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no such thing as safe sex today
December 11, 2003
6:31 pm
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Molly
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I just came from a training, paid by the Feds, ( your US tax dollars) thank you the hotel was great.... I had a reality check, that is bothering me, I was corrected in safe sex to safer sex. There is no such thing as safe sex today. I am now certified in demonstrating the female condom! I have never had sex with a condom. I was trained to teach women to sneak it on, sneak condoms on their men, and to demand safer sex with a condom, how sad.. what do you think ????

December 11, 2003
6:40 pm
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Anam Cara
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`Molly-

Down right sensible if you ask me!

Anam

December 11, 2003
6:48 pm
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Cici
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Well I thought it was pretty cut a dried, maybe the generational difference. The only safe sex is no sex, condoms break and all that jazz. I've had broken condoms and two episodes where I had to take the morning after pill. I learned from friends where to get tested for free and I've gotten tested for all STDs every 6 months since I became sexually active (excepting when I had one partner for 4 years).

And if a guy doesn't like wearing a condom, he has no place being in your bed. Bah.

That said, I really think they should make different condom sizes, because I've known a few guys who couldn't even fit into the magnum ones.

December 11, 2003
6:54 pm
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silence
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I'd like to think my sex life is considered safe. Or do I have to start washing my hands before?

December 11, 2003
6:59 pm
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Cici
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I realized that sounded a bit harsh - but I am so tired of the wimpering passivity of women in the bedroom.

Example, (since I have almost all male friends) - these two guys, good friends, got into it because a chick slept with both of them in the same night. This chick is now a "ho" and all that, right? But if it were a guy screwing two girls, he would be slapping fives with his buddies. Such BS. Women need to be more dominating and take charge and no nonsense: "you WILL listen to me, or suffer the wrath of the poo-nanny!" kind of thing.

December 11, 2003
8:08 pm
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mj
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I agree that sex with a condom is the only way to go until established by testing for AIDS for a year in a monogamist relationship...so that AIDS does not prematurely take your life. I have had two tests and talk freely with my partner about the need for safe sex. I believe that the statistics keep going up and up and we need to protect ourselves.

December 11, 2003
10:35 pm
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Zinnie
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Scariest thing on TV today? Watch "Maury" some time. Seems to me that all he does any more is paternity testing.

Each woman out there, seems to have more than one child, and is testing as many as five or six men at a time. Then, they get these men out there, and we find out that they have three or four or more kids out there by different woman.

So, here I am a "one man" kinda girl, and thinking OMG - but, then the other reality hits. These people are all out there having unprotected sex.

The new statistic is that one of the fastest growing infected groups out here now is married couples. Why? How? Because one or both of them are having relations outside of their marriage and bringing it home.

So sad.

Zinnie

December 11, 2003
11:31 pm
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Molly
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z- you are right...The highest rate of disease is in women, and heterosexual at that.. HIV isn't the highest mark either. Its all the other ones that have no symptoms, herpes, warts, chlymidia, gonoreeah,Hep, a,b,c,d,e,f, and G... pardon my spelling, to lazy to get up. Its not what you might have done last week, but maybe in 1978 ? I am freaked out. I really need a suspect to try out this female condom, you can put it in up to 8 hours before, supposedly it fits all, its not laytex, so .... it gets warm, its not constricting, but $2 a pop. It might even stimulate the clitoris.... Its just a different world today, and the messages are not geting out.

December 12, 2003
10:44 am
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arwen
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I feel frustrated every time I hear people trying to "preach" to our teens that abstinence is the only way to go. I was older than most of my friends when I lost my virginity--a staggering 18--and that was back in the early 80's. Only a couple of years later the HIV information began to leak slowly but surely to the public.

Most of my friends, and people I know even today lost their virginity around age 15. These days it is common for 12 and 13 year olds to become pregnant. And that's not taking into consideration the amount of IV drug use!

As soon as my kids were old enough to ask questions about sex we started talking about birth control and safe sex. When I had a feeling my son was considering becoming sexually active, I went and bought him some condoms and left them in his room without a word. He is now 17 and uses them religiously.

My daughter and I have very open communication about sex and she understands that she is allowed to have condoms just in case. She also knows that I will take her for a pelvic and we will gather information and choose a method of birth control for her when she is ready, but that the condoms have to be used regardless.

I might take a few hits for being too liberal with my kids. It won't be the first time, and won't be the last time. One thing I can say for sure is that I'd rather be buying condoms than diapers!

Arwen

December 12, 2003
4:33 pm
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Cici
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Wheeee....I am definately not a one man kinda woman. All of my friends lost their virginity at early ages, and we all have done some crazy things, sexually, but they did them in high school!!! (Not me, being that I was under lockdown until college).

But paying the price for risky sexual behaviors isn't always just HIV. I got HPV, human papilloma virus...not genital warts...this disease causes cervical cancer in women. So now I have cancer on my cervix and I have to have part of my cervix removed in january.

But ya know, consequences, I was aware of the risks and took them.

December 12, 2003
6:40 pm
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Molly
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Cici, I am so sorry, but that is part of the education that I got. Some of the diseases cause infertality, some cause cancer. HIV is like not the big worry. I mentioned to some one that I was going to do this research, and they said but there are such good drugs, well the drugs don't cure all. The female condom is gross looking, but... an option.

December 12, 2003
11:39 pm
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Zinnie
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Cici,

You girl, are in my prayers. I had uterine cancer, and have been living on chemo and cancer drugs for five years now. It is not an easy road. So, if you need to talk, post a thread with my name, and here I will be.

My best girlfriend's daughter was diagnosed with clymydia (sp?) at 16. She is now 28 and married, and trying desperately to get pregnant. She just found out yesterday that due to the disease she had 12 years ago, she will not be able to concieve naturally.

I know all of the other diseases out there are bad too. But, AIDS is the one that kills.

Arwen, yes, you might take hits from being too liberal with your kids. But, you know what? I don't care if my kids were telling me they wanted to be Baptist preachers when they came of age, we would still be having that same talk from an early age, and condoms would be dispensed any time they walked out the door.

Sure, abstinance sounds great, and yes, I wish I had practiced that until I married for lots of reasons - mostly emotional. But, kids are kids, and hormones are hormones. Even in adults - hormones are hormones. After my first husband died, about a year later I became involved sexually with a man after only two dates. I was not serious about this man, had no intentions on anything going any further than having a good time, and lordy help me "getting my ya-ya's out!" Let me tell ya, he did not come near me without wearing a raincoat. Ya know?

My own kids, both their Mother and Father and I were adamant about the use of condoms. I know other people would say "just tell them to abstain" - come on they were teenager's. Then, when they became young adults, again, hormones are hormones. After my daughter was attacked last year, the longest hell was waiting for her tests to come back. Then again in six months, and again just this last week. Thank the Lord she is fine.

After I saw that show, although I love my husband with all my heart and trust him with my life. I told him "if you ever even think of it, use a damn condom" - which of course will not matter because if he is dead - after I killed him... evil smile and beady eyes - because not only do I not want to get infected with anything, but I would not want him to either.

No Molly, you are right, there are all kinds of drugs. But, do they let folks know that in order to take these drugs, you have to shell out a minimum of $15,000 a year? And, they still only keep you alive, you are still going to die, and going to die a bad death.

My brother, older than me by five years rec'd a blood transfusion in the late 70's from an accident. We lost him in 1993. It was not pretty. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

Sorry, I will hop off of my soap box now.

Zinnie

December 13, 2003
10:55 am
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Molly
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My point was others are casual about the drugs. Of course they are the same ones that think ah what the hell, won't happen to me, they look clean, but most of the time there are no obvious symptoms. Thus the problem. I am sorry about your brother, and there have been many changes in the last 10 years with medication, and diagnosis. Health care workers can get the for lack of a better word, morning after treatment, if they feel they have been exposed. Hep C is scarey that virus stays alive for over a week on a table top or pedicure tool. Then of course these damn things keep mutating. Its just sad.
In processing all the information, its just real clear to me, that the women have the power, they always have been in controll with respect to a man will always ask, they just really have to be aware of all the consequences today, and not give into that urge. Damn

December 13, 2003
3:12 pm
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Zinnie
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Thanks Molly.

We were lucky, in the fact that we had him from the time he was diagnosed which was in 1986 to 1993.

Yes, ultimately we have the real power. What is sad is the fact that most women will not use that power.

Z.

December 13, 2003
7:44 pm
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Cici
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Thanks Zinnie. The sad fact is that truth and consequences are something that happen after the fact more often than not. Teenagers especially feel that they are invinscible. I just wish that they would have access to protection at like the school nurses office or something, instead of having the government fund abstinence only sex edcation programs.

I mean, you guys are intelligent, well read women. But a lot of women aren't so much, or are afraid to discuss the taboos of normal human sexuality with their children. t's slowly changing I guess. My Mom kinda relied on HBO (har har har, here I am).

December 13, 2003
10:19 pm
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Zinnie
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Scariest commercial I have ever seen?

Opening scene: a bar with people dancing, having a good time, and ordering drinks.

The idea: having a good time, thought it was a commercial for beer.

Next Scene: a couple sitting at the bar having a good time, laughing, drinking, kissing. You see him help her put on her coat, you get the idea that they know each other well. They laugh as they walk out the door.

Fade to black screen: CAN YOU PICK THE PERSON IN THIS BAR WITH AIDS?

Goes back to the couple walking out the door.

Fade to black screen: SHE DID.

December 16, 2003
6:43 pm
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Molly
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Its scary but--- sounds like a great PSA... I also liked the one with the woman smoking with the photo of the fetus inhaling. I have given allot of consideration and thought to this out reach effort. Duh the population I am intended to reach is a joke, but the material is good for the younger set. The question is where, and really at what age. Have to admit, when my girls were eight, I would maybe question the age appropriate material, but with the stats out, that might be the age that we begin to at least introduce STD's in biology, or health ed, or PE, with out discussing the appropriateness of sexual behavior. I have a set of photos, that would make you cross your legs and go buy a BOB for the rest of your life, and reproduction would be with the turkey baster. Maybe a photo of genital warts worst case, on a condom dispensing machine in each woman's restroom, with a discount during happy hour ?????? I just talked to a friend, that was with a man, that she knows has been with 6 other women in the last 4 days, and do you think she is using a condom ? Nope, and all she could say is after my banter the last few days, is that maybe she should get tested, but after her test, what will she do ? I really think it is just like pregnancy, and look at all the unwed mothers, not to shame them, but they didn't expect that surprise either. We really need to take some ascertive action in behalf of our selves if we expect economic equality, far less healthy bodies. Ya know most don't have symptoms, and there is no home testing yet. I really feel like some one should be like the JW's and go door knocking.

December 16, 2003
7:45 pm
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gingerleigh
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So is STD transmission on the rise, staying the same, or falling? Curious too... is unplanned pregnancy on the rise, staying the same, or falling?

I dunno, do awareness programs really help? Growing up in the 80's, I was inundated with "smoking is bad for you", all kinds of health classes on it, etc. Yet peers of mine (and me too for a period of time) still chose to smoke. And it seems like the protection during sex would be even harder to influlence. People who have never smoked before don't usually get this crazy strong urge to smoke... you just sort of, well, try it? Whereas with sex, there are hormones to contend with, getting swept up in the moment, that makes all those awareness programs fly out the window... "condom who?" If awareness programs can't convince people not to try things that are more experimental (like cigarettes, pot, other drugs), what kind of uphill battle are we trying to fight to modify behavior that is programmed in us biologically? Not that I'm saying that we shouldn't try... gosh, we have our work cut out for us though.

December 17, 2003
1:36 am
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Zinnie
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Hi Ginger,

Sadly STD's are on the rise, and mutating. Unplanned pregnancies are at an all time high, with the age group becoming younger and younger. We are supposed to be the "more educated" generation.

Molly your comment "on a condom dispensing machine in each woman's restroom, with a discount during happy hour ??????" Although I know you meant it seriously, it is funny to think of... just your wording.

Yes, that is the commercial that shook me more than anything. I think because in all honesty, it looked like a commercial for beer, or something like that, and the way it was worded at the end, shocked me.

Z.

December 17, 2003
3:23 pm
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Cici
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well lotsa girls are on birth control, but as we all know birth control does not protect against stds.

I don't understand why there aren't more options out there for people to have sex without transmitting disease...I mean, there is in other countries - I read an article recently, but there is a lack of that kind of research in the states. Oh, wait...the Christian coalition and right wing politics. As if ignoring the issue will make it go away.

Or, the ludicrous hope that children will just learn to be goo, for god's sake, harharhar

December 17, 2003
4:03 pm
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gingerleigh
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I must be back in the stone ages... how are there ways for people to have sex without transmitting disease?

December 17, 2003
5:23 pm
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arwen
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I wonder what would happen if our society shifted the focus of sex with a partner to emotional/spiritual gratification from physical gratification--and placed the emphasis on physical gratification on masturbation? I mean, sure, we can all say that sex with a partner is for physical gratification, but how many times do you have to "practice" to get it right? How long do most women go without having an orgasm until they feel comfortable with their partner? How many of us would say (I for one...) that the most satisfying aspect of sex with a partner is not the orgasm, it's the intimacy.

What would happen if we put an equal amount of responsibility on men as women for "protection"? It seems like there is always a subtle message that it is the woman's responsibility. Even if we say that the women have most of the power, well, then we have to recognize the fact that with that power comes responsibility! Why aren't we teaching our young men to protect themselves and their partners by using condoms? Why do we tend to see the issues of STD's and unintentional pregnancy as "women's issues"? There is usually a partner involved when an STD is transmitted, or a baby is conceived... Young men have power, but we seem reluctant to give them the responsibility that goes with that power.

These are societal issues that, ultimately, are not gender based.

Arwen

December 19, 2003
7:13 pm
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Molly
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I am realizing that I am on a power trip, a woman's empowerment trip. I want women to take responsibility for thier power, and ladies we have it. Men ---- they have to pay,$$$$$ and that seems to be their only consequence, and that is a heafty couple of years, but nothing compared to the emotional, physical, responsibility that MOST women bear, but IF the woman took responsibility for her well being, hmmmmm her education, her financial stability, her health, her reality, ie, what its costs to get on the mommy track, and yada yada yada.... Ok, the men too, the boys, should think about their consequences.... but a woman can say no, and if it continues, it is rape, but do most women say no, hell no..... Sick as it seems we are worse than most third world nations, and go figure with the education out there, and just like GL states, we still smoke... it will never happen to us, and although I was flippant regarding condoms in the rest room discounted, I was marketing,

December 19, 2003
7:25 pm
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Cici
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Ways to have sex without transmitting disease? Mutual masturbation. There's research on different kinds of condoms using different types of materials. Durex, for example, is a latex derrivative that is thinner than latex without being more porous. Do I have to go on and post links for you?

December 20, 2003
1:23 pm
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arwen
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What I am trying to say is: If we continue to place the majority of the responsibility on women, it feels like we are letting men off the hook.

So they have to pay money. How many men have a realistic understanding of how important their role is in the life of the child they fathered? How many men understand that a check in the mail does not make a "daddy"?

In a lot of ways, the rhetoric of women taking all the responsibility for their sexual safety feels very similar to societal ideas around domestic violence. A woman becomes pregant and we want to know how she could let it happen. A woman is battered and we want to know how she could let that happen.

Men have responsibilities. The more we take on for them, the more we enable them to ignore their pieces of the puzzle.

And I am thankful every day for the men in this world who already "get it"...

Arwen

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