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MsG:::::
June 21, 2010
12:00 am
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CraigCo
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((M))
Thanks for the Father's day wishes. Had a great one. Drove to Banff
in my new (well, relatively) vehicle where my son bought me an
amazing dinner at a very classy restaurant. From appetizers to
deserts it was SO delectable and so it should have been for 160
smackeroonies. It's only about a 90 min drive from here. I should
do it more often really. (save the fancy dining) lol

How bout y'all -
did you & your son give D some pampering?

It's late now
& I've got to sleep. See U around! 😉

Cc

June 21, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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Wow...really ma? I suggest you go back and reread your
posts...seriously, you don't see it

Amazing...

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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bevdee
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bfg,

I think Libs gets
a bad rap because discussions about controversial (emotional)
subjects are encouraged here. Disagreements aren't discouraged,
either. Hence, debate. There are people who come to the site, raw,
hurting, that might leave when they think a site is overrrun with
arguments. There is also the perception of disagreement thing. With
a person who has suffered from abuse, it's not uncommon for them to
see someone who disagrees as someone who hates them. You're for
them or against them. Conflict is scary to some people, and those
who come to this site for help are directed to Support, not Libs. I
didn't figure out Libs for a month. I've seen a lot of people go
from Libs back to Support to get support for what they think
happened to them on Libs. Or they just talk about it in the
threads. This place bleeds back and forth.

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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I
wonder what happened to msg...she kinda of just went away or at
least that is what it appears of here, Msg where are you? We have
no talked in a LONG time its seems, I hope everything is ok with
you, miss talking to you!

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Hi ((
Hep, bevdee, CC, BFG, ALIEN!![yo stranger but familliar,HA!]and
MA))

I have an
emotional hangover.ha!

First Hep! The
Fathers Day BBQ was 'ok'.Just more of the same. My Dads hearing and
vision aren't good. D picked him up and they watched the soccer
match. Thing is, when the matches were over we turned soft music on
and conversation was practically nil coming from Dad except
depressing stuff. A nieghbour died, he had to explain the whole
scenario ( the second time) He's milking the "poor old man" thing.
I asked him what he's been doing ( walks, social stuff, his meals
at home, etc.) to stay well. My sister controls everything. Very
unhealthy enmeshment. I took him into the backyard for fresh air
and show him around. He was totally preoccupied and not steady on
his feet. So we went back to the house. Our deck was sweltering hot
until shade hit near dinner time. When my son arrived home: my dad
hugged him, cried, said he missed him, wanted to "see" him more,
then didn't ASK my son ANY questions?! No mention of missing his
B-day either. My son stood there after the hugs and was wondering,
"that's it?" He was beaming then his expression sank when the
conversation stopped. He is always gracious. He also didn't know
what to say. Is that his job?

Son looked
uncomfortable in the silence, lack of effort. It was my Dad showing
up with his "poor me card" and not much else. Sure he's Old and
ill, but he's still the same way he's always been. ( on a deeper
level i see the N issues playing out, and my Dads part)

Fathrs day!? I've
just gotten to the point i've tried for so many years to get his
love in a healthy way, and it will never be. I spent years under
his roof, contributing more than i should have so I can't fake
appreciation either. I'm disappointed and disgusted with what my
son is being subjected to. Hard not to go there when my kid is
involved. I made my Dad a nice healthy meal, served him, tried to
make him comfortable and make conversation and i got more of the
same i always got. My IL's gave my son some $$ before leaving, and
my Dad did too, only 'cause he saw them do it and had to match
them?

Conversation with
IL's flowed through dinner, and we joked around. They arrived late
due to a tournament they were in.

It's REALLY hard
to put my Dads inadequacies aside. How my son gets pretty much what
i got all my childhood, from THEM< ( lack of nurturing communication and no accountability for the neglect) So I'm just trying to do thr right thing without all the unhealed stuff take over and drown me. ;0/

It was a good and
bad day.

This weekend is
his B-day HOOPLA! I am not doing as my sister wants or showing up
to help with preparations. SHE Planned the whole thing without
consulting me and is spending a lot of $$$. I just won't pretend or
have her in charge of me anymore. D and i are giving her $$ for the
catering, will bring a bottle of Vodka to help stock the Bar.We'll
arrive 1 hr before dinner and leave early.

We're trying to
keep our time concentrated on dad and some relatives that are here
visiting. Have them by for a BBQ. I'm still dodging rain with work
so my schedule is kindof crazy.

Bottom line. MY
rules with sis, I am not engaging with her unless she makes a move
toward healing dialog. I have enough of my own support that my sib
problems don't effect me so much anymore. I'm not begging for love
anymore, or being scapegoated, that's for sure.

((CC)) u must've
felt great this Fathers Day! Banff is quite the place to go! and u
had no transport worries ahahaha! Banff would be a nice place to
"breakdown" tho,hehe.

StronginHim77...
bevdee pretty much stated the facts about AAC Libs and
support.

Our disagreement
starts with religion first. That doesn't determine all my feelings
toward u tho. The incident we are speaking of started in the
Religious practice thread. Some of us were saying that evangelical
Healing ministries ( like Benny Hinn ) are a Hoax, fake and prey
upon the weak and suffering. You made some comments about CC being
raised with no manners, ( insinuated his upbringing was lacking and
he/WE, people who behave like that "aren't raised properly" are
"low class" AND you called him childish.)

Then others chimed
in that those comments were uncalled for. Thats' all.

The thread was
questioning religious practice and was open to differing opinions.
It didn't stay within debate and got personal. You apologised for
the comments Then you went to the support side and stated you got
"tarred and feathered"...and you're not going to the LIBS anymore
because YOU took such a bad beating??!!

No. People just
let you know you were out of line by making personal comments. I
posted to you on support about blaming us and playing victim. I
stated none of us invade pro-religion threads. We are not guilty of
what you are saying. Pro religion threads have been in Libs and
none of us "atheists" invade or disrespect that.

Keeping a
disagreement and lifestyle choices in perspective?

At least you are
here with an olive branch, looking for clarification or
understanding. THAT says a lot and i appreciate you stepped out of
a comfort zone. Sd is choosing to blame rather than look within and
own her part of what happened over here.

Constantly posting
about one side being "worse" than the other is unproductive and
unfair. It reflects all the unhealthy things people want to hold on
to, to prop up their weakness's?! It also paints others as "Bad
Guys".

I see it as a
disagreement and am opting to let it go. However it doesn't sit
right with me, being blamed and comments being made that paint me
and others as a bad people overall.

"this place bleeds
back n forth" I'll say. and it makes it difficult for some of us to
discuss our life issues.

I REALLY
appreciate ya'll being her for me.

Also i have
another issue at home. My son may not graduate. He had his last
exam today. Teachers are trying to help him tie up lose ends. He
still needs 10 volunteer hours.

I remined him, and
tried to keep him on track since months ago. He kept secrets, and
avoided.

I'm not posting a
lot of this , Just trying to deal with it here, and i just have
little time on top of managing my Biz.

ME ME ME!!!! not
really. Just TOO MUCH going on right now.Me and THEM! The rainbow
and all shades of grey!LOL

Be
Well!

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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glittered when he walked
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wtf
happened here?

Thanks for the
Father's Day wishes.

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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StronginHim77
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MsG
-

Thank you for
clarifying that the offense in question dates back many, many moons
ago (if I follow you correctly) and did not take place on the Gulf
Crisis thread.

I appreciate you
clearing up my confusion.

- Ma

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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StronginHim77
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P.S.
I also agree that Bevdee's posting (Libs vs. Support) contained
alot of good insights.

- Ma

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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(((Misguided))) come back soon! your be missed!~

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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bevdee
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I
just think if religion, or any other belief is such a force in your
life, it kinda defines you, you might be better off not
participating in debates about it, unless you are

re-evaluating your
teachings.

trying to convert
the world, one forum at a time. My opinion.

But I also think
we cling to other beliefs about our world as firmly as some do
religion. Like - atheists might cling so hard to the belief that
there is no god, and get rattled when people try to share their
Christian beliefs. Back and forth. Xtians don't corner the market
on stubbornness. Some people prefer to believe that the govt tells
the truth, others are sure the world will end soon. They get
rattled when there is disagreement about their belief. Cause
they're sure. It's easier to think in our comfort zone, and human
to want to put finite answers to unanswerable questions. I think
that's why they invented algebra?

Threatening to
leave always makes my whiskers twitch. I let em twitch. I learn
from watching what people do when that happens. Let me introduce
myself, MsG- Hi, my name is Bevdee and I am a Lurker.

I see the
threatening to leave as a form of emotional blackmail, or a way to
get attention. Either to the individual threatening, or away from
the topic, that is not going the way the person wanted it to.
People that threaten to leave get a lot of sympathy here. Threads
started to them, responses. Others that don't see grandstanding,
may instead see the threat as a cry for help and try to give it to
them. At the very least, an argument ensues, and there is
interaction. My mom did that all the time. Or she would leave me by
ignoring me, but I could hear her talking about me on the phone,
over the fence, or to my stepdad. Or she would threaten to make me
live with my daddy. Whichever she used, the threat was there - "I
WILL BE GONE. I wll be gone, but there will be aftereffects. you
will feel the loss. You will lose me, you will be cussed,
discussed, and raked over the coals. You will be wrong and I will
be right. And everyone will know it, I will see to that.
There will be parties, family functions that you will not be
invited to, but you will know about, because your sister can't keep
a secret. But I will still drive by your house to see when you're
home and not home, and ask your friends about your life, talk about
you so you know what I am saying about you. I will look through
your mail so I can know what's going on with you. I would read it
if I could get away with it." People band around her, people who
love her, because she cries. They hurt FOR her.

It's funny - she
was doing that 10 years ago. She never made good on those threats.
Never. I was the one who left. My sister learned it from her, she
does it with her daughters and her bf. I suspect many people do
this because it was done to them by their parents. Learned
behaviour, and no one ever called the perpetrator on it. They don't
know any other way. I mean, you don't have to be a raging bpd to do
it. I've done it myself a few times. I've even done it on purpose
after I knew what it was called, and what it meant to
me.

So MsG- I don't
know if your whiskers twitch for the same reasons that mine do, but
... I think I know how you feel when you talk about people
threatening to leave.

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Hi My
Name is Msg, and i don't know what "god" is. I am not certain
however i feel certain that how most religions describe "god" are
untrue and created to control the masses. Religion wants to control
us for it's gain. It does this by blocking people from true
knowledge, using shame, fear, pain and guilt.

Real spirituality
wouldn't bring suffering, repression of healthy expression, and
death upon others.

I don't mind not
knowing but I do MIND when some "knowing" dogma fills my head with
self doubt, shame and guilt, simply for being a woman or human
being.

Yea. threatening
to leave..or they do when you gave as much as you could......and
there was never much of an indication something was
wrong?!

It turns into my
problems or I am not as bad off as you are and i just want to HURT
YOU first.

Power struggles
pure and simple. Somebody has to lose.

Withdrawing
support, and TIME OUTS are tools used to discipline children.
Children are told "if you behave in a way that is disrespectfull
and harmful to others and yourself, you get TIME OUT, but I come
back and love you when you learn"

Am I learning? Do
i deserve all the ST i got and what i get to this day from my
family? Then there are the adult relationships I formed that were
my way of working out my family issues. I chose unreliable,
unsupportive friends. ( I can't fix them, just myself, and finally
had to realize i deserved to be LOVED and supported)

What if we all got
timeouts from parents who were very unbalanced and cruel? What if
it wasn't about working together, and respecting eachother, but the
parents had to control everything and everyone? Nothing was at
their expense and they made damn sure it would be at someones.
Someone who was vulnerable and unable to protect themselves. A
CHILD!

What if your
parents are actually children who never grew up?! The burden of
fault gets downloaded on their kids and passed through
generations?

I don't want to
carry on the disease my family keeps passing down.

My son is
struggling to graduate. I won't threaten abandonment or do it.I
won't avoid confrontation either. I told him yesterday he's living
in a fantasy world of Video games with his friends. He denied it
but I insisted "oh yes! You are 19 and put more effort into your
fantasy games than your REAL life. You have game days set up, spend
a lot of time talking about the imaginary scenarios, AND weapons.
You are neglecting Self care, making the transition from child to
adult ( getting a job, career) graduating in a timely
manner...."

He states "it's
hard out there. There are no jobs"......there are SOME and u don't
get one if you play video games or hang around with friends with
shitty attitudes.

I told him I won't
keep you from being with your friends but are your friends keeping
YOU from a good future? THINK about it, and figure out if they are
worth ALL the time you give them.

He lives here,
contributes. It's my job to stick by him, guide him and keep the
lines of communication open. It's my job to not project my
upbringing on him either. If i am displeased i don't just stay
quiet and let him flounder about in the silence?!!

None of this
Freeze Out, or "i'm going to grab all the attention i can get at
the "club", pretend all is fine, and leave my kids wanting for
guidance" !CRAP! my family doles out?

I'm twitchin' like
crazy the last few weeks!LOL

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Another thing.

I got a call from
my addict friend yesterday who i have mentioned before. He chain
smokes all his life, is an alcoholic ( functioning) but added crack
to his roaster about 4 yrs ago.

That did it. He
lost his job, has been in NA, relapsed so many times, his health
has spiraled into almost dieing recently.

He called from the
Hospital Isolation unit. He has Pneumonia, possibly TB, is being
tested for cancer also, was bedridden for a few months at home due
to a hernia. He had pneumonia during that time so obvioulsy he
wasn't ready for the operation.

In THIS condition
he calls me. so i ask. "Are you smoking still?" His reply? "i got
down to 10 a day and now i'm on the patch and sneak a cig at night
in the ward" Hmm, sick at home and smoking during all of that?
Still smoking in Hospital? Most of what he's going through is pure
self harm NOT an accident.

He spent a lot of
time explaining how he had a hernia, then pneumonia AND said he
hadn't relapse for the last yr. He's spinning excuses. The
cigarettes ARE an addiction too. so is the beer. He only stopped
using crack. Says he drinks "moderate" but I'm not around to
see.

I think he's
hiding the emotional stuff that has caused him to be an addict. He
eluded to his mother being physically innapropriate with him when
he was a child then snatched that back and never mentions it. I
know his mother and she's a MESS! an emotional bloodsucker and
clingy.

I don't think he's
being honest with himself or anyone. Now he's addicted to NA and
AA. Besdies his struggles all he talks about are the
meetings!!!

His vital signs
stopped due to this last bout of pneumonia. They had to revive him.
Now it's isolation til they figure out if he has TB.

I wonder, if a
person gets THAT sick, dies and still opts to smoke Tobacco ( the
contraban poison not the taylor mades) Is that something i want to
be around? That isn't hitting bottom YET?!

He reached out
from isolation and all i could do was listen and say "take care of
yourself, get better and get your life back! Let me know what the
diagnosis is when it comes in" ( He's a Genius, computer Software
tech by trade. and wants to get back to work)

I can only support
his good decisions. I hate how addicts try to make you feel
heartless, spin and lie, AND they only call when in a desperate
situation.

I am being tested
from ALL sides, all at once.

@[email protected]

Thanx
Universe!LOL

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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It No Longer Matters
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{{{{MsG}}}}} You sound like a pretty good mother and I think
there is enough guilt associated with parenting that "good enough"
IS good enough. I sometimes wonder what my own daughter will one
day tell her therapist about me. LOL

I was one who got
my feelings hurt over here and I posted when I was leaving that I
was not saying I was never coming back that I just needed to take a
break. I tried and think for the most part succeeded in not
carrying it over to the other side. You know that I self identify
as a Christian but as far as I can remember I have never banged you
over the head with it. If I have let me assure you that it isn't my
style in real life and I can't think what would have made me do it
here. I have friends of all sorts of faiths and some that are
atheist or agnostic. I remember being exposed to other religious
thought in college and thinking wow aren't we more alike than we
are different. I tend to get along better with agnostics than I do
with full blown atheists. Agnostics are willing to say they may be
wrong. Most atheists I have dealt with seem to be angry about
something. But that's just the ones I have dealt with personally,
you may have had a totally different experience. I can't see
spending precious energy on being angry all the time. I am a
Christian and I am willing to admit I just might not have all the
answers either. I have just found it easier on me not to discuss
religion too much here. I have many other places I can do that
besides here.

Peace to
you.

Bitsy

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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Hi
((Bitsy))fancy hugs

Thanx for the
mothering compliment. You do a great job yourself! You're not
opting to escape and are just trying to do the best ya
can!

It's hard not
having $$ knowing our kids are subjected to peer pressure. Gotta
keep up appearances, AND keep our kids grounded in
reality.

My son came home
after his exam and said he had some volunteer work for tomorrow and
maybe the next day. He has til next Wednesday to complete his
tasks.He communicating with me so i guess he doesn't have a grudge
over what i said yesterday.U never know where they'll take tough
love.

We all get our
feelings hurt but is it worth a final exit? Not always. Time will
tell. Give it time and sort through everything.

Religious fanatics
are similar to some angry athiests.

Religion can
seperate and it takes a lot of effort to close that gap. Some will
never close it and it's all adversarial.

I don't see you as
a fanatic at all.

I don't know can
be the best option at times and knowing we are more alike than
different? I opt for those choices myself!

So i guess that's
all sorted out!LOL

Be
well!

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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I
don't care for pot stirring and try not to do it. I also refuse to
have my pot stirred but that is a whole nother story. I was sick
all weekend and describing my symptoms to a friend she said MY God!
You aren't pregnant are you. I cracked up. Call the Pope if I am.
Don't know whether to laugh or cry over that one!!!

Bitsy

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
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((Bitsy)) You could be reacting to benzene in the atmosphere.
Combined stress n worry and exposure to the Norwalk virus? ( 24 hr
flu)

I bet a lot of
people are starting to feel sick physically and mentally where you
are. How can they not?

June 22, 2010
12:00 am
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Bitsy...we all need breaks from here from time to time...who
cares what people think! I feel we must do what is best for us and
if people do not underastand that...well too bad! Lol" honestly
that is their problem to deal with...not ours...last time I checked
this was still a free country and if your in need to revive...then
sobeit!

Msg...I get your
post on religion...110 percent!

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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I
grew up with an angry father. Probably why he ignored me, too busy
being angry. But as a child we don't understand that. We just think
it's us. But it's not. Even when we become adults we think THEY
should realize how they were/are and make up for that. But they
don't. LIKE YOU SAID WE CAN'T CHANGE THEM, WE CAN ONLY CHANGE HOW
WE DEAL WITH THEM.

Since I'm an adult
now, like Bitsy said, I wonder how my kids will view me. I wonder
how my father's parents treated him? What did he go through to make
him be so unemotional? I'll never know. Even if I asked my father
about his upbringing, he would never reveal anything negative about
his parents.

My 14 yr old
daughter has already eluded to the fact that she doesn't have a lot
of respect for her father. She says things like-- "he should be
able to pick me up, he doesn't do anything anyway". He's been out
of work for OVER 2 years now.

You know MsG, your
son isn't 18 yet. There is still some time yet to impose your will
on him regarding the video games and how he spends his time. My son
almost didn't graduate either. He always seemed to just get in
UNDER THE WIRE. I "sat" on my son too. Got him through. Just
barely. BUT I prepared myself for the worst. Repeating his senior
year and all of the embarrassment and humility that goes with that
. I let it go. It was his responsibility. He knew what he needed to
do. And I told him that. So I stepped back. Of course there were
rules. But I know he was up at 3am playing those video games on
line with people all over the world. But I had to be up in the
morning myself. Occasionally I would go in there and shut it down.
Literally pushed a button, disconnected it and walked out of the
room. I didn't wake him up for school either, like in the past. All
I could do was be there for him if he fell. I think they know when
we're DONE. He realized I wasn't going to bail him out anymore (not
that you are) and finally got on the stick. But *I* was prepared
for him not to.

When he turned 19,
that was a whole other story. As you know (or maybe not) I had to
kick him out. We have a better relationship now, but I found out
today that the loser gf he's with physically abuses him. I always
knew she verbally abused him, but I didn't know about the hitting
(not that the verbal abuse is acceptable). He's complained to me
and his father about her. Both of us have tried to tell him to stop
seeing her. But he won't. He thinks he can fix her. Gawd, he's a
codie like me. His self-esteem is non existent. And I think they
are planing on moving in together. And there's not a damn thing I
can do about it. If we say anything, he just digs his heels in
further. Once again I am preparing for the worst. Obviously he's
going to have to hit bottom with this girl before he gets it. It
makes me so sad. This is my son. If I try and save him, he won't
learn anything and really I can't save him anyway. This time
though, he's going to fall, I can feel it. But I'll be there when
the phone rings.

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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bevdee
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My
mom does this thing - she isn't angry, its just what she does. It's
habitual. OK - I dont engage with her or my sister. In order to see
them - to be able to come to town, (6 hour drive with PTO taking,
pet-sitting arrangements involved) see my daddy and my nieces, I
have had to interact with them. I refuse to be in a situation where
I have to explain to those young ladies why I won't come to dinner.
So. I have had to tell both my mother and sister that I will not
comment on any issues or incidences between them. That's how I keep
the peace. Not that they don't test my boundaries. They
do.

I wanted to
surprise my dad on Father's Day by popping in to his church. Not
tell him. But it's a six hour drive - I couldn't leave from home to
do it. I needed a place to stay Saturday night. I told my mom what
I was doing, asked her if she would have room for me, WranglerButt,
and his daughter. We'll call her the DeerWhisperer because she
calls wild deer to her. I asked because my nieces live there, but
often go to Chicago to stay at their dad's, and I thought they
might go up for F Day. I told Mom that if they were going to be
there, we could rent a room. She said it would be fine, everyone
was going to Illinois. So. The plan was for us to sleep there,
leave Sunday morning, drive the 90 miles to his church, surprise
him, hopefully not give him a heart attack, and take him to lunch
after church. Spend the afternoon with him, then on to the lake to
sleep on Mom's husband's sailboat. This was for the DeerWhisperer.
I was afraid the trip would be so boring for her.

I overslept Sunday
morning. I woke at 8:15, and I wanted to leave at 8:00. I woke
Wrangler, told him to get DeerWhisperer up, we needed to hurry. He
told me she didn't want to go to church, so he would stay there
with her. I had no time to argue, cajole, remind him of the whole
point of the trip. I threw my stuff together, ran down 2 flights of
stairs to the bathroom, and left from there, without saying
goodbye..

I didn't call
WranglerButt all day, till after I left my dad, late in the
afternoon. I did this on purpose, because Wrangler, I mean Butt,
didn't have his cell phone, doesn't know my # by heart. So he
couldn't call. (insert smirking emoticon here) I wanted him to
wonder when or if we would go to the boat - cause he really really
wanted to do that. Anyway. I called at 3, and my mom answered the
phone. Which is a headset with a speaker phone. What she does is
wear this thing, not tell the person she is talking to they are on
speaker. It's gotten me in trouble a couple of times in the last
couple of months. But I didn't remember. Anyway, I talked to
Wrangler, told him about the service, but didn't say a word about
being torqued that he didn't come with me. Then I asked him if he
thought it was too hot to hang out on that boat. I heard my mom
answer the question in the background. I was on
speakerphone.

Aw man, she got
me. I didn't even think about it. I'm just glad I didnt say
anything.

I knew that she
did that because she thought I was going to light into WranglerButt
about not coming with me. She knows how I hate to be stood up, and
this really did fit in that category. 10 years ago, I would have
spewed. She thought she was going to get to hear it, and because
she had, would have felt compelled to talk to him. About me. Then
to me about me and about him and about Daddy.

And on and on and
on and on. Not that she wasn't nice to everyone. She was!! The Deer
Whisperer is her new best friend. But, I found out later from
Wrangelr Butt ... when he got up Sunday morning, she asked where I
was, and he told her I overslept and was going to be late to the
service. She asked him why he didn't go, and he told her he wanted
to stay with DeerWhisperer. He said all she said was," Ohmagod." So
she was waiting. She hears everything that goes on in that house.
She knew.

So, on the six
hour drive home, I thought about the way she constantly,
insiduously, stirs a flat or simmering pot. She loves it. Sometimes
it's just the most benign little comment, designed to touch a nerve
in someone, to spark some controversy. I have seen her start shit,
then sit back, looking shocked as if she had nothing to do with it,
watching the drama that ensued, then jump in and mediate, so she
looked like the hero. She's really good at it. Home Sweet Home.
.

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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After
I actually learned about the christian religion...and did not just
parrot out what I been taught since childhood...I began see
something very evil, twisted and corrupt...it literally broke my
heart... Msg...you could not be more correct on what you wrote...
We are still fighting holy wars today!

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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BAREFOOTGIRL
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Religion is a control tactic that works to keep people in their
place. When you study it...you begin to see history repeat
itself... When I say it broke my heart...it nearly killed me to
wake up out of my sleep...my brainwashing...but I am glad I did...
Cause the truth set me free and also will not leave me living a
lie.

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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StronginHim77
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I'm
not into "religion;" I'm into relationship. Religion kills.
Relationship nurtures and encourages.

- Ma

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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MsG,
did you feel the earthquake where you are? Are you near
Ottawa?

June 23, 2010
12:00 am
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MsGuided
Golden Horseshoe.ca
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Hi
Guys.

Very tired today
and i feel overwhelmed reading the posts.....yer all touching on so
many subjects. I'll do the best i can.

BFG.I don't want
to talk religion now. Sorry. It's all residual stuff brought up due
to past conflicts with Bitsy and Ma. I've said enough in the past
and i have other things i want to deal with now. I think were
willing to just let our differnces go and concentrate on
"relationships'. LOL

Well Hep.I
mentioned my son a few posts back and it seems your timing is
perfect. Thanks for taking the time. :0)

My son is actually
19,LOL ( yea time flies and this is a TMI forum)I was ok til i got
home. D is off for soccer and had a friend by, and the phone was
ringing today. My sons Teachers wanting assignments.

I THOUGHT i would
come home to dinner but the calls between all these guys left D on
edge. It wasn't til I called my son that he started telling me
everything.

MY son was
supposed to graduate and it appears he won't. He was doing well
with his CO_OP, (an A) and the last term but dropped the ball 2
months ago. HA! (when i started working a lot of hours) While i was
working My X and D had it out tried to get son to go to the school.
He went out early this morn. He told me yesterday he was
volunteering but why volunteer ( he needs 40 hrs to graduate, and
he has 30) when he knows his courses are incomplete? He's been
Lieing to me.

As to his
character. He's always been responsible. Helps around the house,
does his own laundry, gets himself up and out for school. He
doesn't stay up late playing games. His gaming is mainly 2
weeknights and on the weekends at his Dads. He goes to his fathers
and i think thats where it all goes down the toilet. He doesn't
have his Sony here and my PC doesn't have a Graphics card anymore (
he can't play video games on the PC) Dad is kindof a chaotic person
and his place is like a drop in centre. Now our son uses it as a
drop in centre for his friends. When i had words with him the other
day he said he didn't know what he wanted to do. He was near tears.
Seems he's having second thoughts about being a mechanic or maybe
he knew he was going to fail and couldn't tell me. NO excuse. I
don't like this cowardly avoidant crap!

I can only remind
him so much to get his work done. It was 3 yrs ago he decided to go
into mechanics. Considered welding and Body work. I wasn't
dictating. Just want him to find his identity.

The last exam he
had was yesterday and that's IT! At his age it IS up to him. ONLY
yesterday he told me he wasn't sure about the apprenticeship/career
choice and it isn't as oif i haven't asked.....maybe he knew he
failed and has to make up before starting the apprenticeship. He
was kindof bottled up.

He's avoiding us
all today cause he knows i will be very disappointed. We all
started arguing.

So how much do we
blame ourselves? I am balming myself alot! I should of been
tougher, or more loving, had more money, had a more supportive
family, bla bla bla...but lots of kids come form really bad
situations and they do VERY well!

There isn't abuse
in this house so why beat myself up?

So once he
surfaces we have to discuss what his plan is now. If he doesn't go
to summerschool, or repat the 2 courses next year he's got to find
a job.His Dad is a horrible disciplinarian and like your daughter.
My son has little respect for him. I can see real blowouts between
them in the near future IF my X does as i told him to. NO more
friends over. No money, NOTHIN but get out there and finish those
credits or get a job.

19 is the age. I
told him that. No more coddling or breaks.

I feel really bad
for u that your son is with a that GF. I don't get it?U did
everything for him and he goes for the opposite of u? Low self
esteem is the issue with both our kids. They show it in different
ways. I am also concerned about a few of his friends. One is on
Welfare. ;0/ No violence amongst his peers just too much passive
"anarchy" and pure escapism.

One outside factor
that can't be ignored is there aren't jobs for teenagers like when
i was growing up. They're not stupid and are wondering about their
futures. I think he's saying "why bother?"

I got one thing to
say. Boys look up to their Dads. My X is a pathological liar, is
very inconsistant with his time ( lots of lates) he doesn't have
conversations with his son. He dictates and talks about himself all
the time. has to be the centre of attention and is always showing
off. They argue aLOT! no respect.

Maybe D hasn't
been a great influence. Do i want to go there? Since i'm kindof
blindsided I'm looking for answers and BLAME is coming into play. (
blaming myself too) Pure reactionary emotions.LOL

(Tomorrow
tomorrow, time will bring reason.)

I don't know right
now what to think or do until my son opens up, if he will. I'll be
there. what else can we do? It's up to them.

What i can't
beleive is he got such good marks, a wonderful recommendation
letter from his Co_op ( mechanic shop he did an "internship") They
just loved him and even gave him money when he was done.

What
happened?

No. we didn't feel
the quake. It was from Ottawa to Toronto apparently.That pretty
much is where the Canadian shield runs.Just above Lake
Ontario.

Bevdee. Gawd That
all sounds so complicated. I got 2 words. Busy Body. A woman who
exerts her power through relationships and drama. she expects the
worst of u too. Can't stand those gossipy busy body types who do it
to tear down. Great if everyone is loved ( My aunt is a positive
busy body, lol)...but u know.

It isn't fair u
always go THEIR way and they pull ya in so many directions. Good
that ya aren't letting them.

I'm doing the same
thing with my family. I have decided that after this party it's
just my Dad I'm seeing. My sister is starting to order me around.
She barkin' to the wind. I'm not jumping or responding
anymore.

It was so hot and
humid today. Was about 35c ( over 90f) and it wasn't so bad til i
got home and heard about my son. I was actually in a good mood til
that!

THUD.
;0(

June 24, 2010
12:00 am
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Hepburn
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(((MsG, everyone)))

I started to blame
myself as well. But you know what? We can only do the best we can
with what we had/have to work with. At some point our kids have to
decide what they are going to do with what we've tried to instill
in them. All teenagers TEST. They test themselves, us, authority,
their friends, EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. If not outwardly, then in
their head.

To me, this is the
hardest part of being a parent. Changing diapers, running after
them, carpooling, homework, etc...PIECE OF CAKE! It's letting them
FAIL or get darn close to it. That's the hardest.

Of course we don't
give up on them. My children are never going to be able to shut me
up! lol

I do have to
disagree with you about the jobs though. There's something out
there for him, but when one spends all their time shut in playing
games, there's no opportunity to meet new people or for people to
meet him. So he could spread the word that he's looking. There's
probably a lot more out there then you realize, but unless he's out
there, how would he know? How would he know that Mr. Joe Blow down
the road has the XYZ business and would welcome a young person to
come and take inventory for him? Or someone needs a driver, etc.
I'm sure he must have an interest in something in addition to just
video games, that would get him "out there"?.

I tried to get my
son a job on numerous occasions. I work in an industry that feeds
on people just entering the job market. They call them Production
Assistants. We call them "Gophers". They hire 10 or more at a time.
I've been in this business for over 30 years, where nepotism runs
rampant. Do you think I could get him a job? Nope. I tried and
tried (and I know some pretty big people). I surrendered to the
fact that he needed to get it himself. So once again I stepped
back. I watched his pain. The friends he did have, would leave him
behind to go to a concert or to dinner, because he didn't have any
money.

He finally got his
job. And he got it by himself. His self-esteem ramped up
100%.

He has no positive
male role models. His father doesn't work and his gf's father is an
abuser.

With all the
problems my son is having, I'm grateful he's not on drugs or
alcohol or in jail.

Hang in there MsG,
I predict they will both be "turning the corner" soon. Of course
for us it's not soon enough! But we've got to be patient. It will
be in their time.

Now I feel like I
need to add a disclaimer:

But that is just
my opinion. The views of this poster does not reflect the views of
any other poster on AAC. This is subject to change without notice.
Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely
coincidental. Love,

Hep

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