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Love Said: More Teachings from the Heart of Islam
January 14, 2007
3:24 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Love Said to Me

I worship the moon.

Tell me of the soft glow of a

candle light

and the sweetness of my moon.

Don't talk about sorrow,

tell me of that treasure,

hidden if it is to you,

then just remain silent.

Last night

I lost my grip on reality

and welcomed insanity.

Love
saw me and said,

I showed up.

Wipe you tears

and be silent.

I said, O Love

I am frightened,

but it's not you.

Love said to me,

there is nothing that is not me.

be silent.

I will whisper secrets in your ear

just nod yes

and be silent.

A soul moon

appeared in the path of my heart.

How precious is this journey.

I said, O Love

what kind of moon is this?

Love said to me,

this is not for you to question.

be silent.

I said, O Love

what kind of face is this,

angelic, or human?

Love said to me,

this is beyond anything that you know.

Be silent.

I said, please reveal this to me

I am dying in anticipation.

Love said to me,

that is where I want you:

Always on the edge,

be silent.

You dwell in this hall of

images and illusions,

leave this house now

and be silent.

I said, O Love,

tell me this:

Does the Lord know you are

treating me this way?

Love said to me,

yes He does,

just be totally…

totally… silent

http://www.rumi.net/rumi_by_shiva.htm

January 14, 2007
3:40 pm
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Unfortunately, Rumi didnt know that Mohammed sex with 9 year old Aisha when he was 54.

Rumi was a partial Muslim (maybe you are as well). He did not believe in the hateful teachings of Islam. To be an accurate Muslim, you have to believe in all of what it says.

Rumi also didnt care to write in his beautiful poems that Muhammed encouraged people to drink camel urine.

How about Rumi talking about Mohammed saying that water is clean even if you put dead dogs in it?

---------

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0066

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

--------------

Did Rumi have anything to say about these stupid teachings of Mohammed? Do you, WD?

January 14, 2007
4:35 pm
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And you my friend, continue to confuse Islam with Mohammed.

January 14, 2007
4:59 pm
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Isn't muhhammid the founder of Islam?

What's the difference between the founder of Islam and Islam? what's the "confusion" that is supposedly taking place?

please clarify.

free

January 14, 2007
5:04 pm
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WD,

Yes, we must not confuse the act of terrorism with the terrorists themselves. Thats just WRONG and immoral and racist and what not.

How is Rumi a stronger authority on Islam than Mohammed?

January 14, 2007
5:05 pm
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Isn't that like taking Jesus out of the New Testament? How can Mohammed be separate from Islam? I don't understand either. I'm not asking this question to be difficult. I really don't know the answer.

January 14, 2007
5:08 pm
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I don't either, but would like to.

free

January 14, 2007
5:16 pm
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Mohammed is no more the founder of "Islam" than Jesus is the founder of "Christianity," or Buddha is the founder of "Buddhism."

January 14, 2007
5:18 pm
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"Thomas Jefferson" is not the definition of American Democracy either.

January 14, 2007
5:21 pm
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Sure about that wd? What enables you to make that claim? I think Mohammed is in fact considered the founder of Islam:

Heresy of Mohammed – The Founder of Islam, the faith of MuslimsThe Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed – Mohammed, a pagan who became a quasi Christian by establishing the religion of Islam.
http://www.trosch.org/bks/mohammed.html - 99k - Cached - Similar pages

January 14, 2007
5:31 pm
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Muhammad, Founder of Islam"Citing passages from the Hadith, the collected sayings of Mohammed, ... by his own account, the founder of Islam was often possessed by Satan. ...
http://www.hyperhistory.net/ap.....mmadca.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Who was MuhammadWhile the Quran is not a biographical work, it does also provide information as to the life and mind of the founder of Islam. The two ancient biographies of ...
contenderministries.org/islam/muhammad.php - 62k - Cached - Similar pages

January 14, 2007
5:33 pm
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MOHAMMED FOUNDER OF ISLAMDownload Flash Shockwave. MOHAMMED FOUNDER OF ISLAM ... Mohammed launched intensive programmes for the propogation of Islam (Islam means surrender of the ...
http://www.geocities.com/saien.....hammed.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

January 14, 2007
5:39 pm
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I think that the Apostle Paul is considered the founder of Christianity, though this is debated.

and Mohammed is considered the founder of Islam. Doesn't seem to be any debate on this.

free

January 14, 2007
5:41 pm
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Loralei, you wrote:

"Isn't that like taking Jesus out of the New Testament?"

Yes, exactly.

I will go even farther, and suggest, as a thought experiment we not only remove Jesus from the New Testament, but that we dispense with the New Testament entirely.

I submit that the wisdom and goodness of the (wise and good) teachings of Jesus stand on their own--they are wise and just without any New Testament and without even any Jesus. Some would say those teachings are self evident by pure humanistic logic.

Some say those teachings reflect Universal truth, the nature of God, the Universe and Mankind.

I think the strong teachings of Jesus illuminate the Heart of Compassion.

The wisdom and goodness of those teachings do not rely on the authority of a saint or martyr or the authority of a church or a leather-bound book.

Those good teachings are valid no matter who utters them.

And those good teachings cannot be diluted or perverted by actions or teachings that try to counter them. Screw Leviticus. The good and wise teachings of Jesus are better than Leviticus--and NOT because they come from Jesus---simply because there is more wisdom and goodness there--they are better, truer teachings.

And that body of teachings is echoed in spiritual traditions from every culture--including the oldest of cultures. The Great Truths of Christianity was being taught long, long, long before Jesus was ever born. Before Moses or any of the Pharoahs were born for that matter. It's called Perennial Wisdom.

So yes, when you encounter a culture and a tradition and you want to get to the heart of it, you can't rely on just this authority or that book or that church. You have to actually feel the material, and see how it connects with the larger body of human work, and how it connects with your own spiritual and esthetic instincts.

January 14, 2007
5:47 pm
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Amazon.com: The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion ...Spencer writes a biography on the founder of Islam., September 22, 2006 ... you are not Muslim, then you are an INFIDEL and must convert or DIE. That ...
http://www.amazon.com/Truth-Ab.....1596980281 - 145k - Jan 13, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages

hmmmmmmmmm.........

January 14, 2007
5:55 pm
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wd

wo do you think IS the founder of Islam?

free

January 14, 2007
6:02 pm
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WD

If Mohammed wasnt the founder of Islam, then are you saying that Islam would exist even if Mohammed didnt exist?

January 14, 2007
6:14 pm
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i think wd made a mistake here. Mohammed is the founder of Islam. I've been researching everything I can find, and did come across one, only one thus far, article that claims God is the founder of Islam-yeah whatever.

Nobody wants to accept the challenge this guy at the site I listed offers. Makes me believe people know something deep down that they just can't face. I suspect it's due to fear.

Now THAT's scary.

free

January 14, 2007
6:16 pm
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WD

Mohammed is the founder of Islam.

That means that Mohammed was the person due to which Islam was born. How? He claimed to receive his first revelation at the age of 40. Thats how it started.

We're talking about about Islam started and ofcourse Mohammed started it. WD, you're an I.

Some nice quotes from Peaceful Islam:

Bukhart 4:52:73
The Prophet said,"Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."

Sufism is NOT Islam, WD.

January 14, 2007
6:19 pm
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More peaceful teachings of Islam, the religion that spawns terrorists.

Hadees-e-Qudsi 16:14

The Prophet said that the martyrs will be sitting on seats of rubies very close to Allah's throne.

Bukhari 4:52:801

The Prophet said, "Allah forgave the murderer who later died in Jihad."

Tabari IX: 69

The Prophet said, "To kill the infidels is a small matter for us".

Bukhari 5:59:362

The Prophet killed the men of the Jewish tribe Bani Quraiza (some 600 to 800 of them) and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims All the other Jews of Medina were exiled.

Bukhari 5:59:285

Zaid was asked, "How many Ghazwat (military expeditions) did the Prophet lead?" Zaid replied, "Nineteen."

January 14, 2007
6:38 pm
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I've been doing some quick reading about Islam, because I basically know nothing about it. From what I have gathered so far, Gabriel spoke to Muhammed over a 23 year period, giving him the updated version of the bible. Since Muhammed was illiterate, his followers memorized his teachings and later recorded them. I'd say there was ample opportunity for individuals putting their own spin to this, just like the Bible. And just like Christianity, regional groups integrate their customs and personal beliefs into their interpretation of Islam. To me, it's like today's terrorists are not much different from the Inquisition or the Crusades. Evil people will use any excuse, including religion, to rationalize murder and mayhem. I haven't read the Koran, but since it's somewhat based on the Bible, then it not only contains the good stuff, such as love thy neighbor, but also the bad, such as bashing the heads of babies against walls and stoning women.

Religion of any brand has never made life better or stopped evil men from doing their thing. IMO, too many people use it as a crutch instead of trusting in themselves. I think anyone can find some truths, some wisdom in these books. But to follow blindly without separating the good from the bad, is just plain crazy. The hate and fear that fundamentalism (in any religion) promotes scares the hell out of me. "Imagine no religion..." I think that's the only road to peace.

January 14, 2007
6:43 pm
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Exactly, it contains both the good things and the bad - no doubt. A religion couldnt succeed if it only teached bad stuff. Success means, having lots of followers.

See if I'm going around teaching that people with nicknames "Worried_Dad" should be killed and that people with nicknames "Loralei" will go to heaven, I'm obviously up to no good and the "cult" I'm trying to teach should be stopped and exposed for what its worth.

January 14, 2007
6:44 pm
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Typo: if it only TAUGHT.

January 14, 2007
7:14 pm
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Hi Free, RE founders.

No, actually, there is quite a bit of debate about not only who "founded" Christianity and who "founded" Islam, there is also quite a bit of debate about what IS "Christianity" and what IS "Islam."

For example, there are schools of Christianity where the teaching goes like this:

After Jesus was gone there arose two major types Jesus schools. The first school, who might be called the friends of Jesus, who were people who actually had met Jesus and studied with him and who continued to study and teach and live as they had been taught by Jesus after he was gone.

The other schools, represented by the Apostle Paul, were top-heavy in their leadershipwith men who were greedy, selfish, scheming, lying sacks of crap who wanted to use the Jesus phenomenon to acquire wealth and political power. That is the group that founded the early church, which gave rise to the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, Protestantism,the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc. That is where the modern Binle comes from.

The Friends of Jesus School, who tried to teach the actual teachings of Jesus, rather than what would make them rich and powerful if they could convince folks Jesus said it, were persecuted crucified, burnt at the stake, etc, and basically had to go underground with their faith communities, passing teachings secretly, often small groups and through various "mystery schools."

To those "Christ-Ones" there are hardly any true Christians any more, and what is commonly called the Bible is not the authoritative book on the subject.

January 14, 2007
7:20 pm
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Hi Free,

Who is the founder of Islam?

Islam, like Christianity, was created approximately the same miment that the universe was created by God himself.

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