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OK - as a tempoary atheist/agnostic.....
March 9, 2009
5:45 pm
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TB,

I agree with you, don't need all the riches of the world or the worries of saving 20 cents. I have all the proof I need to know there is a God, and not ashamed to say so either. All the money in the world couldn't take place of his blessings, and I wouldn't trade them for anything else.

Guest, have you ever believed in anything that you can't see? Have you ever had any faith in any sort of belief of any higher power at all? Just courious... and God wouldn't have to see a flying dragon under your bed he already knows, what's in your bed, under your bed and in your closet. One more question have you ever felt love?

March 9, 2009
6:01 pm
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opps.. sorry for the typo...

My soul is already saved .
I also forgot to add. Even Thomas, believed after GOD showed him and he doubted.

GOD is the only one that can change your heart. Once he does you will never be the same again.

March 9, 2009
6:19 pm
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TruthBtold

On the 9-Mar-09 you wrote:

"Not to somehow just regurgitate the lessons of our family and the traits passed down as such - but to finally strike out on own own and realize and come to terms with our own truths?????

Deep down.

In our guts??????"

Yes, yes and yes again to this statement. I believe that this is the only way that we can become 'authentic'. Otherwise we are little more than puppet clones of those who have gone before us.

Having said that, I guess that 'being able to live and let live' is also a part of that authenticity of loving oneself.

I believe that it is a deep seated fear of being wrong - whatever that means - that motivates us to attack the beliefs of others, no matter how well disguised that fear is.

March 9, 2009
7:20 pm
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Tez,

My apologies to you.

(Perhaps I mis-judged you all along.)

This may or may not be warranted - given my entire thread....so please, hang with me.

Deep seated fear of being wrong?

Maybe?

Maybe not.

All depends on your motivations.

This "deap-seated fear of being wrong."

Could we perhaps be on the same page here?????

What EXACTLY does that mean to you?

For me, it means that I sold myself a bad lot of goods and just accepted it as truth.

Sold myself short, as it were.

I seemed to have put much more importance on the reality of others with reagrd to my own self esteem and well being than what was actually merited.

Is this where you were getting at?

Please be honest here Tez.....

(I won't judge you.)

I would hate to think that this is just another mindless round of 'gotcha' mentality.....you know?

I am all about getting right down to the bottom-line nitty-gritty bone essence of something.....I am hoping that you are about that too~!!!!!!

(Even if we (the both of us) have to eat a little bit of humble pie in the process.....)

You know?

So what?

March 9, 2009
9:35 pm
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Healing

>> Guest, have you ever believed in anything that you can't see? Have you ever had any faith in any sort of belief of any higher power at all?

Muslims claim Allah is God. You dont agree. You dont believe in Allah too. As for me feeling love - not sure if thats relevant. Where are you going? Jesus love etc?

March 9, 2009
9:53 pm
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Guest,

Will you answer that question then I will tell you, and no it wasn't going to be mention Jesus... it is relevant... so go ahead and answer... lol .... have you ever felt love?

I'm not sure what you mean .. I don't agree??? My belief is in God, as my higher power.. so anyone can call him anything they want really as far as I'm concerned.

March 9, 2009
9:55 pm
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what kind of love? motherly, friendly, girlfriendly? yes i've felt it. Not motherly though, my mom is a rat.

Belief in a higher power isnt necessary. Many athiests live happy lives.

March 9, 2009
10:14 pm
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Guest,

I've never said your not happy, you appear angry but I've never said because your an athiest your not happy or not capable of being happy.

Ok, so now to try to explain why I asked that question....you have said over and over again that you need to see something in order to know it exist, you need proof.

It doesn't matter what kind of love you have felt or for whom.. so my point is this, you can't see love, you don't have proof that it is love so how do you know it is love... and the answer is that it is a feeling, and just like many people that have a belief in a higher power, wheather God, Jesus, Allah, Hindo, Budda, whatever..I certainly don't know all the beliefs out there... but it is the feeling they get from that belief and faith... That feeling I can only discibe as similar to love, and in some cases the same as love, but yet you can't see this feeling or a physical form, you can't physically touch this feeling, it is what it is love and there is no question in someone's mind when they feel it.. so how can you say for everything in regard to what people feel and belive that you need proof when so many people are saying they just know, just like you just know how love feels.

Not really questions to you, just how I justify and come to my own belief.. and not sure if you have read what I have posted on another thread to Soofoo, but that is also all the proof I needed.. the doctors couldn't explain it, but I know what I felt, and I know for a fact the pain was gone... so that is really all the prood I ever needed. I didn't see Christ, I didn't see God, I didn't hear any voice, or anything but their is no other explanation of the peace, the boyant feeling.

I'm not preaching to you Guest, I just wanted to share this with you, and you don't have to believe it. My feelings won't be hurt.

Peace

March 9, 2009
10:21 pm
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Some people have the same "feeling" about UFO's and aliens. Is that all true too?

March 9, 2009
10:49 pm
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Guest,

Your correct some people claim they have seen them and say that they had a feeling of some sort. I can't answer that, because I've never felt what they have felt...so my answer is yes it could be true.

I can't speak for others, I can tell you what happened to me and tell you that once I told my doctor what had happened he told me that he has heard the same exact thing from a few other patients in his at the time 32 years of being a Doctor... and on top of this they ran test after test and didn't have any explaination at all other then some calling it a medical mircle, a phenomon.. and God. Now to just briefly explain the medical problem two of my nerves were completely severed.. and extensive damage to the Brec. plexus.. and when they did the MRI's after words and EMG's along with many other test.. nothing showed up at all anymore.. and there truly was no more pain... so based on the feeling I got, and the knowing when it happened what happened.. there is no question in any of the Doctor's mind, nor mine what it was that happened.

March 9, 2009
10:55 pm
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Why did God answer your prayers and not of other people? Muslims claim the same miracles for their God Allah.

Good that you recovered, great! but.. its all random. 250,000 people died in that Tsunami. I'm sure a lot of them had prayed to live long happy lives. God didnt listen and - God doesnt heal amputees, as that website says. Why not?

But wait, you dont believe in Allah, right?

March 9, 2009
11:01 pm
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Guest,

They are all the same questions I have had, and honestly I don't have the answers.. and wish I did that's for sure.. I see sick children everyday, dying, and with horrible deceases.. and I've asked that same question over thousands of times.

I don't know God as Allah, really.. I mean if someone told me that God's name was MONKEY or TOM that wouldn't change the way I feel or what I know... and I don't know what the proper name is really... I just refer to the higher power as God.. maybe if I was in a differant country I would be calling God by another name.. you know what I'm saying?

March 9, 2009
11:07 pm
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Guest after this happened to me I researched it as much as I could and there are thousands and thousands of people that this has happened to.

And most them had the same questions as you and I have.. why me?

March 9, 2009
11:20 pm
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So suppose I made up an imaginary God. I pretend to be his prophet. I believe in that higher power. Is it the same as yours? Nope ....

If I believe in a non-existing higher power, thats as good as me not believing in anything.

March 9, 2009
11:24 pm
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Guest,

I'm sorry I don't understand what your asking or saying?

March 9, 2009
11:29 pm
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Maybe your saying that I am believing in an imaginary God? I don't really understand what your saying.. Some people don't believe and then just pray for guideness and they seem to get it.. but I'm not saying you have to ... or anything like that.. when I happened to me I wasn't even praying.. I was actually to the point where I was like yeah right to all this belief which at the time was only belief in what I was told or maybe heard.. but then once this happened to me there would be no way that someone could tell me any differant.. because of what I felt, it was real.. not imagined.. and you can't imagine a medical condition to be gone like in a second it's gone... I was angry when this happened to me really angry.

March 9, 2009
11:34 pm
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I mean really angry that my life had come to a complete stop..not that I was better!

March 9, 2009
11:44 pm
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Guest,

All I can say to you is this, I'm not telling you what to believe or not believe.. I never have and never will.. but I will tell you that there are some people that say ok I don't believe and they even say I don't know how to pray because I don't believe and I dont want to pray to something that I don't believe in at all.. but there have been many, many people that thought and believed as you do.. and then they say ok I will say this to whatever is GOD or whatever the higher power is.. IF your out there and all this is true then why don't I feel it, why don't I get it.. and they take on a micro amount of faith and they see their lifes change... Do I expect you to do this, no.. like I said I'm not going to tell you ever what to believe or not believe.. This is just an explaination of people building their faith in a higher power.

March 10, 2009
12:28 am
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Healing, well im so sleepy right now so I'm going to bed but I'll come here tomorrow.. good night!

March 10, 2009
7:24 am
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TruthBtold

On the 9-Mar-09 you wrote:

"Tez,

My apologies to you.

(Perhaps I mis-judged you all along.)"

No I don't think any apologies are warranted. The reason that I say that is that I am totally unaware of having taken any offence. In fact I can't even remember any reason given by you whereby I could possibly have taken offence.

And you asked:

"Deep seated fear of being wrong?

... ...

This "deap-seated fear of being wrong."

Could we perhaps be on the same page here?????

What EXACTLY does that mean to you?

... ... ...

Is this where you were getting at?

Please be honest here Tez..... "

In my opinion, if uncritically thinking people, usually children, inculcate a religious belief based upon some authority figure's pronouncements,then any alternative rational argument casting doubts upon the veracity of their beliefs tends to trigger off fear that they might have 'backed the wrong horse' in the religious stakes. They then have two possible alternatives:

1. One alternative in addressing this fear is to start thinking for themselves about their whole beliefs system - an adult(A) response,

2. while another is to vehemently deny that there is any possibility that their guru, avatar, religious founder could possibly be wrong, therein arbitrarily dismissing any possible doubt entering their mind - a childhood(C) or parental response(P).

The first alternative requires courage and confidence in one's own ability to think for oneself, not often possessed by most people - an adult response(A). I didn't attain such levels of courage and confidence until my mid thirties and later. Even then, I had a battle to throw off the shackles of past religious beliefs(P) inculcated in early childhood(C) indoctrination and enculturation.

Inside a battle ensues - a battle for supremacy. The 'adult' self(A) does battle with both the 'parent'(P) and the 'childhood'(C) self. See Eric Berne's Theories of Transactional Analysis for PAC(Parent, Adult, Child) interactions within and between individuals. For example, the parental(P) self-talk might go like this: "The minister knows better than you do what's true - what would you know anyway. Don't question the beliefs of your elders, just believe them!". The adult self-talk says: "but my beliefs have to make sense!" and the child self says: "I don't want to offend anyone so I'll go along with the beliefs of the majority so that most people will like and support me!"

The result of inner and interrelational P.A.C conflicts in regard to religious beliefs is fear, fear and more fear of having the 'wrong' religious beliefs when death arrives at any totally unpredictable instant at one's door!! The easy way out is to capitulate to either the 'emotional child' or the 'parent within'. Both require the least effort and involve the least conflict with the majority of others. To adopt the adult position from within takes wisdom, compassion(for the self) and courage. The cognitive dissonance that results is far from pleasant in my experience - it creates a lot of fear of being 'wrong'. You can see many examples of that kind of fear here on this site when religious beliefs are credibly and rationally challenged. I don't do much of that these days - if I can help it. Most of the time I've gotten over the need to be or to prove that I am 'right' - unlike some one else that I could mention. But he has a long road to tread yet - so 'patience and tolerance' is the name of the game for me. That 'patience and tolerance under insult' quite often involves silence!

Does that make my meaning somewhat clearer?

March 10, 2009
11:11 am
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Guest Guest,

God is not just a feeling of love. Nor is he just an authority figure. There are many attributes to God.
The more you understand them, the more you get a idea of who GOD is.

One of those attributes,is that he is a sovereign GOD. Our ways are not his ways. A major error most people make is to forget that who we are dealing with. We are dealing with a Holy GOD.
GOD is set a part from us. There is only one GOD. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The dont understand, because the dont have a realtionship with GOD.
GOD however makes himself known to all us. Weither we admit it or not,
Also Remember, GOD will not be mocked.

March 10, 2009
2:40 pm
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hi Healing

>> This is just an explaination of people building their faith in a higher power.

Like I said, Muslims believe in a higher that is different from the HP that you believe in. Which HP is the correct one then?

Terri, sorry.. I'm an athiest and I stay happy like this. Tell me this though: if I told God to believe in a winged dragon living under my bed, would He believe in it without seeing it for himself?

Yes for this case we're assuming he doesnt know everything. If I knew everything like he did, I wouldnt need to see it to believe it. But I'm human.

Would you believe in that winged dragon until YOU saw it? Why should I believe in God until I see him too?

Could you also please stop writing GOD in all caps? Why do people do that? They say using all caps is shouting.

March 10, 2009
2:57 pm
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Guest_Guest,

I suppose the question ask you can take up with him on the day, you bow your knee to him. However on that day... I doubt you will be in the mood for such trival questions. However much they seem to keep you amused now.

To answer your last question. No, I will not writing GOD in all caps.
I do it as sign of respect, to the GOD I belive in and worship. So for GOD I put email traditions aside.

March 10, 2009
3:23 pm
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But to answer your question... I Will not stop writting his name in caps.

IT IS OUT OF RESPECT FOR
THE HOLY AND SOVERIGEN GOD
THE ALPHA AND THE OMGEA
THE GOD HEAD THREE IN ONE
THE FATHER SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE LORD OF LORD
THE KING OF KINGS...
THE GOD ALMIGHTY.
THE GREAT I AM.

so you'll just have to turn the volume down on this email... if that hurts your little athiest ears.

March 10, 2009
5:12 pm
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Guest,

I don't know if the Muslims believe in a differant God then I do, I would have no way of knowing this as I don't know anything about their beliefs... I do know that in Dutch God is called Godt, and in Italy he is called Dio, in spanish he is called Dios, in German he is called Gott... so yes there are many names for GOD depending on were you live and what language you speak.

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