Sorry for any inconvenience but this codi just isn't into filling any tanks! Is open to friendly conversations and support.

March 14, 2009
2:24 pm
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Guest_guest,

First of all, there is no way I can "hate" everyone that doesn't agree with my views. There just isn't enough time in my day to channel all my energy toward fear and anger and hate toward everyone that disagrees with me.

"Bevdee hates me because I dont believe in her beliefs of reincarnation" I don't know how to make the eye rolling icon, If I did it would be here ____ .

Do you assume that I, or others do something because it is what you do? I was racist and nasty only after the first time I disagreed with you on the Dalai Lama thread. Not the other way around.

From this thread - guest_guest
10-Mar-09

"Look in some other threads. Tez has been a strong opposer of Christianity and yes, he has put it down many times. But if I hadnt said that, he'd have said in return "you're welcome". He's trying to look nice while making me look bad"

"Because God has told you too, right? " She didn't say this-

These kind of statements are what I meant when I said you make assumptions. You leap far ahead in your imagination, guess_guess what a person will answer, then respond according to your assumption. And you flood and spam the discussion with this kind of extrapolation, often attributing motives and statements to someone that merely asked you a question.

You have shared with me before about feeling so anxious socially. When I encounter this type of communication style IN PERSON, socially, I have to decide whether or not the person is going to listen to me and how important establishing open lines of communication with this person will be. I have to decide whether it will be worth the mammoth effort it will take. And really, why do I want to be heard by such a person? Honestly, if I encounter someone with this fearful communication style you have shown on AAC? Not hearing what I say, projecting and accusing, angry at opinions that don't mirror their own, I avoid them. I don't hate that person, I feel compassion and sympathy for them, but I don't see any reason to try to have any productive conversation with someone who will not only not hear what I have to say, but misrepresent what I do say. I'm not everyone, and I don't know everything, but this may give you a peek into social situations, including online, and the part you could be playing in them.

March 14, 2009
2:27 pm
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lol, Healing you put up your booth yourself on 9th March and now you're closing it. Alright.

Bevdee, I dont know what you just said. Its all bold.

March 14, 2009
2:47 pm
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Guest_guest,

Mea Culpa, grievous error. Totally obscures communication, I spose. Or do you have trouble reading straight talking redneck English?

Since, I am a compassionate, giving person, I'll give you one more stroke of attention, and one more hit for the count.

***************************
guest_guest

First of all, there is no way I can "hate" everyone that doesn't agree with my views. There just isn't enough time in my day to channel all my energy toward fear and anger and hate.

"Bevdee hates me because I dont believe in her beliefs of reincarnation" I don't know how to make the eye rolling icon, If I did it would be here ____ .

Do you assume that I, or others do something because it is what you do? I was racist and nasty only after the first time I disagreed with you on the Dalai Lama thread. Not the other way around.

From this thread - guest_guest
10-Mar-09

"Look in some other threads. Tez has been a strong opposer of Christianity and yes, he has put it down many times. But if I hadnt said that, he'd have said in return "you're welcome". He's trying to look nice while making me look bad"

"Because God has told you too, right?" She didn't say this-

These kind of statements are what I meant when I said you make assumptions. You leap far ahead in your imagination, guess_guess what a person will answer, then respond according to your assumption. And you flood and spam the discussion with this kind of extrapolation, often attributing motives and statements to someone that merely asked you a question.

You have shared with me before about feeling so anxious socially. When I encounter this type of communication style IN PERSON, I have to decide whether or not the person is going to listen to me and how important establishing open lines of communication with this person will be. I have to decide whether it will be worth the effort. Honestly, if I encounter someone with this fearful communication style you have shown on AAC? Not hearing what I say, projecting and accusing, I avoid them. I don't hate that person, I feel compassion and sympathy for them, but I don't see any reason to try to have any productive conversation with someone who will not only not hear what I have to say, but misrepresent what I do say.

March 14, 2009
4:37 pm
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Bevdee, is this about anything I have said to you in this debate or in the past? If not, I'd prefer you mind your own business.

March 14, 2009
5:39 pm
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Classic.

March 14, 2009
5:40 pm
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Yea

March 14, 2009
6:58 pm
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Guest,

I really want try to explain something to you, you see when you start making assumptions it is like your not playing fair... like children playing in a sand box, we all want to join in a conversation or express what we feel or believe, but we all want to do it fairly.

When I posted to Tez, your feelings got hurt because you don't like Tez because he seems to have more friends sometimes in your eyes then you. I told you that I didn't care what he did in the past, more less the past is the past, and it doesn't matter what he said in the past to me.

So I asked you not to talk bad about him to me, but you did anyway throwing a toy directly at him by addressing me with some of his past post, even after I told you that it didn't matter to me. This kind of ruins it for everyone that wants to play in the sand box, you know what I'm trying to say, that right there is when this conversation then took on a whole new game for you.

You then took on the role being rude and nasty to others and to me. By making assumptions and flinging stupid little pebbles at all of us, so I had a choice to leave the sandbox and let you have fun by yourself. And Bevdee tried to point this out to you in a respectful way, even showing compassion by explaining what she saw to you, and you were the one that stormed off stumping the ground by saying don't bug me, mind your own business... I never said don't bug me to you, but yet you said I did, I said station closed because I was tired of the assumptions... and the conversation truly wasn't going anywhere I just happen to feel that the shoval I was using in the sand box builds a better castle and you think yours does so who is right and who is wrong....there's no right or wrong, only what one believes and what one doesn't.

Healing and peace

March 14, 2009
7:15 pm
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Healing, I dont care about how many "friends" I got here. I thought you said making assumptions is a bad thing. Isnt that an assumption on your part? Gotcha.

You asked me something in your post on 9th March. That was what the debate was about, it was about God and religion. Now you've asked to not debate it anymore and I'm fine with it. We're done for now for this instance.

[email protected] "stupid little pebbles"

March 14, 2009
7:28 pm
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Oh ok and what did you get, nothing what you just stated made no sense, gotcha ok if you say so.. lol

March 15, 2009
1:08 am
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guest_guest

On the 14-Mar-09 you wrote:

"Healing, I dont care about how many "friends" I got here."

So you love pushing everyones' buttons. Let us all see how well you like yours pushed! You won't answer my question.

Why won't you disclose your Pakistani connection???

Why did you run for cover to the US. Why haven't you the guts to divulge the origin of your terrorist tactics in trying to upset everyone? Are you a Jihadic worrior in disguise trying to cover your activities with this phoney atheistic drivel. I'm a fair dinkum atheist. You are just a renegade from Allah, Mohammed etc. But I doubt your authenticity even as a genuine atheist. I think you are a Pakistani terrorist acting out the part of a conversational terrorist who hates Christians. The CIA needs to look closely at you and your activities.

Now let's discuss something near to your 'bone' for a change!!!

Have you the guts? I doubt it. You'd rather prey on defenseless women with your 'bait and switch' bullshit to get your jollies - your style to the core!!

Get a life and leave these nice people here alone!

March 15, 2009
6:42 am
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All Here is an interesting point of view on the limits of science and the intellect as a tool for knowing and perceiving what is the nature of ultimate reality.

March 15, 2009
9:24 am
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Whatever my personal details are, they're not important in this discussion no matter how many times you bring them up in the shape of personal attacks. You think its funny eh? Yea they are. I was laughing yesterday.

Science never claims that it knows everything or that it knows the "ultimate reality".

It does know that reincarnation is as real as Muhammed flying on a winged horse to Heaven.

Thats the question I had asked you and everyone else on that thread: how do you know that after death reincarnation is more real and likely to happen than a Muslim dying and meeting Allah and his messenger?

No, you dont know. The correct answer to that question is: both are unlikely and impossible. But for you since you claim science has to be ignored, the answer should be: both are equally likely. But no, you dont have the guts to say that or the intelligence to answer that question.

March 15, 2009
9:51 am
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Oh and if you start using names like Dick Sutphen (obvious money maker, his website says "He offers hundreds of mind-programming CDs"), or Charles Tart or Helen Wambach, then you're listening to SOME psychologists or philosophers or quack scientists, but you're ignoring what the vast majority of scientists say.

Its like Muslims quoting Dr. Maurice Buccaile or Dr. Keith Moore for telling everyone else that Quran has scientific statements when it does not. They ignore what other scientists say about the Quran, just like you do. Nah, you dont even read my posts because they make you angry so I'd be lucky if you did.

There are scientists who believe in God too. Its no surprise to find some psychologists believing in reincarnation. Plus, a psychologist is not a scientist so they're out of their field if they're trying to prove reincarnation. Charles Tart is a psychologist and everyone else you quote is one too. Having a PhD means nothing. Anyone can enroll in college and do the homeworks and get a PhD.

No response to the Wikipedia stuff I quoted on 9-Mar-09 on the reincarnation thread eh? Here, I'll repeat some of that because you do quote Charles Tart and Helen Wambach so surely, I can quote Spanos and other people:

- "Spanos' research leads him to the conclusion that past lives are not memories, but actually social constructions"

- "The sources of the memories explained as a result of past lives are most likely narratives created by the subconscious mind using imagination, forgotten information and suggestions from the therapist"

And once again you're starting to show off your nasty side more and more, well guess what? I wont jump in the mud ring with you this time even though its enjoyable because I want Site Coordinator to see who starts it first. Yea, now you'll stop, there ya go. Thats what you are in reality. Look at you. Its just sad.

March 15, 2009
10:57 am
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Hey Healing and Peace

I don't go for the no-holds-barred, free-for-all debate style that guest_guest seems to like to bring to the discussions. Do you only want to have your opinions echoed, or argue when they're not? Do you enjoy having the same nonsensical arguments over and over and over? I don't. I have learned a lot by these discussions, but I tend to skim when it gets nasty, because with some posters, it's re-runs, and because I've seen enough of it in the last 3+ years. I see new members of the community, trying to communicate in an open honest manner, then I watch them as they begin to comprehend that there can't be any of that with some members.

At first, reading that style helped me. I got angry, sometimes I responded, some times I didn't, but I had to ask myself why. Who does this person's style remind me of? Myself? Someone in my past? Who am I trying to make my point to? When I got quiet, and stopped arguing, the answers came to me. One of them is that no matter where I go, there I am. I mean that no matter where I go, what views I hold, I'm going to get heckled in one way or another.

I get heckled at work because I talk hickier than they do in the metroplex. I don't try to hide that. Sometimes I ham that up, just cause I can. From that, they make assumptions - that I am not as intelligent or well read as they are, etc. I get heckled because I don't contribute to the same charities that my coworkers do. I get the disdainful shocked stares when I don't agree with people at work when they say, "so and so needs your prayers" or some such. In my opinion they should not bring that to me, unless they are sure of my affiliation, but - they do.

But we are in kind of a name-calling society these days, aren't we? Sinner, narcissist, racist, psycho, scum .... I think it's the stress of living in this uncertain world, conditioning, and it's easier to call names to thrust someone away than to hear what they are saying. I sure don't feel as cocky or secure as I did 9 years ago. There are discussions, there is debate, and there are brawls. I prefer the first two, because my opinions are valid and I deserve respect. When I withdraw from someone that is disrespecting me, I respect myself even more.

Oh I have a confession - I googled. I googled civil debate.

http://media.www.smudailycampu.....2005/04/07
/News/Is.Civil.Debate.In.Class.Possible-2276124.shtml

"Is Civil Debate possible?

Some students may not speak their opinions in the classroom due to the fear of verbal or social repercussions from their classmates or even professors. To allow students and faculty to talk about this controversial issue, the Center for Teaching Excellence sponsored a Town Hall discussion Wednesday afternoon that highlighted political, social and religious discourse in the classroom and how these topics lend themselves to constraint or incivility amongst the participants.
The discussion began with a short clip from CNN’s Crossfire, in which Daily Show host Jon Stewart confronted hosts Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson about the lack of serious content in news programming. The debate, which quickly turned into an argument, set the mood for the topic of conversation.
Political Science Professor Dennis Simon, one of the leaders of the discussion, cited other shows that follow this confrontational format, including Hardball and The O’Reilly Factor. “This is telling us what political debate looks like,” he said. “It teaches us that the best sound bite wins.”
According to Simon, these shows serve as models of confrontational debate that are socialized into the public. “Increasingly, discourse is being uncivil and tending to elevate political disagreements to personal disputes,” he said. This problem can follow students into the classroom and keep them from feeling free to express their own opinions due to fear of unpleasant feedback from their peers.,/b>
Vanessa Beasley, a corporate communications and public affairs professor as well as a leader of the discussion, sees a problem with this. “The current model says there’s confrontation or there’s love—those are the only two things,” she said.
Beasley proposed an alternate debate model that offers an understanding of different perspectives as its goal rather than using social approval as a form of persuasion. Her model includes manners, taking turns, making eye contact and not interrupting when another person is speaking. This can reduce the feeling of threat or discomfort that someone holding an opposing view might experience when expressing it.
“[It] goes back to the very old concept of civility,” she said. “Reasonable, compassionate, smart people can have different beliefs and they’re not bad people.”
Beasley then raised the issue of the responsibility of faculty and students to promote civil discourse in the classroom. According to Beasley, part of this responsibility includes encouraging minority views and presenting a respectful manner to others’ opinions.
Many student participants in the audience revealed that they did not feel comfortable voicing minority opinions in the classroom due to the disrespectful attitudes of others. Several students proclaimed their liberal views but concurred that they had learned how to be quiet to avoid confrontation.
Students also discussed the intermingling of religious and political values in today’s society. Several students agreed that they feel more tolerant of religious views because of the variety of religions that are practiced by the public. According to those discussing the issue, the existence of only two viable political parties divides people in a stricter sense and leads to conflict when people see the party instead of the issues.
Participating students also agreed that they were afraid to voice opinions that differed from those of the professor because they didn’t want their grades to suffer. Maria Dixon, a corporate communications and public affairs professor leading the discussion, urged students to discuss alternate viewpoints with their professors. “When it comes to an exam, there are certain things we’re looking for,” she said. “But that’s different from ‘I wasn’t able to speak my mind.’”
The Center for Teaching Excellence chooses one controversial topic each semester and holds a Town Hall discussion for both students and faculty"

You can also google conversational terrorism and see a lot of familiar styles there. I found some that I have.

Love, squooshy hugs and laughter to you, Healing and Peace.

March 15, 2009
10:57 am
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I'm going to stop doing that someday........

March 15, 2009
12:09 pm
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Bevdee,

Thanks, there are certainly things in life that I'm still learning at the young age of 48..ha ha... Guest did start to get under my skin but you know what that was my fault not his because I allowed his stupid redunant questions and assumptions to go on and on to no where, you know what I'm saying. Altough, I didn't let it continue for long, and for that I know I've grown from years ago... I would have told him off if I was the same person I was years ago, people that are so close minded don't deserve a continued conversation or debate. I was in no way saying I was right and he was wrong, and to me that wasn't a debate at all, it was a conversation that he turned into a debate. It gets to a point that it is useless sometimes to even try to talk to someone that only wants to make assumptions and make indirect but direct insults to another person't beliefs. I wasn't saying I was right and he was wrong, he seems to never answer the questions others have for him, what he does is attempt to take the attention off of the questions by making assumptions.. which then leads to most of us getting frustrated even trying to dicuss the subject with him and the subject then gets side tracked.... While we try to bring attention to himself whether negative or positive attention, it his way of consciously or unconsciously I don't know which in the case of Guest. I'm not the best at writing and explaining things but I try.. and I really try not to assume what someone is saying because it is hard enough to understand what a person means when your not talking face to face... so making assumptions just adds to the present difficulty in understanding what a person is trying to say without being misunderstood while discussing something online.

I do kind of think that Tez is correct about Guest may be just playing some strange game.. because Guest made a point over and over again about questioning me about Alah! Why not the Catholic, Baptist, Gnostic, or any other beliefs out there, and the bibles they use???

I directly asked him if he has ever believed in anything and he ignored that question.. hmm I wonder why?

Now I honestly don't care one way or another because I truly don't feel there is a point in wasting energy on his beliefs or non beliefs.. what good would it do him or me. Other then him filling that empty tank of his by getting some sort of high out of his debating skills he thinks he has... I'm not a person to debate, can you tell. I'd rather just have a converstion with someone in a kind and respectful way.

So now with his last post he is just like I tried to discribe a child playing in a sand box, I'm going to go tell on you, by bringing up the Site Cordinator.. You called me names, and I'm telling, you started, too funny I remember all my kids and their friends saying pretty much the same thing when they were little and not getting their way.

Have a great day, and hopefully from now on I will just ignore any topic with Guest. It's certainly better for me if I do not get involved in a any converstions with him.

Hugs back to ya.

Healing and peace

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