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lets talk about talking about sex
November 3, 2003
3:41 pm
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eve
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I agree that our sex-life is an important part of life and that, of course, we sholud be able to discuss it.

But it sure feels weird to me, when I come to AAC to find almost only explicitly sexual headlines on this board.

So - how do you feel about this?
What would you like to or not like to talk about? Where/how would you draw the line?

For me its a very fine line between interestig (exciting even) and uncomfortable leaning towards yucky. And some of the posts in the "sexy" threads feel quite yucky to me.

November 4, 2003
3:48 pm
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Eve.

Well ... I guess that what is "yucky" to one person is "yummy" to another.

One thing about porn is that it highlights the tremendous width of the human spectrum of sexual preferences.

I saw on the free-to-air TV the other night a documentary about this guy who flew to Italy looking for a hairy woman. He just drooled over long black hair emanating from every pore of a woman's body. God knows what a female gorilla would have done for him.

Another list that I came across consisted of people turned on by amputees.

Not to mention foot fetishes, necrophilia, paedophilia, bestiality, scatology, the list goes on and on.

So much depends on those early formative years, wherein our first sexual experiences can indelibly imprint our future sexual preferences onto our mind.

"But for the grace of ... there go I"

I guess that tolerance of those with different sexual preferences, provided no child or non-consenting adult is at risk, is the least prerequisite for bringing love and compassion into our lives.

November 5, 2003
4:25 pm
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eve
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Tez,

you said: "I guess that tolerance of those with different sexual preferences, provided no child or non-consenting adult is at risk, is the least prerequisite for bringing love and compassion into our lives."

Yes, of course you are right. But being talked at, or reading things, looking at pictures is a situation where I *run into* sexual context unaware. I think that this can be a situation where I wouldn't consent to being exposed to this, only I wasn't aked.

For example when I hitchhiked through France, one of the drivers who gave me a ride had a hardcore porn on the front console. I hadn't seen that before I got in, or before we were on the road. This felt to me very much like *not* being a consenting adult.

I also don't like to be adressed in a sexual context by a total stranger, because I feel that for me, sexuality has to do whith my and the partners personalities and not just whith the fact that I happen to be female and have big boobs.

To give an example from the threads here: I was not overly interested in learning that arwen thinks that she can give every woman an orgasm, orally. I mean - I don't know her, why would I be interested in her sexual potency?

Its nothing really seriously worrying me, but ist bordering on the uncomfortable, and therefore I think its worthwhile to explore.

November 5, 2003
5:09 pm
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Eve.

I take your point. This is a problem in a supposedly democratic society.

Complete freedom for everyone to do what they like means no freedom for anyone. Somewhere between complete and no freedom of speech lies a very grey area.

The problem then becomes 'who defines the borders of the 'grey area'. Not very long ago publicly using the word 'fuck' was enough to land a person in jail. Now it is common place to hear young girls using that word in their everyday speech.

Social morays are fluxing and changing at an ever increasing rate. Yesterday's porn is today's art. I suppose that it is the intention that underlies the word usage that is now the criterion.

The difficulty then arises of what intentions we attribute to whom. The 'Fundamental Attribution Error' then rears its ugly head. For example, you might have attributed a sexually predatory disposition to the driver of the car containing the porn in the front of his car. You may have felt at risk by rightly or wrongly surmising that he had sexual intentions underpinning his 'generosity' in giving you a lift. His situational factors may have included the responsibility delivering the porn to the local government censor as evidence against the magazine. On the other hand, beinf of a 'seedy' disposition', he may have wrongly surmised that all girls hitchhiking were 'easy' and free with their sexual favors.

In aspiring to live a happy fear free life, I guess what is crucial for me is that I obtain reasonable evidence before ascribing negative intentions to others. I often fail in doing this to my own detriment.

I guess that I've mellowed to the point that little that anyone writes really phases me much.

I guess that in discussing this issue, you are trying to get some consensus from the people here on where the borders of the 'grey area' lie. Phew!! If I have assessed your intentions correctly, that is some task that you have set for yourself. I must be the only one 'game' enough to respond. 🙂

November 5, 2003
5:25 pm
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Ladeska
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You know, this happens from time to time when the boards are more about one thing than something else. This has happened a few times and I remember some very sexual ones, especially in the Blondie era.

And okay fine, it's something to talk about like anything else, a normal part of our existence, understand that. But there are some things that I feel very uncomfortable reading about and don't need to know about someone else's sex life in that kind of detail, and I personally think it can get to a point of inappropriate for the boards. I mean you do have to think about other people who are reading and viewing things and sometimes kids are reading, really young ones, or people with abuse issues that this may trigger or may make them leary now of certain people on the site reading their stuff and actually be quite afraid to post because of that.

I think as in all things, we need to try and be temperate with things, considerate, using common sense and also realizing this isn't exactly a closed little room here where we can just get down and dirty for the sake of going there. We should have more responsibility about things than that.

All that being said, sexuality can and should be talked about, absolutely. But like now - it may be a bit much for some and it will make some people feel very uncomfortable - but not unlike some other issues that are raised from time to time that might make other people feel uncomfortable for different reasons and have different triggers going off.

Basically, that's life on the web, wherever you go. You're exposed and other people expose things to you also. Like freaking pop-up ads all the time! God I hate those! Leave me the hell alone! If I want to see what you look like in a thong - I'll go look for YOU guys! Otherwise, do not invade my privacy!!

Sorry, got carried away there...(smile)

Alot of times, if I read something that I don't care for and it doesn't light me up personally, I just leave it alone and differ to the SC to do whatever she deems appropriate. It is her board and I respect that.

But sometimes these things just kind of run their course. People talk things out, do whatever they need to do and maybe without too much fallout - things just resume to normal with a few less or minus some wear and tear. For the most part here I think we do really well. We've had our moments and all that but - this is quite the melting pot of personalities, differences, cultures, etc. By in large, I think we respect each other alot. Everyone gets out of hand now and then. We all do and we're responsible for our actions when we do. SC does jerk our chain.

But I think it's very important for YOU to feel free enough to come here and get validation for your uncomfortable feelings and get attention and feedback about that. You're not attacking anyone, you're just expressing your own feelings and maybe anxieties about it all. And I've certainly had times myself on here when I've read something and went - well that's the very LAST thing I needed to hear or read right now and talk about trigger - there it went!! But, those are my hurts, my problems and as long as someone else isn't intentionally or grossly going out of line with things - then I have to be responsible for my own stuff, too and then I just don't go read there again. They can talk about whatever - minus me.

It's hard in this venue of communication though. It's not like being in a real time and space room with people in front of you and all that. Kinda tough sometimes.

November 5, 2003
5:37 pm
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eve
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Tez,

"I guess that in discussing this issue, you are trying to get some consensus from the people here on where the borders of the 'grey area' lie. " Nah - not really consensus. I would really be interested where others have their borders, yes - no big need to agree upon. I just realized that there is something bothering me, and got the feeling that it is bothering others, too. And I found that it is a good rule of thumb to go and have a closer look at what makes me feel uneasy.

AND looking at the things that make me just *uneasy* is often more fruitful that looking at the things that make me fucking *furious* - easier to get a focus :). Sometimes I need to chill out whith the furious things until they become just weary and annoying - then I can have a closer look at them, too.

You already helped me understand my feelings quite a lot by bringing me to think about "consent".

November 5, 2003
7:35 pm
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arwen
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Hello to all,

Though this might sound stupid and/or surprising, it didn't occur to me that there would be such a significant number of people feeling upset about the sexual posts on the threads. I know there have been times when someone has said something, and I do mean literally said, and I've sort of cringed and thought "Wow. That was way too much information!" I haven't had that personal experience here, and so I foolishly assumed that others wouldn't either. I mean, sure, there are sometimes things I read that I don't feel too comfortable with, but I can always respond from my own perspective, or choose not to follow that thread anymore, or both.

It is disconcerting to know that people have inadvertently run into things on these threads and felt a form of perpetration. I am sorry for anything I said that made anyone feel uncomfortable.

I am a pretty open person---maybe too open. I need to explore this. Why is it easy to talk about my sexuality and harder to talk about other things? Is it because I feel confident in my sexuality, or because somewhere inside of myself I believe that my value as a person is based on my sexuality?

I will say that one thing regarding our society in general that frustrates the hell out of me is the sexualization of the human body. There are many cultures where nudity is the norm, and people don't walk around all day aghast or excited about seeing someone naked. A body is a body, not a sexual object in these cultures. Imagine what sex would be like in a culture like this? Where the focus was on the emotional aspects because the physical aspects were just not the primary focus.

I think when we focus on the human body, clothing, and tie it all in with sexuality it can create a very dangerous, down-right explosive cocktail. I feel like that's where the "she had it coming" attitude stems from if a woman is sexually assaulted--she looked hot, what did she expect? I don't know if I'm making sense here. Don't know how much of this issue is cultural and how much is personal.

I do want to own any part I had in making others uncomfortable, however, and I will work hard not to do so in the future.

Respectfully,

Arwen

November 6, 2003
3:17 pm
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eve
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Thats what I intended whith this thread.

Arwen, you said "Why is it easy to talk about my sexuality and harder to talk about other things? " For me its the other way round, I am very closed about my sexuality, unless I know a person very well. That doesn't mean that I'm shy or closed once I'm in a sexually intimate situation. But I have to have a good secure feeling, before I feel inclined to get downd an boogie. I guess for me sex is 'serious' and sometimes when I see people be very flippant or flirty I have the feeling that they aren't takeing this seriously enough. Silly - or am I right? I guess mainly I am just like I am.

November 13, 2003
2:13 pm
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mj
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Ok...count me in. Let's talk 🙂

Ok...here I am at work....and what if someone walks in and see's this title...that's one of the things that really bothers me right now. It doesn't seem at all professional for me to be dealing with this at work.

November 13, 2003
2:47 pm
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eve
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so - do you agree that 'consenting' to sexual context would be a good point to start thinking about?

So many of the pictures in the media, especially in advertising have a sexual innuendo. We just got used to it. What's different when the communication is more explicit?

November 13, 2003
3:38 pm
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mj
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Consenting to discuss sex is mutually agreed upon.

I also agree that the media is desensitizing us by what we view constantly vie television, advertisements, billboards, clothing ads, and lyrics in our music.

November 13, 2003
3:44 pm
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I feel uncomfortable hearing about sexual communciations. I feel intruded upon. Amost violated.

November 13, 2003
6:02 pm
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Mj.
To what is it, to which you are attached, that you feel is under threat and almost violated?

November 13, 2003
8:56 pm
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mj
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Good Question Tez. Why do I feel intruded upon here at the AAC when seeing all the threads....about sex.
This site has become my safe place. A place where I share, vent, and explore. I guess I felt that my safe place had been violated by threads talking about sex.

November 13, 2003
9:56 pm
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I am attached to my sexual privacy, I guess. I wonder why others are able to explore their sexual nature like it is instructions for baking a cake which isn't very personal at all to me. So, here I am, wondering why I was initially offended and trying to understand myself better. I think that you have had clear sight into your nature as expressed so bluntly which is great. I can relate to and admire your personal journey. I guess that my ability to share this most private part of me is more guarded.

November 14, 2003
12:16 am
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gosh. In about a few weeks time, i'll be meeting with a woman i love a lot... and we'll have be having lots of sex (she's very sexy). we have things in common.. now pray for some great sessions of *lovemaking*.

wouldnt that just be *great*. Hmmm

do i love her for sex? partly.. but its more than that, still, its nothing complicated. Its just. .she's a nice person and she loves me too and trusts me.. and we both trust each other.
Trust is a big issue.. i guess.

November 14, 2003
8:16 am
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mj
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So guest, do you think she would mind you telling us that?

November 14, 2003
3:17 pm
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bel
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MJ I sort of feel the same way you do with seeing all these threads about the sexual feelings and such. IM not comfortable discussing to much in that area out in the open. I just steer clear of them.

November 14, 2003
3:49 pm
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Mj.

About me, there isn't much that I would care about having splashed across the news media. It wasn't always that way. But nowadays, I've come to the very deep realization that it is this sense of 'selfdom' that causes me suffering.

When the word 'ego' is used, most people think of egotists that they know or egomaniacs in general. In a more subtle definition, the ego is any part of our mindset that sets us apart from others and the universe in general. It is these aspects, the ego, that is what we feel compelled to protect and defend. Thus when we feel that our ego boundaries have been violated we feel 'uncomfortable' at one extreme and downright enraged at the other.

When it comes to our sexuality, we are even more 'ego conscious'. The interesting thing is that swaggering, hard-bitten men who discuss their sex life openly in the most vulgar way, will often be seen in the public urinals turning away so that other men will not see their penis size! I'm sure that even the most coursely spoken women have their sensitivities when it comes right down to the ego protecting their womanhood.

Some people even see ego strength as a virtue. I see it as a prison warden that keeps us from our much deserved liberation. This is not implying that I think we should rush out and tell the world all about our tiolet practices, etc. I guess that, to avoid giving offence, we have to respect the ego boundaries of others whilst at the same time dismantling our own.

One thing about this thread is that it provides an anonymous and therefore safe place to push our ego boundaries out by making unconfortable disclosures of any kind - sexual or otherwise. Whilst voyeurism is always a risk, the benefits are also there to be had. It is our secrets, the things that we dread others ever finding out about us, that reinforce the walls that separate us. I guess that we all cherish the non-disclosure of at least one or two of these.

November 14, 2003
3:53 pm
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Hi Bel! How are you. You posted just a few seconds before I did.

November 14, 2003
3:56 pm
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Guest_guest.

Congrats! You found yourself a nice lady. Good for you, mate.

November 14, 2003
4:17 pm
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bel
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Hi Tez, IM doing okay and you?

Have some health probs but doing okay otherwise.

Some days are more of a struggle than others but we have to work at our issues as they come right? I have become more vocal on these boards and at home not letting things go by now without commenting and thats getting me in hot water I think. But If I dont take care of myself who will?

Take Care Tez..........:-)

Bel

November 14, 2003
7:11 pm
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hi MJ, i didnt understand what you asked.

thanks Tez. lets see what happens.
we had known each other for quite some while on the internet.. our experiences in life matched where it mattered to me the most.. we talked, she was a nice person, she trusted me - a few years ago, i would have withdrawn suddenly saying "no! she doesnt know the real me" and i would have pushed her back - this happened in just 1999 so now i've improved.

i embraced her trust and love and gave it back to her.. in little calm steps.. so far its great.

falling in love isnt science.. or anything magical? its just 2 nice people trusting and not disliking each other, thats all there is to it, in my opinion.
attraction between the 2 sexes is natural, its like magnets.. nothing magical in that.. thats just part of nature.
anyway.. atleast good romance and sex will be coming out of this "relationship".. i hope i dont hurt her and it keeps going on as it is.

i've told her, the desire for sex is a seperate thing, i dont want love to be mixed in with that. the love should always be there, with or without the sex.

November 15, 2003
10:59 am
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mj
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Tez, I appreciate your willingness to try to get me to look at myself by explaining how you see things.

I will consider your remarks. Just privately for now.

Guest...much happiness is wished for you.

November 15, 2003
11:03 am
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mj
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Eve, thanks for trying to talk to me about talking about sex. I tried.
Hugs

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