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Just wondering what real worth a man has besides his penis............
September 17, 2002
6:12 pm
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syqg
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Hmmmmm I'm still thinking.........thinking, thinking, thinking.......Do they really think that we need them for anything else either? haha I mean come on.........they can't even take out trash in most homes.......leave kids without financial support alot of times.....and well can't really hold an interesting conversation with a woman for more than an hour without wanting to "play" awhile......kind of like a damn never ending teenager...they just don't grow up really. It's women that run the world. Not talking about government. I'm talking about real every day living. Hell most women work now and even help the "babies" bring home the bacon, buy it, cook it, clean it up, geesh..........and oh yes we could just stop but then hell the freakin house would stink, kids would starve lol.........oh geesh Yeah I think they think we don't just want "sex" too? Geesh don't you think that we feel "good" too? Not always wanting your ass to call of fall in love either, just a good time bub. You are not all that.......the male. Oh and if this post gets "deleted", I suggest deleting a few more also.

September 17, 2002
6:28 pm
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Okay to be more politically correct uptop........in place of male put "the males I personally know and have been around, read about, heard about.....etc." Thank you.

September 17, 2002
11:09 pm
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ok i wrote a lot but deleted it cause its gonna be deleted already.
basically, the bottom line is sex, both want it. men strive for it, women wait for it.
thats the only aim in our lives.
frued said it too, and he was right
its just the survival instinct.
humans are just more evolved and they have different ways of getting their aim.
men dont take the trash out cause they do the other things? if they had to do everything, they would.
same goes for women also, if they had to run the world, they would.
its just how society has developed, that the roles are as they are.
an unfair world for me, a man who sees striving his whole life for sex, as useless and a pitiable aim.
maybe im not evolved enough, or maybe everyone else doesnt see as i do

September 18, 2002
8:53 am
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So?????? And??????? I say men have got it made these days.......got women to have to work and leave the babies........then the women watching the children get paid jack shit to boot........look at it. The woman feeding, changing, rocking freakin life gets minimum wage....the man out building a house or painting gets twice or three times as much........and women accept this......hmmmmm our fault in some ways also. I'm sick of it too. I'm sick of the way men have it made, and they don't even see it.....well they can't bring home the bacon? Let's get society, family, and I'll go home and ask the wife as she's doing the dishes, washing the baby and going to the store...."hey babe can you go to work on the outside too, and then come home and do this too, and you be the one to take off work when kids need you to take them to doctor, because we both know I'm the man and my job pays me more than yours.........it is so unreal. I say get a fucking second job and work 16 hrs a day because I sure as hell do. lol Not saying my husband is doing this.....he's actually not like that..his is more subtle I feel he takes advantage of what I feel I should be doing all day every day. And then there are the men who think we are just bodies waiting to be fucked or something.......hmmmmmmm don't they have a body? Couldn't that be their only worth in our eyes? They don't seem to see that their bodies are made more masculine, but the brain is no respector of gender.......mine is as good or even better actually. Women do run the world right now in a sense. Men just don't want to admit that or see it. Alot of men belittle women, think they are less than......why? Because I was born with different parts? Because your body was made alittle bigger? hahaha It is so pathetic in my mind. The men who usually do that are subconsciously jealous of women in some way.........can't put my finger on it really. They need to have something on this earth be "less" than them for without that they would see how "replaceable" they too can be. Just like the man who can go from girl to girl for kicks......he knows and I know that he could be just a kick too to someone......a WOMAN! hahahaha We have minds. Beautiful minds. Intelligent. We can also just use men. That pisses men off really......so they justify "using" us and belittling us into nothing but "p-ssys". Well those who do that are nothing but "di--s" to someone anyway. What I'm saying is don't put yourself on a pedal stool for too long because one day a WOMAN may come by.....think...yes women think...and just kick the damn stool out from under your feet. hahahahahahahahaha

September 19, 2002
2:19 am
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our economics professor was saying that men's and womens wages are comning closer and closer,
they were far apart.
its cause more and more women are doing jobs that prevously only men did. they are showing they have similiar capabilities as men. so its become more and more risky for employers to discriminate in salaries of men and women.
so yea, i agree with the wage thing, it should be the same and may, will be the same.

a lot of the present situation has to do with what has been for hundreds, thousands and maybe even millions of years (mankind is supposed to be 2.2 million years old, or 4.5, one of them).

so i'll let u start.
i know, men were stronger physcialy (i dont know why nature evolved them to be so).
they hunted, women reared.
i was thinking today about our brains- how did the brain evolve from the ameoba cell.

my main complain about the men-women thing: men run after girls, and girls choose the best man.
like a male cat is always horny, not the same for female cat.

men gots minds too, please. inventions, technology all done by men.
i dont know, i;m confused myself about the whole thing.

why is it that a man doesnt want much from a girl, but when it comes to a girl, she wants to be LOVED, soemone with humour and sexy and blah blah.. what not.
while we say "yea any girl is fine, just a girl is enough"
why you got all those demands?

September 19, 2002
12:51 pm
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Am I butting it? tell me if I am

I think we have all those demands because it mirrors what we seek in a father. There are always reproductive agendas - and subconsciousl women are always seeking providers who will make good fathers. We demand the emotional input as a test to see if you can tolerate fatherhood.

But men, biologically, seek to just impregnate as many women as possible, so their concerns with maternal investment aren't as strong. They are just attracted to fertility indicators, clear skin, youth, good hair, symmetrical features...

September 19, 2002
5:44 pm
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heh. ur right.
no ur not butting in, ur welcome here.
emotional input eh.. but in the cavemen days, fathers didnt have to have emotional input to the children.
so when did it develop.
can we define what is a good mother. the males must be searching for good mothers too. anyone who looks good, thats all?
i was thinking yesterday that looking cute has no survival value, even then we're attracted to beautiful girls
im confused

September 19, 2002
8:06 pm
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Men use girls because they haven't found the one that is for them yet. Same for women. Not ALL women want something from every man they date. Sorry but it's just not true. I for certain didn't want every man's heart. Sometimes it was just companionship, sometimes sex, (feel different about sex now), sometimes it was just because......just like men do women. Let's just face it guest_guest..........most people want what makes them happy....an attractive (to them) person who treats them with respect......why go any deeper than that?

September 19, 2002
8:06 pm
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Men use girls because they haven't found the one that is for them yet. Same for women. Not ALL women want something from every man they date. Sorry but it's just not true. I for certain didn't want every man's heart. Sometimes it was just companionship, sometimes sex, (feel different about sex now), sometimes it was just because......just like men do women. Let's just face it guest_guest..........most people want what makes them happy....an attractive (to them) person who treats them with respect......why go any deeper than that?

September 20, 2002
10:05 am
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thats true

September 20, 2002
10:49 am
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Actually in caveman days it was even more essential for a female to have a provider, because there is a period of time when the mother is incapacited after birth, when she has to care for her infant and when it is risky for her to forage for food with a newborn - that's where provider comes in, so they can go get food and resources while mom is caring for newborn. After that, no more need for dada.

Evolutionary psycholgists theorize that that is why the average relationship lasts 3 years - the amount of time it takes to rear an infant into childhood.

September 20, 2002
10:54 am
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guest_guest..........I wrote this out of anger(my first post) I was angered about some personal issues and then about some of the (suppose to be private things) written by you to Tez......so for that I am sorry. I know you didn't take it personally....but I was sorta trying to get your attention in a weird kind of way. Now that said.......I think that your view(and it's okay because it is yours) is that women are less than you.....I'm just trying to show you that we are really more equal than you think, even equal with bad qualities as well as good ones..understand? Women can use men too. It's the person's character, past, views, experiences that make the person. I hope for you that one day you will see what it is like to "care" about the opposite sex, to view them as a friend that can give you more than that of a male friend.....a spark maybe. Sexual satisfication, a completeness in your heart and mind. Let's just face it, the bodies were made different for pleasure and reproducing life. And the souls were made different also for all sorts of reasons guest_guest.......you need to experience it all and then I'm sure your opponion may change....maybe not though. And that's okay by me.....but is it okay with you? I mean really okay with you? Let go alittle and live and experience what you were created to experience........there is joy in difference, doesn't have to be all competition.

September 21, 2002
1:48 pm
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avg relationship 3 years, thats interestng.. hmm.

hehe syqq.. ur so nice. i'm just confused about women and i dont know!
i'll reply to ur post in peace and leisure, gotta read it carefully.
i really wanna sort this men/women thing

September 21, 2002
2:12 pm
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see, women want "caring understanding loving" men.
what do men want? not much. we just want a women, and we have lesser demands, no? thats my point.
"I have a wonderful man that I am dating. He is caring, understanding, loving etc." this is an actualy quote from this site.

women want more from a man, as compared to what a man wants from a woman, thats what i see.
if i'm wrong, prove me. which sex puts the other sex in a more difficult position, in which they have to compete more and strive?

[still gotta read your post though, will read later! (if u already answered my questions, then ignore me)]

September 21, 2002
11:13 pm
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You say men do not want much else? Well you are a man......don't you want a caring, understanding, and beautiful woman for you? Don't you deserve that out of life? A true friend? A person to hold and touch, and then actually talk to? You are "you", don't have to put yourself in the "men" box at all. Just like I choose to not be in the "women" box. I am just me. Just me. Are you really not wanting these things from some special woman, or are you just lacking security in who you are to "give" to this person you may one day meet? There is a big difference in a man that just dislikes women and wants to use them and a man who just is very insecure and knocks down the good of relationships with men and women....a big difference. Which one are you? Let's start there........

September 22, 2002
9:35 pm
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ok i read it, i dont know what to say though.
ah, i wish i could be in the box you are, just 'you'.
gosh i feel terrible right now, its proably cause im so hungry. i should eat and come back later.
well.. i have this beleif that im unable to get close to any woman. other guys do it easily, and get sex in the end.

i should be in a naturalist community.
i hate this society, where you cant touch the breasts of a female you like.
or say "hi, can i have sex with you?" sure.
"hi, nice breasts" , and then touch.
this world is corrupted and everyone is following the rules without thinking.
damnnn. heh.

i know im really messed up and feeling terrible from inside (hunger?) is the cause

September 23, 2002
8:24 am
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You are rambling because you can't answer the questions.

September 23, 2002
12:11 pm
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syqg (butting in) - guest_guest comes from a different culture, and different cultures have different socially acceptible concepts of male and female.

I think that as you get more experienced with women, instead of seeing them as 2-Dimensional ideals of what "women" are - you might be able to see that it's really about the individual, in the end.

I don't know about most women, but I wasn't seek a generic everyman who had qualities X, Y, and Z. I just met someone who I liked as a person - I love my husband's soul, not just his body or mind. If he became a vegetable, or suffered a severe brain injury that made him mentally incapacitated, I would stay married to him and care for him - even though, according to your description, he would no longer be attractive.

There's a lot more complexity involved in human romantic relationships that what goes on on the surface.

I've often asked my husband what he found attractive in me - he said it was the fact that we had such easy conversations. He's never been able to be talkative with women, but we met and talked the whole weekend, something clicked. There were no awkward pauses or uncomfortable silences. Just easy conversation and a similar outlook on life. He also lists my physical features, my figure, my intelligence - as things he is attracted to, but his initial response only involved our interaction. There are plenty of physically attractive women out there, but not all of them are with men.

According to your theory, all physically attractive women should be in relationships!

September 23, 2002
10:24 pm
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I'm not sure if I completely understand the point here (sorry - just skimmed quickly over this), but it seems to me guest_guest that you are disparaging women because they want more (to be loved, cared for etc etc) because that is something that men don't *typically* seek. Perhaps instead of thinking that women are too 'demanding' in seeking so many qualities in their potential mates (which have people have already discussed can be explained by differing reproductive strategies), you should think about why it isn't 'bad' that men don't 'demand' more. Men and women aren't *that* different. There are plenty of men out there that don't want children; just as there are plenty of women that don't want children. Men can be just as caring, nuturant etc as women and in fact men are more often 'threatened' by marital (or relationship) confict then what women are. Women tend to think that arguing/resolving confict is a positive step in improving their relationships; whereas men tend to think that it signals the end of the relationship. My point I guess is that whilst women are complex emotionally, so are men.

September 24, 2002
8:57 am
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Cici, I have no idea what you are talking about with "your theory". I don't have a theory. Beauty is in the eye of the person.....what is attractive to one is not attractive to another. I have only gave a point of view that women use men also....true. Women are just as good or bad as men......true. Not ALL men want just sex....true. Not ALL women want just emotional intimacy.......true. Think you need to start from beginning and read all the way through.....:O) Don't think you see my "true" view........maybe because they are directed at guest_guest and that they are some views from other things I have seen him write on another thread.......but anyway thanks for writing.

September 24, 2002
8:59 am
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Cici, go back a couple of posts....you'll see this "attracive" then followed by this "(to them)"......that's what it means....attractive as to what attracts you individually not by society or what is determined by media to be attractive....understand?

September 24, 2002
9:02 am
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Okay......hmmmmmmm Cici were you talking about my theories or guest_guest...lol?

September 24, 2002
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I'm talking about geust's theory - that women want more than men from a relationship, while men only respond to physical qualities

September 24, 2002
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I want to respond to this thread in hopes it will maybe make me understand about the guy I am with. My boyfriend is that type where he is insecure and knocks down the relationship.He is that type where the world revolves around him or his penius. He has low self-esteem, doesn't do much for himself or thinks he can't unless I push him.
He can and does take out the trash, clean the house, laundry, makes dinner, breakfast. On the outside he is a great person and does everything possible to please me. But, the minute I try to get out of bed or say no to sex with him, he's thinking why? Why is she rushing out of bed, why is she taking a shower, she just took one yesterday? I did all of these things for her....
I was a single mom for 8yrs. I don't need a man in my life for security, trust, money or sex.
I would like another person in my life so I can share the experiences of life. The good, the bad, the exciting, the boring,the trusting, the caring and the communication. This man I am with always expects sex morning,noon and night and everywhere in between. It's always about sex and if he doesn't get it he has a fit or temper tantrum like a 5yr boy. Don't get me wrong I enjoy sex. I've used sex in the past to get things I've wanted. But, there are times when women don't want to be kissed, touched, or have sex with and it's nothing to do with a man. It's not like (with me )I am out fooling around and getting it somewhere else.
My boyfriend's backgound is that his ex had cheated on him numerous times. The last time she left him for another woman. His ego was hurt. I am the type of person that when I am with my guy, I don't mess around on them. Why go somewhere else when there is too much to risk.
I am at a turning point in my relationship after two years and almost getting married that I don't know if I want this man in my life.
There is alot of stress, and the same accusations all the time.
I wish I had that companion that is what we feel is everything.
me.

September 24, 2002
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*L* Racine when you figure it out let me know...I'd like to be able to explain that to my bf too! Not always, but sometimes, he seems to take it as a personal insult if I say 'no' as if that means that I don't find him attractive or 'want' him. Alternatively he views sex as about 'mood' (which yeah I agree it often is) so thinks that a possible explanation for me saying 'no' is because I've had a bad day etc (because obviously that means you can't be in the mood etc) so insists on analysing every aspect of my life to find what could be stopping me or assumes that I'm pissed at him and therefore 'punishing' him. I've tried explaining that it has nothing to do with him as a person (as in I find him attractive etc), that if there is a problem between us (which is rare) that I'll tell him, that sometimes I'm tired or had a bad day and can't really articulate why (or can't be bothered doing so) and that there are other times when I just don't feel like it! When I don't want to be touched or pawed and just want to be alone - not physically alone but I just don't want to be 'groped' and would just rather 'be' there with him - and maybe that's mood but I don't really see it as such as in I'm not in a 'negative' mood; just not in the mood for sex. Whenever I say that he seems to think I'm acting like a 'rape victim' or something. One of his complaints is that 'I never ask him' - which is kind of hard if all the time you get asked such that you never have the chance to initiate it yourself. I've said that to him and his response is "Well maybe you'll really want it and I'll say 'no' - sort of in a 'so you can see how I feel' way. Urghh! So frustrating because it seems so childish! I've told him that if he doesn't want to when I do, then I'd prefer he said 'no' to me then suffering through it just to please me - he has the right to say 'no' just like I do. Anyway, it's not really a problem. In general he's reasonable about it, but there are times when I'll get really frustrated with constantly being 'hassled' or 'grabbed' that I'll flare up and it cause an argument. Just wanted you to know that it seems to be common!

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