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Just wondering what real worth a man has besides his penis............
November 4, 2002
4:01 pm
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Guest_guest.

I'm not advocating softness. Mahatma Gandhi was far from soft. He was about 'passive resistance' not 'active aggression'. There are ways and ways of delivering firm messages. Mahatma Gandhi drove the entire British Army out of India without firing a shot - something the IRA have failed to do in Ireland with all the firepower of a guerilla army at its disposal and exploitation.

Violence called by any other name, terrorism, justifiable retaliation, etc just doesn't work.

Truth of life is that violence breeds violence, the escalation of which will certainly be the destruction of life on this planet as we know it!!!

This is not fanciful rhetoric but the realities of the usage of modern weapons of mass destruction. All that is required is enough provocation on both sides and one side or the other WILL be used - it is not a case of 'if' but 'when'. Despite the 'justifications', never forget that it was the United States of America that set the precedent in 1945. I'm sure that the terrorists/freedom fighters have 'justifications' that meet their religious needs equally as well or better.

When will humanity learn this simple lesson that violence breeds violence - one day after it is all over and there are only a few people left to starve amidst the piles of rotting corpses and smoking ruins?

November 7, 2002
7:19 pm
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hmm ok.. so how do we do it, asides the passion things, cause thats outside my scope 🙂 (well atleast im in my bad moods)
even when i've been kinder to them when discussion their faith, its still not any use. its difficult, i know

November 8, 2002
4:15 pm
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Guest_guest.

I've been having a lot of problems with someone in my work situation. It was getting me down a little, so I decided to get up at 4.30 a.m. and go canoeing at first light. I spent 2.5 hours reflecting on the nature of my difficulties and how all my difficulties stemmed from my own self-cherishing ego. I felt wonderfully relieved and set off paddling for the deserted boat ramp from where I embarked on my excursion.

When I arrived back to my car, the ramp was still deserted. I found that some kind person had tried to steal my car. They had smashed the driver's side window, jemmyed the door handle and completely jammed the driver side door. They were such amateurs that they couldn't do what I do in 5 minutes when I lock my keys in my car; that is open the lock with a piece of wire without damaging anything. Over $600 dollars worth of damage was done and they still couldn't beat my secret car immobilization trick. So I drove my car home sitting on a pile of broken glass.

Now, I thought of our discussion here and the feelings that I was then having. I wanted to take revenge on the world at large and run every young punk that I saw down, set up ambushes, buy a gun with a silencer, etc.... But I realized that the cycle of violence and retaliation has to stop with those who realize the truth of 'cause and effect'.

'So as ye sow so shall ye reap' - 'What goes around comes around'. 'Do unto others as you would that they do unto you' - the Law of Karma, of cause and effect. I accepted the damage, payed for the car to be fixed and feel that this is one more debt from the past that I have repaid. I now feel at peace. I certainly would not feel so good now, if I had set about entrapping the same or other potential car thieves and taking the law into my own hands.

Do I think that these 'would be' thieves got away with anything? No way - I bet they suffered much frustration at not being able to steal my car. I bet that they are very dissatisfied and unhappy people. I bet that they have suffered a lot of abuse and lack of love in their lives. I bet they will always be looking over their shoulders suspecting everyone of wanting to steal from them. I am now feeling compassion for them - they are the victims of their own ignorance.

What goes around comes around - there is no effect without a cause, no cause that doesn't have an effect. Only the 'conditions' have to be right for the effect to mature. Time is of no consequence, in the 'effect' waiting for the right conditions to become another 'cause'. And so the 'Swadashanchakradari' spins on.

Do you still think your President Bush should retaliate with violence or verbal abuse? Do you think that it would stop there?

The sounds of war will reverberate down through the generations to come on both sides and untold misery will be endured - for what? National pride?

The solution is dialogue, understanding, compassion, and working together for a win-win solution to whatever the real or imagined grievances the terrorists have.

In my less than humble opinion, until we as humans learn how to parent properly and show compassion for each other, my car will continue to be stolen and world trade centres will continue to be blown up.

November 8, 2002
8:10 pm
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i'm sorry.. yes its sad.
you say, dialogue, compassion and understanding, yup.. maybe ..ur right

but tell me, how will this stop
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/.....index.html

the same way? dialogue..?
what if the non-believers struck back at what was most important to the beleivers? how would this effect the scene? (i cant say the exact words here, but you know what i'm refering to).
if they were so much hurt, would they stop? or would they become frenzied into total madness? if they were, they'd .. well they'd all consume themselves in the hate.

i want to know when this will end, and how.

i read that cnn link and it made me so sad, and i thought "will this ever stop, and how?"

November 10, 2002
6:30 pm
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Guest_guest.

You said, "but tell me, how will this stop ..."

I accessed the web site and read the article. It is scary, mate.

But... no one can stop an 'effect' of a 'cause'!!! What we can do to stop it is - to let all the 'effects' pass without generating any more 'causes' of such effects. Christ expressed these sentiments as "turning the other cheek'. This is very pragmatic not esoteric and wishy washy!

You see Guest_guest, the philosophy that one can retaliate and stop them by creating fear of repercussions is flawed. It just won't work. These people know that they have the 'upper hand'. 'Might' never makes things 'right' and it never will. However compassion, tolerance, patience and returning kindness for insult will. Though it will not prevent all the coming 'effects' of past 'causes' - like Desert Storm, etc - turning the other cheek will prevent the production of terrorist recruits in the future.

Don't ever kid yourself that shooting Bin Laden and his fellow Islamic militants will 'fix' things. New Jihad warriors will emerge just as quickly as the others are dismissed.

Giving Bin Laden et.al. a free pardon and offering to negotiate the terms for a truce, whilst abhorrant to the victims of terrorism, would also be the last thing the terrorist leaders would want. It would diminish the number of their warrior recruits drastically and remove the justification for their Jihad.

The problem is that we tend to see things in a very narrow time frame of one life time or less. When viewed over 100's of years, a much clearer picture of the truth of what I say is gained.

'Gunboat diplomacy' never has and never will work - not for Osama nor for George Bush, nor anyone else.

November 10, 2002
7:08 pm
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well thats a great post, i think i will read it again. i agree.. its the best method.
its really difficult to decide how to deal.
what could be the softest way to tell these people that their "messenger" was not a messenger, but a manipulative liar.
by engaging them in debate? hmm.
i have to talk to you in detail about this.. because this is my life's goal so its very important to me.
will wrote more later, also, will email you, can you reapeat your email again (the other post is lost somewhere deep)

November 11, 2002
4:02 pm
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Guest_guest.

"... because this is my life's goal so its very important to me."

A goal of changing others is a minefield filled with pitfalls. If the mines don't get ya the pitfalls will.

30 years ago I changed my goal from changing the world to changing myself. In particular, I set about changing my views of the world and my views of myself.

Now I'm at the point of discovering that what I thought was my 'self' is only a mental construct and as such bound by past conditioning and thus delusional.

Try to find and clearly define the boundaries of your 'self'. The more I try the more blurred they become. In fact it is the 'ego boundaries' that contain the 'self'. Since the 'ego' doesn't exist apart from some mental abberations neither does the 'self'.

Now 'I' am starting to realize that the conscious awareness that this 'I' associates with this 'self' is severely constrained by the artificial fences created by this imaginary 'ego'.

It is the same process in Osama Bin Laden that separates him from the rest of humanity. Thus he has manufactured the 'we' and the 'they'.

We are all literally 'One' and just don't know it. The 'ego' has done its job well - hasn't it. 🙂

November 11, 2002
7:43 pm
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ok but if everyone say, "we'll change, and not try to change the world", then who will strive against the lies then?

November 12, 2002
4:31 pm
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Guest_guest.

"... who will strive against the lies then..."

If everyone is turning within to find their own truth, then who will have either the time or the inclination to force their 'truth' onto others as an attempt to dispell 'lies'.

Finding the truth about one's 'self' is a humbling, passifying experience that leads to quiescence, tolerance, contentedness, peace of mind and happiness rather that aggression, arrogance and the desire to force one's own truth onto others.

It is my experience, that people who are most eager to dominate others in any sphere, be it religious belief or whatever, are usually most insecure in their own beliefs and are compensating for those inadequacies. These people are deserving recipients of compassion and understanding.

November 14, 2002
5:12 pm
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Guest_guest.

I just re-read my last posting and realized that you may have thought that I was refering to you.

In fact I was refering to fundamentalists and bigots of all religions, creeds and belief systems. I don't think you fall into this category.

I do see that it is a common trait of human beings to think that their 'truth' is the truth. In my case, I see that what I believed 10 years ago is different from what I now believe about the nature of things. So what reason do I have to believe that in ten years from now my beliefs will not have changed.

This insight allows me to hold my present beliefs tentatively. I am thus open to other possibilities and ideas. Another bonus is that I feel comfortable with others holding different beliefs to my own. The only problem that I have with fundamentalists is when they want to use force to impose their beliefs and standards on me. But they can never do that. Only I can choose to give in to fear rather than to face it and consciously choose to respond with compassion and understanding.

Viktor Frankl expounds this view in his book and by his own example when he refused to allow the Nazi SS prison guards to dictate his attitude to them and to life in general. He chose to exercise his last freedom to choose his attitude to his suffering and to his torturers. He refused to choose hatred and to act out of fear! He never really ever condemned them in print years after his release; though he certainly did abhor their behavior.

November 18, 2002
11:58 am
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tez, yes suppose i find peace within myself and all that, but what about the rest of the world? someone's gotta tell them that its a lie, right?
suppose its a dangerous cult, and the core of that cult focuses on hating those who dont beleive in it (which includes me and the majority of the world), so why should i stay silent?will we let them do as they please?
their "cult" is the source of so much trouble in the world.

November 18, 2002
12:01 pm
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also, my "truth" is only this that their "truth" is wrong becuase it teaches them to hate those who dont beleive in it. its just my protest "i protest against this hatred".

November 18, 2002
7:04 pm
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Guest_guest.

Yep... I understand the nature of your protest and your truth in this regard. You have every right to express it.

On 1-NOV-02 you said, "i dont have the capacity to deal with them compassionately..."

Confucius said something like, "Do not judge another unless you have first walked a mile in their shoes."

I say, "If we knew all, we would forgive all; in fact we would never take offence in the first place."

It is only because of our ignorance(including mine) of all the intricate myriad strands in the web of the past suffering of every human being that we(including me) sit in judgement at all.

Regarding the terrorists, I do not condone their actions, nor do I subscribe to their beliefs. Using the best intelligence possible and foiling their plans to commit violent acts is a wise move. Speaking out compassionately against such acts of violence is also a good thing. Waging war against terrorists is 'dumb'. It sows the myriad seeds of future conflicts that will wait a hundred years - if necessary - to sprout.

The Dalai Lama has spoken out in the most compassionate and exemplary way against similar acts of wanton violence in which more than a million Tibetans died cruelly.

Though I am not officially a Buddhist, I believe that we can learn much from the Buddhist approach to violence and suffering.

The battle for the hearts and minds of men and women cannot be won by the sword but only by wisdom and conmpassion.

November 19, 2002
8:26 am
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All these battles are already won by Jesus Christ. Satan continues to try and hinder, only, for even he knows that he has lost. He knows, Satan, the final outcome. These wars are not at all "of men" but of Satan through men. This is why Satan despises the Word of God. God's Word is, was, will be......forever. This is a spiritual battle, and any who sees otherwise needs to get out the Bible and read it. There is proof for the Bible. Soooooooo much proof. Not of ANY other idols is there as much proof as of the Bible. Those terrorists are of the devil, for the devil, and have already lost the war. I suggest reading the book "The Signature of God". This book CLEARLY reveals the PROOF of the Word of God. Archaelogists have found so much and are still finding proof. I wish I could write it all out but I know if I tried that I may mix things up for I am still reading the book myself. Idoltry in ANY sense is wrong. It is a waste of time. The only way is through Jesus Christ. Whether one believes or not, it is that it is that it is. Anyone who practices idoltry shall burn in hell for all of eternity.

November 19, 2002
4:32 pm
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Sygg.

May you find peace and contentment within your mind for that is surely where either heaven or hell are to be found, no where else.

If the beliefs of others in any way disturbs our mind's peace, then we would do well to seek out the cause of that fear within our own thoughts, beliefs and doubts. For fear is a very useful signpost to that which is delusional within us.

November 21, 2002
8:00 pm
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hmm ok, i dont understand, but i'll touch this later sometime

November 22, 2002
9:54 am
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Tez, you are wrong. Will not debate with you on it. I have no fear. I have nothing but sympathy for those that practice religion with statues and such. You must be referring to my last line about if this is done then they go to hell.....well why take it as an "attack" or trying to put my beliefs on one? If one feels there is no hell.....then what is the projection that I am fearful of anything or delusional. One who worships other idols is delusional. One who feels they have mastered the all time question of reality.....of there being "no reality" is delusional. I have no fear. Buddha? Ugghhhhh. Where is the proof? Only the delusional stories and rituals passed from one generation to another. I have the Word of God. There is physical proof of God, the Bible. I have no fear. So because "Tez" the "person who really is not but is just a delusion of his own mind" says I am fearful.......then I am fearful? Ha Who is the real delusional one here? I will probably not have the pleasure of saying I told you so....for we will, whether you (or the "not really you at all" believe it or not will most definitely be in two different places at some point real soon............unless you finally for once figure your mess out in your delusionalness and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and stop running from reality. No fear here. Just pure honesty.

November 22, 2002
10:01 am
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Tez, if all of this is just "this" then why reply to me about it....you are so absorbed in your apparent "intellitualness" hmmmmm is that even a word? lol I don't think of you as intelligent at all........just delusional and I feel your god is YOU. You are a waste of energy actually........to me that is but not to Jesus Christ who died for your sins. Died to give you the chance to have eternal life and not just be and then cease to exist except in Hell. And once again in case you didn't hear in the last post.......I have no fear of my destiny, my past, my future, or of delusional thoughts. Without Jesus Christ your existence is a waste. But hey to you that is okay I guess because your not really "you" right? Is that right? Hmmmmmmmm then who am I talking to..........NOBODY I guess.

November 22, 2002
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Oh and one more thing.........take your own "advice"......."if the beliefs of others in any way disturbs our mind's peace then we would do well to seek out the cause".......best advice you've ever given. Now take it for yourself and get right with God. Peace.

November 22, 2002
10:35 am
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November 22, 2002
10:40 am
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Sygg,

if you read Tez' posts for some time you might have come across these parts where he talked about how he was abused by chritian fanatics in his youth and had a hard time to recover. Why are you spitting bile and bitterness on him for trying to live a life in accordance whith his own philosophy? Why is it important for you to know that your relationship to god is the only one and the right one? Why do you often "shout" your beliefs to people who ask questions on the general board?

November 22, 2002
12:52 pm
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Hey Everybody.

I was wondering if the special "few of you?" are just sticking over here with this fun conversation rather than following the General Boards?

Just wanted to news brief you in case:

BlondieNYC has been removed from ACC, not allowed to return. Read up on the Hidden Camera thread if you're interested.

Also, I know these boards aren't as much "counseling" related, they are "social issue" related, which is on target for this discussion, totally, but to Syqg, I just wanted to throw this counseling bit out.

Isn't it healthy to be able to accept other people's opinions and let-go? Guideline #5 asks that we respect other people's opinions, especially when different from our own. What is the importance of that?

If you ask me, it's most important because when we do "accept other people's opinions" we free ourselves to move on and grow, and project love rather than anger and rigidity.

I know that for some Christians, a part of the religion is spreading the word and not tolerating some other religions, but on AAC, it's recommended to keep an open-mind.

However, here on these social boards, I encourage strong debate, and guidelines can bend more... so feel free, I'm just noting the counseling aspect is all.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING (to those who celebrate it).

- SC

November 22, 2002
1:05 pm
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I do accept that read up please........he attacked me thank you, he called me delusional. I never even posted TO him at all......thank you. And Eve, I have not "shouted" to anyone on the other threads, not one time. Thank you. He attacked me and my religion, so I suggest the both of you go back and read it up there. Thanks. So it's okay to attack a Christian and call me delusional, but I can't say anything back? This is "once again" ridiculous. Read up there where I never said anything to him, then he posts specifically to me........SC, if get on to one do both PLEASE!

November 22, 2002
3:49 pm
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guest_guest

Response to your posting of the 21st November:

No probs... matey. When you have the time we'll continue this interesting discussion on the nature of 'truth'. 🙂

November 22, 2002
11:30 pm
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nothing!!! 🙂 guys r the biggest losers on this earth.

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