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kroika's essay: Pornography and Sexual Health
December 30, 2007
11:25 pm
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I tawt it was 90%.

December 30, 2007
11:34 pm
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Hi Free,

No she said that in her year plus of being there, about 2 men out of all her customers never visited the basement.

December 31, 2007
2:29 pm
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MsGuided
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Looking in a video store, browsing is everyones right.

I have even looked at the video covers in stores! I have watched porn and 1/2 of it I didn't find exploitive or cruel.
I don't like being censored by any panel or group of purists.
I would like to think men can have a moral compass when they watch porn too, and for the most part will steer away from the really exploitive stuff.
So deal with the perversions and exploitation. Law agencies should catch up with the technological world and eradicate parts of the sex industry that exploit minors, children and victimize sex workers through forced acts.

I will let out a very private tidbit here because it will illustrate how differently i was raised compaired to the majority of North Americans.

I was raised as a nudist! Yes, My parents are european decent and nudist colonies are part of that culture. When you are raised around naked people for half your life you view nudity and sexuality in a very different and HEALTHY way!
I am so glad I haven't been poisoned by a shame based belief system that creates repression and warped views on sexuality.

Not all nudists are sexually balanced but studies have shown they are far less likely to engage in perverse behaviours and are very family oriented. Being secure in your body is the beginning of a healthy sex life.

I never saw anyone having sex, or acting innapropriately while at these "camps" I was NEVER sexually abused! There was a few peopel who's behaviour was questionable, one man i remember who had pictures of juveniles and adults having sex, but he was expelled from the club.
I was 18 when i had sex for the first time. I wasn't twisted by this shame based culture we live in. I came to that decision and act from security not ignorance.
What has caused inconsistancies with my views is dealing with the opposed culture i live in. It was a struggle being who i was, hiding it from people who don't "get it" . I was always aware of the potential for persecution. That is what screws me up.
My parents had their own guilt about coming to Canada, and struggling in a new culture away from their comfort zone. The camp we went to was full of europeans, was run by a German Couple and their kids. It was our own little secret happy world of boating swimming, playing tennis and feeling good about ourselves. Then I would return to school and our community life and so many conflicts with peers because i was "different".

Maybe that's part of my problem. I was raised differently than most north americans and there lies the disconnect when it comes to intimacy.

I have been imprinted very differently than most people and it is the clothed uptight and repressed world that has caused me problems and everyone else IMHO>

I really don't give a damn what anyone says, if they choose to critisize me, if they haven't experienced the world i grew up in. Ignorance.
Sexual art and illustration has been a hidden private part of many cultures for thousands of years. There is nothing wrong with being schooled in an act so important.

We have to be able to seperate what is unhealthy with what is necessary to make people sexually healthy.

It's what you take home, and how much room you give to viewing. and if you are sharing the experience with your partner to enhance your sex life, there really is nothing wrong with it.

I haven't been here long enough to understand why WD is being attacked so much.....so far i see him try to be rational and open with his thoughts, and he is on a journey to learn.
Why take the dark side of an industry and let it shroud anything that is positive?

I've seen and read about the dark side but that doesn't mean repression is the answer.
Men are also victims here by being exposed to some aspects of sexuality that really aren't condusive to loving relationships. Think of how they get gipped too. They are disconnected from their emotions, yet they are there! Men need love, understanding and support...and they get twisted in their own programming.
Male Hiarchy and the sexualisation of women on the one hand, then the total desexualisation ( female sexual repression) diminishing the mother roles, and taking away a womans power to choose and be empowered about her body and sexuality are the problem here.
We are all being deconstructed and repackaged here.
It takes a brave souls to question all that and try to maintain some balance.

Why attack "him" so much?
Maybe this looks stupid....I'm not posting webpages and proof. That I'll do in the future.
The erotic behaviour of people isn't a main focus for me now, and it sure takes a lot of room and study . Many of you are in the health feilds and it is part of your life to research the human condition.
We all learn from opposing views and differnt spectrums...I don't like to shut any of it down.

It isn't how many visit the "basement" it is the content and the ammount they choose to take away and make part of their lives.

December 31, 2007
3:42 pm
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MsGuided
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I went back and read some of the articles kroika posted.
Good examples of objectifying and abusing women.
And the content grows when you branch into interracial.There is a Porn Studio called DogFart films that is all about big black men screwing little white girls.
All of them are about overpowering and subjugating white women to various scenarios and yes some have school girl and rape themes. Most of them have an anal scene....Very degrading and an obvious attempt to put white girls in their "place"

There is another company that films in a Van : The Bang Bus . They drive around and pick up hitchhikers and girls on the street. Then the men proceded in sexually molesting them.
The troubling thing is these girls LET THEM! It is all scripted and is really awfull stuff.

This type of sexual culturalisation is breaking down a females barriers at a very early age , and tries to illustrate that being a sex object is ok? It's ok to be screwed and dumped on the side of the road or in a remote field somewhere!?
It's mostly men watching these films.......and it happens in real life to prostitutes and everyday women more and more.
WD you think this type of porn isn't an issue and doesn't increase violance and abuse against women and kids?

I also rationalize and say it isn't ALL bad..but the bad is taking over really.

I would like to access and do my own research But I don't want to go there. Get my PC flooded with porn sites, the neverending windows and having the content on my harddrive so a teenage boy can be exposed to??
I share this computer with my son so excuse my ignorance. I just don't see what you guys are accessing.
But isn't that part of it?
Keeping women ignorant to an extent?
The secret little power game that perpetuates the situation?

My son knows more about finding files than i do.

I do agree that the porn industry is really taking a horrible turn for the worse, and the variety of degradation, wether soft or hard core is mounting!

A great reflection of a society bent on war and domination....sad for us!

December 31, 2007
3:51 pm
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One other thing.
My son has so many emails sent to him that have sexual content. This started happening last year.
And he gets the info from friends at school.

This really sucks that the internet is victimizing our kids with this shit.
I'm going to access his email now to see what I have to delete AGAIN!

December 31, 2007
4:19 pm
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hey msguided-

monitor his Myspace blog as well- just in case ya didn't know, and monitor text messages on his phone. Kids hate this monitoring. My kids know that in order to have access to the computer and to have a phone that I have unrestricted access also.

free

December 31, 2007
4:34 pm
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MsG, you wrote: "I haven't been here long enough to understand why WD is being attacked so much"

Use the "search" box at the top of the screen and type in "porn". You will see previous threads on this topic. You can read back - it will take time - and make your own judgement as to whether WMD is being "attacked".

Try the thread started by "bowlinggreen" called Men and porn, why don't they get it?. It is what Free2choose was referring to about the thread that started on the support side, by a women who was in despair, and got moved by SC to the "Libs" side because it became so incendiary.

happy reading.

December 31, 2007
5:04 pm
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Damn that formatting....

try this for better readability

MsG, you wrote: "I haven't been here long enough
to understand why WD is being attacked so much"

Use the "search" box at the top of the screen and type in "porn".
You will see previous threads on this topic. You can read back - it will take time -
and make your own judgement as to whether WMD is being "attacked".

Try the thread started by "bowlinggreen" called Men and porn, why don't they get it?.
It is what Free2choose was referring to about the thread that started on the support side,
by a women who was in despair, and got moved by SC to the "Libs" side because it became so incendiary.

happy reading.

December 31, 2007
5:21 pm
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Hi Msguided,

"I haven't been here long enough to understand why WD is being attacked so much."

Whenever you have a controversial topic, some people see several sides, while some people will strongly take to one side or other, and find themselves getting very angry with anyone who does not believe exactly what they believe.

*Some* of the people who take strongly to one side of a topic also believe it is ok to attack people.

I've seen it happen with the topics of global warming, and politics, too.

December 31, 2007
6:07 pm
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MsGuided
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Ok?

I can be very controversial in my own way:haven't yet had any concrete debate or ruffled feathers, or outright insults posted directly to me yet!
I'm sure my time will come since I'm not much of a follower or appeaser when it comes to filtering my opinions about the world around me.
I try to gauge if the participators can handle it.
The stand I take on getting into personal attacks here is I don't want to unless I see someone being directly abusive to me or other posters.

I don't want this to become a place where I fling around inflamed emotions and there are very vulnerable people here, who are on the verge of doing bad things to themselves.
Damnit this is such a struggle with all the personalities.

My gut tells me to agree to disagree and to form my own opinions from my own experience.
I TRY to take the high road with accusations and misunderstandings, and just let it slide.
Besides I'm not in any position emotionally now to allow myself to spiral into conflict in this group.
I have to function with the messes in my own life.
Don't we all?
maybe it sounds cowardly.......I don't care.
I do feel scared now, personally, very vulnerable.
It isn't a good feeling at all for me because it isn't my nature.

I have more question marks in my head than answers right now about this discussion group and my life.

As for my sexual health? Not that great right now either.It has gone downhill from a place that was once pretty good!

I just want a little peace and work towards improving my state of mind ya know?

December 31, 2007
6:57 pm
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Hi Msguided,

Well, if you avoid the topics of sex, religion and politics, you'll probably be fine! 🙂

December 31, 2007
7:23 pm
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Ha!
Guess I better put on my Viking armour and get ready to rumble!

December 31, 2007
8:15 pm
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Hi MsG

I resonate very strongly with where you are coming from. If you do read that previous thread,
you will get a more complex picture of where I'm coming from.

It's just over 10 months since I had this exchange with WD,
far above on this very thread:

kroika 24-Feb-07

WD,Reread my essay. Read the references cited in my reference list.
I'm done talking to you about it, at least for the moment.
I have some other stuff going on and no energy to go over this with you again.
kroiks

Worried_Dad 24-Feb-07

Hi Kroika, Maybe later.

I don't think I could bear to re-read it now. Or the references--the ones I checked were pretty awful.

What I know is--if porn were so darn harmful, say like...thalidomide or something,
then by now you would think science would have proven it and
it would not be freely available anymore.

Instead, anti-porn hystericists are a fringe minority group.

kroika 24-Feb-07

if porn were so darn harmful, say like...thalidomide or something, then by now you would think
science would have proven it and it would not be freely available anymore.

right.... you mean like, the way science proved tobacco was harmful
(after decades of having research results suppressed by the tobacco lobby)
and so therefore tobacco is not freely available anymore?

I still can't figure out if you are truly naive or just being disingenuous... but I'm done.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

And, I truly did want to be done. But every few weeks new women arrive at this site hurting
and confused about damage to their relationships caused by their partner's porn use.
Then I pull this thread back up so they can read my essay
which I wrote for a university course on women's health.
WD has attacked my intellectual integrity repeatedly.
He has also made assumptions about my sex life which I have not and will not
disclose any details about on this site. MsG, I think you are right to feel
vulnerable and cautious about exposing yourself here.

What I do notice over time, though, is that every time I bring this thread up, WD seems ~ dare I say ~ compelled to get on and stir things up again. What's up with that, WD?

Happy new year and best wishes for good sexual health for all in '08. Catch ya later.

December 31, 2007
10:30 pm
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anti porn hystericists?

That is a pretty extreme thing to say to a gender who has been pushed down and subjugated to much abuse for a millenium plus?
Sure!all unhealthy and poisonous and distructive things are BANNED!?
Ha! more like they are used as tools to erode society. Most "average" citizens haven't a chance.

I used to communicate with a real genius feminist on another forum ( she got bullied away by the male and female audience) She was truly and deeply educated in religeous history, held a doctorate in linguistics and was constantly pointing out how our english language has been peppered with male roots, and sexist expression. All of this alters our subconscious and hypnotizes us into towing the line of the patriarchy.
The imbalance and abuse starts with our language, carries into our religeons and infiltrates everything we do on a subconcious level.
I was just beginning to get it then she just disapeared.???

The word "husband" bothers me and i will never refer it to myself in a commited relationship. It embodies ownership and puts women in the class of farm animals. That was it's root.

We are not here to serve men exclusively. There is no God that puts men above and in control of woman.

I tend toward the pagan and native american belief systems that give power to male and female deities.Balance. Symbiosis.
But we live in a world with a master, slave paradigm that allows one sex to dominate another. Humanity dominates nature and look what is happening there.......not much longer before there are no elephants, tigers, Polar Bears, Whales, mass extinctions and total decadance.
The dominant subordinate behaviours should be sexless, and the prupose of that is to maintain genetic strength but somehow women are "supposed' to be completely subordinate?
A patrinizing tone permeates even our success's.

To be vulnerable is just part of being female or a child.

When are we going to "grow up" and have complete control of our destinies?

December 31, 2007
10:53 pm
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going to reformat this, hope you don't mind, MsG.

anti porn hystericists?

That is a pretty extreme thing to say to a gender who has been pushed down and subjugated to much abuse
for a millenium plus? Sure!all unhealthy and poisonous and distructive things are BANNED!?
Ha! more like they are used as tools to erode society. Most "average" citizens haven't a chance.
I used to communicate with a real genius feminist on another forum ( she got bullied away
by the male and female audience) She was truly and deeply educated in religeous history,
held a doctorate in linguistics and was constantly pointing out how our english language
has been peppered with male roots, and sexist expression.
All of this alters our subconscious and hypnotizes us into towing the line of the patriarchy.
The imbalance and abuse starts with our language, carries into our religeons and infiltrates everything we do
on a subconcious level. I was just beginning to get it then she just disapeared.???

The word "husband" bothers me and i will never refer it to myself in a commited relationship.
It embodies ownership and puts women in the class of farm animals. That was its root.

We are not here to serve men exclusively. There is no God that puts men above and in control of woman.
I tend toward the pagan and native american belief systems that give power to male and female deities.Balance.
Symbiosis. But we live in a world with a master, slave paradigm that allows one sex to dominate another.
Humanity dominates nature and look what is happening there.......not much longer before there are no elephants,
tigers, Polar Bears, Whales, mass extinctions and total decadance.
The dominant subordinate behaviours should be sexless, and the purpose of that is to maintain genetic strength
but somehow women are "supposed" to be completely subordinate?
A patrinizing tone permeates even our success's.

To be vulnerable is just part of being female or a child.

When are we going to "grow up" and have complete control of our destinies?

December 31, 2007
10:57 pm
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Well, MsG,

You and I and anyone who has studied the equivalent of Woman's Studies 101 understands that there is a gender-based power imbalance in our society. (Also class, race, age and other imbalances.)

Patriarchy is real. But WD doesn't believe in it. So therefore anyone who tries to deconstruct porn from a feminist analysis... well, you got it, they're an anti-porn hystericist. We ought to have T-shirts made.

December 31, 2007
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Oops... forgot the formatting :-0

Well, MsG,

You and I and anyone who has studied the equivalent of Woman's Studies 101
understands that there is a gender-based power imbalance in our society.
(Also class, race, age and other imbalances.)

Patriarchy is real. But WD doesn't believe in it.
So therefore anyone who tries to deconstruct porn from a feminist analysis...
well, you got it, they're an anti-porn hystericist. We ought to have T-shirts made.

December 31, 2007
11:08 pm
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That term, Anti-Porn hystericist is just - dismissive. Convenient for the porn advocates.

Did you know that only women can be hysterical? Because the word root

hystero means uterus, and originally the word hysteria used to describe

disturbances of the uterus. Men are rarely described as hysterical.

December 31, 2007
11:13 pm
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"Men are rarely described as hysterical."

Our American friends on this board may not have heard of Marc Lepine.

From Canadian Broadcasting Corporation archives:

"For 45 minutes on Dec. 6, 1989 an enraged gunman roamed the corridors of Montreal's École Polytechnique
and killed 14 women.
Marc Lepine, 25, separated the men from the women and before opening fire on the classroom
of female engineering students he screamed, "I hate feminists."
Almost immediately, the Montreal Massacre became a galvanizing moment
in which mourning turned into outrage about all violence against women..."

You'll hear Marc Lepine called a mass murderer. But you'll never hear him called hysterical.

January 1, 2008
12:17 am
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MsGuided
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Then there is the greek root of hysteresis.which means to lag behind.
How frikken ironic is that?
We can fill a whole thread with latin and greek based words that have been used to create negative female connotations depicting weakness, mental instability and paint us as totally f'd up.

Well maybe we should change the spelling to HISterical?

Bevdee.you never cease to amaze me the depth of your studies!;0)

January 1, 2008
1:23 am
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Hi Kroika and Msguided,

I only made it up to "Women's Studies 200," but I did get a 4.0, despite my turning in written assignments offering strong criticism of two of the main texts, which were "Silence and Pornography" and "Women's Reality."

I appreciate that you are stepping up to the bat and trying to challenge my rhetoric, and beliefs, rather than just cursing at me.

I can work with that.

January 1, 2008
1:59 am
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MsGuided-

Eh- I teach anatomy to xray students and I love to study Latin word roots and meanings. I appreciate your contributions to this thread.

I gotta get back to work - Happy New Year, sugar!

January 1, 2008
2:00 am
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Ohhhh - the formatting.......

January 1, 2008
2:41 am
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Hi Bevdee,

Cool, you are anatomically correct!

Anyway, it's nice to have sciency folks to argue with.

Hey waitaminnit!

Are you a radiologist-tech kind of person?

January 1, 2008
10:19 am
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Wow,

This thread was started way back in 2006 as a school project. It has sense merged into quite the hot topic of debate.
I hope you got an A on your paper back then Kroika 🙂 If yer teacher could only see this thread now. lol

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