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life after death / near death experiences
April 2, 2007
10:04 pm
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ok then gonna tell all that to the folks there. they approved my account finally.

i'm having real bad days and stress. hope something good comes out of my life. leading a sad life nowdays. lonely and getting nowwhere basically, but i AM trying. oh well

April 3, 2007
6:34 pm
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2-Apr-07

You said:

"ok then gonna tell all that to the folks there. they approved my account finally."

I won't have too many expectations. I have a fair idea of what's coming.

"i'm having real bad days and stress. hope something good comes out of my life."

Old saying: "What is one man's meat is another man's poison."

From my perspective, what this means is that how one interprets events determines whether they are good or bad. Looking only for the good in anything can only bring its own rewards, while looking for the bad its own punishments.

What we regard as good and bad is very subjective indeed.

You said:

"leading a sad life nowdays. lonely and getting nowwhere basically, but i AM trying. oh well"

Try, not to try so hard at self-seeking! I'm happiest when I'm exercising by either walking or in my small gym setup. Why? Because I'm letting go of trying to do anything. I'm focussing on what my body is doing in the here and now.

There is anoth aspect to feeling my body's response. Even though there is pain from the muscles being worked hard it feels good. If I had arthritis pain, it would feel bad. One pain is telling me I am doing "good" the other that I have "bad" damage in my body. So you see my interpretation of the reason for the pain either brings on good emotional responses or bad. If I could find a beneficial effect of arthritic pain, then I would feel good about feeling bad. 🙂

We create our own heaven or hell in our own minds where we are born, live and die instant by instant.

There is another old saying that goes something like this: "It's impossible to have a 'problem' unless you are only focussing upon and thinking about yourself."

I'm not sure how true that saying is. But there is much more than a modicum of truth and wisdom in that saying. To thinking about and working for those less fortunate than we are certainly does lift our spirits.

I think that it is worth remembering constantly that everyone has their own burdens to carry, no matter how well off they are. Look at the misery in the lives of the 'rich and famous'. It is when I tell myself that everyone else has a great life except me and I'm the only poor bastard who feels like this, that I can wallow in a very depressed state.

I beat psychiatricaly diagnosed chronic depression years ago without drugs by using my own mind, despite all the forebodings and dire warnings from the psychiatrist. So you see I have a small inkling of what I'm on about.

I hope that is of some help in getting you out of the doldrums.

If trying to change your perspective on your life doesn't work then undertake some volunteer work helping those less fortunate than yourself.

There's an ex Vietnam vet guy in Oz here who lost his farm due to the severe drought conditions in Australia. He sank into a great depression when his misfortune triggered off terrible wartime memories. He was hospitalized in a War Veterans Repatriation Hospital here. For 12 month he failed to respond to the psychiatrist's best efforts, getting steadily worse. In desperation the psychiatrist told him to 'get off his arse' and help someone else less fortunate than him. He replied: "How do I find some one worse off than I am? I'm fucked up completely!!!"

Anyway, he thought about this and in desperation decided to try to help other farmers who were facing losing their farms as he had done.

Now, two years later he has established a great charity called AussieHelpers. He has established a warehouse, vehicles, volunteer staff. AussieHelpers has a $500,000 bank account with more money pouring in every day. Paul Newman, the Yankee film star, donated $20,000 recently!! This guy's now on top of the world distributing goods, money and services to the desperate. He even goes cattle droving on horseback with them if and when necessary. It turned around his whole life. Without any money to call his own, he now lives happily in a small rented house supported by a meagre military pension. But he and his wife have never been so happy in their whole live's!! She says that she now feels loved by him instead of just being an 'accessory'. This guy has learnt to love others after so many years of living without ever doing that.

Both you and I can do the same if we want to. If you stick at it for the right reasons, I guarantee that this will definitely will work for you. As I fast approach retirement, I'm seriously considering it right now myself!

But age, either too old or too young, and circumstances, either good or bad, are always a good excuse for not doing anything besides 'wallowing' in self-pity aren't they. My self-centredness is my main inhibitor of my own happiness. Ain't that the truth!! I know that only too well from my own experience.

What's this got to do with NDE's - nothing!!

April 4, 2007
3:05 pm
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Tez,
Your experiences, your perceptions do not determine who God is, but only in your own mind. Neither do they determine what he thinks about you, which from His perspective is love. Many have had many bad experiences and have not been raised with an iota of information, but at some point in their adult life chose God because it works. So ultimately it's only a matter of choice for or against.

I don't mean to preach to you, and yes guilty as you so charge, I do believe it is the only way. So yeah, I do care. But far be it from me to keep going with this. Let me put it this way....IF you ever change your mind, you know where to find me.

There, no more.

Peace be to you as well.

April 4, 2007
7:37 pm
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You said:

"Tez, Your experiences, your perceptions do not determine who God is, but only in your own mind."

You are well meaning but what you expressed in your response about the existence of some God of your imagining is "only in your mind" as well - to use your words. That's the only place any of this exists for any of us. What's new?

Your God is a figment of your imagination indoctrinated during your socialization.

People who cling to their beliefs like a life raft must hold tenaciously to the conviction that they are right and everyone else is wrong or otherwise face a huge insecurity attack. This is natural. I did the same thing as a Christian myself until I realized that I was deluding myself.

I heard a EWTN Roman Catholic interviewer talking to a new convert, an ex-Church of Christ pastor who 'saw the light' and joined the "one and only true Christian religion" to use his words. The interviewer referred to the writings of some Roman catholic priest called Father Luther. He advised listeners not to get this priest confused with that other fellow who "messed things up pretty badly"; i.e. Martin Luther, the founder of the Lutheran church. The ex-Church of Christ pastor said that as a pastor he had been trained to believe that the Church of Christ was the only true Christian church.

With all their brightest theological minds, your own Christian sects can't even agree upon what is the real Christian church message! Each thinks they know the actual 'truth' and that what all the other sects have is "only in" their "own mind". What makes you think you possess absolute truth? What makes you different?

Having such a fear driven conviction of possessing the absolute truth about the existence of some imaginary God and his son, is a bar against any further use of your own intellect in this regard.

If you ever change your mind you know where to find me.

April 5, 2007
4:37 pm
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Tez, 🙂

You know all of this brings me back to ghosts...what are they and what is their purpose if they have one? Hopefully this does not take away from the thread title, because when I also think of consciousness, I think of lingering conciousness without a physical body. Maybe some have experienced being around ghosts, but there are ghost towns here in the US, one place in particular in an old mining town, that used to be an old hospital. When you walk into this place you can feel the spirits there, or their energy they left behind, or their conciousness that is there...but so much electricity in the air that one's hair literally stands straight up.

Any thoughts on this in regard to conciousness...and are they considered dead or alive in this sense?

April 5, 2007
4:42 pm
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hi all 🙂

om my way - perhaps they have unfinished business which keeps them here?

I hope there is a better place after this life, if there is nothing then it all seems like a waste of time?!!

April 5, 2007
8:10 pm
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On the 5-Apr-07 you asked:

"You know all of this brings me back to ghosts...what are they and what is their purpose if they have one?"

Having a "purpose" suggests the the existence of a thinking purposeful creator of ghosts who implemented this ghostly state of being for some "purpose".

Since I don't believe that such a creator exists, I have to answer that question by saying that the 'ego mind' - that offshoot isolated part of the Universal Mind which always was and always will be - chooses for whatever deluded reason to cling to a particular lifetime long after letting go of the body, in which that life's play was acted out. When our own mind's ego lets us mount the constraints imposed by it, we are able to see the mind of some deceased person clinging to its image of its previous life form. Humans think that they see ghosts 'out there' as if they really were 'out there'.

An example of this was the giant anaconda snake that I vividly saw in full technicolor crawling through my bedroom window. It was actually there until my mind realised that it was my nightmare's creation superimposed upon another 'reality' that I call being fully awake. The snake then faded from mye vision leaving only the backdrop of the room in which I was standing frozen with terror eyes bulging. Ghosts behave in exactly the same thing way - there one minute fading away the next.

I believe that ghosts are the 'ego mind' of the deceased successfully transmitting an image of their former selves through the ego barrier of the ego mind of the living ghost perceiver. It is just another form of PSI experiences that are so well documented by scientists.

And you said:

"Any thoughts on this in regard to conciousness...and are they considered dead or alive in this sense?"

When a rider dismounts from their horse "are they considered dead or alive in" the "sense" that they have changed their roles and their powers?

Likewise, when our deluded minds 'dismount' from our bodies their powers change in so far as they are out of the 'earth game' temporarily. At the moment of death, these disembodied minds don't suddenly become 'enlightened' as it were. The 'departing' mind will create its own reality. It might try to communicate with those 'left behind' until it realizes the futility of this, lets go and moves on.

The words dead and alive only really apply to the 'horse' not the rider - the mind. Please don't think of the 'ego mind' as being synonymous with this imaginary idea of the existence of some permanent entity that Christians and others call a 'soul'; it is not.

Thankfully, the ego mind is far from permanent or unchanging; that is, the ego mind constructed boundaries can be diminished. I believe that Guatama Buddha eventually destroyed his ego boundaries altogether as have all the Buddhas before him - and there have been many.

Consciousness is a function of mind. Consciousness is awareness of what the mind is doing.

When we see a field of view, where do you think that image resides? At one location in our brain? Sorry that is not so. Yes we have a visual cortex, the name given by neuroscience for that part of the brain that initially receives the unintelligible signals from the visual thalamus, the 'switch box' that relays the signals from those sensors, our eyes. But where is the 'viewer', 'constructor and interpreter' of this multitude of firing neurons, located? There is no such specific location physically! Yet we think that the consciousness that we call 'me' is there somewhere in the driving seat physically!!!

We think that this 'me' 'dies' when the brain does! What happens on death is that the consciousness, that we think of as being 'me', desists from incessantly monitoring the alarm signals from the dying brain's emotional and cognitive regions. This consciousness loses the 'will' to 'activate' the brain any further. The brain then shuts down completely and with it the rest of the body processes. Rigormortis then starts to set in.

Where has our 'ego mind' gone after death? Answer: No where other than where its always been - everywhere and nowhere. And the mind game goes, goes on, goes on, life time upon life time playing out many parts in many different roles until disillusionment with the illusions and subsequent enlightenment puts an end to the 'will to play the game ever again'.

I hope that this post comprehensively answers your questions, giving my take on the issue of life after life.

April 5, 2007
8:30 pm
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Tez,
By purpose I meant, why do they linger. Not referring to an actual purpose.

"I believe that ghosts are the 'ego mind' of the deceased successfully transmitting an image of their former selves through the ego barrier of the ego mind of the living ghost perceiver. It is just another form of PSI experiences that are so well documented by scientists."

This makes sense to me. My pereption is because the ego mind is strong energy, almost 'outside' of one's self or even one's own perceived reality. And i agree, Buddha(s) are humble in spirit, from what I know.

"The 'departing' mind will create its own reality. It might try to communicate with those 'left behind' until it realizes the futility of this, lets go and moves on." Interesting idea as well.

"The words dead and alive only really apply to the 'horse' not the rider - the mind. Please don't think of the 'ego mind' as being synonymous with this imaginary idea of the existence of some permanent entity that Christians and others call a 'soul'; it is not." But a question...if the mind dies, what happens to the conciousness? I don't know the answer to this....scientifically speaking, there must be a scientific answer as well. These beings are real and some are para-normal sensitive, and communicate with these critters. To be honest I would be spooked, so I don't spend mental time there, but I know those who have. It just amazes me truthfully. So do you think that people hang around through their conciousness after death? You know my belief system, but even so....I still think that this energy conciousness is real....like an imprint that just hangs around in certain places.

Appreciate the extensive reply. Can't check back for a few days though! Interesting!

lewis....unfinished business...I don't know. If you think about it, we all have unfinished business when we die, so I don't know.

April 6, 2007
6:37 pm
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On the 5-Apr-07 you said:

"But a question...if the mind dies, what happens to the conciousness?"

I've been saying all along that the mind doesn't die. The 'ego mind' continues on unfettered by preoccupations with the brain activities that demand so much if not all of its attention.

Your question indicates to me that you believe that the mind depends for its existence upon the brain. This is not what NDE experiences indicate! There is a lot of empirical evidence of people being brain dead for some time who upon being revived have told of a reality far more real than this one. They have seen events during these NDE and recalled them later only to have them verified as being accurate by others. If you wade through the literature as I have done you will discover this to be true.

I believe that the brain depends for its very existence on the mind - not the reverse. This point is of fundamental importance in understanding how things work in regard to NDEs and life after life.

And you said:

" ... scientifically speaking, there must be a scientific answer as well."

There are - but you must be prepared to do the footwork of reading the research docs in this regard. I admire the work of Prof. Charles Tart and that of other open minded men of science like him - Dr. Helen Wambach, Dr. Michael B. Sabom, Dr. Richard Alpert and Dr. Timothy O'Leary, Dr. Melvin Morse, Dr. Raymond Moody, Dr. Kenneth Ring to name but a few. Surf these names and read all that they have to offer and then you might reach the same conclusion that I have; that is, the brain depends for its very existence on the mind - not the reverse.

"So do you think that people hang around through their conciousness after death?

Some small minority of "people hang around" as you put it. The continuity of the 'ego minds' maintains a deluded consciousness of a 'self' just as it does in earthly life - I believe. Most of us realize the futility of this "hanging around" and move on to the next stage in the 'bardo' that leads to the womb and a new brain.

That's what I believe.

April 9, 2007
2:11 pm
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Tez,
Appreciate the reading references. Will start with Dr. Moody.

No, I don't think the mind needs the brain to exist, otherwise I would not believe in a consciousness outside of literal brain activity that has physically 'died'. I think the mind is another word for the 'soul' though. From reading your thoughts, I gather that you may as well.

you say:

"Some small minority of "people hang around" as you put it. The continuity of the 'ego minds' maintains a deluded consciousness of a 'self' just as it does in earthly life - I believe. Most of us realize the futility of this "hanging around" and move on to the next stage in the 'bardo' that leads to the womb and a new brain."

...which I interpret to mean you are referring to reincarnation? I believe that yes, reincarnation could be true for some, but maybe not all. And I can't give you an explanation for that, it is just what my brain has come too. I just find it interesting to see how 'ego' may have a part in why ones's conciousness may hang around after death. I have no alterior motive here by the way....just thinking that even though we do not agree on many spiritual things....that there may be agreement on this one thing:

Out of body conciousness exists in people for NDE's or even after they die, because the mind does not die...ever.

Of course with NDE, they come back. Some have a story, others do not. This interests me as well, as there must be a reason. They seem to have more of an appreciation for life, and some have come back with extra sense power such as ESP or healing powers. I'll start reading.

April 10, 2007
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OMW

You wrote:

"I just find it interesting to see how 'ego' may have a part in why ones's conciousness may hang around after death."

From this statement I suspect that we both are using the word "ego" with a different understanding of the word.

A lot if not most people think of 'ego' as something that manifests obviously in someone who is 'up themselves' and thinks that they are a 'cut above the rest', figuratively speaking.

Whilst this self-aggrandizing attitude is a manifestation of a strong ego, I use the term in a much, much broader sense altogether. Any sense of the 'self' existing as an independent, permanent entity is a direct manifestation of the 'ego mind'. A person may appear very humble and self-effacing, yet have a very strong ego; that is a strong sense of 'self'.

Most people only think of ego in the one extreme type of overt manifestation of "look at me. Look how good I am". But it is the ego of the 'I' that differentiates and separates the 'little ego mind' from the 'pure nature of mind'; i.e. from the Universal Mind and therefore all that is.

Speaking in different terms about the same differentiation, Sogyal Rinpoche said:

"Once the nature of mind has been introduced and you recognize it, you have the key to recognizing it again. But just as you have to keep the photograph with you and keep looking at it again and again, to be sure of recognizing the person you are going to meet at the airport, so you have to keep deepening and stabilizing your recognition of the nature of mind through regular practice. Then the recognition becomes so ingrained in you, so much a part of you, that you have no further need of the photograph; when you meet the person recognition is spontaneous and immediate. So, after sustained practice of the recognition of the nature of mind, when at the moment of death the Ground Luminosity dawns, you will be able then to recognize it and merge with it-as instinctively, say the masters of the past, as a little child running eagerly into its mother's lap, like old friends meeting, or a river flowing into the sea.

Yet this is extremely difficult. The only way to ensure this recognition is through stabilizing and perfecting the practice of merging the two luminosities now, while we are still alive. This is only possible through a lifetime of training and endeavor. As my master Dudjom Rinpoche said, if we don't practice the merging of the two luminosities now, and from now on, there is no saying that recognition will happen naturally at death.

How exactly do we merge the luminosities? This is a very profound and advanced practice, and this is not the place to elaborate on it. But what we can say is this: When the master introduces us to the nature of mind, it is as if our sight has been restored, for we have been blind to the Ground Luminosity that is in everything. The master's introduction awakens in us a wisdom eye, with which we come to see clearly the true nature of whatever arises, the luminosity-Clear Light-nature of all our thoughts and emotions. Imagine that our recognition of the nature of mind comes, after stabilizing and perfecting the practice, to be like a steadily blazing sun. Thoughts and emotions go on arising; they are like waves of darkness. But each time the waves unfurl and meet the light, they dissolve immediately.
As we develop this ability to recognize more and more, it becomes part of our daily vision. When we-are able to bring the realization of our absolute nature into our everyday experience, the more chance there is that we will actually recognize the Ground Luminosity at the moment of death."

This "Ground Luminosity", to use Sogyal Rinpoche's terminology and seen at at the moment of death, is the bright light that so many NDE'rs encounter but don't recognize as their own Pure Mind that is undifferentiated from All Other. This "Ground Luminosity" is the underpinnings of the very sub-atomic particles that form the atom, the 'ego mind', the 'Pure Mind' and therefore all that 'is'. Some call all that 'is' "Suchness". My conviction is very strong on this point.

April 11, 2007
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Hi Tez,
Ground Luminosity and the writings of Sogyal Rinpoche sound to me very similar to the teachings of the Bible....at least the basics. The mind is definitely a battlefield, and the more light that is shed, the more wisdom is absorbed. Thoughts and emotions can be like waves of darkness until they meet the light. And, I would suppose that 'Ground Luminosity' is synonomous with entering death's door...the bright light, and when one sees God they either have a pure mind from seeing him or not, as they only may see themselves separated from that light. Many teachings are all very basically similar.

You say:

"Whilst this self-aggrandizing attitude is a manifestation of a strong ego, I use the term in a much, much broader sense altogether. Any sense of the 'self' existing as an independent, permanent entity is a direct manifestation of the 'ego mind'. A person may appear very humble and self-effacing, yet have a very strong ego; that is a strong sense of 'self'.

Most people only think of ego in the one extreme type of overt manifestation of "look at me. Look how good I am". But it is the ego of the 'I' that differentiates and separates the 'little ego mind' from the 'pure nature of mind'; i.e. from the Universal Mind and therefore all that is."

I don't really see that these two statements contradict one another, but that is because my idea of 'ego'is not so positive. Funny,I have seen 'ego' interpreted as "Edging God Out".....

April 11, 2007
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Didn't mean to hit 'send', but was going to add, it is all very interesting. Maybe the conciousness that 'hangs around' is that of those who also did not find or encounter 'Ground Luminosity', only speculation of course.

April 11, 2007
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Maybe it edges that godman out because once we begin to understand a Pure Mind, the human's need to rely on an external god lessens. Just speculation.

April 11, 2007
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bevdee

On the 11-Apr-07 you said:

"Maybe it edges that godman out because once we begin to understand a Pure Mind, the human's need to rely on an external god lessens."

I think you could be right on here. It seems that humans need to invent Gods in order to meet some deepseated need for a big daddy in the sky who will take care of them now and in the hereafter. Perhaps that is why many people misinterpret their experiences of the Ground Luminosity, had during NDE's, as meeting some deity, albeit the godman JC.

Some even draw such a long bow as to assume that this light is 'proof' of the existence of their own particular god or godman. The mind seems to have no limits to its creativity.

April 11, 2007
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Omw.

"Hi Tez, Ground Luminosity and the writings of Sogyal Rinpoche sound to me very similar to the teachings of the Bible"

You think so? I see no similarity at all. To me the Bible and Sogyal Rinpoche's writings appears to be as similar as chalk and cheese.

April 11, 2007
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Tez

"Perhaps that is why many people misinterpret their experiences of the Ground Luminosity, had during NDE's, as meeting some deity, albeit the godman JC."

It's certainly less mind-boggling, requires less thought. It's safer. IMO.

April 12, 2007
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Well I do agree with you both there, and beleive it is definitely so. And yes, it is definitely 'safer', safer to remain in one's own idea of what a pure mind means, which could also be interpreted as ego, or fear of the unknown, maybe...IMO.

bevdee, you say:

"Maybe it edges that godman out because once we begin to understand a Pure Mind, the human's need to rely on an external god lessens."

This is not a new concept...if you believe in Adam and Eve, or if you believe in satan, this concept has been around LONG before any of us were ever born.

Tez, they are similar. Pure Mind in the Buddhist sense, and Pure Mind in any sense, is a Pure Mind. I don't know anyone with a Pure Mind, do you? In the Buddhist sense, please define for me what exactly is a Pure Mind?

People like me, who beleive in God, believe that to know the only Pure Mind...'GOD-MAN JC', can only produce a pathway for a pure mind. For me personally, it isn't something I work at, it's something that I seek and then am given. I wasn't born with a pure mind, and not having one is not learned behavior, I think we are pre-disposed to not having one, and is something we have to obtain. But then the term Pure Mind does not only apply to cleaning a dirt mind, but also reaching a peaceful mind, etc. You do that through Buddhism, I do that with the power of JC. So in some sense they are similar, if only by definition. Or.....I read what Sogyal wrote, with a mindset of 'light and pure mind' that I already possess, MY interpretation, and you have yours.

Tez,
"This "Ground Luminosity" is the underpinnings of the very sub-atomic particles that form the atom, the 'ego mind', the 'Pure Mind' and therefore all that 'is'. Some call all that 'is' "Suchness"."

To me, this almost sounds like the creation of the world, the universe, and whatever else is out there, especially since you mention "sub-atomic particles that form the atom..." that if it were actually a "mind" behind it in that sense, intelligent design could then be 'Ground Luminosity'...a grounded energy current. Scary to think that we end up just 'out there' when we die, but i can see how yeah, it could also be a cycle of reincarnation.....until we 'get it right' so to speak. But then, because we don't possess a pure mind, how in the heck do we get it right? See, I don't believe that we can. We could come back a jillion times until we get it right. I believe that 'getting it right' is accepting that bridge of JC, and that we come back until we do. Of course that is only speculation on my part, I have no proof. I don't want to come back, but I believe people may.

April 12, 2007
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"bevdee, you say:

"Maybe it edges that godman out because once we begin to understand a Pure Mind, the human's need to rely on an external god lessens."

This is not a new concept...if you believe in Adam and Eve, or if you believe in satan, this concept has been around LONG before any of us were ever born."

OMW, I'm surprised that you would address this statement to me, since I have made my views on this very clear. I don't. Believe in Adam and Eve. I don't believe in the Christian God, or any GOD, therefore I don't believe in the godnemesis called Satan. I haven't really believed since I was old enough to read. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

My interpretation of one of the fables about naughty Eve and the duped Adam is that she did not take an order, thought for herself, ate an apple, offered part of it to her man, which he accepted from her. For these actions- eating from the tree of knowledge, they displeased and were banned by that GOD and had to cover their genitalia, then becoming shameful, a thing to be hidden.

So, the moral to this story is that the price of self-thought and knowledge was to incur the displeasure of that god, be banned from that paradise, and to have a very human attribute become shameful.

April 12, 2007
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bevdee, was not addressing you but answering you in a Lib AAC conversation. And I had no intentions of doing anything but that, so it was not a personal affront. If I offended you in any way, I do apologize for that. I thought that somewhere along the line that you knew of Adam and Eve, you had knowledge of that part of the Bible. Wow, 'naughty Eve and duped Adam.' yep I would say Adam was duped. Again, me expressing my opinions. And I really hope that you don't feel badly about how I beleive or how I express that here in Libs. Sometimes I take offense to your comments about God, but the bottom line is that everyone believes differently.

Peace,

April 12, 2007
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On the 12-Apr-07 you asked:

" In the Buddhist sense, please define for me what exactly is a Pure Mind?"

Answer: A mind with absolutely no pre-conditioning.

That means a mind that has not been pre-conditioned to believe that the body's sense organs indicate a reality out there that is exactly as it is perceived to be by the already pre-conditioned mind. Not even a new born baby's mind is unconditioned; this is a well recognized fact.

For example, we think that a very hot day, say 100 degrees F, is absolutely unquestionably hot. But is is neither hot or cold. It only appears to be very hot because of the preconditioning of the mind by our body heat sensing component of our brain to believe that it is so.

Who it is that is feeling the heat, is a another preconditioned mind construct.

Remove the myriad of the 'illusory' mind constructs and you have a Pure Mind. 'Everyone' has that 'pure mind' underpinning the 'impure' or preconditioned mind. The 'Ground Luminosity', as Sogyal Rinpoche calls it, is that 'pure mind'. If only we could recognize it when our bodies shut down, then the self-demarcating ego would disintegrate in an instant. I'm sorry to tell you that the 'Ground Luminosity' seen on death ain't the God of the Christian delusions - I'm sorry to have to inform you of that.

April 12, 2007
6:34 pm
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bevdee
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OMW

I'm not offended, I'm confused.

You said "bevdee, was not addressing you but answering you in a Lib AAC conversation."

I'm confused by this statement because you said - ""bevdee, you say:

"Maybe it edges that godman out because once we begin to understand a Pure Mind, the human's need to rely on an external god lessens."

And follow it directly with -"This is not a new concept...if you believe in Adam and Eve, or if you believe in satan, this concept has been around LONG before any of us were ever born."

I have read the bible front to back and read several versions, and from this I drew my conclusions. I am surprised that you would think I do not know or believe in the creation story since you and I have participated in several religious discussion threads, and both of us are very clear on our beliefs.

You also say "Sometimes I take offense to your comments about God," If you were addressing that statement to me, Bevdee, I totally don't know how to respond to that, other than to ask that if something offends you, do you mean that it makes you angry? When something makes me angry or when I feel offended, I ask myself what belief of mine do I feel is threatened? Why does it seem offensive or manke me angry?

So your feeling offended could be that, and it could be by saying that my comments are offensive to you that you would like me to stop? I've had that happen before, too. I'm trying to understand your post and your intent with that statement to me.

Yes, everyone believes differently, and even in Christianity there is a plethora of denominations, and there is even dissent and disagreement and sometimes there have been wars among those that believe in the same god.

That interpretation of the bible- the answer book for Christianity. Causes a lot of problems because the text is so contradictory. IMO.

April 16, 2007
3:02 pm
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on my way
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Hi bevdee,

IT's just the way I communicate. And I have a real problem, unfortunately, with anyone who may make God any less than He is. I also have a problem in that my communication style becomes blocked at times due to a streak of arrogance in me....which i really hate that about me. But at least i am aware of it, and can deal with it, and correct it. There have been times on AAC that I have not been truly sensitive about other's opinions and feelngs about God. I do believe in only one truth which is why I press it so. And I sincerely beleive that I am not wrong in that, but I do not communicate it very well at times. I don't need you or anyone to stop, everyone communicates differently, and it isn't that I am personally offended, I just hate to see God degraded in that sense. I'm one of those people who would or will end up dying for what I believe in.

I watched a CD yesterday, found out that there are 25,000 archaeological discoveries that prove the Bible is true. And yes I believe that the Bible is the answer book, because it has not failed me yet or anyone else that I know who beleives it. And if you knew me, when I have something true and good, and exciting and life-giving, then I talk about it. I always hope that others might, and sometimes they do, understand that same kind of peace and life. But I realize, (reluctantly....my problem) that others do not, and will not.

My whole thought process takes me back to God, JC and the Holy SPirit. I am solidly grounded in that...and beleive me i have had the worst of religion growing up. I still barf if I walk into a church that is 'preacher religious'. But that doens't mean that I don't have a personal relationship with JC, because that is what it is all about....to me anyway. See? Here I go again.

As I said, I don't mean any harm. I have gathered from your posts that you have had some horrible experiences in your past with religion. I understand that.

Take care,
omw

April 16, 2007
4:50 pm
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OMW

Thanks for your response. "IT's just the way I communicate."

Well, I guess that's why we are here. To learn to communicate directly.- that’s why I pointed out the reason for my confusion.

OMW- it just seems to me that the god you claim to believe in, the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient god really doesn't need all the defending. The godman can probably handle it, if He exists. If He needs to be defended, He's not really all that strong, is He? I've often wondered if the defenders of the faith really have that strong a faith.

I think the bible isn't such a great answer book - I believe it is woefully lacking in wisdom for modern day living. There is a lot of common sense and dietary precautions,genealogy, but there really isn't much in there- open to interpretation for the problems that folks face today. What to do in a domestic violence situation, when the head of the household is whooping up on a woman, when a child is abused by a parent. Sexually abused by a parent. It doesn't directly address the problems that we face with mental illnesses and chemical dependency. According to the bible, divorce is a sin, unless the wife is guilty of adultery. Drunkenness is one of the seven deadly sins. Sloth.

So in a way, the religious abuse I suffered as a child was good for me, because it taught me to look beyond the scripture, the hypocrisy and the rhetoric. So far, I haven't found much back there- behind the rhetoric.

I've noticed in my real life that a lot of folks turn to religion in the face of incomprehensible-seeming problems. This is what my mothe'’s family did because they did not know how to address the manic- depressiveness of my grandfather and of the suicides in the family. They just gave it to the lord in prayer, and devoted their lives to doing what their churches told them to do to be worthy of god'a love, and the lord didn't do anything. They either died crazy or medicated to the end, believing that their faith would heal them. This is what those pedophiles do- I had one for a roommate not so long ago, and he says god forgives him. Meanwhile, he perved online every chance he got, and the ky jelly he used for his webcam activities sat on top of his bible on his computer table. He now goes to prison chapel every Sunday, and has faith that he will be cured of his mental illness and the sexual abuse he suffered as a child.

I have a cousin that is paranoid schizophrenic, and he's "just waitin on the rapture". Alot of prisoners get religion after they are incarcerated, and I have noticed some addicts turn to god after they give up the chemical addiction. Like grabbing for a life raft in a sea of despair. Or switching addictions. Rapture in any form is addictive, isn't it?

Embracing religion is fine, but because it is focused on the external, a godman who tells the believer how and what to think, it doesn't really get to the root of the human behaviour that causes the problems that cause so much pain. All it can do is say "have faith", or "forgive".

What is the name of the CD you watched yesterday?

(((OMW)))

April 16, 2007
6:05 pm
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bevdee
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"Drunkenness is one of the seven deadly sins. Sloth."

Sorry - I got my seven deadlies mixed up. That should read gluttony.

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