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kroika's essay: Pornography and Sexual Health
February 26, 2007
10:08 pm
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My 2 cents: there is a difference between "privacy" and "secrecy".

February 26, 2007
10:18 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi Kroika:

Yes, there is a difference between privacy and secrecy.

BTW, this interaction between us can be fun, you know. It's only us and AAC here.

I am the kind of person that will die without humor. As in the worms crawl in and the worms crawl out, dead as a doornail, boo-hoo we barely knew him.

I know for a fact that I am not the only human being ever born to understand that: The topic of Human Sexuality is pretty damn funny!

And my study of pornography has proven that to me--"pounded the point home," if you like.

Maybe I am the only one in the history of the world who has noticed--people are funny!

I personally believe that the recognition of that reality is a fundamental psychological and spiritual developmental milestone.

February 27, 2007
12:05 am
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WD,

{"I think that privacy does not apply to sexual relationships"

I think that is sick and wrong. }

I think I didn't express myself clearly. A couple is definitely entitled to privacy from the rest of the world in their sexual relationship, but sexual partners should not have sexual secrets from each other.

Does that sound better?

February 27, 2007
12:06 am
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WD,

Bang! Bang! Bang!

Oops. Sorry to hit your triggers. :o)

February 27, 2007
12:54 am
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Hi Seek,

Well, it's hard to miss them--their about five feet long and fashioned from cat whiskers.

April 2, 2007
10:56 pm
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I keep wishing this issue will go away... and it keeps not going away. Here's an excerpt and link from a report written by a young woman on a conference she attended about pornography. The full report is hard (as in painful) but important reading.

Note for those who have not seen this thread title before: it's part of a longer thread from last summer. To see the essay I wrote and the subsequent discussion, scroll to the top of the screen and click "view all posts" on the left-hand side.

. . .

"Robert Wosnitzer, Ana Bridges, and Michelle Chang gave a presentation on the research project they had done - analyzing the violence/aggression in 50 pornography films (selected randomly from a pool of the 275 most popular).

Their research hasn't yet been published so I'm not clear on whether or not I'm allowed to post the results of it here, the notes I took from their slides... but in summary, they counted over 3,000 acts of verbal and physical aggression in these 50 films, which averaged about 11 acts of aggression per scene. And 95% of the time, the recipient of the aggression (who was female 94% of the time) responded with neutrality or pleasure.

They also searched for/analyzed *positive* behaviors in these 50 films, and found that positive behaviors were only present in 9.9% of scenes. There were about 2 caresses, 2 or 3 kisses, and about 5 compliments from a man to a woman. That is, they found that the most popular pornography films were overwhelmingly full of male aggression against women, and that positive behaviors from men were very, very rare."

This is from "Women (and Men) Say No to Porn: Report on the Feminist Anti-Pornography Conference at Wheelock College"

The full text article can be found at
http://womensspace.wordpress.c.....k-college/

April 3, 2007
3:13 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Problem with the study best I can tell is that the author is basically lying through her teeth.

April 3, 2007
3:15 pm
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Worried_Dad
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For example I notice that she does not list the Title or Publisher of these so-called 275 "most popular movies."

April 3, 2007
3:47 pm
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She writes:
"With that many men, consuming that much pornography - pornography that includes an average of 11 male acts of aggression against women per scene, with the women acting like they enjoy it 95% of the time… Is it any WONDER that men, as a whole, treat women like shit??

One huge thing wrong with this statement is the assertion that "men, as a whole, treat women like shit."

I am not aware of any study supporting that statement. In fact--on the face of it--the statement is patently false.

The author uses one falsehood as an explanation for another falsehood.

April 3, 2007
3:53 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I am simply astonished at the lousy scientific, political, and educational ethics of the organizers of that conference.

April 4, 2007
3:26 pm
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I dont know...I think I am a little like the author. I dont have lots of scientific research evidence to back up my gut feelings. I consider myself feminist but not strident. I enjoy erotica.

But the level of violence I see in pornographic materials, the degradation and subjegation of women, the ways that men's needs are shown as paramount and women's irrelevent......leaves me feeling put down and uncomfortable.

I have seen little evidence of this material even acknowledging that a woman might have sexual needs much less catering to it. Why is that I wonder?

I think most of it puts women in a subordinate position and frankly, I am fed up with feeling subordinate

April 5, 2007
5:55 pm
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sleepless in uk
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And I know that nobody can make us feel inferior without our consent....at least that is what they tell us......

But I never want my daughters to feel inferior to anyone because they are women. And I think that is what a lot of porn tells us....whatever might be argued about consenting adults.... that is not what comes across to me.

April 6, 2007
3:29 pm
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hi sleepless,

Thanks for making the effort to write. I appreciate your sharing how it feels to raise children (especially daughters) in the kind of sexual climate that exists today. Not an endeavour for the faint of heart!

WD, your comments are awfully sloppy. The author of the report I posted a link to, is not the author of the study. She clearly states that. How you conclude that she is "lying through her teeth" about the experience that she had at the conference she attended... is your own triggered business, I suppose.

As always, I post this material for the benefit of those whose lives are being adversely affected by pornography in some way.

April 6, 2007
9:13 pm
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I stand corrected Kroikster,

It is the organizers of the conference and the people that did the survey of the "most popular" porn that I have an issue with--for example, they not only mislead some women but also traumatized them in order to make their gruesome and fallacious point. That is pretty darn unethical.

May 2, 2007
5:39 pm
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Hi again...

There is a new poster on the support side who states her marriage is being destroyed by her husband's use of porn.

I am pulling this thread back up for her to read.

Londondreamer, if you scroll to the top of the screen, at the left hand side click on "view all posts" and you will see the essay I wrote after doing some research on pornography -- and the ensuing discussion. I hope you will find at least some of it useful.

May 6, 2007
4:32 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Which support thread?

May 6, 2007
8:23 pm
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hey, dadster

Haven't seen you round these parts for awhile. (And speaking of 'parts', you must have heard us talking about you over at the Donkey Genitals Appreciation Society. Still waiting for you to start that new thread...)

The thread in question re compulsive use of pornography by a partner, is called "sex addiction" and has slipped way down the charts on the other side. Last post was on May 3 by Littlespirit.

May 14, 2007
10:32 pm
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Found the thread, Kroiks,

Yeah, the guy has a problem.--with intimacy and respect.

It's ok to want your partner to try to please you--but that works both ways. And it is a very good idea to avoid marrying people who you aren't compatible with--sexually and otherwise.

August 4, 2007
2:27 pm
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hello all,

I just finished reading a very interesting scholarly article by Patrick Carnes* about how internet pornography is changing a lot that clinicians thought they knew about the profiles of sex addicts and sex offenders.

For those interested, the 20-page PDF file on 3 internet portals to sex addiction can be found at

http://www.iitap.com/documents....._Final.pdf

There is also a 7-page article by Patrick Carnes (from 2006) on women and sex addiction, which can be found at
http://www.iitap.com/documents.....iction.pdf

I found the concept of eroticized rage very useful in understanding the underlying dynamics in the way some people use pornography, as well as the dynamics behind the production of [some] pornography.

While Carnes acknowledges that the easy availability of internet porn has allowed shame reduction for many people, there are also some other things going on that we as a society need to understand and come to grips with.

My take on it is that the porn industry is no more concerned about its consumers' sexual health than the junk food industry is concerned about its consumers' nutritional health. So it pays to be an informed consumer.

yours for good sexual health,
kroika

p.s. Those who have not seen this thread before and are wondering where the essay is.... scroll to the top of the screen and click on "view all posts" to see the original posts and discussion on this thread.

*(some bio on Carnes: Dr. Patrick J. Carnes is a nationally known speaker on addiction and recovery issues. He is author of Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction (1992), Contrary to Love: Helping the Sexual Addict (1989), The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships (1997), Open Hearts (1999), Facing the Shadow (2001), In the Shadows of the Net (2001), and The Clinical Management of Sex Addiction (2002). Dr. Carnes’ article, "18.4 Sexual Addiction," appears in Kaplan & Sadock’s Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry (2005).

The New York Times suggested his book, Sexual Anorexia: Overcoming Sexual Self-Hatred, "will create a new wave of understanding about sexuality and the dynamics in intimate sexual relationships." Dr. Carnes is co-editor of Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity: The Journal of Treatment and Prevention, a Taylor and Francis publication and the official journal of the National Council of Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity.

This bio continues at http://www.pinegrovetreatment.com/patrick-carnes.html)

August 4, 2007
5:24 pm
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I think there was a study about a year ago showing that sales and rentals of adult DVD was down 30% due to production of home-made amateur porn.

"look at us, we're a kikny couple" kind of thing.

August 4, 2007
5:26 pm
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I liked the section on co-addiction.

August 4, 2007
5:58 pm
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hey WD,

thought I'd see you here ;-p

Have you ever seen the video "East Van Porn Collective"? I gather that the surface story is about just that, a group of people who set out to make their own porn. But it is actually about decision-making (among other things).

A friend of mine told me about it but I haven't seen it yet. Read up about it on the net and it sounds quite interesting.

hope you're having a nice day
regards, kroiks

October 13, 2007
1:52 pm
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Once again I am pulling this thread back up for the benefit of a new poster on the support side whose marriage is suffering from her husband's use of pornography.

Tuna, if you scroll to the top of the screen, at the left hand side click on "view all posts" and you will see the essay I wrote after doing some research on pornography -- and the ensuing discussion. I hope you will find at least some of it useful.

yours for healthy sexuality and intimacy,
kroika

October 13, 2007
10:49 pm
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Kroika, Thank you for the article. I think you did a super job. Glad you got that A. You deserved it! i would like to tell Worried Dad he's so wrong in a lot of his comments to you. I don't want to get him "started" again. Thanks for sharing with all of us.
Sugar Lump

October 13, 2007
11:44 pm
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MsGuided
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kroika and WorriedDad

I enjoyed the banter and this post was educational.

Although my view on pornography and sexuality is somewhat skewed, due to my own experiences, I am still open to changing my stance (since I know my own sexuality has been compromised not so much by the other sex but by my own perspective, plus media and religeous "poisoning")

kroika succeeded in an outline on pornography and I agree with WD that there wasn't enough comparative examples to define her stance as porn being a negative influence. Does easier access to porn through technology denote addiction?

I've seen enough porn to realize the women performing in many films initiate, enjoy and have as much control as the men. I also believe dominance is a natural behaviour that can be entertained by men or women. I believe women, by nature of their anatomy, enjoy being dominated to a point. A strong Alpha male is a turn on, and if you are turned on, his penetration isn't going to hurt. Consentual is the operative word here.

S&M and bondage submissives can be of either sex and many women take the dominant role. Is being dominated , by conceding, so bad? Most participants of these practices are consenting and the staging is very controled.

I think tieing up adult porn and child porn with the same rope is a mistake. The act of sex doesn't put both types in the same class.

kroika, if a grown woman who shaves her pussy is immitating a prepubescent girl, is the only summation, then all forms of female adornment and manipulation can be suspect ( nail painting [gouging?] , or leg waxing, armpit shaving, Hair dieing, makeup, corsets etc).Removing body hair goes back centuries to when the ancient Egyptians used to wax all body hair away. Even the men used to be totally devoid of hair and wore wigs. Much of this behaviour was for vanity, not to appear as children. Culturally and aesthetically it was done to replace the human scent with exotic oils and perfumes.

Perhaps it is just for heightened pleasure (feeling) or cleanliness. Pubic hair,afterall, holds the bacteria, thus scent, of the host?

Yes there is a dark side to pornography in the human trafficking element you so sparingly mentioned, and the sex hotels of the third world that usually market kids and teens to clients but I think you have to be very careful not to lump the adult porn industry in with all that.

Finally
"My take on it is that the porn industry is no more concerned about its consumers' sexual health than the junk food industry is concerned about its consumers' nutritional health. So it pays to be an informed consumer."

I agree with you there. I haven't researched company names, owners and producers of porn, but like anything, it's like compairing shopping at the Farmers Market and cooking at home from scratch to eating at Burger King?

Does water not seek it's own level?
Where do we draw the line between deviance, abuse and healthy sexuality?

On a personal note I have absolutely no sex drive right now. And I've heard that plastics (containers and water bottles) are suspect to destroying the sex drive.
If it were as simple as drinking from glass always.....ah! Maybe I should watch some porn. That usually works but I need to find a new partner first, LOL> somethings gotta give!

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