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OK - as a tempoary atheist/agnostic.....
March 11, 2009
6:21 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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Guest,

If you were faced with a serious health situation and this happened to you, what would you think? I know it is kind of difficult to put yourself in this situation but think about it, what would you truly think? It isn't all about miracle either.. really the feeling and knowing that came along with it is truly beyond what I can discribe.. so I'm kindly and respectfully asking you what would think if it was you that this happened to?

healing and peace

March 12, 2009
12:36 pm
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Healing, I would think nothing. I would think this is existence and this is nature. Some ants get squished under a human foot and some are lucky to live longer. Some drown in water and some get sick. Its just the way things happen. Nature doesnt care about who is getting sick and who dies. Osama Bin Laden is still alive. That African president's wife died in a car crash. People live and die every minute. If you look at the 5% of people who survive serious medical conditions and you think its because of God, you're not thinking about 95% of people who did die.

I dont know what you mean by "what would I think". What do you think I should think? Nothing special really. Its just life.

There are different separate parts of this religion/God stuff:

1. The claim that a certain religion is from God and a certain book is from God, are all extraordinary claims. These require extraordinary evidence. But there is nothing in any holy book that would prove it could not be a human creation.

2.. Are Earthly religions real?
No, none of them. Why?:
-- All holy books contain errors and really questionable stuff.
--
The lives of the so-called prophets were less than ideal. Muhammad married a 9 year old girl and so on.

3. Does God exist?
-- Maybe, we dont know. Science hasnt prove it yet. All proofs support evolution instead. In any case, we know the answer to 2: God may exist but Earth religions are definitely all false and invalid. None of them are from a Creator. If Christianity is from God, what rules are you using to determine that? Have you applied those same rules to Islam? All religions are false.

Thats it. Anyway. yea. People live and die every day and every minute. Some die while they're sleeping, some in a Tsunami, some are choked to death with a pretzel and some survive serious medical conditions like you did. What you're doing is only looking at your own life. But yes you did admit that we dont have answers to all the questions. The answer: its random and its nature, its not God.

March 12, 2009
2:34 pm
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Guest,

I can understand why you feel this way, but at the same time I can say you truly don't understand. The accident that caused the injury was a ramdom act and just what it was an accident just like an ant getting squashed from getting stepped on but the way it turned out is so far from the way you discribed it.. but again I didn't think you would understand because it hasn't happened to you. I don't mean this as a put down at all, it's just that unless it did happen to you I'm sure it would be difficult for some to understand or concieve but for you the type that needs proof for everything that you personally can't see, I do understand why you dont' get it.

I'm not talking about ok I was sick and I got well over a period of time... This is black and white. One day this and that was wrong and damaged in my body, and then within a moments time it's gone.. and at that moment I can say that what happened to me is once again is beyond what I can explain in words.

So the following day all the Doctors run a series of test and stand there with films from two weeks prior in their hands showing severed nerves, not just one but two and all the test also indicating serious damage to the brec. plexus.. and then all the new test they ran the following day show the nerves completely, 100% better.. the nerves are reattached, and there is not one bit of evidence of nerve damage. This is not the norm... this is far from what anyone would expect or understand, is it all truly that ramdom, have you looked these kind of healings, miricles, phenomons up for yourself, it actually happens all the time... So how are you so sure it isn't God?

Kindly Healing and Peace

March 12, 2009
3:49 pm
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Ok

Are you saying this is the Gods that Christians worship or the God that Hindus/Muslims/Jews worship?

Muslims claim their God revealed the Quran. Obviously the god you believe in did not reveal the Quran.

So which God healed you?

March 12, 2009
4:46 pm
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Guest,

As far as I'm concerned there is only one God, for all of us including Hindus/Muslimss/Jews... do we learn differantly about God, I'd say yes, do we worship differantly, again I'd say yes... and I do believe there is one God and he is the same God for all of us, yes. Like I said before, he is called by a differant name depending on where you live, and what language people speak but yeah I do believe that we all do believe in the same God.

March 12, 2009
5:25 pm
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No, look... they're all different Gods.

Here's how:

Your God, the one of Christianity revealed the Bible. He said nothing about Muhammed. If its the same God, then you believe in the God of Muslims too. Their God said Christianity is outdated.

Why dont you listen to that God then and convert to (false religion of) Islam?

March 13, 2009
8:49 am
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Guest,

It's what is in the heart, and what they believe all over the world. So unless you understand this clearly, I don't think your going to understand that it is the same God all over the world...I'm not saying everyone in differant places in this world believe in the same God, but there are many that do.. I personally only know one person from Iraq, she moved her with her parents when she was very young, and her and her family do also believe in God. She believes also that it is the same God... so are you saying hey healing do you believe in Dio? Do you believe in Gotts, I'm going to say yes again, if you say do you believe that some tree or cow is God then the answer would be no.

March 13, 2009
10:30 am
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Ah, the Iragi girl was just being NICE by saying she worships the same God as you. Dont you get it?

You're repeating the "its the same God" thing. Look, you have to give a logical response to this issue:

>> Your God, the one of Christianity revealed the Bible. He said nothing about Muhammed. If its the same God, then you believe in the God of Muslims too. Their God said Christianity is outdated.

If you believe in the same God that Muslims too, then that God (Allah) has said that everyone should convert to Islam.

How do you respond to that? Are you going to say "guest, you belief in what you want to believe and I'll do the same. I dont want to argue more".

Thats fine if you want to do, but beware that if you think everyone worships the same God, that belief has severe contradictions and logical problems.

You can belief there's an invisible Turtle on which the Earth rests on too.

March 13, 2009
10:31 am
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spell grammar. blah blah......

March 13, 2009
10:54 am
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Guest,

I won't say that I don't want to argue with you on this... you just don't get it...nor do you want to believe what I'm saying to you... and you don't even know me... so how can you say that what I am saying isn't so.. how can you really say that so many things that people post isn't so... Maybe you think your God and you know everything... so there is no more point in trying to explain this to you... You are completely wrong about my friends from Iraq they are not just saying this... and they have family members that say the same... so I don't know how or why you would think you know what my friends are saying when they talk to me... or what they believe in their heart for that matter.. Go ahead and believe as you want in nothing... if your happy then that's great, if your life is so grand that you don't want any help from others or from God, that's fine too. Personally, I wouldn't want to live the life your living in such pain, with such anger.

But this is your God given free will. Peace to you Guest.

March 13, 2009
11:09 am
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Guest,

One more thing I don't have to convert to any church or say Oh well I belong to this church or that church.. because I wasn't taught this way, or programed to believe what I believe, my belief came from what I feel and know in my heart... I know you will never understand this because you are seeking to find proof from the outside world instead of looking within..... The power and knowledge is within not from some where out in space, up in the sky, or anything like that... but again as long as you keep seeking truth and proof from what you have on your own percieved that we believe someone or something up in the sky is God, well that just proves to me all the more you don't get it!

March 13, 2009
1:05 pm
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As usual you couldnt respond to the actual argument:

>> Your God, the one of Christianity revealed the Bible. He said nothing about Muhammed. If its the same God, then you believe in the God of Muslims too. Their God said Christianity is outdated. If you believe in the same God that Muslims too, then that God (Allah) has said that everyone should convert to Islam. Why do you not then convert to Islam? Did God not ask you to do that?

Its just like you believing in a Turtle supporting the Earth and when I ask you to explain that belief logically, you start telling me you trust your heart in whatever you believe.

Fine. If you think a giant turtle supports the Earth, thats ok. Its too hard for you to respond tell me exactly why you think a Turtle supporting the Earth is logically correct.

March 13, 2009
2:20 pm
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Guest,

As USUAL you are ASSUMING, so why would I want to discuss this any further with someone that gets some kind of high out of putting other people's beliefs down? Why would I want to discuss this with someone that seems to always say things in such a rude way... Why would I want to discuss this with you when you think you know what my friends believe or think?

Why are you so angry? What kind of high are you getting by thinking your right and everyone else is wrong... that their beliefs are wrong but yours are right... is that what you think? Have I ever said to you GUEST your are wrong for being an antheist? Never, not once have I ever said that to you.. You do not believe what I say, so why bother.

How about this Guest... Your right, I'm wrong, you know everything, I'm nothing and you are everything... are you happy... because that's what it seems like you are seeking from everyone on here all the time.

March 13, 2009
2:27 pm
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I never said a turtle suports the earth... I have no idea where you even got that idea either.

March 13, 2009
2:34 pm
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>> I never said a turtle suports the earth... I have no idea where you even got that idea either.

I knew there was a chance you'd say that. It was an example of an irrational belief thats not supported by any logic.

Likewise your belief that people worship the same Gods is also irrational. I've pointed out why and you had no response.

I'll try once again:

If you worship the same God as Muslims, then their God (Allah) said you should convert to Islam. Why dont you do that then? You worship the same God, right?

March 13, 2009
4:33 pm
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Guest,

And why would I have to convert to any religion at all, when I don't get involved at all in any organized churches or religion's even where I live? There you go again assuming!

March 13, 2009
4:41 pm
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You just can't even open your eyes can you Guest, try to see with an open mind, I don't at all go by what churches or any religion has tried to teach me years ago when I was a lot younger. I go by what I know from what I have learned on my own not what someone else tells me to believe!

Just like many other people do, believe it or not.. just because I am a Christian doen't mean I go by one religion or practice what someone else wants me to practice or believe. But this goes along with your continued perception and assumption of ALL Christians are out to get you, all Christians are false and ready to steal your rights away. That all christians are out to get Guest, trust me there are many other pleasent things in my life then to go after Guest.. and or even attempt to tell him he is wrong on anything... it isn't up to me to say your wrong just like it isn't up to me to say your wrong.... but go ahead and say what you please if it makes your day a better one for you, GO FOR IT!

March 13, 2009
4:54 pm
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MsGuided
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Me thinks Healing..and peace is of the gnostic version of religion.

It's way more open and less bogged down by religious bigotry. Healing doesn't take the bible so literally and that is good nor does she adhere to fundmentalist beleif that margianalizes certain groups.

Or am i assuming

I have no problem whatsoever with this type of cristian, er spiritualist.

Yea, I think Guest gets a high off of right fighting.

That aint cool homey! CHILL!

March 13, 2009
4:58 pm
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Msguided,

You've pinned me! That's me... and you assumed correctly. I'm off to the beach to enjoy the sun, the ocean and a nice swim. Have a great one!

Healing and Peace

March 13, 2009
6:15 pm
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Now that I got you pinned I'll release you to pleasurable beachdom, swimmery and a Friday the 13th cocktail of your choice.

Have Fun!

March 13, 2009
9:22 pm
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Msguided,

I didn't mean to basically blow out of here.. but when the beach is so Beeeaaaauuuttttiiiiffffullll as it has been latley, I couldn't resist.

The water is crystal clear blue, and as flat as can be... I love going in the later part of the afternoon because that's snack time for the dophins and they swim along the shoreline to more less trap the little fish between their bodies and the shore.

Anyway, yes your correct about me being spiritual, and what I call a Christian but I'm not what some would call a Gnostic or practice Gnosticism, although they do believe a lot of what I do... I really got turned off by all the organized religions at a pretty young age. When I was very young my mother would take my sister, brother and I to sunday school at a Baptist church, and I remember everyone smiling and acting so nice... but it to me even at a young age seemed like such an act, because when I would see them outside of church they weren't the same people they were in church.

So anyway between my grandmother and my mother they bounced from one church to another moreless, and I just kind of listened... I got to an age when I didnt' want to go anymore, so I didn't go... No one said I had to so it wasn't a problem... Here and there, I checked out Unity churches and other beliefs but nothing really struck me as well the almighty truth because they all said something differant and the bibles were all differant too. So my big question was, what and who is right??? There's no answer, but yet I always felt there is something out there more powerful then myself. So I call myself a "Non Dominational" Christian. and I literally mean non dominational not assocaited with any church or beleif system of any kind. I believe in a higher power then ourselves. However, you could mix in a few of the Unity beliefs, and even some of the Christian and bit of the Gnositic too, so I guess you could call me a mixed up Christian if someone insisted I call myself something at all.. lol but a peaceful and content mixed up Christian.

Oh yeah, I was looking for some native on the beach servering cocktails but just didn't seem to find any of those handsome young men around... maybe I'll have better luck next time.

Peace to you Ms Guided.. healing and peace

March 13, 2009
11:47 pm
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Healing.. and peace
13-Mar-09

You wrote to Guest:

"And why would I have to convert to any religion at all, when I don't get involved at all in any organized churches or religion's even where I live? There you go again assuming!"

Yes and he fancies himself as some kind of a rational thinker. Hmmm!!!

I found that in life the more people know the less they think they know. The converse I found true also; that is, the less people know the more they think they know.

Guest_guest thinks he knows everything. Therefore he really knows three quarters of four fifths of f..k all - still wet behind the ears, IMHO!!

March 14, 2009
12:13 am
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Tez,

I've never heard the first part of that saying, but the strange thing is that's it's so true.

I remember thinking at younger age that I knew so much.. little did I really know I found out later on in life, and I'm still learning.

Oh well, I suppose he felt it was my turn to get under his fliry of assumptions.... I deal with three son's, and two daughters all of which are young adults.. I love them to death but I'm amazed how much they know..if you ever want to know something just ask a young adult because they have all the answers to the world problems, life, and anything else pretty much.

I do see them growing up and once in a while I even hear a quiet I should have listened to that teacher, professor, mom, dad, or someone else....The best is hey Mom why didn't you warn me, or tell me it could turn out like this or that, whatever it is they might be referring to on those occational moments. Gotta love em!

Peace to you, Healing and Peace

March 14, 2009
2:13 am
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Healing.. and peace
14-Mar-09

"Tez,

I've never heard the first part of that saying, but the strange thing is that's it's so true."

I have a relative, a MD, who was Minister for Health for several years, he now holds a professorship is a most prestigious medical research institution. He writes to me using first names and is as humble a guy as one could hope to meet. This has been my experience with genuine academics of high states of learning.

Equally, thick wits who think they know everything often make outlandish statements about topics such as that of this thread of which they know nothing. G_g is an exemplar of same?

March 14, 2009
2:27 am
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Healing.. and peace
13-Mar-09

Guest,

Healing.. and peace

On the 13-Mar-09 you wrote to G_guest:

"It's what is in the heart, and what they believe all over the world. So unless you understand this clearly, I don't think your going to understand that it is the same God all over the world...I'm not saying everyone in differant places in this world believe in the same God, but there are many that do.. I personally only know one person from Iraq, she moved her with her parents when she was very young, and her and her family do also believe in God. She believes also that it is the same."

Guest_guest is a renegade Pakistani who fled Pakistan for as yet undisclosed reason. Was he into terrorism? I don't know! He won't disclose this information for some unknown reason. Yet he will demonize and disrespect his own mother by giving intimate, suspect, unproven and unconfirmed information on the internet that would devastate her if she read it. He thinks his middle eastern connection qualifies him to read the mind of an Iraqi girl whom he has never met. I'm surprised that he didn't accuse you of racism for mentioning her Iraqi nationality!! He's tried that argumentum ad hominum terror tactics on me many times as a part of his conversational terrorist activities and modus operandi.

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