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OK - as a tempoary atheist/agnostic.....
March 10, 2009
5:36 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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Terry,

I believe with all my heart, and there are many things I don't understand... Guest truly had a valid quetion to me... Why did he heal me, and not someone else or the thousands of people that die everyday... I don't have that answer, you don't have that answer and no one else does either.. It is God's doings, and for what reason I don't know but I do have a relationship with God, so just because I don't know doesn't mean all people don't have a relationship with God.. You know really we all have our own relationship with him that believe, and he works with each of us in our own time.. Do you agree?

March 10, 2009
5:59 pm
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my little athiest ears 🙁 lol. yea.

I believe in a God too. He's not the same as your God though. My God lives under my bed and he created the Universe.

i dont feel like explaining but here's what I got to say to God:

Hey God: What the bleep is your problem, my Friend? Are you that bothered if I dont believe in you? Get a frikking life, honestly. Get some counseling and get your life together. And stop throwing rocks asteroids and rocks at us. One of them just passed only about 84,000 miles from us. Keep those mofo's rocks away from our Earth. Throw them at the Sun or something if you're that bored. Maybe you should get a girlfriend and play with Her instead. If she's sexy, I'll think about of worshipping her i.e. if you stop throwing rocks at us and sending us tornados and Earthquakes.

Thats what I'd like to say to God.

March 10, 2009
5:59 pm
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Terriberry
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Yes, Healing and peace,

I couldn't agree more. And there are several things I dont understand, also. However the more we read the bible the more clear things become, and as we grow in our realtionship to the LORD, our views change.

Wouldn't you agree?

March 10, 2009
7:25 pm
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Yes, I agree Terri we grow and learn along our path as individuals each in our own way and in God's timing.

Guest, no comment at all from me on that last post. You have your beliefs and I have mine... your entitled to your opinion and your own beliefs as well... God gave you free will.

Peace to you, Healing and Peace

March 10, 2009
7:56 pm
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I'm wondering about something.

I'm an atheist. Though I lean towards Buddhism, I belong to no religion. Yet I live in a predominantly Christian country - nominally Christian, that is.

Now if I object to people being Christians, deride and ridicule their beliefs, and want them to become atheists like me, wouldn't I be better off pulling up stakes and moving to a country that is atheistic wherein religion is suppressed and Christians oppressed and deprived of freedom to worship as they wish?

Why don't I do that? Because all the atheistic countries that I can think of aren't nice places to live!!!! Hmmm!!

Wouldn't I be a hypocrite then for ridiculing a religion that would seem to have given me my freedom to be an atheist and a nice place to live?

If I had escaped from a Muslim country where little or no freedom existed and was taken in by a Christian country like the USA wouldn't I be a huge hypocrite in the nth degree if I ridiculed Christian beliefs? Hmmmmm!!!

March 10, 2009
7:59 pm
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If the cap fits ... ...

March 10, 2009
8:03 pm
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Tez

>> Because all the atheistic countries that I can think of aren't nice places to live!!!!

What countries are those? All of them are doing great as far as I know.

>> Wouldn't I be a hypocrite then for ridiculing a religion that would seem to have given me my freedom to be an atheist and a nice place to live?

Ofcourse not. That religion had NOTHING to do with giving you the freedom to live in the country you're living in. The constitution is secular and the country was founded on SECULAR principles.

Your racism is funny but sad at the same time. But given you believe you were once actually a German girl who made uniforms for soldiers, its not surprising.

March 10, 2009
8:23 pm
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Tez,

This is so much what I like about you, you have your beliefs, and you are easy to ask questions to... and you don't put other beliefs down.

As I've said I've learned from reading the insights you post even when I do not always feel I agree totally...You and I have differant beliefs and you don't attack anyone for believing one thing or put their beliefs down... I respect you greatly for this.. and you know I've tried to be kind to Guest, and even tried understanding where he is coming from but from this point on I feel he is acting like a child instead of discussing subjects it seems he reallly get's some kind of enjoyment out of putting people and their subjects down.

March 10, 2009
8:48 pm
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SpecialK
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Guest -- your "little atheist ears" are just as valid as any other. Keep questioning and searching. Just because the loudest voices insist we will ALL bow down to their god does not make it so.

March 10, 2009
9:56 pm
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hi Healing

>> and you don't put other beliefs down.

Look in some other threads. Tez has been a strong opposer of Christianity and yes, he has put it down many times. But if I hadnt said that, he'd have said in return "you're welcome". He's trying to look nice while making me look bad.

SpecialK, thanks! Yea.. will do.

March 10, 2009
10:38 pm
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bevdee
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G_?

"He's trying to look nice while making me look bad. " ????

Do you really feel that everything Tez does is geared toward you?

March 10, 2009
11:03 pm
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Did you read his comments?

March 11, 2009
12:17 am
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Guest,

No I haven't read any past post by Tez, because I've been really busy tonight getting some work done, but even if I did and found that he has been critical of other peoples beliefs I'm not so sure he did it in such a way that it would bother me too much.. I mean there is a nice way of saying things and there is a rude way of saying things.. you have your right to not believe and say what you feel just like everyone else does.. but sometimes Guest your not very nice about it.. I just don't care for a childish dicussion.. I'm more then willing to listen to what you have to say.. it's just that you don't have to be mean to people when you say them.

We are all adults on here anyway I think we all are, so let's act like it is all I'm really saying.

Peace to you, HP

March 11, 2009
12:22 am
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hi Healing, that was for Bevdee

lol well Healing I usually dont have enough time so I'm usually blunt and to the point. I been talking about religion now for more than ten years. So I just cut to the chase and I say it short, which usually doesnt come out the best in terms of politeness but due to the limited time I got, thats what I gotta do.

You had asked me stuff so I answered. We finished up the debate so everything's cool now.

Well.. i'm going to bed now.

March 11, 2009
3:14 am
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Healing.. and peace

On the 10-Mar-09 you wrote to me:

"... ... and you know I've tried to be kind to Guest, and even tried understanding where he is coming from but from this point on I feel he is acting like a child instead of discussing subjects it seems he reallly get's some kind of enjoyment out of putting people and their subjects down."

Yes, you have been kind to G_g. That is to your credit. Unfortunately he doesn't respond to kindness. He is obsessed with his childish game of one-up-man-ship that involves conversational terrorism. He plays a silly game of 'bait and switch' that will tie the unwary up in knots until they 'lose it' out of frustration. Then he resorts to the "Ha! ha! I won." kind of idiocy. Then he gloats. Of course all these games are about his unconsciously trying to pump up his low self-esteem that originates from his childhood. Because I won't play his silly game at all, he gets more obsessed with trying to find the right 'bait'. He thought that he was on a winner with his reincarnation thread 'bait'. His transparency is so obvious. He seems to think that quoting one of my many past life experiences will get me riled. I find his childishness most fascinating, considering that he inhabits an adult body. I think he needs a good stint in the US Marine Corps to make a man out of him. But I seriously doubt that they would accept him in any of the armed services. They would realise quickly that he wouldn't survive mixing with real men. He would get a hell of a hiding and then go running looking for his 'mommy'.

I did 2 years in the Australian Army and 6 years in the Royal Australian Air Force. It did me the world of good. I went from being in trouble with the law, mixing with hardened criminals, etc into a very disciplined environment over night. But I learned how to get on with men and to grow up quickly. Luckily for me I didn't have to go to war and kill anyone.

March 11, 2009
8:25 am
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Tez wrote:

>> They would realise quickly that he wouldn't survive mixing with real men

Oh really. What if I mixed in with real men and told them that I believed that I had been a German GIRL in my past life? Imagine their reaction to that. They'd simply go --> "muahahha! Ya think?"

Healing, Tez has stated in the reincarnation thread that he sincerely believes that he was once a German girl who made uniforms for soldiers. Unbelievable.

I have never met anyone before who believed in anything like this. I had heard of reincarnation, but I hadnt heard of anyone's personal beliefs on it.

Healing, you know, sometimes I like to joke around on religion and I joked around about God too and thats just what I like to do sometimes. I also get into serious debate but not always. Thats just me.

March 11, 2009
10:57 am
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Guest,

I truly don't care if Tez feels he was a pit bull in his privious life.. really it isn't up to me to say he is right or wrong... if that is his belief then that's his belief... I respect it as much as I do anyone else's... Do I believe in the same as everyone in the world, no. Just like many do not believe in God... but that's alright with me.. So please respectfully I'm asking you not to pull me into whatever problem you have with Tez by addressing his belief to me.

Respectfully, Healing and Peace

March 11, 2009
11:26 am
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MsGuided
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Why judge or malign a person for something they beleive especially if it harms no-one.

Tez's reincarnation experience harms no-one! It doesn't define his whole person.

This sparring match is becoming the focus of this thread and it's POLLUTION to open debate and sharing.

I don't beleive in God, am not religious but you don't see me going after, or making fun of those who post their beleifs..UNLESS it is in a specific thread that invites open debate about religion verses non-religion. Likewise the religious here usually leave us athiests and agnostics alone.

To each their own

g_g you should read the 9 satanic statements. I'll post them here.

"1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years! "

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

How do those rule sets sit with you?

Be well!

March 11, 2009
11:39 am
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MsGuided
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Also.The Church of Satan has a large element of provocation attached to it.

A lot of it is adversarial to religious belief and takes on an air of mockery which creates constant conflict between the two sides.

Interesting to ponder.

March 11, 2009
12:02 pm
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Ok Healing

MsG, nope. I'm not part of the Church of Satan.

If someone believes that they turn into a frog at night and croak in a pond until the sun rises, people can talk about that belief, right?

Or are you saying everyone should stay silent and not talk about the elephant in the room?

Thats all I do. People believe in Jesus and Dalai Lamas and Mohammed and what not. I like to comment on all that, thats all.

You're blasting me for "making fun of people's beliefs and religion", but you had nothing to say when labels like g_hole and wuss were applied to me. Double standards?

March 11, 2009
12:26 pm
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Msg

>> 4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

Ofcourse this is really stupid. I think they're joking. They dont really mean it. Its meant to be something from a rebel just for the heck of it.

For example you'll find happy couples who are completely normal citizens while they believe in this "Satanism" or whatever its called.

These people are bored so they like doing "stuff".

March 11, 2009
1:05 pm
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MsGuided
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I don't think you're a part of the Chruch of Satan but the 9 statements..what do you think of them? You don't have to post it here, just reflect.

I'm not a cristian but there are parts of the bible I agree with in the realm of moral conduct ( some of it)Taking snippets from a beleif system doesn't make you a complete follower.

I don't look at everything in absolute terms.

I don't expect people to be silent. But this isn't debate. It's becoming judgmental and reeks of personal vendetta.

AND when I said sparring match, It takes two, so I'm not picking on you exclusively. That statement goes for Tez too....this is becoming a long drawn out mud sling. As soon as a subject is wetted out comes the "mud", and the observers feeding it. That includes me.

Most here look within. The focus should be to deal with the harmful negative aspects of ourselves, make ourselves accountable for the things that happen in our lives. It isn't always possible since random acts happen and we can't control or block all disasters from coming our way.

Being accountable doesn't happen either if one doesn't acknowledge or deal with what holds them down

I also beleive that I can save myself from a lot of pain by looking at myself ( learn about the self distructive things my family of origion imprinted within me)and try to change what creates conflict or harm being directed my way.

Obviously your feelings are hurt from the name calling, there's a long history of what once was trust, turned to disdain ( the derogatory commnets are piling up) but it's up to you and Tez to make amends if you want to.

Honestly. I like what Tez has to offer. He is very well versed in human behaviour and he does it in a purely scholastic manner. However the sparring and conflict between you two, the injections from others in between, make it time consuming and difficult to focus on the nitty gritty. It get's in the way of my taking in what is important.

In essence it is repelent and leads me away from knowledge.

It diffuses my ability to focus and creates an emotional response within me. I either get sarcastic, or focus on the conflict ( like now) The important stuff fades into the background.

This is reactive behaviour,on my part also, an exercise to challenge my ability to focus.

Either way, right now i am just irritated by it all.

;0/

March 11, 2009
2:00 pm
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MsG

>> It get's in the way of my taking in what is important.

and..... what would that be?

>> It diffuses my ability to focus and creates an emotional response within me.

Emotional training for ya, for free.

I had an fear based response this morning to me going out to meet somoene. I asked myself why I was afraid. I sat down on the computer and tried to trace my feelings. Nothing came out of it but I tried.

Everything we face in life can be a test for us.

>> This is reactive behaviour,on my part also

You got it. Try being a little less reactive. Maybe there's something else going on thats bothering you.

>> ;0/

what does that smiley mean! Is it a wink 😀 ? hehe. A mischievious one I think.

Yea, you really dont have to be effected by whats going on between me and other people, unless I talk to you directly. Learn to be a little aloof and a little relaxed.

March 11, 2009
2:00 pm
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ah grammar, etc.

"*a fear based response"

March 11, 2009
2:41 pm
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Healing

Earlier you had said: "Tez, this is so much what I like about you, you have your beliefs, and you are easy to ask questions to... and you don't put other beliefs down. You and I have differant beliefs and you don't attack anyone for believing one thing or put their beliefs down"

Here is one of Tez's response to someone else last year:

Tez
18-Apr-08

Sweet Peas

On the 11-Apr-08 you wrote:

"Religion makes no difference. I just can't seem to get it. How do people go through the crap that most of us on this site have, and still believe in a loving and merciful God? People here lean on Him, and trust him, and claim He brought them through.

Me?? I am angry, and struggle to believe that if He is what I was taught, why did I have to suffer? Why did any of us? I also say, that why are we depending on someone to pull us through that could have stopped it from the start?

Why didn't He protect me? If he is real, why didn't he protect you?

I just don't get it"

Good for you!!! An ideal, unconditionally loving, all powerful, all knowing father certainly would have protected even the most errant of his children. Hitler would never have had a dysfunctional psyche and WW2 would never have happened. You would have had perfect parents together with percect parenting as would the rest of creation. The lion would lay down with the lamb and eat the grass. Neither predators nor victims of any kind would exist. The list of differences that would exist in the world, were an omnipotent, omniscient, unconditionally loving God of the Christian ilk to exist, is endless.

The logical conclusion of the Christian premise of the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, unconditionally loving God is that such a God must either cause or permit all 'things' without exception.

Therefore this Christian God either causes or permits all the horrors in the universe to exist without exception.

If this Christian God is all good and thus unconditionally loving, then all these horrors must be in the very best interests of its victims without exception.

If there is at least one exception then the head domino falls and the whole Christian domino set falls down also.

How can being cruelly raped, sodomized and then murdered be in the victims best interests??? How was the holocaust in the Jews' best interests??? The list of predator/victim duos in this world is seemingly endless - at least up until the end of this planet with its ultimate heat death.

The Christian God is a fantasy just like Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. The only difference is the Christians have failed to put away the fantasies of childhood.

There certainly is a Ground of All Being, of this there can be no doubt. Science is hot on the trail of this in the guise of Quantum Physics. But I am deadly certain that science won't find the personal Christian God at the end of the trail or anything like Him!! Professor Paul Davies, the renowned physicist, some years ago said: "... maybe something of a more mystical nature is more appropriate when we reach these ultimate questions."

Sweet Peaa, you are on the cusp of breaking free from your past Christian indoctrination.

You are asking very, very important questions of yourself and fellow Christians. Unlike most confirmed Christians, you are starting to seriously question your Christian beliefs in the light of your own observations of how you see the world. You are starting to shed the second hand, hand-me-down beliefs invented by primitive peoples of antiquity.

You will not get satisfactory answers from Christians regurgitating the mainstream Christian beliefs because they have none. The reason why is because their beliefs are the product of primitive minds who were unable to escape the superstitions of the past.

(quote from Tez ends)

Healing, quoting you again: "Tez, this is so much what I like about you, you have your beliefs, and you are easy to ask questions to... and you don't put other beliefs down. You and I have differant beliefs and you don't attack anyone for believing one thing or put their beliefs down"

After reading the above, do you think what you said is true? No. Me and Tez have infact been together supporting each other on anti-Christian stuff. He'd come to save me and I'd come to save him.

Oh look what I saw. A post by Tez, thats what I'm talking about:

Tez
19-Jun-08

guest_guest.

You said:

"God could easily have prevented this fall"

You are a funny bugger. I followed the link above and pissed myself laughing. I played the video clip over and over and couldn't stop laughing at it each time.

The reaction of the congregation was such that you would think that they thought that their savior, Jesus himself, had lost his head.

You are a very naughty boy for upsetting all the Christians by trying to destroy their 'security blanket'.

You speak as though you believe that the God of the Bible and the Koran really exists. You wrote:

"Soofoo, if people get defensieve about God like that thats pretty silly, because God doesnt need protection."

The good ol days, when I used to make Tez laugh.

Look what else Tez used to say:

OK guest_guest, I see that you're outnumbered again and under attack. Or is it the other way around? Anyway, I'll step in and give you a hand, bro.

Tez calling me 'bro', wow. And now well. :(( its not like that anymore huh. Well... stuff happens. I really cant help looking at people's beliefs under a microscope. I honestly never knew Tez's beliefs in reincarnation. When I started questioning them, it all went down. Anyway its ok. We go through different stages.

Tez has said in the same thread (see below for specifics on which thread it was):

Beliefs usually have some basis underpinning them. Often this basis is not rational at all but emotionally based. In other words when a certain belief feels right, good, comfortable, nice, reassuring, familiar, etc it is often readily accepted without question by those who are willing to be guided by their emotions rather than cognitions.

I wonder when he started believing in reincarnation. The above post was dated Jun 2008 in the "Give it up to God" thread (click on "one year"). He'll probably say that his belief in reincarnation is not based on emotions but facts etc. Healing says that her belief too is based on facts: she got out of a bad health situation which to her, was nothing short of a miracle.

Anyway it was nice to read stuff from a while ago.

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