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kroika's essay: Pornography and Sexual Health
December 29, 2007
9:05 pm
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bevdee
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Oh free

at least she didn't threaten scoop out a forebrain or castrate him.

December 29, 2007
9:09 pm
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free
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lol Well yeah that's true. I never wanna piss

her off though! She's rough, but definitely loveable.

Assertive communication, well, alot of us

are working on that.

And it's not screaming the f-word, now c'mon

you gotta admit.

free

December 29, 2007
9:45 pm
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Worried_Dad
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I hate it when my forebrain gets scooped out.

December 29, 2007
9:55 pm
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lol I don't remember scooping somebody's forebrain out,

but I can definitely see myself saying

something along those lines.

Castrating- i think I mentioned that on the Crips thread.

I got booted of that thread.

the "truth" i'm learning here is that

It's okay to be verbally abusive to certain people,

IF you're certain people.

It's messed up, dudes.

It's just messed up.

oh well.

free

December 29, 2007
11:28 pm
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Worried_Dad
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Bevdee,

"I am continually learning that there are several different kinds, or "levels" of *Truth*."

THere is much truth in what you say.

December 29, 2007
11:37 pm
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bevdee
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Thanks WD.

IMO, In a cyber world, it's only abuse if I allow it to be. I have had people get mad and holler at me and even had one or two say the F-word in the hollering here at AAC, but I didn't feel victimised by their anger. I certainly didn't feel "threatened" by it.

It's all inside me and how I choose to react to it, I spose.

December 30, 2007
12:19 am
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free2choose
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Free,

He and I have had ths "debate" before. Many times.

And I have managed to do it WITHOUT screaming the F word.

But I tell you it does not matter WHAT I say because I am dismissed as an overly emotional idiot woman who is reacting out of her abuse.

I am screaming because I am angry. I am angry and I am tired.

To all of you, if theangerandthe word FUCK offends you, well take that part out and read what I said...

Just because it came out angry and passionat does not mean it is stupid or invalid.

December 30, 2007
12:19 am
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free2choose
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Free,

He and I have had ths "debate" before. Many times.

And I have managed to do it WITHOUT screaming the F word.

But I tell you it does not matter WHAT I say because I am dismissed as an overly emotional idiot woman who is reacting out of her abuse.

I am screaming because I am angry. I am angry and I am tired.

To all of you, if theangerandthe word FUCK offends you, well take that part out and read what I said...

Just because it came out angry and passionat does not mean it is stupid or invalid.

December 30, 2007
12:20 am
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free2choose
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Sorry for the double post,

the 'puter is actin all crazy.

December 30, 2007
12:34 am
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free2c~

I hope I never make you feel dismissed and I would

never refer to you as an overly emotional woman

acting out of her abuse. And, I'd never tell you

your feelings and thoughts are stupid or invalid.

I was challenging bevdee on her comment that

this was assertive communication. I struggle with that as well.

That's why I got booted off a thread. Fortunately,

I haven't been booted off the site in quite awhile.

I understand the feeling of "it doesn't matter what

I say" more than I'd like to share at the moment.

Please know I'll never mean to dismiss your feelings.

free

December 30, 2007
12:40 am
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bevdee
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Free-

"I was challenging bevdee " SIGH. Really.

I think it is assertive communication. I didn't see

anything abusive or threatening in that post. I know you and

WD see and call abuse where I don't though, and I hope my post to Free2choose didn't

cause still another misunderstanding.
You and I have

misunderstood each other long enough.

December 30, 2007
1:26 am
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free2choose
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WD:

You said:

"Let me ask you something. You say you are concerned about sexism, rape, oppression, degradation, inequality, and injustice. Why are you screaming about porn then?

Why don't you point to some examples of sexism, oppression and inequality and offer criticism?"

WTF are you talking about??? Did you miss EVERYTHING I said in my earlier posts.

Do I HAVE TO SCREAM in order for you to HEAR me, because when I do scream you say I am being abusive, but you don't freaking listen either way.

Pornography is a symptom AND a manifestation of the SEXISM that permeates our society. My criticism of porn IS a criticism on sexism, oppression and inequality.

Either you are to ignorant to understand that or you are trying to manipulate me into feeling stupid and putting me on the defesive by challenging me to "point to some examples of sexism, oppression and inequality and offer criticism?". As if everything I have said thus far has not been exactly that!

So either you are ignorant or a manipulator, and we both know you're not ignorant.

You said:

"All the men I know are respectful of women, perceive them and treat them as equals--heck, the men I know in relationships treat them better than equals."

WTF is that supposed to mean?? Is that you're ingenious way of saying that I am over-reacting by taking offense to the way that women are treated by men in porn because "All the men (you) know are respectful of women, perceive them and treat them as equals"

Well guess fucking what. MOST of the men I know ARE NOT respectfull, and NONE of the men in the porn that I have seen are RESPECTFUL, nor do they PERCIEVE them as equals. They are DISRESPECTFUL and regard women as SLUTS, WHORES, CUNTS, BITCHS or worse. If you find that to be respectfull, you need therapy, and a good ass kicking.

Nope. You know what you are saying and doing. Well so do I. Once again you are being manipulative, making me out to be and alarmist, while you duck and dodge and water down the truth about porn and howit affects this society.

You said:

"Half of the people in medical school are women. The current front runner for the position of "most powerful person on earth" and leader of the free world is a woman.

I just don't see "oppressed" as being the basic condition of women in this country."

God I swear, you such a minimizing, denying, false, phony piece of...work.

You know what. Then next president might be black, but that dosen't stop folks like my grandfather calling him a nigger.

I read in Newsweek that even some Blacks won't vote for Obama because they think he'll be assasinated. Can you believe that?

I can, cause I thought the same thing.

This is America. Less that 150 years ago a black man was still a slave in this country. Just because now one MIGHT be president does not invalidate the hundreds of years that WHITE people viewed BLACK people as "Less than" or "uneual".

So don't feedme no minimalist BULLSHIT about "this is America,not Saudi Arabia."

The existence of Oprah Winfrey and Hillary Clinton does not invalidate or negate the HUNDREDS of years that WOMEN have lived in oppression, nor has it changed the hearts and minds of many who still believe that a woman's rightfull place is behind her man and that women are the property of men.

Just as recently as 1976, marital rape was NOT considered a crime in 46 states!!!

How's that for oppression in America.

God, I could go on and on with the statistics, but I have done that with you before and all it does is waste my time. You just find new and even more ingenious ways of DENYING the TRUTH.

You said:

"I just don't see "oppressed" as being the basic condition of women in this country."Right now, I'm doing a porn research project, cause I'm tired of hearing that

I have no idea how "modern porn" is.

I'll let you know if I find any examples of women being called names or degraded on film.

So far, 55 films into my project, it looks pretty much a slice of life from the average American bedroom."

PLEEEAAASSSSSEEEEEEE. WTF are you watching, the late night soft-cores on Skin-a-max???

How bout I list some of the titles from IMBD.com:

1: CUM SLINGERS

2: STAR WHORES

3: SEX FOR SALE

4: 1 DICK, 2 CHICKS

5: 1 WHORE + MORE

6: 1001 WAYS TO EATMY JIZZ

7: 12 ON 1

8: ASS 4 CASH

9: 100% DIRTY SLUTS

10: ASS UP,FACE DOWN

11: BANG MY TIGHT WHITE ASS

12: GANG BANG GIRL

13: HOLES AND WHORES 2

14: IN YOUR MOUTH AND ON YOUR FACE

15: KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY

16: TEEN COCK ROCKERS

17: TENAGE MASSAGE PARLOR

18: TRUSTING GIRLS TRUSSED AND GAGGED

19: THE VIOLATION OF TERI STARR

20: WET TEEN PANTIES

21: WHITE CHICKS GETTING BLACK BALLED

22: YOUNG SLUTS

Is this what you are watching WD?? You said you're at 55, and just the 22 titles I listed makes me want to fucking hurl.

"12 on 1", "Keep it in the Family", "Holes and Whores", "Teen Cock Rockers"....?????

"A slice of life from the average American bedroom."

Really?????

Now...what were you saying about my "crappy arguments", my "lies" and my "bull shit"????

December 30, 2007
1:42 am
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free2choose
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damn it italics

bev,i got your bold disease, cept for mine is adifferent strain!

December 30, 2007
1:43 am
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bevdee
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Mrs2choose

Is that puter abusin you?

December 30, 2007
1:47 am
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Now see, these titles ALONE, is what makes me

feel like I married a sewer rat.

I just can't comprehend how anybody can find this

to be a turn on. But then I can't comprehend that

one disease or whatever where people urinate on and

defecate into each others mouths and get sexually aroused.

To me, it's all in the same league.

bevdee, you're right. We've misunderstood each other

long enough.

free2c, when you're typing in your post, after one and

a half lines or so, double space. It will be

easier to read.

free

December 30, 2007
1:51 am
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free2choose
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To clarify for Free and my Bev,

IMHO, I would call it AGRESSIVE communication. Not abuse, but not necessarily as assertive as one would hope. Agressive.

But WD is not assertive either. Don't let the false tone and "calm" demeanor fool you.

WD is one of the most manipulative, condescending, sarcastic, superior, self-righteous, passive aggressive people I have even been unfortunate enough to have come across.

Just because my aggression comes off as "spouting rage and lies", that does not make it untrue, invalid, or wrong.

I'm honest and open to a fault.

I'm not the snake in the grass waiting to trip youup with fancy words, sharp wit, and even sharper tools of manipulation.

I'm the bull ripping throughyour china cabinet.

If you ask me, I'd rather be the bull.

December 30, 2007
3:47 pm
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Hi free2choose.

IMDB?--I'll look it up.

I decided to use as my source material the most popular pornographic site on the worldwide web. It's mostly not softcore--lots of penises and body fluids.

December 30, 2007
5:00 pm
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free2choose
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Sorry, it is IMDb.com

Internet Movie Database

December 30, 2007
5:41 pm
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Hi Free2choose.

I found it.

I did a search for the word "hardcore" in the keyword and came up with 37,442 titles.

I am downloading those titles onto an excel spreadsheet for easier analysis.

So far I have 12,400 title ranging from "Aaron Austin: a Day in the Life" to "Dream Lover."

Anyway some of those 12,400 titles certainly raise eyebrows, but it looks mostly like a bunch of screwing despite some ridiculous titles.

I'm trying to think of simple searches I could use to identify films with potentially objectionable content.

Darn I'm just starting on the D's. and I'm getting carpal tunnel from pointing and clicking and cutting and pasting. I need a secretary...a naughty secretary...just kidding.

December 30, 2007
6:00 pm
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Penises and body fluids.

sounds lovely.

erotic.

NOT

December 30, 2007
6:10 pm
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Hi Free,

So, for you, your ideal erotic encounter is free of penises and body fluids? That would be unusual.

I mean if you were a lesbian I could understand you not wanting a penis to be involved, but how does one accomplish an erotic encounter, or even an erotic fantasy, without some body fluids?

You use sand and talcum powder or something?

December 30, 2007
7:14 pm
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Oh dont you be a butthead with ME wd. No I don't use sand and talcum powder. Very funny. ha.

There's something inherently not right with your description.

don't know what it is.

But I'll get it.

free

December 30, 2007
7:39 pm
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free2choose
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What's "not right" is his casual and flawed description of pornography.

He is ONCE AGAIN minimalizing and denying what is true about porn.

He is using wit, humor, minimalization, condescention, and and this eiry "niceness" in his tone. Like we're all on this "project" together, working as a team, updating eachother on our progress.

He's being an ass, basically. But what's new?

December 30, 2007
7:50 pm
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(((f2c)))

I thank you for making the effort to post on this thread.

Hope all is well with you, Erica. I appreciate knowing you.

love, kroiks

December 30, 2007
9:17 pm
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Hi Free2choose,

In what way is my definition of porn flawed?

I've gone to the most popular porn site on the web and sat through 81 videos now.

Yoou picked 20 titles out of 37,000.

I have read almost 10,000 titles from your database today. Sorry, I couldn't go through the rest today--even I have my limits and I wanted to watch the Simpsons Movie.

I would say I am making a heck of an effort to find out what the facts are.

And so far, the facts that I have discovered in the last 24 hours do not seem to support your viewpoint.

Yes, there are some sick people and sick filmmakers out there--

But do you expect me to believe that your average person is not average. Am I supposed to believe that your average man is a sick twisted person?

If you were to believe the video store clerk whose blog I linked to, then approximately 100% of men have at some time been interested in seeing naked people having sex. Am I to believe that approximately 100% of men are sick and evil?

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT?!

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