Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In
Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
The forums are currently locked and only available for read only access
sp_TopicIcon
Jesus isn't the ONLY way
May 22, 2009
5:54 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
101sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bless YOU, Bereft. Not sure what kind of person laughs at Hitler - probably one who believes he wasn't that bad. God help you.

grace and peace

May 22, 2009
6:55 pm
Avatar
soofoo
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
102sp_Permalink sp_Print

Destinystar,

You are right on.

There is more irony on this thread than that Alanis Morissette song.

I am pretty impressed with bereft, who handles it all so well and with so much grace that it almost makes me think twice about his views.

ALMOST 😉

Love to my neighbors and "enemies"

soofoo

May 22, 2009
8:44 pm
Avatar
_anonymous
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 8
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
103sp_Permalink sp_Print

((((soofoo))))) Thank you Sweetie 🙂
\O/.

May 22, 2009
9:00 pm
Avatar
free2choose
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
104sp_Permalink sp_Print

Berefet is a guy??

Maybe he's Jesus? Reincarnated. Oh, wait, that's not Christian, never mind.

May 22, 2009
9:06 pm
Avatar
free2choose
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
105sp_Permalink sp_Print

Fred Phelps is the most extreem case of homophobia and hatred. But do not be decieved, at leeast Phelps is honest about it, his adgenda is clear and unquestionable.

You know who is worse, all those "Love the sinner hate the sin" people ho smilein your faceand talk about "Christ's love" and the go in a voting booth and vote to deny gay Americans equal rights under the law. THAT is supreme hypocracy and two-facedness!!!

You know what those homo-hating religious nutsare calling themselves, the ones who are "against gay-marriage"... PRO-FAMILY!!! Can you believe that! Like gay people don;t have FAMILIES that they LOVE and CARE for!!!

I have a ss life partner who I have been ith for over 7 years and we are currently raising two beautifull daughters. I'd call that pro-family, wouldn't you???

They should just be honest and call themselves what they are! Self-righteous, closed-minded, intolerant, homophobics!!!

Screw that mess! WE SHALL OVERCOME!!!!!!!!!!

May 22, 2009
9:07 pm
Avatar
free2choose
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
106sp_Permalink sp_Print

Oh man I'm HOT!

May 22, 2009
11:04 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
107sp_Permalink sp_Print

((((free2choose))))

All the best to you and your family. You nailed it when you wrote:

"They should just be honest and call themselves what they are! Self-righteous, closed-minded, intolerant, homophobics!!!"

But not everyone can or will be honest. They'll cling to religion, drugs, alcoholics, abusers - whatever they can to not look at themselves.

This evening I watched a news report about Congolese kids being targeted by Christian pastors for being witches. It's basically a way for the pastors to make money through exorcism. The children are then stigmatized and abandoned by their families - left to become street kids.

It's not only the Christian religion that is abused and abusive - other organized religions are guilty as well. And it's not only religion. I know this.

I realize that at the same time that I "preach" tolerance, I'm showing intolerance for the intolerant.

I hope, if there is a God, he/she can see the goodness in people's hearts, wherever they are, whatever they believe.

It's clear that you treasure your precious family. I'm sure that your daughters will grow up confident, strong, and compassionate, and certain they are loved and valued.

Mary

May 23, 2009
12:09 pm
Avatar
_anonymous
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 8
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
108sp_Permalink sp_Print

What I see here is a situation of negative identity in which Marypoppins defines herself in terms of what she is not. All this is leading into is a pathological situation of internal anger which Marypoppins has a need to perpetuate. This thread is obviously destructive due to the fact that Mary poppins holds negative stereotypes of another group "Christians" & is discriminating against its members based on those steriotypes.

May 23, 2009
12:49 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
109sp_Permalink sp_Print

marypoppins
22-May-09

((((free2choose))))

All the best to you and your family. You nailed it when you wrote:

"They should just be honest and call themselves what they are! Self-righteous, closed-minded, intolerant, homophobics!!!"

But not everyone can or will be honest. They'll cling to religion, drugs, alcoholics, abusers - whatever they can to not look at themselves.

This evening I watched a news report about Congolese kids being targeted by Christian pastors for being witches. It's basically a way for the pastors to make money through exorcism. The children are then stigmatized and abandoned by their families - left to become street kids.

It's not only the Christian religion that is abused and abusive - other organized religions are guilty as well. And it's not only religion. I know this.

I realize that at the same time that I "preach" tolerance, I'm showing intolerance for the intolerant.

I hope, if there is a God, he/she can see the goodness in people's hearts, wherever they are, whatever they believe.

It's clear that you treasure your precious family. I'm sure that your daughters will grow up confident, strong, and compassionate, and certain they are loved and valued.

Mary

May 23, 2009
1:10 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
110sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thank you again, Craigco, Cary, and free2choose for understanding.

And thanks to Ma and Healing and Peace for showing a loving and more open-minded side of Christianity.

Bereft, you have every right, as you well know, to believe as you believe.

However, I give back to you:

1. your warning to me that I'll go to hell for not believing as you do,

2. your assumption that I'm not a fundamentalist Christian because I love sin too much,

3. and finally, your conclusion that my frustration about atrocities in the name of Christianity is really about my troubled conscience.

I give all of that back to you. I regret that any of it moved me at all.

Sincerely,

Mary

May 24, 2009
11:56 am
Avatar
bereft
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
111sp_Permalink sp_Print

goodness, Mary, i didn’t think you had accepted anything i said to begin with, why would you need to give them back? no one listens to a fanatic, do they?

i want to attempt to clarify what i meant by what i said without defending myself personally or reviling you or anyone here in any way. please forgive me if i fail.

you may recall when Tez , after saying he wasn’t a Christian, asked me “in my honest opinion” what his fate will be when he dies. i answered and said that it mattered very little what my honest opinion is but instead quoted what Jesus said: if you do not believe in who he says he is you are condemned already and “you will indeed die in your sins.” (John 3:18). in a gracious reply, Tez thanked me for my answer and said he was interested in my perspective on the Bible and my “version of Christianity.”

Mary, you joined in on the conversation saying no one can prove that the Bible is factual, that God, Jesus, heaven, and hell are not objective truths that can be proven or verified, and i could be all wrong. pardon me if i was wrong, but does that sound like a statement from someone who believes the Bible is the Word of God? so in the spirit of my reply to Tez, i used simple logic: i could be wrong and our deaths wouldn’t matter ultimately. however, if i’m right (i.e., if what the Bible says is true), “you're choosing an eternity of hurt,” by not believing the Bible is true.

i think the Scripture i quoted regarding “loving sin too much” (John 3:19-21) was directed at a comment Glittered made, and not about you being a fundamentalist Christian or not. interesting though how you claimed that one.

finally, my comment about “conscience is not an easy thing to deal with” meant how the Holy Spirits convicts one of sin and unbelief. if i hadn’t been there, i wouldn’t know the battle you’re up against. you see, my saying “you’re good for a laugh” was directed at your tenacity and vehemence which again i understand having been there. for half my life i was also a fire-breathing, anti-Christian warrior.

i hope that clarifies some of the assumptions you made about my posts. i’m sorry i wasn’t clear enough for you. sometimes my words aren’t clear, but Scripture has the power of God even as i fumble along. one more thing, if you’ll indulge me a bit further. God does not punish people for opening their hearts and minds to people and ideas (He said,“come let us reason together”), however, we are condemned already by our sins unless we believe in his son, Jesus Christ. God bless you, Mary, and have a great Lord's day.

grace and peace

May 24, 2009
3:04 pm
Avatar
glittered when he walked
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
112sp_Permalink sp_Print

Loving sin too much? shoot...does that mean we can love it some preferred amount? What if we just "like" it instead? Look, if all sins were disliked, no one would commit them in the first place and then what would we do for righteous indignation?

I'm not surprised that you were a "fire-breathing" anti-christian bereft. Your arguments and comments lead me to understand that you are not a "grey area" person. There is on and off, zero and ten. With you there is little or no alternating current or 5.

Re: your comments/quotes about the government of the United States - we'd all do well to remember the first amendment of the Constitution. as per James Madison regarding patrick henry's bill to establish a religion for the government:

"We the subscribers, citizens of the said Commonwealth, having taken into serious consideration, a Bill printed by order of the last Session of General Assembly, entitled 'A Bill establishing a provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion,' and conceiving that the same if finally armed with the sanctions of a law, will be a dangerous abuse of power, are bound as faithful members of a free State to remonstrate against it, and to declare the reasons by which we are determined. We remonstrate against the said Bill,"

and in a letter:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize every expanded prospect." -- letter to William Bradford, 1 April 1774

and lastly and eloquently argued:
""Because Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The People who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are slaves."

May 25, 2009
5:27 pm
Avatar
mezzo3
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
113sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bereft wrote, "a miracle is an extraordinary event wrought by God through human agency, an event that cannot be explained by natural forces. miracles always are designed to authenticate the person God has choesn to declare a specific revelation to those who witness the miracle."

Life is the miracle. The present moment is the only time we are alive. In every moment, when we have awareness, no matter what our faith, life reveals itself to every one of us. I think the distinction between miracle or not-miracle is whether or not we pay attention and notice it.

May 25, 2009
10:02 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests
114sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bereft.

You, obviously being erudite, would have no difficulty with quickly reading and comprehending this interesting article titled 'Why I'm not a Christian'.

I would greatly appreciate your response regarding:

1. the accuracy of her biblical references,

2. the validity of her logic in regard to the conclusions she draws about the nature of the 'Christian God' that she derives from the Christian Bible.

Thanks in advance.

May 26, 2009
9:22 am
Avatar
caraway
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
115sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bereft,

Why here? The internet must provide endless sites on Christianity? Why not go to any number of them to talk about religion?

I know from time to time something will come up here about religion as it relates to a relationship issue someone is dealing with, but this really isn't the place to argue who is going to heaven or hell, or even if there is such places.

I realize that the SC has allowed religion to be mentioned on the Lib side, but aren't we really here to deal with our realtionships and codependecy and other realtionship issues?

It just feels like your only purpose here is to preach to folks about your view of God, and feels innappropriate. Again, why not got to religion.com, or jesus.com?

My concern is that some people who come here for the first time for help and support my look at the postings and assume they are on a site about religion.

Cary

May 26, 2009
1:49 pm
Avatar
bereft
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
116sp_Permalink sp_Print

thank you, Glittered. your point is well taken. government has no business meddling in the affairs of the soul, where there is only one Ruler.

some have called that document "the most powerful defense of religious liberty ever written in America." i’d have to agree. one reason is that madison made freedom of conscience--meaning belief or conviction about religious matters--the centerpiece of all civil liberties.

from his Memorial i would point out his concern that the misuse of religion would lead to "an unhallowed perversion of the means of salvation." he reasons that government support would "weaken in those who profess this Religion (Christianity) a pious confidence in its innate excellence and the patronage of its Author." he recalls that ecclesiastical establishments of the past have done great damage to the "purity and efficacy" of religion.

madison, a deist, shamed Christian conservatives in the fight to pass the Virginia Bill for Religious Liberty, who tried to insert the words "Jesus Christ" in an amended preamble. he said "the better proof of reverence for that holy name would be not to profane it by making it a topic of legislative discussion." talk about righteous indignation.

by the way, if no one committed sin, we could always reserve righteous indignation for smoking, movies, sports, television, rock music, clothing styles and long hair,.... although come to think about it, to some sports isn’t really a sin, it’s more of a god.

grace and peace

May 26, 2009
2:10 pm
Avatar
bereft
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
117sp_Permalink sp_Print

certainly Creation was a miracle, Mezzo. i suppose we’ll have to negate miracles when scientists create life in a test tube(getting close, getting close, getting close…….ohhhhhhh, not so close, not so close).

i assume that if they cannot attain life in a lab with all the grants they've received, they’ll just redefine it’s attributes and call it good. kind of like what false religions do about God, but i digress.....

grace and peace

May 26, 2009
2:24 pm
Avatar
glittered when he walked
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
118sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bereft,

I agree that government has no business in religion...and vice versa as well.

As Madison argues:
And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
-- James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822,

"Experience witnesseth that eccelsiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-- James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, addressed to the Virginia General Assemby, June 20, 1785

and quite interestingly:

"That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some, and to their eternal infamy the clergy can furnish their quota of imps for such a business.
-- letter to William Bradford, January 24, 1774, quoted from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

May 26, 2009
7:42 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
119sp_Permalink sp_Print

oh how I love a man with a big...brain

May 26, 2009
8:56 pm
Avatar
bereft
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
120sp_Permalink sp_Print

Glittered, i think George Carlin summed it up best: "I'm completely in favor of the separation of church and state. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both together is certain death."

what? religious persecution of American colonists? i'm stunned. i thought liberation brew threads was a more recent development.

grace and peace

May 27, 2009
2:26 am
Avatar
glittered when he walked
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
121sp_Permalink sp_Print

I'd agree with Carlin witticism for certain.

Libs threads are a recent development but the "diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution" continues to this very day...and sadly..I don't think it will leave us soon enough.

May 27, 2009
4:38 am
Avatar
truthBtold
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
122sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hey ya'll - I don't mind tootin my own horn and all - but I really thought I had expressed some pretty good stuff in my 5-14-09 post and nary no one responded good/bad or otherwise.

Felt like my thread was just plowed over.

Is that was this is all about?

So hell bent and whiskey bound (as Hank Williams Jr would attest to...) that you just glide right over my stuff in an effort to hold steadfast upon your own personal agenda(s) that nary anyone else can get a word in edgewise????

Or is it just that important and imperative that your own personal agendas rise above any and every other thing that someone else has to offer regardless?

USED TO - before I ever thought about buying a book on amazon.com I would just naturally gravitate towards all of the positive responses to kind of reitereate and validate my reasonings behind ordering such book in the firsrt place and would kind of pooh-pooh those negative comments.

However, the older I get, the more I realize just how important reading the negative, critical (and eventually helpful) reviews could be in the long run....the big picture.

That the actual negativity was actually helpful.

All that being said - you all just go on arguing. But please, just know, that I tried to interject a little somethin' somethin' not normally found in the first place.

Ya'll can just go about your business as business as stubborn usual. But I still say - if you are open to another slant/perspective and can spare yourselves just a couple of minutes of suspended - not animation = but perspective - you might - just might be able to grasp just a little-bitty portion of what I was trying to ascertain to ya'll.

That's all.........

May 27, 2009
8:39 pm
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
123sp_Permalink sp_Print

A quote...

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion - several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven."

~Mark Twain

May 28, 2009
9:51 am
Avatar
bereft
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
124sp_Permalink sp_Print

Mark Twain, an atheist, said this: "A myriad of men are born, they labor and sweat and struggle for bread. They squabble and scold and fight. They scramble for little mean advantages over each other. Age creeps upon them. Infirmities follow. Shames and humiliations bring down their prides and their vanities. Those they love are taken from them and the joy of life has turned to aching grief. The burden of pain and care and misery grows heavier year by year. At length, ambition is dead. Pride is dead. Vanity is dead

Longing for release is in their place. It comes at last. Death, the only unpoisoned gift earth ever had for them. And they vanish from a world where they were of no consequence, where they achieved nothing, where they were a mistake and a failure and a foolishness, where they have left no sign that they have existed, a world which will lament them a day and forget them forever. And then another myriad takes their place and copies all they did and goes along the same profitless road and vanishes as they vanished to make room for another and another and millions of myriads to follow the same arid path through the same desert and accomplish what the first myriad and all the myriads that came after it accomplished...nothing."

grace and peace

May 28, 2009
11:09 am
Avatar
marypoppins
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
125sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yes, Bereft, that's another great and TRUE quote. There probably are large numbers of "men" who live their lives in this way.

So what?

I don't. That's all I have control over. And if you feel your life is remarkable and hope that heaven awaits, great! I would also like to believe there's a heaven - a place where I may meet up with people I've lost.

Mark Twain was right that many are killed or hurt in the name of religion. Organized religion is in large part about control and power and money.

But, religion helps a lot of people, too. Clearly, it helps you, Bereft. That's fantastic.

I'm not arguing with you anymore. It's futile, and it disturbed my inner peace. I'm okay with who I am and with what I believe. And there's nothing you can say or do to change that.

Grace and peace back at you!

Sincerely,

Mary

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
22
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 111143
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38716
Posts: 714574
Newest Members:
ronaldcarter, Andrewank, petterson20, KarlWalter, ChristopherStanley, OsbornWebb
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information