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Nice guy
March 2, 2006
12:57 am
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Everyone has different values in life. What I believe could be so different than someone else. I could never judge anyone by the way that they live because I do things that some people might think are terrible also. As for what I believe : Religion seems to help some people and almost look down on other people. If you don't fit into a certain mold of certain religion you are left out and I don't think that is right. I don't know what happens when I die. I just try to follow some rules from the Lutheran church that I grew up with because that is all I know. I don't think that I will get to heaven any easier if I do good deeds. One thing that I do believe is if I believe in God and ask him to stay in my heart that makes me feel good inside. It is hard to explain but if I follow some simple rules like not having sex before marriage it doesn't mean that I will get to heaven by doing that it just means that I feel good about myself. I feel like I can give a part of me that no one else can have except my wife. Everyone will stumble at some point of their life, like I did with that woman, but if I can give myself to someone in the future feeling like I am only giving myself and not 8 other women that I have slept with, I would feel good about myself. I could stumble again but I am only human and can't predict what will happen in every situation. All I can do is my best.

March 2, 2006
1:19 am
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Free2choose, Hi how are you? I mean Hi Erica.
I like your honesty. I don't look at you in a bad way if you want to have sex with someone that you love. I know that the church can be very judgemental. I personally don't know what is right or wrong and why would I have the right to say what is right or wrong. Just because I am attracted to women doesn't mean that it would be right for me to say that you can't be attracted to women also. This is a serious question. Have you ever looked at a man and thought that he was attractive or have you always been attracted to women. Did you ever wonder what it would be like to be with a man? I hope you still want to answer questions. Some questions might seen a little weird but I would like to learn what life is like for you so that I can look differently at people in the future and be a better person. I will try to just ask one or two questions at a time. Thank you Erica, I think that you are a nice person.

March 2, 2006
1:42 am
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Worried_Dad
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There is also a family of Chrsitanity called Esoteric Christianity that does not see "sin" in the same way that modern "mainstream" churches do.

In that system "sin" is more about lack of integrity than "breaking rules." From that perspective, an honest, loving, promise-keeping person would not be considered to be a "sinner" regardless of their sexual behavior.

Esoteric Christians are more concerned with honoring the spirit and teachings of Jesus than with honoring the rules of any particular church.

The "rules" of that faith might be summarized as

"Love God. If you would Love God, then Love each other as I have loved you, and Love yourselves as God loves you. If you do those things you will be Loving God and you will be Holy."

Notice that according to the Bible, Jesus did not condemn people for their sexuality.

Notice that Jesus did criticize people who make a big deal of their piety, and DID get pissed off at hypocrites, Pharisees, and people that used God's name to make money.

March 2, 2006
4:37 pm
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Worried_Dad,
You have a good point there. So are you saying that as long as I love this woman that my having sex before marriage is not somthing that I should have guilt or shame over?

March 2, 2006
5:00 pm
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Hi nice guy,

Well, I was really trying to answer your question about religion, and pointing out that even within Christianity there are different takes on this issue.

Not to tell you what you "should" do or not do...

Personally, I suggest that it is better to reserve shame or guilt for behaviors that are truly unethical or harmful--as feelings of conscience.

You have to honor your own integrity and if your own integrity tells you that you must reserve sex for marriage or for deeply commited relationships then violating your own moral code will cause you pain.

But in general, the way to go is to be committed to

1) Being absolutely honest--telling the microscopic truth.

2) Making and keeping agreements with great care.

3) Relating with respect and acceptance.

A good person who is well-intended, honest and well-behaved is a good person.

March 2, 2006
9:32 pm
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Hi Worried_Dad

I have only been on this site for a couple of weeks and have had such a good response from very knowledgable people. You are very wise. I have thrown out the guilt factor that I have been carrying around for years and decided that nature will take it's course and to stifle my feelings for a woman is not the route that I want to continue with. I don't think that it is wrong to show deep affection for someone outside of marriage anymore. I am healing as I write this. I got the monkey off my back once in for all and am going to enjoy the benefits of being in love with the right woman.

March 2, 2006
9:38 pm
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Erica, I will be gone this weekend fishing. I wanted to say hi. I don't have any questions for you now but just wanted to say I can understand where you are coming from and I can support the feelings that you have on life and relationships. Be your own person and cherish the ones you love.
Talk to you Monday night.
Nice Guy

March 4, 2006
7:47 pm
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Kathygy,

I did some more research into the subject of adultery in ancient Israel and the Ten Commandments.

I was wrong in one point: I'd said a man and woman had one chance to have sex outside marriage. The man had more than one chance, apparently.

The Mosaic law says that a man, if he had sex with an unmarried woman, had to marry her. It didn't say anything about him being married already or not.

There's more to this that I don't care to delve into. Polygamy was a part of their culture, though it may not have been universally practiced. I have very, extremely potent feelings on this topic. I don't want to get into it or I think I'll explode.

{I'm sure a lot of people had sex anyway.}

Just as they do today outside marriage. Nothing has changed, laws or no laws.

{According to the catholic church if I have pre-marital sex it is a mortal sin and I would have to spend ETERNITY in hell for this.}

It's not a mortal sin. It can be forgiven.

I've thought more about your saying sex in a committed relationship is okay. How would we know if a relationship is committed or not? Would it happen when the the guy says, "Sure, I'm committed to you babe" in the heat of passion?

Would they have some sort of ceremony to signify they're committed?

How would they both know they're committed to the relationship? What if he is but she's not, or vice versa?

AT least with marriage, there's no question if two people are married to each other or not. They either are or they aren't. They don't get the privileges (for example, sex) without the responsibilities (which don't need to be listed here; we know what they are).

God cares about keeping sex inside marriage because children are often born from sex. He wants them to grow up in a stable household -- hence marriage. He wants the parents to be in a relationship in which they have responsibilities that can be enforced if necessary -- hence marriage. He wants the parents to not be free to leave for whatever whimsical reason one or the other might have -- hence marriage.

I know people can get divorced, but at least it's harder to do that than to break up a "committed" relationship.

Seeker

March 11, 2006
5:12 am
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free2choose
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Seeker, you said,

"If it makes you feel better, the wicked, even Hitler, won't be damned to hell for all eternity. They'll be damned to hell only until the end of the Millenium (roughly a thousand years from now). They'll then be resurrected and live for eternity in a kingdom that's far more glorious than this present earth. Far more glorious"

WHAT the hell does that mean and where did u get that from????

Free

March 11, 2006
5:23 am
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free2choose
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Mr. Nice Guy, you asked:

"This is a serious question. Have you ever looked at a man and thought that he was attractive or have you always been attracted to women. Did you ever wonder what it would be like to be with a man?"

I have actually been sexual (willingly) with 2 men. The first was my high school "sweet-heart", the second was a guy I dated in college. The first guy I dated all through high-school. He was a really safe guy and did not push me to do things I did not want to do, which was why I could stay with him for so long. I was "straight" in high school, but really not because I was, but because I knew no other way to be. I did not know any gay people and I had always been told it was bad or a sin, so I really hid my feelings for girls and felt ashamed.

I was with the second guy after I had had my first experience with a girl. I knew I REALLY liked being with the girl but I was still REALLY hung up on gay being wrong and wanted to make sure it was me who was gay and not just that it wasn't the first guy I was with. But with the second guy, sexaully and emotionally it was the same, unenjoyable.

There are LOTS of guys I find really beautifull and attractive. I can very much respect the beauty of a mans body. I just like to look at the from afar!!! LOL.

Sexually and most important, emotionally, I find that women are what really fit for me. I don't know how to explain it, it just is, you know?

Hope that helps. Sorry it took me so long to reply, when I go home from work I rarely get online.

Talk to you soon, hope you had a great fishing trip!!

Erica

March 11, 2006
5:25 am
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Worried Dad:

"Personally, I suggest that it is better to reserve shame or guilt for behaviors that are truly unethical or harmful--as feelings of conscience.

You have to honor your own integrity and if your own integrity tells you that you must reserve sex for marriage or for deeply commited relationships then violating your own moral code will cause you pain.

But in general, the way to go is to be committed to

1) Being absolutely honest--telling the microscopic truth.

2) Making and keeping agreements with great care.

3) Relating with respect and acceptance.

A good person who is well-intended, honest and well-behaved is a good person"

WOW!!!! For the first time I think ever, I totally agree with you!!!!!

Very well said and totally inspiring!!! Thanks.

Free2choose

March 11, 2006
9:28 am
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HI ERICA
I CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE AT. IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY TO BE WITH A WOMAN AND THAT IS WHAT FEELS RIGHT FOR YOU THEN IT IS BETTER TO BE HAPPY THAN DO WHAT EVERYONE THINKS IS RIGHT FOR YOU TO DO. I HOPE I CAN FIND SOMEONE SPECIAL MYSELF. FOR ME IT WILL BE A WOMAN BUT I AM HAPPY FOR YOU.
ONE OF YOUR WRITINGS YOU SAID THAT YOUR MOM SAID IT WAS BAD TO MASTERBATE. THERE ARE MEDICAL WRITINGS THAT SAY THAT IT IS ACTUALLY GOOD FOR YOU. I HAVE DONE IT SINCE I WAS A KID AND STILL GOING STRONG. LOL
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU STILL TALK TO GOD BUT I DO BELEIVE THAT HE LOVES EVERYONE NO MATTER IF THEY ARE STRAIGHT OR GAY OR BISEXUL.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING GAY. I JUST MET A WOMAN THAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO ONLINE AND MET HER WHERE SHE WORKS. I DIDN'T SEE HER PICTURE AND KIND OF GOT TO KNOW HER ONLINE. WHEN I MET HER IN PERSON SHE WASN'T WHAT I EXPECTED. SHE WAS CUTE BUT I WASN'T REALLY ATTRACTED TO HER PHYSICALLY. DO YOU THINK THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET ATTRACTED TO HER IN THE FUTURE OR ARE FIRST IMPRESSIONS USUALLY RIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO BEING ATTRACTED TO SOMEONE PHYSICALLY? I DON'T WANT TO HURT HER BY LETTING HER THINK THAT I AM ATTRACTED TO HER. ERICA, I RESPECT YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. I WILL CHECK BACK LATER TODAY TO SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT. I RESPECT YOUR OPINIONS. WILL BE OUT OF TOWN NEXT WEEK SO IF I DON'T VISIT NEXT WEEK YOU WILL KNOW WHY.
DAVE

March 11, 2006
11:19 am
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sorry, I didn't mean to use capital letters. I forgot to take them off. I wasn't yelling.

March 12, 2006
12:03 am
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Mr. Nice Guy...(((Dave)))..that's my Dad's name 😉

When I met my current girlfriend, I thought she was cute, but not like, drop dead hot, you know. There were certain things about her, physically that I really liked, like her hair and her smile. The more I got to know her as a person, the more beautifull she became to me, simply because of her beautifull spirit. Now I think she's the most beautifull woman in the world! And nothing's really changed about her physically, just my perception of her.

BUt I think also that physical attraction is important. I mean, you have to like what you are looking at, you know.

Really, it's a totally personal decision. You need chemistry along with that great personality, you know?

Ask yourself, do I like her personality and think she is cute enough to try to get to know her better and see what develops? Or, if I go ahead with seeing her do I feel like I am settling for someone I really do not want? Because you really should WANT the one you are with, you know.

Good luck, keep me posted on what you decide.

Hugs,
Erica

March 12, 2006
3:16 pm
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Hi Erica,
I am so glad to know you as a friend. I think that you have wisdom and I respect you. You are the first gay woman that I have got to know and I think that you are really a cool person. Wish I would have known you when you were still dating guys. lol
You have given me a new outlook on gay people that I would have never had before. I used to be uncomfortable around gay people because I didn't understand. I am very comfortable with you and I feel like I am getting to understand the way that you feel. I like you. You are my friend. I can't label you as gay or whatever anymore because you are a person and shouldn't have labels put on you. You are more than a label, you are my friend. I am going to be out of town for the week so maybe I can talk next weekend? I will start a new thread if I can't find you. Your words today have really helped me. I will date this woman for awhile and see how it goes and make sure that I am not just settling but make sure that she is someone I could spend many years with. Thank you Erica and talk to you next weekend.
Dave

March 12, 2006
10:44 pm
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Thanks Dave,

I really enjoy talking to you too!!

And I must say, you have helped me alot too. You see, I must say I have a bit of a prejudice agaisnt men. Not because I am gay, but because I have suffered a lot of abuse at the hands of them, as have alot of women. I tend to view most men in a very predatory light, and streiotype then alot as abusers or predators.

Talking to you, having you be sincere and respect the boundaries that I set, it really helps me to believe that there really are "Nice Guys" out there.

So see, we can learn from eachother.

Next weekend is my weekend off, at home, so more than likely I won't be on very much, if at all after Tuesday night. But I'll be bac and I'll give you a holler!!

Take care and have a great week!!!

Erica

March 18, 2006
1:22 am
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Hi Erica!
I am glad that we can learn from each other. I am sorry that you and other women have been abused by some of us men. You know, there are a lot of men who are not that way. There are good men out there. Just have to be at the right place at the right time.
I feel like sometimes it is hard to find a good woman. I think that you are a good woman.
I do have another question. Hope I am not making you feel uncomfortable by asking this. I don't know how to word this so I'll just ask.
Was there an event or a series of events that led up to you becoming gay? I mean, did some men do something that hurt you so bad that at one time you enjoyed being with men and then the events just turned you off to men? Or have you (always) felt that you liked women better or felt more comfortable with woman?
I feel comfortable with you. I hope you feel comfortable opening up to me.
I will be out of town again till next Wednesday or Thursday. I am siding a house. Would like to hear back from you when you can visit. You are my friend. I will be around this weekend. Will check back over this weekend. Talk to you soon,
Your friend,
Dave

March 18, 2006
2:21 am
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Hi Erica,
I have been reading your comments on some of the other threads. Before I started visiting with you and asking questions, I used to think a lot differently about gay people. I didn't understand and didn't choose to understand the lifestyle that is different from mine. I have always heard about gay rights and didn't want to know anymore. I can see now that you and many other people have been treated wrong. You deserve health benefits and marriage, if that is what you choose. You should be able to go to any church that you want to worship in and not have to hide your way of thinking. I know that isn't possible as of today but I think that some day you will have your rights. I am so happy that you are thinking of starting a family. I agree with a lot of what you have said on the other thread. I wish that I could take away some of your pain. I know that you are a very nice woman and could really enjoy visiting with you for hours. I can see that you know the bible very well. I don't care what anyone says, you are loved by God and he will welcome you with open arms. I think that deep down in your heart you believe that God loves you and that it doesn't matter what anyone says about how you live your life. God made you and your partner and you will be happy with your life. I am happy that you have found someone who you can share life experiences with. I hope that I can be that lucky some day. I hope you don't lump me in with the rest of the straight guys. I am not a preditor out to have some quick fun with a woman, I am really searching hard for a woman who I can share my life with just like you are sharing your life with your partner.
There are a lot of people who don't agree with how you live your life but sometimes you just have to say to yourself, "who care" and just live your life to the fullest. Who cares what someone else thinks. Be happy with yourself and other people will see how happy you are. I would like to see a smile on your face. I bet you have a very pretty smile.
Sorry, I'm rambling. I just wanted to say that as a straight man I support you. You have really changed my way of thinking. Thank you Erica.
Your friend,
Dave

March 18, 2006
2:53 pm
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Erica--

Don't get hung up on the specifics of the Catholic Church--I'm a 42 yo lesbian and was raised Catholic. However, there is a new Catholic Reform Movement that deals specifically with people that want to worship their God without having to feel guilty about being gay, having been divorced, etc... Find a church in your area that welcomes EVERYONE. If God is all forgiving...he will accept everyone...even those priests that have been molesting children forever...

March 19, 2006
12:49 am
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ERICA, have you thought of writing a book so that other people know what your life has been like? I know that you are a very intelligent woman who could share some good thoughts through a book that would help many straight people understand what it is to be gay. I know that you have changed my attitude completely and now I am not uncomfortable around gay people because I have knowledge that I didn't have before or was too uncomfortable to ask. You have helped me so much and I thank you for that. Erica, you have a writing talent that not many people have. I think that people would be very interested in what you could tell them and it might also be a healing step for you also to just get it all out on paper. You have such a carisma for words that I think you could be a very good author and it could also help many people understand something that they might not be comfortable with. Seeing things on tv is not enough for people. They only see one side of the story and I believe that you can tell your side and give people the knowledge that they need to hear. If I wouldn't have read some of your story from some of the other threads I would not have really understood what you have gone through in your life. I am you friend and I truely believe that you could make a difference in many, many people's lives. If people knew your thoughts on this subject there would be a less of a gap between people. I think you can make a difference with your words. I know an author. She writes christian books but if you need to get started with someone to contact to get a book going I am sure that she could help you with finding publishers. If you think that would be something that you would have any interest in let me know and I could talk to her. She is my step mom and a very nice woman. She is 80 years old but very spry for her age. I don't know how to get the information to you without breaking this sites policies, but maybe you could think of a way that I could get you the information without breaking the rules. You have a special writing skill and a good story to tell people. I hope you think about it. I would like to hear your story and other people would have an interest and should know. Hope to hear back from you. I will be out of town after this weekend till Wednesday. Have a nice week.
Your friend,
Dave

March 21, 2006
1:44 am
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Hey, Dave...

Good to hear from you. I'm glad you made it back safe. man, you are really a busy guy!

As to your question.. I think you asked"Have I alsays been gay, or did somehing happen to turn me this way." WHEW...that is a really big question. I'm not sure it has a simple answer. But first I want you to know that the answer to this question is MINE...I do not speak for every gay person out there. This is MY story...

I do not know how to separate my sexual abuse from my sexuality, because I was molested so young, I have no way to guage the person I was before that. I know that before I was raped at the age of ten, I had "boyfriends", crushes on boys. But I also had crushes on girls. I was "in love" with my 5th grade teacher!! LOL. Ms. Metiva.... 😉

In high school, I dated a boy from freshman year till I graduated. I also had "crushes" on other boys. I also was deeply in love with my best (girl) friend, we had a very deep, very real relationship (asexual). I really freaked out when she got a boyfriend and started spending more time with him then with me. I did not realize until later (after I realized I was gay), why it hurt me SO much to see her with him. I was so jealous!!!

I have thought alot as to wether or not I was "born" this way or did what happened to me "turn" me. The honest answer is, I don't know. I think probably it was a mixture of both, honestly.

Have you ever heard of the zoologist Alfred Kinnsey. I had a theory that sexuality is mot at all the black and white, gay straight, that people think it is. That it is more like a sliding scale, with one end being STRAIGHT, and the other being GAY, but that most people fell somewhere in the middle.

I TOTALLY agree with that.

I think I was born with the capacity to LOVE. And that is really all that matters.

Do I think that my abuse affected my sexuality. YES, I do. But it has affected MY ENTIRE LIFE!!!

I hope that answers the question. It's really the only answer I know...

And, I'm sure there are ALOT of really decent, nice guys out there. I try really hard not to judge them all. I really would love to not have to be afraid of what men can do... to not have to feel the degradation that women endure... But untill this world seriously changes, it is just part of being a woman. Yes, because of my history, I may be alot more sensitive to it, but Dave... Did you know that 1 in 5 girls are sexually abused before they reach the age of 18, and that 1 in 3 adult women have been sexually assaulted in their life time. And that is just what is reported. That is not to mention the little ways everyday that women are broken down, reduced to little more than what is between their legs!!! Dancers in the rap videos, celebreities on the covers of the magazines wearing nothing but a bikini, the double standard between men and women, the stud and the slut.

It HURTS, Dave! And I do not know where to aim that, except for at men. SO it is really hard to see the good in them...to allow my self to hope for it, to seek it out.

I mean, I don't walk around alday thinking, oh, he's a rapist oh, I hate men... But I guess deep down, there is always that knowledge that belief, and so it does hold me back, prevents me from I'm sure having real friends in men.

And being a lesbian makes it easy, because there really aren't many guys around.

I know it is sad. It kinda sounds pathetic and really judgemental saying it aloud, and I hope that I can grow in that area. I mean, in alot of ways, I have, but I know there is still ALOT of work ahead!!!

I know what you mean about being single and looking, waiting for the right one to come. I was really blessed in finding J as early as I have. We have a friend. A straight friend, G. She is so great, yet she always finds these guys... They all either want sex, or they want someone to take care of them. They have issues. None of them seem to be on the same page as her. I've watched her for years now, just searching, waiting... She is really great, I hope she finds the right guy, who ever he is waill be REALLy lucky. She gets sad somtimes, being alone. It is hard to watch.

I do write. I write poetry. I have all of my stuff on my computer. I've thought about trying to enter it in competitions or see about publication, but I have heard it is really difficult, and I'm so busy with other stuff.

I have thought about writing memoirs. Maybe I will one day.

I have written several articles about being gay, one was published in my local newspaper right around the time that all the amendment stuff was happenening here in Louisiana. It is something I would like to do more of.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, though, and I am really glad that my story and my words have helped open your mind and your heart! I wish I had that effect more often, but as you can see from the other thread...it just does not happen alot.

Oh well! Maybe one day!

Talk to you again soon!

Hugs,
Erica

March 21, 2006
1:49 am
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4me,

Well, 4, I'm not sure where you live, but I am down here in the south, in Louisiana, and there are no catholic churches that I know of that are accepting of gay people.

Actually, the pope is not, so I'm not sure how any church claiming to be a catholic church could be.

Just the other day on the news I saw that the Catholic adoption agencies in Mass. were shutting down specifically because they did not want to be forced into adopting out children to gay couples!!!

And Mass is the most accepting state (legally) in this country!

So I don't know?? You could tell me more though, I would appreciate it.

And welcome, by the way!! 🙂 Nice to meet you!

Erica

March 24, 2006
7:36 pm
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Bumpin for Dave....

Hey, how goes it????

E

March 24, 2006
10:51 pm
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Hi Erica.
You know what? You are the most real woman that I have ever met. You tell things the way that they are and I like that. I agree with you that Love is all that matters. I am not trying to change you. If you are comfortable with your life I really do support you. I did not know that so many women were raped or taken advantage of. I feel so bad about that. I am sorry that you had to go through that.
I would never ever think of doing something like taking advantage of a woman. Thank you Erica for opening up to me. I have found a good friend, you of course.
If you would like to write a book some day you can contact Family Life Mission. That is my Step Mother who is a writer. Her name is Ingrid. I can't give the web address or I will get in trouble with this site but try a couple of .coms or orgs and you will find her. Tell her that one of her step sons' from Minnesota said to talk to her about writing a book on your life and she could call me and I could get in contact with you that way if you like. She could help you find a publisher. I really do think that you have a story to tell and that is very important. Ingrid has a very open mind and would help you with your writing career if you would like to try it. Even if it is hard to write about your past I think that it would be good for you. I also think that many people need to know how bad things are with how men are treating women. It might make some people think. I think you could have a movie in the making some day. I really do. Actually, Ingrid is making a movie of her life right now. I think that you should contact her. I really do. If nothing else, start writing about your life and when you are ready, bring it to a publisher. Men have to know what we are doing to woman where it is hurting them. You have opened up my way of thinking and I can't thank you enough Erica. You are a true friend.
By the way. I have a lunch date with a woman on Saturday. Wish me luck.
Dave

March 24, 2006
10:57 pm
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nice guy
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By the way Erica, I like you. You are my kind of woman.
Dave

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