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kroika's essay: Pornography and Sexual Health
January 1, 2008
12:52 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Hi MsGuided,

"anti porn hystericists? That is a pretty extreme thing to say to a gender..."

I am not addressing "a gender," I am addressing a small splinter group of men and women who hold an extreme position.

January 1, 2008
1:15 pm
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Hi Kroika,

I promise I have zero interest in your sex life.
“every time I bring this thread up, WD seems ~ dare I say ~ compelled to get on and stir things up again. What's up with that, WD? “

Excellent question Kroika. First of all I object to some of the extreme language and ideas that *other posters* post here.

As far as your contribution goes…

I am not questioning your “integrity” as far as your good intentions go. I really believe that you mean well.

What I am criticizing is your competence—your competence as a scholar and your competence as a nurse. I am saying that you are grossly remiss in your duty. I am saying your behavior is unbecoming a professional.

You keep talking about your desire to “help” people. I understand that some people may feel “reassured” by your selling the “porn is evil” platform—by that’s not the same as “helping.”

From where I stand your approach to this subject matter is not only unhelpful, it is potentially harmful, maybe even downright injurious.

Do I feel compelled to speak up when I see a nurse engaged in harmful behavior?

You bet.

p.s.,

For heaven’s sake has it occurred to you just how much filthy explicit imagery has been evoked here by you and your supporters? Personally, I could have gone another year without contemplating the phrase “gigantic cock,” thank you very much.

January 1, 2008
1:21 pm
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bevdee
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WD

You post to me and defend porn and call the links listed here lies, and provide a flurry of questions for us to answer so you can be satisfied about "integrity".

Then a little later in the discussion, you reveal that you have not watched porn in 20 years and have much research to do? That's what killed any desire I had to discuss this with you.

That and the siren song of "I'm being abused by man-hating women" blues.

I question your integrity.

January 1, 2008
2:13 pm
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Hi Bevdee,

What I haven't watched enough porn for you? And it hasn't been 20 years--that was just when it was a regular thing for me.

Kroika is not criticizing the porn of the past 20 years and she is not criticizing this kind of porn or that kind of porn.

She is criticizing "porn," period.

In the last three days I have watched almost 100 films and reviewed 12,451 porn titles. Thank god for fast forward and speed reading, but for heaven's sake, I am actually making a real effort to examine the actual material.

Kroika, mind you, has not acknowledged that she has ever seen even a speck of porn in her life.

And that is how it seems to be with the extreme porn critics--they make criticism of material that they have never, ever seen.

No, I am not asking any questions to be satisfied about anyone's integrity--I am saying that some people are flat-out mistaken.

And no, I have met *only one* person here who seems like a man-hater. Actually, far as know, she would be the only man hater I have met in my entire life. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Oh, a man-hater is someone who directs hate-speech specifically at men.

It is annoying when people refuse to examine the facts or consider the reasoning in a controversial situation, but instead focus on attacking personalities.

That's a form of dishonesty by the way.

January 1, 2008
2:15 pm
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bevdee
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WD

Thanks for all the explanations and opinions.

Happy New Year.

(((WD)))

January 1, 2008
2:41 pm
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free2choose
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WD said: (To Kroika)

"What I am criticizing is your competence—your competence as a scholar and your competence as a nurse. I am saying that you are grossly remiss in your duty. I am saying your behavior is unbecoming a professional."

WOW. So WD is not here defending PORN, he is here because he thinks Kroika is an incompetent, unprofessional idiot!

But I am the one who is ABUSIVE!

WD said:

"that is how it seems to be with the extreme porn critics--they make criticism of material that they have never, ever seen.

No, I am not asking any questions to be satisfied about anyone's integrity--I am saying that some people are flat-out mistaken"

If you are refering to ME anywhere in that statment, WD, you are the one who is MISTAKEN.

I said on these boards before that there was a time where I went through a phase where I watched alot of porn. Online, live internet porn.

There was a time I might have even considered myself to be on the verge of becoming addicted to porn.

Yes, I was abused at a young age.

Yes, this gave me a really fucked up idea about sexuality and dominance.

That time where I was watching the porn was a time where I was doing ALOT of work on my sexual issues. I don't know how to explain in except that it had alot to do with dominance, submission and gender.

I quit watching porn as I got better. When I found myself sick and disgusted and weeping on my AA sponsor's couch, telling her how disgusting I felt because a part of me needed desperately to be able to feel sexual dominance, while another part of me could not help but identify with the degraded women the porn. It was a very wierd, very dark, very uncomfortable place to be in.

I have since learned that both sexual dominance and sexual submission can be accomplished in a very healthy, very respectful way, with a partner that I trust and love. And for me, BOTH aspects of my sexuality...dominance and submission .... needs to be expressed in order for me to feel fully sexually satisfied.

The journey to sexual health has been a long one, and I am still learning. But I am MUCH better than I used to be.

So I think my perspective is multi-faceted. I have been the "porn-addict" getting off on the feeling of "male" dominance and "female" submission. I have also been the degraded female.

You may not be able to comprehend that gender duality, but it is very real to me and very valid.

So don't assume that I do not know what I am talking about.

WD said:

" have met *only one* person here who seems like a man-hater. Actually, far as know, she would be the only man hater I have met in my entire life. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Oh, a man-hater is someone who directs hate-speech specifically at men."

Why must you insist on dismissing what I say as truth by using manipulative, weak ploys such as calling me a man-hater and suggesting that I use "Hate-speech".

Just because I am the big bad lesbian that tells you where you can shove your bull-shit does not mean that I am a man hater.

I think you are being homophobic.

Lots of the ladies on here have told you off.

But because I am the lesbian I qualify as the "Man-hater".

I don't hate men, I just don't want to screw them. That's my perogative, WD.

My issue is not that you are a man. It is that you are a self-righteous, condescending, rude, badgering, fake-ass, know-it-all who continually sticks his nose in where he know it is not wanted nor appreciated.

January 1, 2008
3:00 pm
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free2choose
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And, by the way, that last line was NOT abusive. That was just a comment on my perception of your personality.

If I REALLY was the abusive "man-hater" you claim me to be, I'd call you alot worse than that.

January 1, 2008
3:05 pm
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free2choose
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MsGuided.

I like your name.

Please do not feel as if you are now subject to attack because you spoke your truth here about your past.

I let it all hang out here. I let let it all hang out everywhere, that is just who I am.

I spent most of my childhood and early adulthood hiding who I was and my "family"/"childhood" secrets.

I don't hide anymore.

And if anyone has a problem with it, they can go screw themselves...that is what I say.

My past is my past.

It has shaped me, but it does not DEFINE me.

And I would LOVE to hear about your growing up in the nudist colony. I wish daily that I did not grow up with the sick, shamefull veiw of sex and my body image that I held for so long and still sometimes struggle with today.

Peace to you, girl!

Don't hide your truth! It's YOURS.

January 1, 2008
4:24 pm
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Hi Free2choose,

No I'm not being homophobic. Shit, my lesbian friends outnumber my straight friends. I sing at lesbian weddings, remember?

Why don't you take a look at some of your posts and see if you can't tell what gave me the idea that you might, just maybe have some unresolved anger issues with men.

OK, so you are a recovered porn addict--and I gather you specialized in watching the nasty, degrading stuff. That was part of your kink.

You know what? You didn’t have to watch it. And you certainly didn’t have to watch the nasty stuff.

But now that you have figured out a kink that works better for you have to go off on rants based on your rejection of your previous lifestyle.

Your porn viewing habits were all about you and your sexuality. The kinds of films and specific films you chose to watch reflected *your personality.*

Most people aren’t into the dominance and submission trip like you—and therefore they wouldn’t watch the kind of porn you liked to watch. One person’s erotica is another person’s squick.

Just because you enjoyed watching the nastiest, filthiest, most repulsive, degrading and vile types of porn doesn’t mean that everyone enjoys that kind of thing—not everyone is as kinky as you were. Or are, come to think about it. And it also doesn’t mean that every film is like the ones you saw. In fact it doesn’t even mean that a majority of films are like the ones you used to enjoy.

I don’t know why it is so hard to get acknowledgment that there are many, many, many kinds of porn, and that men degrading women is not a necessary part of it.

For example films starring men, made for me, by men—I don’t see how that can be degrading to women.

Or porn made by lesbians for lesbians—is that about men degrading women?

Do you really expect me to believe that most men are disrespectful of women, and are turned on by hurting and degrading women?

January 1, 2008
4:27 pm
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Hey Mrs2choose

This caught my eye.

"Yes, I was abused at a young age."..."Yes, this gave me a really

fucked up idea about sexuality and dominance"

Thank you for being open enough to say this. I said this at the

beginning of my participation in this thread- porn and erotica on the

whole don't really bother me- I have watched it with my Niceman, but the

dominance in some of the porn does bother me. The misogynistic names in

some of it does, but for reasons other than my childhood molestation.

The distaste I have for those derogatory names is from a more recent abusive past.

Niceman doesn't care for those scenes either, and he doesn't need it

for foreplay, so it's not an issue for us. He laughs at the "acting" too.

This is causing me to think harder than I probably cared to today. I

need to talk about my childhood molestation with someone, and I can't

broach the subject with my therapist yet. I tried once to talk to her

about my homophobia and the reasons for it, and she just quickly

said, "That's normal." I tried to explain myself, and she repeated it a

couple more times, so I dropped it. I think it bugged her. I don't want

to talk about it with someone other than the right therapist, so I have

put it on the shelf - maybe for too long.

So- I need to get some more thoughts about this out - journalled. I

probably won't be willing to share it here for a while, I need professional

input, and I will have to find a new therapist for that. I might try with

her once more, because honestly, her reaction to me was enough to stop me

from expounding on any more of my thoughts. It's not enough to keep me

from having a good sex life, or functioning in the rest of my life,

but it is a thought that keeps niggling at me, so I spose I need to look at again, and more deeply.

Thank you Erica. You made a ripple and it touched me.

Squooshy hugs to you.

January 1, 2008
5:04 pm
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bevdee
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WD

I have a question. If you truly believe that Free2choose is being

abusive, why would you not remove yourself from the possibility

of any further abuse? Lite as it might be, I obeserve that you return to it.

January 1, 2008
5:19 pm
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Hi Bevdee,

I don't recall saying that free2choose was being abusive.

I am actually having a pretty swell day--I'm 62 pages into a new novel, and I'm catching up on season one of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

January 1, 2008
5:20 pm
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WD

I apologise, I thought you did, but that was someone else. Glad to hear you are having a swell day.

Me too- getting caught up on some odds and ends.

January 1, 2008
5:26 pm
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thewall
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((bevdee)))

You can share your story with me if and when you are ready.

January 1, 2008
7:06 pm
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Miss Wall

Thank you.

January 1, 2008
7:08 pm
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reformatted for easier reading:

Worried_Dad 1-Jan-08

Hi Kroika,

I promise I have zero interest in your sex life.
“every time I bring this thread up, WD seems ~ dare I say ~ compelled
to get on and stir things up again. What's up with that, WD? “

Excellent question Kroika. First of all I object to some of the extreme language and ideas that *other posters* post here.

As far as your contribution goes…

I am not questioning your “integrity” as far as your good intentions go. I really believe that you mean well.

What I am criticizing is your competence—your competence as a scholar and your competence as a nurse.
I am saying that you are grossly remiss in your duty. I am saying your behavior is unbecoming a professional.

You keep talking about your desire to “help” people. I understand that some people may feel “reassured”
by your selling the “porn is evil” platform—by that’s not the same as “helping.”

From where I stand your approach to this subject matter is not only unhelpful,
it is potentially harmful, maybe even downright injurious.

Do I feel compelled to speak up when I see a nurse engaged in harmful behavior?

You bet.

p.s.,

For heaven’s sake has it occurred to you just how much filthy explicit imagery has been evoked here
by you and your supporters?
Personally, I could have gone another year without contemplating the phrase “gigantic cock,”
thank you very much.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I am here. I am reading. I am contemplating deeply all that you say.

January 1, 2008
7:33 pm
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I don't feel threatened by this one -
"Personally, I could have gone another year without contemplating the phrase “gigantic cock,” thank you very much."

That image or phrase is probably not as fearsome to women as some might think.

January 1, 2008
7:36 pm
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bevdee
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Wow - I needed to clarify this for myself.

WD, you are correct when you tell me you did not say abuse.

12-29-07. You said "Hi free2choose
Rage and screaming and bullshitting aren't really helpful--it's just you inflicting violence on anyone who doesn't toe your line exactly. I night respond later after the first shock of your violent attacks wear off."

It was the allegation of violent attacks that got me confused.

I consider a violent attack abuse, and I attributed that to you. Again my apologies for confusing "inflicting violence" and "violent attack" with "abuse".

And in case I forget? Thanks - I have learned alot this time. And oddly, this time, it was when I wasn't posting.

(((Worried_Dad)))

January 1, 2008
7:38 pm
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Ohhh the formatttttt.....

Doing it again.

Wow - I needed to clarify this for myself. WD, you are correct when you

tell me you did not say abuse.

12-29-07. You said "Hi free2choose Rage and screaming and bullshitting

aren't really helpful--it's just you inflicting violence on anyone who

doesn't toe your line exactly. I night respond later after the first

shock of your violent attacks wear off."

It was the allegation of violent attacks that got me confused.

I consider a violent attack abuse, and I attributed that to you. Again

my apologies for confusing "inflicting violence" and "violent attack"

with "abuse".

And in case I forget? Thanks - I have learned alot this time. And oddly,

this time, it was when I wasn't posting.

(((Worried_Dad)))

January 1, 2008
8:40 pm
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free2choose
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Wow.

Let's go over this again shall we, so that WD can no longer put false words into my mouth.

I said:

"there was a time where I went through a phase where I watched alot of porn. Online, live internet porn."

WD obviously percieved that to mean:

"Just because you enjoyed watching the nastiest, filthiest, most repulsive, degrading and vile types of porn doesn’t mean that everyone enjoys that kind of thing—not everyone is as kinky as you were. Or are, come to think about it. And it also doesn’t mean that every film is like the ones you saw"

WOW. For a guy who used minimalization as a tool of manipulation, you sure know how to get extravagant when that one is convenient too. I'll have to remember too look out for that one too.

Now that you have taken it upon yourself to go ON and ON and ON about how "kinky" I was... oh..AM (WD: "not everyone is as kinky as you were. Or are, come to think about it"),

Let me make some clarifications for you....

If my use of the words "male dominance" and "female submission" led you to believe that I was watching some kindo of "Leeather daddy"/SMBD kind of shit, youare mistaken.

I said it is hard to explain, but I will try.

When I say "male dominance" I do not mean men gaging and tying up women. I am talking about the assumption that I made, as an abused child, that ALL males are DOMINANT...that dominance and male gender go together. When I say "female submission", again not talking about sadomasochism, I am talking about the feeling and message that I recieved as an abused chile that ALL Females are weak and submissive.

So in reality,for me, porn would simply reiterate the belief system that I held in my head that men were dominant and women were weak. It also reiterated the belief that women deserved to be degraded, that our purpose was to stand in as toys for the sexual pleasure of men, that our preasure and pain were of no consequence and did not matter.

I did not fanticize about being the woman when I watched that porn.

I fanticized about being the MAN.

At a very young age, my sexual power and choice was taken from me. I was robbed of my RIGHT to feel safe and sexually powerful as a WOMAN.

Somewhere in my head, came up with the belief that in order to be safe sexually, I had to be dominant. I had to be like a man.

So I fanticized about being a man.

And the only way I know how to be a man was to use and degrade women.

Hence, PORN.

When I was younger... in high-school, I would fanticise about the captain of my soft-ball team. In my fanticies, I was a boy.

As a younger child, in elementary school, I would dress up in my daddy's shirt and tie, stuff a sock in my pants, and masturbate.

I NEVER masturbated like a normal girl. Because to me, sex and being a girl only meant physical and emotional pain.

So, when I say "male dominance" and "female submission", understand I am not talking about "the nastiest, filthiest, most repulsive, degrading and vile types of porn" like stuff abut SMBD and shit.

I am just talking about my PAST very fucked up belief system about sexuality.

And just to clarify, I think ALL porn is nasty, filthy, repulsive and degrading. And when I say porn, I mean anything that degrades, dehumanizes or objectifies people sexually.

January 1, 2008
8:51 pm
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free2choose
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My past experience with porn WAS a way of ACTING out abuse mentally. In a fucked up way, it was an attempt at reclaiming my sexual power.

My feelings about PORN now are NO DIFFERENT than they were THEN. WHich is why I said:

"I quit watching porn as I got better. When I found myself sick and disgusted and weeping on my AA sponsor's couch, telling her how disgusting I felt because a part of me needed desperately to be able to feel sexual dominance, while another part of me could not help but identify with the degraded women in the porn. It was a very wierd, very dark, very uncomfortable place to be in."

SO, contrary to your newest incorrect assumption, (WD: "now that you have figured out a kink that works better for you have to go off on rants based on your rejection of your previous lifestyle".) I have ALWAYS been opposed to porn.

I simply did what many sick addicts, co-dependents and abuse survivors do...

I compromised my own morals and values to get my "fix".

January 1, 2008
9:01 pm
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free2choose
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You know what, WD.

You can say and think any damn thing you want about me.

If it makes you feel better to think that I am just a disgusting man-hating lesbian, Go AHEAD.

Because I know who I am, I admit I am not perfect, I know WHAT IS TRUE, and I really don't give a flying fuck what you think about me.

But what I am telling you about yourself...

That you are a coward, hiding behind a big vocabulary and a big intellect.

That you come across as a condescending, rude, obnoxious know-it-all.

That you HAVE to have these arguments with people so that you can PROOVE how smart you are and how well you "debate" to other people so that you can convince yourself of your own self worth.

That you like talking and argueing for the sake of arguing just because you like to get people all riled up, then you playthe victim of "vicious attacks" and get sympathy.

You do all that because you are just as fucked up, if not more fucked up than I am.

You got issues WD.

Issues you can't hide behindyour intellect and youcan't cover up with your politely veiled condescention.

At least I can admit that I got issues.

January 1, 2008
10:16 pm
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free2choose,

I don't know you.

But I have heard a lot of anger come out of you in the last few days.

It wasn't some vague anger, either, like...oh a person who pissed just pissed off at our spineless congress.

It really sounds directed at men.

You don't know me, either, but you seem to be willing to invent elaborate stories about me. Your "homophobia" accusation being an illustration. That *was* a "victim card," though.

I heard a lot of yelling and cursing about men oppressing womankind, and I heard you making up a rather bizarre story about some imaginary man wanting to shove his testicles up your butt--that's pretty extreme.

I apologize for applying the "man-hating" label prior to deeper investigation. That was unkind and imprecise and unworthy.

But can you see how your recent posts might give someone the impression that you are packing a trunkful of rage towards men?

If I am mistaken, correct me. It could be as simple as saying something like: "Really, WD, I do not have buckets of anger at men--I just got pissed off about a topic that really triggers me."

And I'll say something to the effect of: "Oops, sorry about that. My mistake--I take it back."

And I would appreciate some reciprocation in the trying to understand one another department.

I can see how my choice of words and tone would be annoying--but really, my intention is criticize ideas and thought-forms, not individual people here.

I have not intended to be condescending here--if I thought folks here were too stupid to get what I am trying to convey I wouldn't bother. I don't think that anybody here is stupid--I would just like some folks to take a walk down some paths of reasoning with me, kick the ideas around, and see what we come up with.

I find this topic to be incredibly annoying--because it never results in debate--just name calling. But the way this topic is discussed here is not going to enlighten anyone or inform them and it isn't going to help them in their relationships.

And I don't like seeing half of the human race trashed. It's just one little personal mission--can't a guy have a mission?

I regret if the way I speak bugs you--this is the way I have spoken since...well, about the fifth grade. I don't feel a need to "prove how smart I am," and this forum certainly wouldn't be a place to do that--in my world geniuses grow on trees and we take it for granted.

This is the way I talk. This is the way I think. This is the way the people around me talk. And it's the way we think.

It's my nature. And it's a cultural difference.

And it isn't easy to remain cool in heated conversations--it's a discipline, one I am still learning. I really, really like to use the "F" word--but I am really trying not to, because...well, you don't say it in public, only with familiars.

In a way, I guess I could take your cursing at me as a weird kind of compliment.

Moving right along.

I have not "called abuse" or claimed to be a victim in this situation--it was another who called abuse. Personally, I think I can handle you. I don't know if I can put up with you, but I am not going to be intimidated by you.

I just want to be able for us to have deep and wide conversations about this weighty topic. And I want it to be ok if I have a different opinion.

It takes a long time to get to know someone, free2choose. And it takes effort, too.

You are a senior poster now, and I would like for you and I to at least be able to be civil with each other and maybe even work together when appropriate. Because it looks like we are going to be encountering each other for a long time.

So I request Pax.

Hey, we can do fresh start, clean slate if you like. It is really hard for me to stay angry for very long--and I need to save that power for a particular evil psychotherapist.

Which reminds me: Did I ever mention to you that I have issues?

January 1, 2008
10:44 pm
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Free2choose

Thank you for your posts about addiction. This has great

significance for me, because of a friend's husband. This friend is more

of a sister to me than my own is. I love her alot. I have researched it

pretty extensively for a couple of years. His online porn addiction has

caused my friend alot of pain, and he is now in prison for it. He is

receiving psychiatric treatment - he was sexually abused when he was a

child. I share the information I get with her and she says she is reading it, but

it is hard for her to accept. She won't consider counseling. She goes to church, but

that isn't really helping her deal with the issues she faces. Too taboo for the church.

I would like to re-post for other readers that might have similar

problems what I did a couple of weeks ago.

19-Dec-07

To explore further, there will always be a defense of porn, there always

has been. But- to hear these arguments objectively, I think it is

imperative that we are able to see where this defense, this need to

defend comes into play. I guess it depends on where the defense is

coming from?

If it comes from the industry, then sure, that's obvious that the

industry wants to protect its financial interests- present and

future.

While the man who defends it might say it is free speech, and come up

with a plethora, a flurry, of reasons why it is free speech, I am left to

wonder why any man would really want his children, or other peoples

children, to view human sexuality as is portrayed in these little movies

with no plot except the f***ing. The only theme in these movies is that

women are playthings, objects of desire and in some cases scorn. There

is a theme of misogyny in porn that I have never been comfortable with. I

like erotica better.

But the man who defends porn? If it is your mate, then ask yourself what

has happened to this man when he was a child. Was he traumatised? Is he

defending his addiction? What, if at all, is his need to degrade women?

Is he defending the medium that he uses to perpetuate or reenact early

sexual trauma and imprinting?

Is he defending perpetuating a hatred for women by watching the scenes

portrayed in these "movies"?

Is he denying the effects that porn has on people and society?

Is he defending an addiction and denying the repurcussions the way

alcoholics defend their gin or beer? The way smokers scoff at the argument

of secondhand smoke?

I think these are the type of questions we should ask when we

listen to the arguments. Where are they coming from and what need does

the person defending it have to defend it?

Consider the source. Investigate the source.

22-Dec-07

I'm extending this to porn addiction

http://www.lbc.edu/public/Acad....._abuse.pdf

"The Addictive System of Sexual Addiction --

A child that has been sexually abused will have altered core beliefs

about themselves. As previous sections show, children who have been

sexually abused have feelings of self hate, low self esteem,

powerlessness, not being wanted, unlovable, and the inability to

connect with others. These feelings are the same feelings that sexual

addicts hold (Giugliano, 2003). An addict has delusional beliefs about who he is as a person and

subsequently acts on these delusional core beliefs (Carnes, 2001). The

addict filters his choices in life through these delusional beliefs. For

the sex addict, sex is his means to fulfill those feelings he wants or to

escape them, just as the drug addict or alcoholic does. The addict’s

relationship is with sex, not the people he uses to meet his needs (Carnes, 2001).

Once a person’s views have been distorted, that person’s thinking

becomes impaired and the behavior the person exhibits is not appropriate or

reality based. The addict’s mind is full of denial, arguments, excuses,

justifications and circular reasoning for his excessive sexual

behavior (Carnes, 2001). This leads the addict into a vicious cycle of

addiction. According to Carnes (2001), the addict becomes

preoccupied with sex, searching for it constantly. The addict then

engages in rituals that enhance the preoccupation, arousal, and

excitement. The actual act of sex or the sexual behavior comes next.

Finally, the addict has feelings of despair and utter hopelessness over

the fact that he cannot control his own behavior. [My friend's husband

sobbed every time she found evidence of his online activity, and said, "I

can't stop"] This leads into

unmanageability for the addict who tries to cover up his behavior but

still must face many consequences which can include prison, loss of

family, debt, venereal diseases, and public embarrassment.

Because of the unmanageability of his addictive behavior, his feelings of

despair, hopelessness, and utter powerlessness over this sexualized

behavior, the addict starts the cycle all over again with the belief that

he is worthless and that if anyone knew who he was, they would not love

him. Because he does not seek help, he is unable to break out of the

addictive cycle he has put himself into."

I consider excessive viewing of pornography and porn addiction to

fall under the category of "excessive sexual behaviour".

With the epinephrine (noted in an earlier post) that has locked in the

earlier arousal or fear and adrenaline, wouldn't seeing scenes in
porn that

trigger locked in memories do the same thing to a person who has suffered early sexual trauma?

http://www.pornaddictioninfo.com/

"Whether the motive for consuming pornography is sexual appetite,

escape/self-medication, or any other reason, engaging in these addictions

causes the brain and body to endogenously produce and release

chemical drugs into its own system. These chemicals include: epinephrine

(an adrenal gland hormone that "locks-in" memories of experiences occurring

at times of high arousal), adrenaline, adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), noradrenaline,

norepinephrine and testosterone, among others."

My friend's husband loved to argue and would often manufacture arguments

and drama. I could see his eyes light up and glow when she snapped at his badgering. Cause it was on.

I wonder if he is picking fights in prison, to feed his adrenaline

addiction, but I kind of doubt it. He used to be a small man, and that

might be dangerous in one of the roughest prisons in the country. He

picks a fight with her every time she drives the 4 hours to visit with him,

then writes her loving letters after the visit. She misses the adrenaline, too.

No matter what we do - movies, shopping, driving to the metroplex, etc., she complains that

she is bored. I suspect I know the reasons, but I haven't been able to

think of a diplomatic, loving way to broach the subject with her.

January 1, 2008
10:59 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests
400sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hey bev, I'm going to take the liberty of pulling your lines closer together so that your magnificent post is easier to read. Hope you don't mind.

bevdee 1-Jan-08

Free2choose

Thank you for your posts about addiction. This has great
significance for me, because of a friend's husband. This friend is more
of a sister to me than my own is. I love her alot. I have researched it
pretty extensively for a couple of years. His online porn addiction has
caused my friend alot of pain, and he is now in prison for it. He is
receiving psychiatric treatment - he was sexually abused when he was a
child. I share the information I get with her and she says she is reading it, but
it is hard for her to accept. She won't consider counseling. She goes to church, but
that isn't really helping her deal with the issues she faces. Too taboo for the church.

I would like to re-post for other readers that might have similar
problems what I did a couple of weeks ago.

19-Dec-07

To explore further, there will always be a defense of porn, there always
has been. But- to hear these arguments objectively, I think it is
imperative that we are able to see where this defense, this need to
defend comes into play. I guess it depends on where the defense is
coming from? If it comes from the industry, then sure, that's obvious that the
industry wants to protect its financial interests- present and
future. While the man who defends it might say it is free speech, and come up
with a plethora, a flurry, of reasons why it is free speech, I am left to
wonder why any man would really want his children, or other peoples
children, to view human sexuality as is portrayed in these little movies
with no plot except the f***ing. The only theme in these movies is that
women are playthings, objects of desire and in some cases scorn. There
is a theme of misogyny in porn that I have never been comfortable with. I
like erotica better. But the man who defends porn? If it is your mate, then ask yourself what
has happened to this man when he was a child. Was he traumatised? Is he
defending his addiction? What, if at all, is his need to degrade women? Is he defending the medium that he uses to perpetuate or reenact early
sexual trauma and imprinting? Is he defending perpetuating a hatred for women by watching the scenes
portrayed in these "movies"? Is he denying the effects that porn has on people and society?

Is he defending an addiction and denying the repurcussions the way
alcoholics defend their gin or beer? The way smokers scoff at the argument
of secondhand smoke? I think these are the type of questions we should ask when we
listen to the arguments. Where are they coming from and what need does
the person defending it have to defend it?
Consider the source. Investigate the source.

22-Dec-07

I'm extending this to porn addiction

http://www.lbc.edu/public/Acad....._abuse.pdf

"The Addictive System of Sexual Addiction -- A child that has been sexually abused will have altered core beliefs
about themselves.
As previous sections show, children who have been
sexually abused have feelings of self hate, low self esteem,
powerlessness, not being wanted, unlovable, and the inability to
connect with others. These feelings are the same feelings that sexual
addicts hold (Giugliano, 2003). An addict has delusional beliefs about who he is as a person and
subsequently acts on these delusional core beliefs (Carnes, 2001). The
addict filters his choices in life through these delusional beliefs. For
the sex addict, sex is his means to fulfill those feelings he wants or to
escape them, just as the drug addict or alcoholic does. The addict’s
relationship is with sex, not the people he uses to meet his needs (Carnes, 2001).
Once a person’s views have been distorted, that person’s thinking
becomes impaired and the behavior the person exhibits is not appropriate or
reality based. The addict’s mind is full of denial, arguments, excuses,
justifications and circular reasoning for his excessive sexual
behavior (Carnes, 2001). This leads the addict into a vicious cycle of
addiction. According to Carnes (2001), the addict becomes
preoccupied with sex, searching for it constantly. The addict then
engages in rituals that enhance the preoccupation, arousal, and
excitement. The actual act of sex or the sexual behavior comes next.

Finally, the addict has feelings of despair and utter hopelessness over
the fact that he cannot control his own behavior. [My friend's husband
sobbed every time she found evidence of his online activity, and said, "I
can't stop"] This leads into
unmanageability for the addict who tries to cover up his behavior but
still must face many consequences which can include prison, loss of
family, debt, venereal diseases, and public embarrassment.

Because of the unmanageability of his addictive behavior, his feelings of
despair, hopelessness, and utter powerlessness over this sexualized
behavior, the addict starts the cycle all over again with the belief that
he is worthless and that if anyone knew who he was, they would not love
him. Because he does not seek help, he is unable to break out of the
addictive cycle he has put himself into."

I consider excessive viewing of pornography and porn addiction to
fall under the category of "excessive sexual behaviour".
With the epinephrine (noted in an earlier post) that has locked in the
earlier arousal or fear and adrenaline, wouldn't seeing scenes in porn that
trigger locked in memories do the same thing to a person who has suffered early sexual trauma?

http://www.pornaddictioninfo.com/

"Whether the motive for consuming pornography is sexual appetite,
escape/self-medication, or any other reason, engaging in these addictions
causes the brain and body to endogenously produce and release
chemical drugs into its own system. These chemicals include: epinephrine
(an adrenal gland hormone that "locks-in" memories of experiences occurring
at times of high arousal), adrenaline, adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), noradrenaline,
norepinephrine and testosterone, among others."

My friend's husband loved to argue and would often manufacture arguments
and drama. I could see his eyes light up and glow when she snapped at his badgering. Cause it was on.
I wonder if he is picking fights in prison, to feed his adrenaline
addiction, but I kind of doubt it. He used to be a small man, and that
might be dangerous in one of the roughest prisons in the country. He
picks a fight with her every time she drives the 4 hours to visit with him,
then writes her loving letters after the visit. She misses the adrenaline, too.

No matter what we do - movies, shopping, driving to the metroplex, etc., she complains that
she is bored. I suspect I know the reasons, but I haven't been able to
think of a diplomatic, loving way to broach the subject with her.

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