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life after death / near death experiences
April 16, 2007
7:11 pm
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BevDee.

I was watching a documentary showing the tomb of Abraham. The Building housing the tomb is divided into two walled of halves with the actual tomb of Abraham visible to Christians and Muslims through two separated grated windows.

Both these religions lay fervent and dogmatic claim to containing the word of God proclaiming their respective religions as being the only true religion. Both of these religions are at war with the other and require physical separation.

What kind of unconditionally loving, all powerful, all knowing father would allow such a state of affairs to exist while hiding from his errant children?? Only a father who did not exist as such - that's who.

Either one of those divine fatherly attributes must be missing or the alternative is that the divine father himself is missing. In regard to God, the latter seems to me to be the case.

You said:

"... I have noticed some addicts turn to god after they give up the chemical addiction. Like grabbing for a life raft in a sea of despair."

Yes ... this is certainly evident in all the 12 step programs based upon the original AA program. There is a desperation indeed in the 'rock bottom' experienced by the alcoholic or drug addict. Yes, there is a reaching for "a life raft in a sea of despair" at such times. Given enough time in AA, alchies invariably leave AA. Some drink again and die in despair. Others don't. They go on to live very meaningful lives without AA. I often wondered why they left AA. After 34 years of sobriety thanks to AA I now know why. Bill Wilson a cofounder of AA once said that he gets horribly embarrassed when members use AA as a religion. Well, pushing the existence of some God is making AA into a religion. Substituting the words 'Higher Power' goes some of the way to overcoming this problem. But the recitation of the Serenity prayer undoes that solution completely in my case. I feel terribly inauthentic and hypocritical in joining hands with little children in adult bodies and begging some imaginary God for serenity that I have not earned through making the difficult journey of self-discovery by turning inwards and doing the hard yards.

Carrying the illusion of the existence of Santa Claus is great for children. Carrying the illusion of a God who cares about the sick Alchie is great too - for a few years. Then the time comes to grow up emotionally, spiritually and psychologically speaking and put away the things of our childhood.

April 16, 2007
10:40 pm
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"or the alternative is that the divine father himself is missing."

Hmm- yep, I believe that's it, mate!

April 17, 2007
9:16 pm
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Regarding consciousness and the mind being independent of the brain functioning, I cite this one of many similar cases documented in a book called Recollections Of Death by Dr. Michael B. Sabom, MD. 1982(Pages 139 - 146)

NB
S: is the subject/patient and A: is the doctor interviewing the patient.

Please remember that the patient S: is lying on his back, eyes closed, an oxygen mask over his nose and mouth, right out of it in a full blown cardiac arrest with no oxygenated blood flowing through his brain which has shut down for all intention's purposes!!

------------------------------

CASE 4

Mr. S (I-32), a retired air force pilot from northern Florida, was 44 years old at the time of our interview in May 1978. Five years earlier he had a massive heart attack associated with a cardiac arrest and had had an autoscopic NDE. Our interview follows:

S: I had the arrest the following morning after the night I had my second heart attack.... I think I was sleeping. It was two or three in the morning.... There was no feeling myself that I was even having an arrest. I wouldn't even have known it unless all the people came around. I think I was probably asleep when the thing arrested. The first thing I remember is hearing Code Blue [another term for Code 99] on the intercom and I remember everyone running in.

A: Did you see people running in?

S: Yes. I think I saw them. I remember faces and the nurses and Dr. A, who was the internal medicine man at the time, who happened to be still there.

A: From where were you observing this?

S: I couldn't pinpoint the position. It was almost like I was detached, standing off to the side and watching it all going on, not being a participant ,at all but being an uninterested observer....

A: Did you notice anything else in the room besides people? What were they doing?

S: Well, the first thing they did was to put an injection into the IV, the rubber gasket they have there for pushes. I was getting a lot of lidocaine all through that thing, lidocaine pushes, 'cause I had an arrhythmia. Then they lifted me up and moved me onto the plywood. That's when Dr. A began to do the pounding on the chest, and it didn't hurt even though it cracked a rib: I felt no pain.

A: Did they do anything to your face at all?

S: No.

A: Did they breathe for you?

S: They had oxygen on me.

A: How did they administer the oxygen?

S: They had oxygen on me before, one of those little nose tubes, and they took that off and put on a face mask which covers your mouth and nose. It was a type of pressure thing. I remember, instead of the oxygen just being there, it was hissing like under pressure. Seems like someone was holding that thing most of the time.

A: Holding it over your face?
S: Right.

A: Could you describe how that looked?

S: It was sort of a soft plastic mask, light green color.

A: Was it attached to anything?

S: The hose going to the oxygen was all.

A: As far as you could tell, from where you were, would this mask have obstructed your vision if your eyes had been open?

S: Well, the way I was lying, the only way I could have seen would have been straight up, 'cause I was lying on my back.

A: Do you remember any of the other details that went on in the room?

S: I remember them pulling over the cart, the defibrillator, the thing with the paddles on it. I remember they asked for so many watt-seconds or something on the thing, and they gave me a jolt with it.

A: Did you notice any of the details of the machine itself or the cart it was sitting on?

S: I remember it had a meter on the face. I assume it read the voltage, or current, or watt-seconds, or whatever they program the thing for.

A: Did you notice how the meter looked?

S: It was square and had two needles on there, one fixed and one which moved.

A: How did it move?

S: It seemed to come up rather slowly, really. It didn't just pop up like an ammeter or a voltmeter or something registering.

A: And how far up did it go?

S: The first time it went between one-third and one-half scale. And then they did it again, and this time it went up over one-half scale, and the third time it was about three-quarters.

A: What was the relationship between the moving needle and the fixed needle?

S: I think the fixed needle moved each time they punched the thing and somebody was messing with it. And I think they moved the fixed needle
and it stayed still while the other one moved up.

A: Did the moving needle ever pass the fixed needle?

S: I don't think so, but I don't specifically remember.

A: What did the rest of the machine look like?

S: It had a bunch of dials on it. It was on wheels with a little railing around the thing, and they had stuff on it. And they had the two paddle affairs with wires attached.

A: What did the paddles look like?

S: Like a round disk with handles on them.

A: How did they operate?

S: They held one in each hand and they put it across my chest, and they seemed like they were squeezing both of them simultaneously.

A: Did you see how they made the machine discharge?

S: With the squeezing or pushing a button on top; I think it was like a handle with little buttons on it.

A: Did you see where they put the paddles on your chest?

S: Right.

A: What did it look like when they discharged the machine?

S: I could see myself jolt, but again, it didn't hurt like an electric shock should hurt.

A: Your whole body?

S: Yes.

A: And this happened how many times?

S: Three.

A: Did they do anything else in the room that you can recall?

S: He was pounding on my chest sort of like a sharp blow.

A: In the, sequence of things, where did this occur?

S: He gave the shock first, then he pounded, and then they gave a shock, he pounded again, and they gave another shock and somewhere around that time, I became aware I was becoming conscious and me being me....

A: Did you notice any other details?

S: Dr. A had on his air force uniform, the dark-blue pants with the light-blue shirt, and nurses had on regular whites that they wear. I remember a bunch of people were looking in from what they call the fishbowl. They had a big window between the nursing station and actual ICU itself and there was a little door right around the corner that came into it.

A: You could see through that window?

S: Yes.

A: You noticed people out there?

S: Yes. There were people watching.

A: Were they behind you where you were?

S: They would have been to my left and slightly towards my feet.

A: Did you happen to notice who they were?

S:. No, because all the people I knew real well were in the room itself around me....

A: Could you hear what they were saying?

S: Yes. The first thing was the monitor and there was a continuous noise. I heard them calling out watt-seconds on the defibrillator-watts or watt-seconds.

A: Was this scary?

S: No, not really. I was just detached. I wasn't scared, wasn't hurting, just like I wasn't there, but then I was watching it all.... Here again, it seems like I was more or less just detached, looking at the thing from somewhere else, a completely uninterested bystander. Unemotional, not hurting, almost like it wasn't me, like I was watching somebody else going through it....

A: Did you know who you were watching at the time?

S: Yes. I knew it was me, but I wasn't concerned about it, for some reason, but yet I knew something serious was going on, but yet it didn't bother me. Like `Look what they are doing. Very interesting!'

A: What's the next thing you remember after you got back?

S: Back conscious?

A: Yes.

S: I remember there were still all those people around and they were checking pulses, looking at the monitor, blood pressure.

A: Were you looking up from where you were then?

S: Yes. Looking up from my back.

A: So there was a definite difference from where you were looking up and from where you were observing this before?

S: Yes. Definitely. I couldn't pinpoint a position where I had been, but it was almost like I was in an amphitheater, and I was observing it. I was at the foot of the bed or to either side....

A: Did you feel like you could go anywhere else when you were in this detached position?

S: I could have walked around or whatever. I was free to do whatever I wanted, move around, watch what was going on....

A: Had you seen a resuscitation before?

S: No. I never had.

A: Had you watched it on a TV program?

S: I don't recall ever having seen it on TV.

A: Had you ever watched or seen this defibrillator work before?

S: Never.

In short, this man claimed to have viewed the following events during his autoscopic NDE; doctors and nurses rushing into his CCU room; an injection into his I-V line; the cardiac board being placed behind his back; movement of the dials on the face of the defibrillator while it was being charged; the pressing of `buttons' on top of the defibrillator paddles to discharge the defibrillator; the jolt of his body from each of three separate defibrillations; external cardiac massage between defibrillation attempts; and the holding of a light-green oxygen mask, which was `hissing' under `pressure,' over his face during the procedure.

Comment: This man's medical record indicated that he had had a cardiac. arrest in the CCU during the early-morning hours of his second hospital day. He was successfully defibrillated; Other specifics of the CPR procedure were not available.

From a general medical standpoint, this man's autoscopic report of his resuscitation accurately describes what would be expected during a CPR procedure performed by highly trained personnel in an intensive care unit setting. I was particularly fascinated by his description of a `fixed' needle and a `moving' needle on the face of the defibrillator as it was being charged with electricity. The movement of these two needles is not something he could have observed unless he had actually seen this instrument in use. These two needles are individually used (1) to preselect the amount of electricity to be delivered to the patient (`they moved the fixed needle and it stayed still') and (2) to indicate that the defibrillator is being charged to the preselected amount (`[the moving needle] seemed to come up rather slowly really. It didn't just pop up like an ammeter or a voltmeter or something registering'). This charging procedure is only performed immediately , prior to defibrillation, since once charged, this machine poses a serious electrical hazard unless it is correctly discharged in a very specific manner. Moreover, the meters of the type described by this man are not found on more recent defibrillator models, but were in common use in 1973, at the time of his cardiac arrest.
Had this man, from his training as an air force pilot, been exposed to. CPR instruments and techniques which would have enabled him to give such an accurate, detailed account of his own resuscitation without having actually observed it from his autoscopic NDE? Throughout the interview, he used various medical terms (`lidocaine pushes,' `defibrillator,' 'wattseconds,' etc.) which might suggest that he possessed a rather sophisticated knowledge of medical jargon and procedures. When asked about this, he explained that he had paid close attention to what was being said during his autoscopic NDE and could recall much of the words and conversation used by the doctors and nurses present ('I heard them calling out watt-seconds on the defibrillator-watts or watt-seconds'). Moreover, he flatly denied having ever seen this CPR procedure, including the movement of the needles on the defibrillator, at any other time. The tone of this interview and of subsequent conversations I have had with this man have convinced me that he would have no reason to lie about these statements. I feel this way partly because of his consistent downplaying of the significance of his own experience throughout our conversations. While he was quite sure that he had watched his own resuscitation as if `detached, standing off to the side' and that the things he had observed were real, he nevertheless was not impressed with the occurrence itself. He was one of the few persons I interviewed who was not convinced that his NDE represented anything unusual:

It's like a dream. You're detached from the thing and watching it as a bystander.... Really the only explanation I can have is that the brain still functions even though it is partially dead, or starved from oxygen. Everybody believes you are out cold, but you are still perceiving things even when you can't talk or move ... visually and audibly [perceiving things].... That's it. That's the way it is. It hasn't changed my thinking about life, death, the hereafter or anything else. It's one of the facts of life you can't explain.

In the two and a half years following our initial interview, this man has consistently maintained the same - attitude toward his NDE in the talks we have had together.

-------------------------------

April 18, 2007
6:49 pm
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WOW.....what an incredible thread!!!!

Not sure if I can follow along to all of the discussions here...I just simply "know what I know" deep in my guts for as long as I can remember that I chose this life.

I remember sitting around this round table with "elders" discussing my decision to return back to earth for yet another "go 'round" and was warned that it would be "very difficult" - I remember saying QUOTE - "that I was up for the challenge"

I remember that more clearly than anything else in this physical life - bar none.

To me, this whole "earth experience" is one step removed from "true conscienceness" (spelling?)

It's like - my explicit actions I take in the dreamstate is the REAL REALITY with all senses extremely heightened...and living here on earth in the physical is much "heavier" with limitations like living in "black and white" as opposed to the full "Technicolor" of existing without physical restraints.

I dunno how I know that......I just do!

Everything physical on this planet does one thing: It transforms!!!!!

Ice to water and water to vapor.....the oceans bring forth new life via volcanoes which eventually tansform again to repeat this process over and over again.........

It's like the earth acts as one, big, huge cell.....albeit the GAIA theory. (I think it's GAIA...based on a book by someone...James Lovelace or Lovelorn - or something....alot of my books are packed up - sorry.)

I think that Roseanne Barr said it best: "We are not Humans having a spiritual experience....We are Spiritual Beings having a Human Experience." pretty much sums up what I feel to be true deep down in my bones!!!!!!!!

I think that when we die, hell, we just lose about 20 pounds or so as we shed our physical bodies and that's about it - everything else remains intact.

But I'll tell you one thing....I will think TWICE before opting for another go 'round again...to be sure!!!!!!!

That's my slant on it all anyway!!!!!

April 18, 2007
8:58 pm
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TruthBtold

Thanks for your response of 18-Apr-07.

You probably remembered 'correctly'. I don't imagine that the table around which your 'elders' consulted with you was constructed of atoms. However what the mind creates in that part of your experience is not IMHO any less real than the illusion of the independent existence of the table at which you sit in this earthly existence.

Under hypnosis I underwent hypnotic regression to my death in one life previous to this. An instant after my death from falling trusses as the hangar roof collapsed under the bombs, I was looking down from several hundred feet in the air at the bombs exploding on the Luftwaffe air strip and the burning aircraft on the hard standing. I re-experienced thinking "Oh how lovely are the colors and the explosions - just like fireworks."

Just a few moments before my death I had been terrified by the hangar crashing down about me. I was at a WWII German air force ball with my Luftwaffe boy friend. Yes,in that birth I was a 21 year old girl at the time of my death. I was terribly frightened for both Frederich, my bf, and myself, yelling out for him. Yet in an instant, dead and above the hangars all that changed.

When I read: "I was just detached. I wasn't scared, wasn't hurting, just like I wasn't there, but then I was watching it all.... Here again, it seems like I was more or less just detached, looking at the thing from somewhere else, a completely uninterested bystander. Unemotional, not hurting, almost like it wasn't me, like I was watching somebody else going through it...." , I knew exactly how this guy felt. I felt the same moments after my death. In fact I doubt that I even knew at that stage that I was dead! But there were no screaming emotions then. They had ceased erupting with the death of my brain. It seemed that all earthly concerns had vanished and I was only conscious of the 'wonderment of the fireworks'.

April 18, 2007
9:46 pm
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Tez,

Yep!

I hear you!

I once met this Indian Shaman in this lifetime and he was teliing me about how he was hit with a bullet in his previous life.

I can not recall the exact location - but he told me that when he told his mother of this incident - that she dropped her cup of coffee and told him that he had a scar when he was born in the same exact location of what he was describing in his past life.

I have also heard of an instance where there was an organ donor. A young man had just ate some chicken nuggets right before his death on a motorcycle....and he had died. Later it was discovered that the donor had this strange sense of eating a chicken nugget - or something like that upon recovery of having the new organ.

Also, my ex husband was absolutely obsessed with older sniper rifles.

At one point, we went to this shop that had old sniper rifles and my ex picked it up and knew exactly how all the mechanics of the rifle was used like the back of his hand - and the owner of the shop was astounded at how he handled the weapon with such expertise and asked him if he ever held a rifle like that - my ex said no - but he knew how it all worked.......like a second nature.

There is alot to be said about hypnotic regression such as the experience that you described Tez.

Afterall, when you REALLY come to think about it - how else could it be....really now - you know?

It's all about transformation.

On another note - I often wondered...just why is it that young children seem to have this innate sense of right and wrong?

About what "is fair" and "what isn't fair."

Hell, even my cats get jealous and seem to have this sense!

Where do you suppose this comes from?

From the transformation no doubt!!!!!

I do believe in my heart of hearts that all of this talk about past lives and such that is currently "poohed-poohed" by mainstream mentality can be compared to that time in history when we first discovered that the earth was not indeed flat.....you know??????

Your "wonderment of the fireworks" to me is not so far fetched - but embraces the modality of it all....that being in the true child-like "wonderment of it all" - which I sense is at the crux of it all.

We never, EVER lose the "wonderment of it all"

I write poetry. Sometimes, I even write it backwards - that being that I write the last line first and the first line last - just how it all comes to my mind - and this discussion reminds me of something I wrote many years ago (1-4-97:)

Innocence is NEVER lost,
though sometimes borrowed or stolen - - -
at a very high cost.

For that which once was -
does not EVER die......

....but finds it's OWN way home......

....in time....,
bye and bye.

It's all about that innocence that never, really, ever dies.........otherwise - how would we be able to distinguish that innate sense of right and wrong from the getgo?

Has nothing at all to do with organized religion....just "leftover" stuff from past lives and hopes of making it better for future generations - not unlike the flower that blooms in simple hopes of other future generations to follow.........really - the bottom line as far as I am concerned.

Bu the way - thanks for taking my meeting with "the elders" seriously - most folks think I am a little crazy when I tell them that - only - I KNOW better!!!!!!!!

April 19, 2007
6:33 pm
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TruthBtold

Thanks for your very interesting response of 18-Apr-07. In it you said:

"It's all about transformation."

I am pondering that statement.

All is changing - no 'thing' is permanent. That is for sure and for certain. Every 'thing' exists only in a dependent relationship with the 'all' in a complex matrix. It seems to me that all borders or boundaries, delimiting a 'thing', are a construct of the mind and therefore not inherent in the 'thing'. That 'thing' or 'object' of which I speak might be a human being that thinks that he/she/it is a clearly delineated being and not an interdependent 'thing' of any kind. I think this is the 'ego construct' of mind defending its integrity to the bitter end. Death does not appear to fragment this 'ego mindset'. We still appear to have some sense of 'selfhood' after death. But this doesn't prove the existence of a truly independent 'self' or 'soul' as Christians appear to believe exists.

From that perspective of the interdependence of all 'things', what, do you think, is transforming into what?

April 21, 2007
10:18 pm
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Here's an interesting observation made by Sogyal Rinpoche regarding the meaning of the NDE.

From his book about the Bardo Thodol called: 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying' pp 338-340

------------------------------

THE MEANING OF THE NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE

Inevitably some have tried to show that the events of the near-death experience constitute something other than a spiritual experience, and reductionist scientists have tried to explain it away in terms of physiological, neurological, chemical, or psychological effects. The near-death experience researchers, however, doctors and scientists themselves, have countered these objections lucidly one by one, and insist that they cannot explain the whole of the near-death experience. As Melvin Morse writes at the end of his magnificent book Closer to the Light: Learning from Children's Near-Death Experiences:

But near-death experiences appear to be a cluster of events so that one cannot understand the total by looking at its various pieces. One cannot understand music by studying the various frequencies of sound that generate each note, nor does one need to have a deep understanding of acoustical physics to enjoy Mozart. The near-death experience remains a mystery.

I feel that just understanding near-death experiences will be our first step at healing the great division between science and religion that started with Isaac Newton almost three hundred years ago. Educating physicians, nurses, and ourselves about what people experience in those final hours will shatter our prejudices about the ways we think about medicine and life.

In other words the very advance in medical technology is simultaneously providing the means to revolutionize itself. Melvin Morse says:

I find it ironic that it is our medical technology that has led to this plethora of near-death experiences.... There have been near-death experiences throughout the centuries, but it has only been in the last twenty years that we have had the technology to resuscitate patients. Now they are telling us about their experiences, so let's listen to them. This to me is a challenge for our society ... Near-death experiences, to my mind, are a natural, psychological process associated with dying. I'm going to boldly predict if we can reintegrate this knowledge into our society, not only will it help with dying patients, but it will help society as a whole. I see medicine today as being devoid of spirit. . . . There is no reason why technology and the spirit cannot exist side by side.

One of the reasons I have written this book is to show I believe what Melvin Morse says is possible: Technology and the spirit can and must exist side by side, if our fullest human potential is to be developed. Wouldn't a complete, and completely useful, human science have the courage to embrace and explore the facts of the mystical, the facts of death and dying as revealed in the near-death experience and in this book?

Bruce Greyson, one of the leading figures in near-death research, says:

Science must try to explain the near-death experience because therein lies the key to its own growth.... History tells us that only in trying to explain phenomena which are currently beyond our reach will science develop new methods. I believe the near-death experience is one of the puzzles that just might force scientists to develop a new scientific method, one that will incorporate all sources of knowledge, not only logical deduction of the intellect, and empirical observation of the physical, but direct experience of the mystical as well.

Bruce Greyson has also said he believes near-death experiences occur for a reason: "Based on my watching near-death experiences for a number of years, I think that we have these experiences in order to learn how to help others."

Kenneth Ring sees yet another extraordinary possibility and meaning to the near-death experiences. He asks why so many people are now having such experiences and going through spiritual transformation at this time. For many years one of the bravest pioneers in the field of near-death research, he has come to see the near-death experiencers as being "messengers of hope," speaking of a higher and more noble spiritual reality, and calling us to change urgently every facet of how we live now; to end all war, all divisions between religions and peoples, and to protect and save the environment:

I believe ... that humanity as a whole is collectively struggling to awaken to a newer and higher mode of consciousness, . . . and that the near-death experience can be viewed as an evolutionary device to bring about this transformation, over a period of years, in millions of persons.

It may be that whether this is true or not depends on all of us; on whether we really have the courage to face the implications of the near-death experience and the bardo teachings, and by transforming ourselves transform the world around us, and so by stages the whole future of humanity.

-------------------------

April 23, 2007
7:56 pm
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Tez i'm back

i was about to post the question at randi about that IEEE study you mentioned.

um.. bustedddd! yeaaa

link

which says:

"Subsequently, properly controlled tests were done by several other researchers, eliminating several sources of cuing and extraneous evidence that had been present in the tests. These new tests produced negative results. The data of Puthoff and Targ were reexamined by the other researchers, and it was found that their students were able to solve the locations without use of any psychic powers, using only the clues that had inadvertently been included in the Puthoff and Targ transcripts."

Do you feel deceived now, or what?

No I'm 1 and you're 0, so try again. Wow, can you imagine these ***'ers had the audacity to give clues to the subjects and mislead them like this? Amazing.

I thought IEEE would be a reputable journal so I really thought we had something here.

But there, its busted. Any other proof of external conciousness? The professor Tart, he gets a swift kick in the butt too:

link

This says:
"Dr. Tart has contributed much to parapsychology, including a “10-choice Trainer” which he constructed to test ESP. This setup consisted of two isolation booths and a system whereby one of ten digits was randomly chosen by an experimenter in the first booth and then transmitted to a subject in the other booth by ESP.
After his book on the experiments appeared reporting successful results and causing a great sensation in psi circles, an independent, skeptical researcher visited the laboratory and examined the device and how it was used. He pointed out that there were methods by which sensory leakage might have occurred during the tests. Then mathematicians at Davis discovered that there were faults with the randomizer of exactly the nature that would tend to produce positively biased results. And there were several modes available if the subjects chose to cheat."

Here's more google results for the Randi site talking about Tart. That includes forum posts:

Google

Do you see the pattern here?? These people are dishonest *'ing liars. They know they're misleading the public.

If anyone was really true, why would anyone need to LIE about it? There you go. Glad I got this sorted.

April 23, 2007
7:58 pm
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Typo: If anyTHING was really true.

April 24, 2007
12:34 am
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Tez ~ I am really impressed that you've had faith and courage to allow the hypnotist to bring you past your last death. I read about it, don't remember the author or title that people were actually able to confirm the existence (through birth records) of people who they were before. I also read that some people died while re-experiencing their deaths from previous lives. I never allowed myself to be hypnotized, and I would be too afraid to make an experiment like you did, I still have some stuff to do in this life. I read about little girl who remembered where she lived before and brought her parents to her previous parents who were still mourning after their little daughter died.

I believe that I was here before through my dreams, and fears I have, or had as a child. I also think that it is no coincidence that some people seem so familiar to us, even though we never met them before.

I guess you didn't spend much time "in between" if you were killed during the WWII, I assume? Hmm, sometimes I think that it was also the time when I died last time.

For me this is very positive thought that this existence is just a part of a journey, not the end of it.

April 24, 2007
3:24 am
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Guest_guest.

"No I'm 1 and you're 0, so try again. Wow, can you imagine these ***'ers had the audacity to give clues to the subjects and mislead them like this? Amazing."

Wow Randi can't be wrong - therefore you must be right in everything you say. Foolproof logic that.

This proves that there is nothing other than what you can see in front of your very eyes, hear with your ears, smell with your nose, taste with your tongue or feel with your skin. Such undeniable logic!! I'm amazed. I never doubt you again.

April 24, 2007
4:04 am
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Matteo.

On the 24-Apr-07 you said:

"Tez ~ I am really impressed that you've had faith and courage to allow the hypnotist to bring you past your last death."

I was born in May 1942. As a little boy being reared post WW2, I had a very unusual obsession with the German high command and the German politicians. I kept a scrap book of them all cutting their pictures from newspapers and magazines. I was very interested in model planes especially world war 1 and 2 fighters.

Later on in 1962, I joined the Royal Australian Air Force as an Instrument Fitter, (Ground crew) servicing Twin Vampires and F86 Sabre jet fighters fitted with Rolls Royce Avon engines.

Many years after when back in 'Civvy Street', I pondered all of the above. In 1985 on a visit to Britain, I had the chance to visit the Aircraft Museum at Hendon, situated on an old WW2 air force base. As I walked amongst the German aircraft there, chance had it that some Luftwaffe music came blaring over the loud speakers. The hair stood up on the back of my neck. I walked amongst the German aircraft trying to get a feeling for any particular one type but could not. As I had a belief in reincarnation by then, I was absolutely convinced that I had been a German Luftwaffe pilot flying ME109s in WW2.

When I came back to Australia, I was determined to find out more about this past life. 1986 came and I entered into a torrid and toxic relationship with a very beautiful looking woman who put me within a cats whisker of a nervous breakdown.

In 1987 both of the above experiences conspired to motivate me to seek help from both psychotherapists and a hypnotherapist .

From the hypnotic regression, much to my surprise I found out that I was NOT a fighter pilot at all but the girlfriend of a German Officer (a pilot I think?). Far from having a glamorous past, I was a seamstress in a factory with hundreds of other girls manufacturing German Wehrmact uniforms.

If my unconscious mind had fabricated this story, I would have come up with a very different story indeed. Being very heterosexual male in this birth with homophobia to boot, I was disgusted to remember the strong sexual feelings that I had felt for my boyfriend in my Germanic birth as I saw him walking towards me on the Luftwaffe Air Base. I remember him as being a member of the 24th JG fighter squadron and I remembered his name as being Fredrich Wieler(I think that is how his surname is spelt.) When I was asked by the hypnotist to see if any people in my Germanic birth were also in this birth too, I immediately recognized Frederich as being the same person as this toxic girlfriend that I had just broken up with for the umpteenth time in 1987.

Now comes the really amazing part. This woman in this toxic relationship break up acted and behaved just like a man. She had an obsession with watching old WW2 German war movies. Her apartment had no curtins or decorations of any kind. She was very lax as a housekeeper. She wanted sex just like a man does with no afterglow at all and she 'pig f..ked' like a man. She had all the characteristics and morals of a male Playboy 'libertine'.

I can tell you much more but it will have to wait for another day.

April 24, 2007
7:43 am
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Tez, whatever it is - you brought proof for ESP and your Charles Tart - its all busted by randi.

Right now all you have is "if we cant see it, it doesnt mean it doesnt exist". Like I said, your beliefs are not much different from other religions. They say the same exact thing..

They belief in something they have no proof for. Let me know if you got any other proofs

April 24, 2007
6:24 pm
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Guest_guest.

Randi does a good job most of the time but he is only giving his onesided biassed interpretation of scientific research not proof that Russell and Targ were wrong.

But the level of your bias is only matched by your total lack of any mental discipline. You have a credibility problem.

But that's not my problem - fortunately for me it's yours not mine.

Catch you later.

April 24, 2007
6:37 pm
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Hm. no response to the rebuttals.

Randi proved these guys to be dishonest liars and you're saying that RANDI was doing a one sided thing. Very good then.

April 24, 2007
6:54 pm
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let me repeat here TEZ

ESP paper busted:

"The data of Puthoff and Targ were reexamined by the other researchers, and it was found that their students were able to solve the locations without use of any psychic powers, using only the clues that had inadvertently been included in the Puthoff and Targ transcripts."

Tart busted:

"Then mathematicians at Davis discovered that there were faults with the randomizer of exactly the nature that would tend to produce positively biased results. And there were several modes available if the subjects chose to cheat."

And what was your response to that? personal attacks.

I'm smarter than you. thankgod I realized. Its amazing that I didnt realize it before but we all you know, have our own pace. I'm thankful now.

But forget all that - I still ask you to prove Tart and the ESP guys right. Do it. Give me something, be rational and not emotional, for once.

April 24, 2007
9:36 pm
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guest_guest

"I'm smarter than you. thankgod I realized."

You might be. But who cares?

April 24, 2007
10:40 pm
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Matteo
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Tez ~ this is fascinating story, thank you for sharing it. Gave me goosebumps when I read about Frederik being your ex... it kind of reassures my beliefs about the most influential person who came into my life... we both had a feeling like we knew each other all our lives.

Did you go any further back?

April 24, 2007
11:19 pm
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In my past life I was a squirrel which was the regular humping victim of a crazy rabbit. It wasnt pretty, I can tell you. I spent all my time running away from the little guy. Thankgod he couldnt climb trees. Due to the various good I did in my squirrel life which included giving free nuts to sick squirrels and groundsnakes, I was able to be reborn as a man. I still like nuts which is proof that I was once a squirrel, just incase anyone doubts my story.

April 24, 2007
11:36 pm
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G_

"I still like nuts which is proof that I was once a squirrel, just incase anyone doubts my story."

This story- it's just nuts!

April 24, 2007
11:39 pm
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guest_guest ~ maybe you were just a nut. You might want to prove that as well.

April 24, 2007
11:50 pm
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Matteo

Or disprove it?

April 24, 2007
11:55 pm
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Yeah, bevdee, this is what I meant.

April 25, 2007
10:52 pm
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Matteo
24-Apr-07

"Did you go any further back?"

Yes I did. I jumped back to what appeared to me to be the 1700's(a guess). I owned a Ship's Chandlery business on the waterfront somewhere in Holland. It was a 2 story wedge shaped building with living quarters above the shop. I had a wife and children. It seems that I arranged to have the place burnt down - to gain insurance money I think. However things went horribly wrong and I think that one of my family was killed in the blaze. I saw the big buckles upon my shoes and my stockings on my legs. I can still recall what the premises looked like both outside and inside.

The interesting thing is that on and off during my life I have this recurring dream of the roof of my home being on fire. Once, I pushed my wife out of bed to avoid the burning timbers hitting her as they fell. Can you imagine how she responded to that when she got up off the floor to find me raving on about a fire in the roof?

I neglected to tell you that this hypnotic regression was undertaken in a small group situation to minimize costs. Thus the hypnotist kept the directions and questions very general in nature, recording nothing during the hypnosis at all. After the session we all in turn recounted our experiences - those that went under that is. Thus the regression was not sequential. I obviously jumped several births - probably because they were not traumatic. But I do not know that for sure. It might have been that I jumped over the more traumatic ones. I don't know. But I know that I never recalled being someone famous, rich or powerful like a pharoah.

Do I believe that these were my past lives? I don't know for sure but I suspect that they were.

I feel no urge to either defend this tentatively held belief or to try to convince close minded people of the veracity of my experiences.

Last night for the first time, I had what is classified as a lucid dream. Many times I've had dreams wherein I have been vaguely aware that I was only dreaming. This dream was very different. I was walking down the road in some small town. I was fully aware that I was dreaming. I watched the scene with great interest. I thought to myself in the dream: "Go up to the building in front of you and check out how real the texture of the stucco(plastered wall) appears closeup."

I went up close to the wall and saw the paint chipping away from window fittings. I saw the yellow colored stucco up close and the resolution was perfect just as in awake life. I thought: "Knock on a door and look at the person who comes out." I did that and from when the door opened I remember no more.

What this convinces me of is that, since the mind is capable of creating such fantasticly detailed and accurate three dimensional scenes, to draw the conclusion, that my hypnotic regression experiences were true replicas from some past life, based upon the sense of reality they convey, is a long bow to draw.

Having expressed that caveat, there have been some interesting post hypnotic regression studies and research done wherein the intimate details have been checked against actual records and by archaelogical digs of different kinds with astounding confirmations.

In one instance a woman was regressed to a life as a male doctor in an Edinburough medical university in Scotland in the 1800's. The researchers flew her over to the still existing institution. She described the insides of the buildings accurately prior to entering them. However one description contained a huge inaccuracy. She described a non-existent hallway leading of one of the communal rooms. When taken to the room in question, she banged the wall insisting that a hall way once was there. The researchers called in an expert who also denied that there ever was a hall way there. To prove his point this expert went away and returned with some old drawings laying them out on the table in front of the group. To his horror he found the hall way and the subsequent plans to remodel the building removing same. Coincidence? Hmmmm!! The woman had no genetic connection or otherwise with the long dead Scottish doctor. She was not an architect who had studied old buildings either.

In yet another case in this study another person was taken to find the country house lived in hundreds of years ago. All they could find was a stone building now used as a piggery. On closer inspection, bricked up windows and doors were found where this person had previously described them under hypnosis. However no sign of the patterned marble floor was evident. Archaeologists began digging into the layers of pig shit compressed over the centuries into hard ground and low and behold a foot or so down, the marble parquetry floor appeared with exactly the same patterns as described by the subject under hypnosis. Again no genetic connection or otherwise connected this person to any of the owners of this house/farm right back to the time the person claimed to have owned the building.

I have documentaries on Video tape that I recorded many years ago of yet another study revealing just as staggeringly accurate substantiations. Yet it doesn't 'PROVE' that reincarnation is a fact at all. It just proves that the mind can tap into some non-material database in which inordinately large amounts of memory is stored. I call that data base Mind - with a capital 'M'. Please don't think that I am implying that this word 'Mind' is another name for some Personal Supreme Divine Being called by Christians God and Muslims Allah. I don't believe in the existence of such Personal Gods. I think that the Buddhists have it close to right when they talk about mindstreams with a lower case 'm'. Buddhists do not believe in the existence of either God or a soul that migrates. They believe that only pre-conditioned(karma)characteristics and tendencies are passed continuously through to the embryo in what they call the alaya consciousness - i.e. similar to the Jungian 'personal' unconscious. I think that stored memories are thus possibly passed on as well. Or at least it seems that we can access such memories in our mindstream's 'database sub- directory' reserved primarily for our access and located in the universal Mind 'hard drive'. That's my best guess at this stage.

I'll leave it at that before I end up writing a book.

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