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Kroiks!!!!
July 17, 2008
11:02 pm
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healintime
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Hello lovely,

I've missed you too and haven't been here in aeons - whole host of reasons but partly because I haven't seen folks that I felt close to back in the day the few times I've swung by.

We lost my Mom at the start of June. Sudden, unexpected, grisly and it was just the two of us at home when it happened. I am .... not at all sure how I'm doing. Hardest year of my life and the greif is a whole new animal. I was primary caretaker for the year and not happily so for the last few months - both my folks just checked out completely on acknowledging my Mom's needs or making any kind of plan - so in some ways, after years and years of healing it was back to the very worst of times again right at the end. I hope that she knew how much I loved her and I wish that I hadn't campaigned so hard for getting outside care and had just accepted teh situation and spent some better quality time with her. Hard to do that when you're nursing someone 24/7 and watching them deteriorate, alone.

I know that you lost your own Mom a few years back so anything you can tell me about coming to terms and grieving peacefully would be so appreciated. I have missed you my friend.

K-hugs,

H x

July 17, 2008
11:38 pm
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((((healin))))

Thanks for the hug, and here's a big one back at you. My deepest condolences to you on losing your Mom. It's over 13 years now since my mother died... and nearly 8 years since my sister died... and over 3 years since my dad died. And the grief was a little different with each one. In only my sister's case was I actively involved with her care immediately prior to her death - and I relate to you there, about that having a very specific kind of impact.

My mother's death was hard for me partly because although she'd been having "health issues" for some time, she'd been relatively stable and died suddenly, with me living across the country. I certainly didn't have the situation that you did, of having nursed your mom 24/7 alone, and watched her deteriorate. However, I did feel tremendous guilt over the quality of my last few phone calls with my mother, and the last in-person visit we'd had, several months before she died.

I had several "dream visits" from her after her death, and somehow I became infused with the feeling that at the time of death, any lingering imperfections in our relationship were swept away. I was filled with the conviction that at death, she understood the truth of everything completely, and all that was left was love. This feels very true to me, and it is the reality I accept.

I hope that something similar will come to feel true for you too; that you can forgive yourself for decisions you questioned in retrospect, and believe that underneath everything and anything else, your mother knew you loved her, and she loved you too.

I don't know that I have any particular wisdom to offer about grieving... nothing off the top of my head, but I'd be very happy to talk about it with you on this thread if you want to. Now that I know this thread is here, I'll keep my eyes out for you in the next while. Otherwise I tend not to come here regularly.

big hug and lots of love to you, dear healin

kroiks xox

July 18, 2008
7:30 am
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needtoheal
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Good to see you Kousin Kroika..

Been thinking about you.. wondering how you are..

Maybe we can get something sparked up again in the kitchen? Does this mean that its open regularly?

(((((( Kousin Kroika )))))

July 18, 2008
11:23 am
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Hi Need,

Thanks for that extra-squooshy hug! Just what the doktor ordered :~) I'm not sure I'm up for regular residence in the kitchen these days.... but thanks for dropping in here and saying hi. It's always nice to see old friends :o)

And healin,

I have an excellent book recommendation for you: Healing through the Dark Emotions: The wisdom of grief, fear and despair by Miriam Greenspan (2003, Shambhala Books). I bought this book a few years ago and underlined and highlighted many passages in it that were helpful to me. Maybe you will find it of some help to you too, if you can lay your hands on a copy.

Hugs to both of you,

and kisses from k :o)

July 18, 2008
5:23 pm
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Ah Kroiks,

Thank you lovely, and thank you for the book recommendation. I am so sorry for all your losses - that's a lot of grief. I think I might be able to understand why they were all a little different - partly because it's recently struck me that we don't know how we're going to respond to loss until the loss happens. People are grieving all over the place here in ways that I would never have expected and almost none of it is in character. Howsabout that ...

I've read a few memoirs and "guides" to grieving - and because I was worried about PTSD from the death itself (it was totally out of the box and very, very rough to be there) I'm in counselling. However .... there's not much out there that specifically addresses how to make peace when the relationship has been complex, so I'll track down what sounds like a great book as soon as I can.

I loved, and love, my Mum deeply. I had come to a good place with her, finally, after trying to unlearn some behaviors that I made a good stag at understanding over many years. My Mum lost her Dad at 14 and had to raise her 11 year old sister when her own Mother went into a deep depression that she was eventually hospitalised, and drugged heavily, over. And that had a profound effect on how my Mum dealt with the world. I am 33 - I have spent a good deal of time trying to learn about coping skills, how to relate, feeling feelings ... and with all that under my belt, Mum's death has been devastating. I can't imagine going throug this at 14 and having to parent both my parent and younger sister at the same time (Mum dropped out of school to go to work and keep house).

Buuuuuttt.... the worst of my Mum's coping methods got sparked off again - and frankly so did mine. I overfunctioned like a maniac in the beginning and then I ran out of steam. But I was open about how unhealthy it all was and the response was - nada. I am not prioud of my behavior at times - I was short with my family and really angry at being in the position I was in. But it was a choice. And I have to accept responsibility for it. My counsellor pointed out that no matter how hard it got, I couldn't leave her in a house alone (she just wouldn't accept outside care) and given that she was as weak as a newborn by the end, that my response was based on love. I think and hope that it was. It was very tired, battered, frighhtened love - but I did my best and I hope that I learned some things.

Right now, nobody can give me peace but me - and unfortunately, I can feel the wheels spinning again. Aaaallll the things that I did wrong. But I did a lot of things right, for both of us. And she wasn't alone when she passed - and that is the final gift that I had to give her.

Ugh - this is a ramble. Aren't you glad you swung by? 😉 I can understand not wanting to open the kitchen permanently again - but it is so, so nice to see you. How's work? A? (I'm not sure whether you are still seeing him, it really has been a long time) and the world of K in general? Well I hope.

July 18, 2008
9:22 pm
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Hi healin!

Yes, I am very glad I swung by :o) ((((healin)))) I wouldn't call your post a 'ramble' - there's lots to tell and you and I are detail persons. HSP, remember! That's a lot to process, that you figured out over the years about your mother's life. It sounds like she had a very hard row to hoe, with repercussions resonating down through the generations.

I'm glad to hear you are getting counselling support from someone whom it sounds like you trust and respect. That's so important. I do think you will find the Miriam Greenspan book valuable as she is very cognizant of the complexity of life and relationships and emotions. I've just been skimming through my copy that I pulled off the shelf to give you the retrieval info about... and I think it wouldn't be bad for me to re-read it as well.

"The world of K in general" has unfortunately suffered some more losses in recent times. To bring you up to date.... in late autumn, there was a traumatic death by suicide in my family, which has caused an ongoing nightmare for one of my very nearest and dearest relatives. So I have been trying to give as much support as I can.

I was still seeing A at that time, but things fell apart with him and we broke up just before Christmas. In a very strange cosmic twist, the first time I bumped into him after that was a few months later, at the funeral of a mutual acquaintance. (That was a very sudden and unexpected death of someone I was becoming good friends with..... so yes, another real loss.)

So it's been a time of rebuilding for me. After the relationship with A ended, I found a couple of websites that have been extremely helpful for me in understanding sex addiction/ pornography addiction and healing from the effects his addiction had on me as a partner. Also, I decided to devote time to my own health and fitness, which had kind of fallen off the back burner. So I've been working with a personal trainer at my gym and I'm happy to say that I'm probably more physically fit than I've ever been. Can't complain about the endorphins either :o)

Work.... is the same old same old pretty much. What can I say but I'm grateful for the financial stability it gives me.

Hey friend, it's good to get caught up with you. And now I have to dash off to the gym! I hope you can find that book and that it's helpful to you.

take good care of you,

love, kroiks

July 19, 2008
4:06 pm
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Healintime,

I wanted to give you a hug (((Healin))). I lost a loved one to death this spring. I sure don't have any words of wisdom, but I had thought of you from time to time. I send you some good thoughts in your bereavement.

Love to you

July 19, 2008
7:28 pm
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well hello there, Miss Bev!

Very nice to see you here, and around. It feels like "old home week" a bit...

Well, since we're here - (((bev))) (((healin))) (((need))) - hugs all round :o)

take good care, my friends.

July 20, 2008
7:36 pm
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Ah Kroika, Bev,

I'm so sorry for your loss(es). Suicide must bring with it such a complex, complex grieving process - I can't even begin to imagine. Bev, i know that last year you had an ill family member and I also know that you were close to him - I don't remember any other details but I hope that you're doing okay and that it was a peaceful passing.

Ms. K, you have had such a lot happening - I am kind of in awe, actually. I look at the last few years and so many people I know have had a dismantling/rebuilding of their lives in every which way. Divorces, bereavements, illnesses, retrenchments - I don't know what the Universe is up to, but I'm trying hard to go along with the ride. I love that you're going to the gym - I need a something to re-boot me at the moment and some physical fitness would be grand. I've just started yoga and love it for the relaxation - but after a year of running on fumes, I would love to feel energetic and bouncy in the way that you do when you exercise regularly. I'm not there yet and am moving extreeeemely slowly, but I'll know when it's time.

Thank you againg for the Miriam Greenspan recommendation - she has a fantastic Web site with oodles of excerpts and I love her take. Oh yes indeedy I am HSP personified. If I needed a final certificate, I think it arrived along with the relentless, constant, unannounced drop ins that arrived at the house in the first few weeks after my Mother died.

After a year alone at home with her, with virtual tumble weeds blowing through the house, having up to 10 unwelcome visitors knocking on the door every day to offer "comfort" almost did me in. I eventually turned off the phone, locked the door and put in ear plugs for a few days. Literally. Total sensory overload. We had some not very helpful visitors arrive for three whole weeks from overseas (?????) Totally okay to want to come to the funeral, not so much the imposing for almost a month at the most sensitive of times. I understand completely that some (most?) people would want to feel surrounded by well-wishers but I am not that girl. When I finally got a moment alone with myself it was for the first time in many, many months and it was bittersweet to say the least, but necessary.

One final thought - my counselor, the Greenspan book and every piece of grieving literature I've read encourages just letting the feelings flow. It's mind-blowing to me how much of a contrast ther eis to "traditional" therapy that encourages you to find ways to make you feel better. And when I do let the feelings flow, and do it in a non-judgmental way, lo and behold, I feel calmer and more peaceful. This is the worst way to find wisdom - but I am pretty sure that a good deal of agita from the last two decades of my life could have been avoided if I'd applied the same principle of non-judgement and release to my feelings about the big ticket items.

Onwards and sideways, it's good to hear your voices ladies. You've been missed.

H x

July 20, 2008
7:54 pm
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(((( Kousin Kroika)) -- I can understand not opening the kitchen.. Just thought that i would at least mention it... Since PS has been out of the house, I have been doing a lot of research and have made friends with many who understand either firsthand or the affects of sex addiction/pornography.. Has given me the light about PS and his lack of intimacy in a relationship. He even told me a few weeks ago that he cannot maintain an erection even while he masterbates...

((( Bev))-- good seeing ya...

((healin))) -- I can understand about letting the feelings flow... So hard to do but necessary for healing.....

Hugs to all....

July 21, 2008
2:24 am
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hey Need,

good to see you here again. I am glad you have been finding your research into porn addiction useful. There's beginning to be quite a bit of info about it. As yet though, there doesn't seem to be much understanding out there in society in general. I have certainly had an education that I never imagined having :-0

(((Need))) hugs back to you!

July 21, 2008
2:45 am
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Hey Healin -

The passing was peaceful, but all that lead up to it was painful. I am relieved that he is no longer in pain. That knowledge lessens mine. I am actually (most days) lighter than I was before, dreading his passing and imagining his pain. Thank you. I missed your clear voice, too.

Need - good to see you. I'm glad to read that you are moving further away, emotionally, from PS. (((Need)))

July 21, 2008
2:18 pm
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and (((healin)))

so good to hear back from you. "Onwards and sideways"... ha, I like that :o)

Oh yeah, I can just imagine what a torment it was to be deluged with all those folks after your mother's death. I'm glad you were able to create some space for yourself to decompress, finally.

I'll have to check out Miriam Greenspan's website. I found her book very HSP-friendly, so it's nice to know she has a home on the web as well.

Good luck with getting re-booted with physical fitness. I've never been able to get very far with yoga, although its many benefits are well-publicized. I will try again sometime, though.

When you feel the time is right for the more cardio-intensive exercise, I do highly recommend working with a trainer if you have that opportunity. I can't believe what a difference it has made for me; I consider this investment one of the best I have ever made. And on that note, I better get myself out from in front of this computer!

Lovely to "see" you again.... be well!

kisses, kroiks

July 22, 2008
12:05 pm
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(((((((((((KROIKA)))))))))))

July 22, 2008
4:10 pm
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((((Friendma)))) you are a sweetie :o)

Hope all is well with you.

July 26, 2008
3:22 pm
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hey friends, especially Need -

Need, I haven't seen you posting on the "Narcissists" thread over on the support side, so I don't know if you're reading it. I think you might find some of the discussion and info references valuable to you in helping understand PS.

One of the books I've been reading is called Disarming the Narcissist: Surviving & Thriving with the Self-Absorbed by Wendy T. Behary. She mentions that one particular kind of narcissist, which she identifies as the "deprived-dependent" kind, can be prone to becoming addicted to self-soothing behaviors, including pornography (pg 16 in the book).

I have been finding that the information about narcissism is shedding light from a different direction on my understanding of my exbf, A. You might find some helpful nuggets as well, so do check it out if you haven't already.

(((hugs to all)))

July 29, 2008
8:40 am
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Thanks for the book recc. Kroiks - I've just had an all too familiar experience that has me scratching my head wondering how on earth I manage to find the -exact- same person every three years (anyone ever had that? name and face changes but same guy).

I applied for, and won, a scholarship to do my PhD, starting in June. Good news - except that the paperwork was held up and my notification arrived three weeks after Mum died. When I opened the envelope I didn't have the warm fuzzies I should have and it was a big, red flag.

My motivation for taking another degree right now was largely so I could do something from home that would keep my head busy while I cared for Mum. No longer valid - and after a huge amount of soul searching I realised that it just didn't feel like the right time to be doing a solo, self-directed, three year project. Now that I'm free to leave the house and am dealing with the emotional fallout of grief and carer burnout I am happy to do some contract work while I regroup. And I need to be around people otherwise I'm just going to isolate my way through this.

The guy I've been assisting for the last year (head of a research institute at my university) is disproportionately furious at my decision. Incandescent. Telling people that he is "too angry to talk about me" when they ask how I'm doing. ?????????????? I worked for him for a year and we've had a great relationship. He is incredilbly demanding and extremely disorganised - but I managed to keep reasonably good boundaries and have gone above and beyond, especially considering my circumstances.

I was told (belatedly) that he wanted to secure extra government funding for the institute on the back of my thesis topic - and that was a part of my having second thoughts. I didn't sign up to be poster child for the institute and it was a federal government scholarship with a small top-up from his section of the University.

So his reaction is basically backlash at him not getting his way. We had one phone conversation when I was leaning towards a "no" in which he dismissed every single reason I had for reconsidering and told me, literally, that I "obviously had no idea what was best" for me. Ooooh no you didn't ... I've heard that one before.

I feel like the biggest idiot - I thought he was a mentor and a friend and I look back at all the times I stayed up til midnight over this last year to meet above and beyond demands while trying to juggle full time cancer care. I've made a decision for myself that every other academic I work with thinks is "wise" "sound" or "a no-brainer" given the timing and the one person who I thought was most likely to be empathetic is ....

That guy. Again. I'm choosing self care and he is furious.

I'm trying not to let it get to me - and am doing a better job than I would have two, or four, years ago. But there really are people out there who are that self-centred. I don't know that he's a classic N but I do know that he expected for me to do a htree year degree because it was in line with his own plans.

This was a giant vent - I'll be getting that book out of the library and talking to my counsellor about how to have my magnetic narcissist chip removed. Will keep you posted.

Hugs,

H x

July 29, 2008
8:47 am
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P.S. Should point out that the red flags were there - my role with him was 20 hours a week of research from home that became a half day on campus and 20 hours from home .. Then work emails on the weekend. Truthfully, I'm feeling pretty stupid at not noticing what was happening sooner.

July 29, 2008
10:33 am
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Kroika--

Thank you for pointing me in the direction...

I am still reading that book by Lundy Bancroft as well, Why Does He do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men...

In so many ways I know that it is helpful to have more knowledge in understanding FORMER partners.. to see the behavior, patterns, and understand that this is NOT something that I would ever want to choose to be involved with again...

I am done, Kousin Kroika. I am on my way to healing... I am no longer looking through those rose-tinted glasses.. nor living with the illusion that things will one day change. Life is too short...

I have a whole lot of living to do on this planet...

Thanks Kousin.. I will certainly check it out..

Hugs,
NEED

July 30, 2008
2:58 am
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quick response to Need, and then a longer one to healin shortly....

Need, I'm glad you came and checked out the Narcissists thread. Nice to see you posting there.

I wanted to also say that I think you might get a lot out of the partners' workshop at RecoveryNation.com. Even if your relationship is really over, there are some really valuable exercises for partners of sex addicts to do at that website. It will help you clarify your own values and learn how to define and maintain strong boundaries to protect yourself in future relationships. I highly recommend it - I've gotten a huge amount out of it.

July 30, 2008
4:13 am
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Hi healin...

OK, maybe this won't be a longer response to you. Now, having read your post I see that you mainly wanted to vent - and understandably so!! :-0

So maybe all I need to say is... good luck with getting that N-magnet chip removed ;~) and yes please, do keep us posted on how that goes! (And please pass along any non-surgical wisdom impartd by your counsellor :o)

It's pretty late here so I'll sign off. Hugs back atcha,

kroiks

July 30, 2008
5:51 pm
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healintime
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Thank you lovely,

Yes, it was a vent - maybe a little Mea Culpa? It's unsettling that no matter how much I "know" - I can still attract, (or maybe even be drawn to?) a certain type of person.

What I do know is that three years ago his reaction might have been enough to steer me in the direction of starting the program - so maybe that's progress. And as of yesterday, I've been asked to teach a postgrad class in my specialty, which will be familiar and just the right size for now. Truth is that some days I'm still pretty much a wreck. And that's okay.

My counsellor's take is that self care is always a good thing - and as for "attracting" the same person - her take is that it's a matter of not rejecting them. Which is a brand new idea for me. She says that they're out there, hovering, and that everyone runs across them. It's apparently a matter of rejecting them when you start to see the red flags. I'm going to have to keep working on that one 😉 But good to know that I don't have a homing device.

H xoxox

July 30, 2008
7:10 pm
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As far as "attracting" the same person - her take is that it's a matter of not rejecting them. Which is a brand new idea for me. She says that they're out there, hovering, and that everyone runs across them. It's apparently a matter of rejecting them when you start to see the red flags"...

Healin--

How I quite understand what you are saying... It is quite a brand new Idea for me as well... "It's apparently a matter of rejecting them when you start to see the red flags"....

Thanks for sharing this..

Hugs,
NEED

July 30, 2008
7:12 pm
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needtoheal
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My dearest kousin--

Thanks so much for sharing the website information.... This is something that I have been looking for 4 a very long time... Thank you

🙂

Hugs,
NEED

July 31, 2008
12:14 pm
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Need,

You are most welcome. If you work through the lessons in the Partner's workshop, I think you will be amazed at the positive changes in your life. I have been!

.

Healin,

Well that's a relief - no surgery necessary! And yes, please go ahead and take credit for making progress. It is very significant progress that you did not let this research head's anger steer you toward a decision that is not right for you. Yay, healin!!

I'm so glad to hear of this other opportunity that has turned up, that is "just the right size for now". Enjoy! And do not stint on the self-care :o)

kisses from kroiks

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