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Needing GOD's Help
March 12, 2009
4:15 pm
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bereft
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Free2, it seems to me you are saying that until Christians become more like the world it's okay to be intolerant of biblical Christianity. how does it seem to you?

g_g, yes, but with a righteous anger.

grace and peace

March 12, 2009
5:26 pm
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Then I'd like to place a righteous kick on the crotch of God.

Its a righteous kick.

March 12, 2009
5:44 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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The verse may suggest otherwise guest, many versus suggest many things to many people, and all verses were written by people.

Again, God is tolerant of all, it is people who are intolerant. People who are jealous. People who are angry. It is people who comprise bad as well as good. But good and evil are separate entities.

IMHO

FYI in case ya didn't know bereft, free2choose is an open homosexual living in the southern Bible Belt. And guest was a Muslim.

peace

March 12, 2009
7:01 pm
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bereft
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thanks, treehopper

however, God is not tolerant of sin, but people are.

interesting mix of folks here. makings of a good joke....a Christian walked into a chat room with a homosexual and a Muslim and asked, "why can't we be friends?"

grace and peace

March 12, 2009
7:41 pm
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bevdee
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tree_hugs,

I don't agree with this statement - "Again, God is tolerant of all"
The Bible, which is supposed to be God's word, and what many many people base their opinions on, is full of references to sinners, and those who go against God. I know you and I have had this discussion before, but the story goes - The bible is supposed to be the word of god. And the wisdom of Jesus. Judaism and Xtianity are based on the OT, and Xtianity is based on NT.

Fear of angering the jealous vengeful god, of going against the community of God, and the punishments for that is peppered all through the Bible, and Jesus reinforces that with his teachings in the NT. Everlasting life for belief- or not. Or not = hell in some of the older not-edited versions of the bible. The Church - for years the only church, the catholic, used excommunication as a threat to keep people in line, to conform to community standards. That meant being shunned by everyone completely.

I wonder how many times the word righteous is in the Bible.

March 12, 2009
11:30 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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"treehopper" cracks me up! One of my favorite shows growing up was Kung Fu. That IS a pretty good joke as well.

bevdee, my God IS tolerant of all. Not only tolerant, but accepting. This God comprises all that is good in all lives.

I hear what you are saying about Christianity. That religion was written by people for people. Their motivations are questionable, as are the words they wrote. The word of God I would certainly trust and follow. The word of God as written by people- that's a whole other issue.

Somewhere in existence there is peace, harmony, serenity. A calmness that comes with the absence of anger, greed, jealousy, ya know- bad stuff. That's where God's at. And I'm gonna find that place. At some point.

That place can't BE inhabited by an angry vengeful creature because that would be a frightful place absent of peace, harmony, and serenity. that would be the BAd side of the fence.

peace

March 12, 2009
11:34 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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Im sorry for the loss of your dog bevdee. Knowing we've done the right thing, I've myself found to be of little comfort. I'm really sorry.

peace

March 13, 2009
12:05 am
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You know there's an issue about tolerance in the Bible when a whole CATEGORY has been dedicated on the Skeptics Annotated Bible site:

March 13, 2009
12:06 am
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bevdee
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Tree-

Thanks - bout the dog.

March 13, 2009
1:48 am
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bevdee
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Tree_hugs

Your God, your belief, is different than someone else's belief of God, would you agree? Some people can conceive of hell, you can't. Can you not reconcile what the bible says about hell and what the bible says about god? It seems to me that you rejected part of the teachings, modified your belief from what many Xtians are taught and believe. I reject most of it- except what I think of as the common courtesy teachings - 10 commandments, do unto others... etc. But that's not unique to the bible - it's in most religions or philosophies. I believe that the people who fear hell, those that deny parts of themselves that are not "righteous", are the pushiest about projecting and instilling their fear -based beliefs on everyone else, and condemning those who don't believe as they do. Because they are taught by frightened people to be afraid.

My belief is that if there is a path to enlightenment, it is within me, and I modify that truth as I learn more. I also wonder if we are all really yearning toward the same thing, but calling it by different names. My belief is also tolerant and accepting - as long as those who have other beliefs don't interfere with the freedoms I am guaranteed by the Constitution.

March 13, 2009
2:14 pm
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bereft
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"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God" (Rom. 11:22).

arise calmly, treehopper. and brush the indignity off your pants. you fought blindly. a sickly maiden could have beaten you. the dust of truth swirls, and seeks its own cracks of entry into your heart. listen. what do you hear?

do you noy realize that the god that you pray to is the god of your own making? you make your own will your law, and do that which seems to be the best for you. you have written your own religion for yourself. isn't that the same reason you reject Christians and the Bible? therefore, by your own words, treehopper, your motivations are suspect.

do you not hear the grasshopper at your feet? one can be broken by a strength outside, greater than himself or a weakness inside, which he cannot understand. do you see a man wise in his own eyes? there is more hope for a fool than for him. "trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight."

men write books to exalt themselves. they do not write a book to damn themselves. men write books of human accomplisment where whey can save themselves. they do not write a book that places salvation beyond their own abilities. they do not write a book with a personality like Jesus Christ.

there's a place they call heaven where there is no sin, suffering, sorrow, or pain, no persecution, division, disunity, or hate, no quarrels or disagreements, no disappointments. psalm 16:11 says, "In Thy presence is fullness of joy; in Thy right hand there are pleasures forever."

it is your response to this one book and what this book says that God requires that determines your eternal destiny and nothing else determines it. what you do with the Bible determines heaven or hell. it is not easy. it is more difficult than you snatching away the pebble from my hand.

grace and peace

March 13, 2009
6:11 pm
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"do you noy(t) realize that the god that you pray to is the god of your own making? you make your own will your law, and do that which seems to be the best for you. you have written your own religion for yourself.

Mirror mirror.

Yes. The Roman Catholic Church did what was best for it. What was best for it's corrupt diocese.

The Church was the tool created to put the final nail in the coffin for humankind, true peace, harmony with nature and enlightenment. Rome's culture melding with pagan spirituality to control and enslave the masses was what formed the church and christianity as we know it today.

Rome was based on Hierarchic rule with a huge slave class. If you read Roman history you will see the parallels in the bible. Especially with family structure. This is where women began being dominated and subordinated by men.

Greek Mythology was the basis of Roman religion.It only makes sense that when the Romans moved North_ West they created another type of Mythology to finally conquer the people. They combined Egyptian and pagan belief into their new religion.

That is exactly what the bible is.The melding of Roman culture with Pagan. Made up by the Roman Catholic Diocese to obliterate all other pagan and gnostic religious sects. It was done to harness and control humans and get their MONEY! Bevdee is right. Excommunication was the result of anyone who rejected the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican's strict rules of conduct.

Worse, they were murdered and publicly executed.

Does anyone realize that before the Romans invaded the Middle east part of their lifestyle was about brutality and open executions? The Coliseum, and other forums for Gladiatorial entertainment were the places where upper class spent their down time. They were originally quite hedonistic and took their culture into the middle east and Europe. It was about conquering and finding more riches. Rome had a huge appetite for everything; Food, sex, art, theatre, class distinctions and slavery supported this hedonistic life, and slaying human lives for entertainment was almost a daily thing. It was a truly brutal imperialistic society. It represented all that was good and evil.

(hmmmm, wonder where that element of the bible came from?)

When The Roman invaders were confronted with the gentler lifestyles of the pagan's it took centuries of warfare before they began to incorporate the pagan beliefs into their own. But the Romans changed it from pagan to symbols that were man based. again mirroring their Mythologies: Zeus, Poseidon, Jupiter to name a few.

God was created in the image of man.

Rome had an affinity with Egypt because the societies were very similar. They did join forces for a while but eventually Egypt fell under Romes force.

Christianity is the melding of Roman culture( the brutality) Pagan and Egyptian belief. It was a systemic collapse of a whole spiritual system through enforcing brutality.

Did anyone know that the cross was used in ancient Rome as a weapon of Torture way before Christ? They used to strap people to the T, lash them in public and leave them for days exposed to the elements, without food or drink.

When the Romans reached the middle east they used the PAGAN version of the cross to torture it's people. maybe it was still the Roman T cross. I'm not sure. It was a very cunning tool to suppress the people of the region. Diabolical!

The Cross represents the four hemispheres, and the astrological wheel to the Pagans. Most renditions had a solar disc in the centre of the cross and the stylized version of this astrological cross, with it's solar disc is still used today. With Jesus's head in the place of the solar disc..whatever!

The cross isn't even an original Cristian symbol. It is borrowed from pagan belief. It's an astrology symbol representing the cosmos and earths relation to it.

It took over 1200 years for the Romans to achieve their supremacy over the rest of what we now know as Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Europe.

It was done by incorporating all of the regions religious belief systems into a new one and enforcing it with exclusion, torture, death and excommunication. One that included the lust for blood, money and power.

This is not God if there is one.
Everything on this planet co-exists symbiotically. Mutual respect and everything has it's place where it thrives. Light and Dark, Life and Death.

Humans hope to shun and avoid death. We fear the dark and the creatures that exist within it. We are full of fear and refuse to live in harmony with all living things. We destroy what we don't understand or we take more than what we need.

All because of the stories and beliefs we make up. All because we think we are better and rule over this earth.

March 13, 2009
6:22 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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Oh bereft you are so comical! As for being beaten by a sickly maiden- well I didn't know I was fighting a battle! Now that's funny! Not only that, I wouldn't have fought her, I would have taken her in and nursed her back to health as best I could. because you see, bereft, THAT is goodness.

Oh, bereft-hopper, I most certainly follow my heart. That is where the answers and path to goodness lie. - within. Good thing it's not centuries ago as you surely would have burned me at the stake as a gnostic.

My ex husband and ex to be are vengeful, angry, jealous creatures. I sure as heck am NOT going to spend eternity with a creature such as you describe. WHO WOULD? Jeepers, marriage to such a creature was bad enough. ...ETERNITY? ugh.

Can you not see bereft-hopper, that what you describe as heaven is anything BUT???? How you describe God is HORRIFYING? That the people who follow your God would do so out of fear and in pursuit of selfish gain? I don't wanna spend eternity with creatures like THAT either! And I suspect I'm not alone in company.

You push people away from a wonderful thing bereft-hopper. Learn the ways of Jesus, and draw them near. The gospel according to St. Thomas is a great start. You will have to search within your heart to understand. You will have to find the courage to let go of fear. And you will have to find the strength to tear down those walls you have built between yourself and others- others who you share your life with, others who walk beside you but you cannot see them, and others who hold the keys to doors you don't even have an awareness of. In the process, the aloneness that radiates from you will fade. You will no longer appear as a frightened and lost child, and people may begin to listen to what you have to say.

peace

March 13, 2009
6:32 pm
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tree_hugs_4life
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bevdee-

What you say about my beliefs is true, but I'm not alone in them. And my beliefs change continually a yours do. I really like what all ya said. Mostly: we all most definitely yearn for the same thing, and the path to enlightenment is within each of us.

peace

March 13, 2009
6:49 pm
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http://www.shadowhills.org/ind.....8;id=10031

"The Me God Sees" - I hope you all will listen to this.

This sermon is from the website of the church that I attend. I really think that past experiences affect one's concept of God, and much misunderstanding. In my life, I have only experienced love and acceptance from God. Any condemnation that makes its way into my head are either old tapes from childhood re-playing themselves or me, or just not comprehending how accepted I am by God. When I read about how people are so angry at God, I do understand where that comes from, and I just would like to hug all of you and tell you it's ok. God isn't the problem here. I wish you could understand that. What is the problem is misunderstanding who He is, and why He came.

Love,
omw

March 17, 2009
12:54 am
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tree_hugs_4life
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Good sermon OMW.

peace

March 21, 2009
1:43 pm
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OMW, I couldn't agree more. Thank you for sharing.

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