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Jesus isn't the ONLY way
May 19, 2009
10:29 am
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soofoo
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Amen Healing and Peace!

May 19, 2009
11:20 am
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glittered when he walked
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My God can beat up your God?

May 19, 2009
11:27 am
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glittered when he walked
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Who wins in a fight? Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny? And how would each do against the Tooth Fairy? My money is on the Tooth Fairy...anyone who collects teeth must have a mean streak deep inside.

May 19, 2009
11:31 am
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glittered when he walked
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It's like arguing about a favorite color.

May 19, 2009
11:32 am
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glittered when he walked
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and by the way...Black (the lack of color) rules. ; )

May 19, 2009
11:41 am
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caraway
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glittered,

I thought white was the lack of color? White rules.. well in the summer anyway.. let me go look in the bible and quote some scripture that has nothing to do with anything and apply it here. "and Jesus said to wear white after Easter and not after Labor Day."

I love it when someone uses the bible to defend what they want to believe and support, yet refuses to adhere to ALL of it.

Thanks for the laugh,

Cary

May 19, 2009
1:50 pm
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lollipop3
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My understand Cary is that white is all colors, while black is the absence of color.

Or somethin' like that anyway.....

Glittered,

As ususal, you nearly made me spit soda out my nose.....

May 19, 2009
2:12 pm
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glittered when he walked
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Correct. White light contains all wavelengths of electromagnetic spectrum visible to the human eye.

Black is the abscence of light/relfected light. Ya know...black as night. Black holes.

Where you may be confused is this..green objects absorb all visible wavelengths except those wavelenghts in that part of the spectrum that we call green. white objects reflect all light. Black feels hotter in the sun because it absorbs all visible wavelengths of light.

Now let's discuss if Indigo is really a color or not...

May 19, 2009
3:03 pm
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marypoppins
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You're right, Glittered. We could never all agree on the absolute best color. Me, I like all colors. There's a time and a place for all of them. Some colors look better on me than others, but if it's out there in nature, who can say it has no place?

I'd never ask myself, "Which color would Jesus use?" and then throw out all the others in the Crayola box, but that's just me.

Mary

(Okay, sapphire, emerald, peridot)

May 19, 2009
3:38 pm
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marypoppins
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http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

"What The Christian Fundamentalist Doesn't Want You To Know"

"A Brief Survey of Biblical Errancy"

"An essay in hypertext by Scott Bidstrup"

"Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers." --Bruce Calvert

"One of the bedrock beliefs of most Christian fundamentalists is in the inerrancy of their scripture, the Bible. Indeed, if it can be shown that the English-language Bible that I can obtain at my local bookseller (usually the defined as the King James Version) is absolutely inerrant, their case that it is the word of God would be greatly strengthened.

But, if, on the other hand, it can be shown that there are clearly and unquestionably errors in the Bible, from whatever source, then the position of the fundamentalist is greatly weakened, and if it is based on inerrancy of the Bible, disproven.

The purpose of this essay is to make the latter case, i.e., that when the Bible is examined with dispassion and with objectivity, it soon becomes obvious that it is so hopelessly riddled with errors, impossibilities and contradictions that it is essentially ludicrous to make the claim that it is inerrant.

Also, I'm issuing this challenge: I'm going to offer the Christian apologists equal time; below you'll see a table showing the problem, the apologist's answer if I have found one or been offered one, and the reasonable explanation, as offered by common sense or modern scholarship. In addition, if you can offer a fully harmonized account of the death and resurrection of Jesus that includes all the facts, incidents and circumstances related in the four gospels plus Acts, I'll happily post it here."

Go to the website if you're interested in more of Bidstrup's essay...

Mary

May 19, 2009
3:43 pm
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marypoppins
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http://www.evilbible.com/Top_T.....n_List.htm

"Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian"

"10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian."

May 19, 2009
3:45 pm
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marypoppins
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more contradictions in the Bible:

http://www.evilbible.com/Bibli.....ctions.htm

May 19, 2009
4:19 pm
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bereft
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The word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.... Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" (1 Cor. 1:18, 20)

with all you have posted, you still can't answer one simple question: how did Job know?

grace and peace

May 20, 2009
10:58 am
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free2choose
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How did Job know what???

BTW, the story of Job in the Bible is one of the most disgusting, dispicable stories I have EVER heard anywhere. It just reinforces my opinion that if the God of the Bible (Old Testament) does exist he is a vengeful, hateful, uncaring God. Which would perfectly explain how an all knowing, all powerful God would allow the world to become as screwed up as it is now...

I have a question if anyone can answer. What came about to make the harsh God of the old testament (ie: Noah, Job, Sodom and Gomorrah, all those instances of "smiting" he did, etc.)... what happened to make him do a complete 180 and stop hating on sinners and decide to send his 'son" as a savior? It seemed like the OT God kinda hated people. So why would he want to save them?

May 20, 2009
11:15 am
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red blonde
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Is hearing the 'voice' of God, Jesus or an angel a miracle or just 'providence'? Especially if it saved your life by listening to that voice...but didn't even know that your life was in jeapordy?

May 20, 2009
12:09 pm
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glittered when he walked
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Maybe I should worship Johnny Cash aka "the man in black." given my preference for black.

nah on second thought...he was a pretty cool dude though, and the last thing he'd want would be someone worshiping him

May 20, 2009
12:48 pm
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soofoo
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Free2choose,

I will explain this as I understand it. I think that the old testament is a story. It isn't true in the same way that the words of the Christ are true. It's a story to explain how our relationship with God was before God came to be with us. We didn't understand Him. We didn't know Him, we only feared Him. Jesus Christ said that before He was with us, He used stories to teach us, but that once He was with us, we could understand the truth more directly. I don't want to get cryptic but this really has nothing to do with time either. Time is only real to each of us as a tool, so when I say "before God was with us" I don't mean necessarily before Jesus the Christ was born. If the part about time didn't make sense, just ignore it, I'll make sense soon.

The Old Testament, I think should be read with a great deal of detachment. Just like you need ears to hear, and eyes to see, you need the spirit to know God. The stories in the old testament are full of characters who can't know God, they can obey Him or fear Him or run and hide from Him. These people don't really know right from wrong. Abraham sets off to kill his son on God's order because he cannot differentiate good from evil. What good is obedience without a soul? I think we are meant to be shocked and horrified at this point in the OT. I think we are meant to see the folly in blind obedience. Killing one's own child is pretty awful universally. Imagine if you heard something say "I am God. Now kill your child to please me." What would you do? I know what I would do. I would say "You're not God, you phony. Go away." Then I would call crisis intervention and tell them I was either hallucinating or the devil was just talking to me and grab my crucifix to cover my bases. I'm getting a little silly here, but my point is that it's okay to read the bible with a rational mind and a loving heart. You don't have to take any official's word on what it means, because you have the spirit yourself. And after all, God told us there would be plenty of hypocrites who claimed to know Him that didn't know Him.

My love to you.

Now almost all religious folks will disagree with me on this.

But I stand by this. If you believe in both God and Satan and you worship the one that is casting people into eternal hell-fire and telling people to kill their children, then which one are you worshipping? How can you know that you've got the right one?

We should know that God isn't throwing people into eternal hellfire and telling people to kill their children because of what is in our hearts. A book, even a holy book, cannot give you a soul, a conscience, a spirit, and it can't substitute for those things.

So people get very confused, and the old testament is just chock full of that stuff. We needed God to come and tell us "Do not be afraid."

May 20, 2009
1:36 pm
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caraway
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This all reads like, "The Chronicles of Narnia", or Harry Potter. I just don't know how, or why, anyone would believe the Bible is factual; realistic. I believe it is book filled with some historical reference and some fiction.

It is frustrating to me when someone uses scripture from the Bible to prove it's validity.. One could never write a report and do that? Back this up with more than blind faith, and maybe I'll listen.

Until then, Jesus is a teacher, preacher, heck of a nice guy, and much like Martin L. King, Jr.; he was human.

Cary

May 20, 2009
2:06 pm
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marypoppins
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"Bible Quotes for May 20"

"Kill Followers of Other Religions"

"While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)"

http://www.evilbible.com/May.htm

May 20, 2009
4:37 pm
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StronginHim77
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A simple statement from Ma Strong:

Dear Mary,

I am one of those "tongue-talking," occasionally laying on the floor, soaking in His Presence, "FUNDIES." Although I believe in (and love) the Bible, considering it the written Word of God, I consider my personal relationship with Jesus the most important relationship in my life. Hopefully, the spillover of this love relationship with my Creator has resulted in me being a better, kinder, more selfless person to those around me. If not, I am not much of a disciple of the One I claim to love and serve.

Debating about the veracity of the Bible is wasted time. As a college student, I studied the Bible for its literary (poetical) and historical content. However, it meant nothing to me beyond mere words.

Today, I find strength, peace, direction and hope within its pages. But this is a byproduct of my relationship with Jesus.

It is hard to know that my praying in tongues quietly (both for myself and others) would be offensive, but I guess this is inevitable. We are always going to offend someone, right? And if His Presence is so intense that I occasionally find myself curled up on the floor with Him for hours, soaking Him up, I make no apology for it. Hopefully, that time spent in His Presence helps me be more of what He has called me to be: His servant and a servant to those around me.

Faith is a personal thing. It is subjective...not objective. We cannot change, alter, dissuade or argue another person's spiritual beliefs which are (generally) predicated on their experiences and personal interaction with God. No one could ever convince me to believe in Jesus. Only HE was able to do that, via astonishing personal encounters with Him in my mid-thirties. Conversely, no one can ever say anything to diminish my love for Him or the love I receive from Him.

Threads, such as this one, are somewhat futile. That's why it's called "faith," believing in something we cannot prove, but choose to believe.

I choose to believe.

Respectfully,

Ma Strong

May 20, 2009
7:32 pm
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Healing.. and peace
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I suppose I'm not considered a "Funamentalist Christian" after reading the post that Mary has posted...Because "10 - I don't vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, and don't feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - I don't feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - I don't laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - My face remains the same, with no purple whatsoever when I hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - I would never laugh at any other beliefs including the Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - I certainly don't and haven't spent my life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - I don't believe the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. My only proof I need is what I know, and I don't care about what other think, believe or say, if they speak in "tongues" or not. None of that matters to me.

2 - I believe that the sucess rate of prayers answered are much higher then 0.01%, many that none of us are even are aware of which happens in our everyday lifes.

You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - I'm sure I know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian because I am one, and I don't assume that I know more then any atheists, agnostics about the Bible, because I don't have to, I know what is in my heart, so that's all I really need to know. I have nothing to prove to anyone as a Christian, I have nothing to gain by putting others down for what they do or don't believe in, so I guess I'm safe to say I can't consider myself a fundementalist according to the post on here describing such.

I'm simply just a Christian and proud to admit it, and I offer the same respect and love to any other beliefs, and people in this world, no matter what they believe or don't believe in.

Healing and Peace

May 21, 2009
12:04 am
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marypoppins
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Ma and Healing and Peace,

Thank you both for your posts. It's good to know there are loving, non-judgemental Christians who aren't obsessed with proving that they're "right" and that others are wrong.

There ARE people, however, who that list applies to. They pick and choose from the Bible to shame others and try to discredit them. They claim that they are simply messengers. They show no desire to really communicate or connect with people. Their motives are suspect, in my opinion.

Mary

May 21, 2009
12:07 am
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"Bible Quote for May 21"

"Punish Illegitimate Children"

"So it is with a woman who leaves her husband and presents him with an heir by another man. For first of all, she has disobeyed the law of the Most High; second, she has committed an offense against her husband; and third, through her fornication she has committed adultery and brought forth children by another man. She herself will be brought before the assembly, and her punishment will extend to her children. Her children will not take root, and her branches will not bear fruit. (Sirach 23:22-25 NRSV)"

http://www.evilbible.com/May.htm

May 21, 2009
12:28 am
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JONESTOWN: THE LIFE AND DEATH OF PEOPLES TEMPLE - Trailer

May 21, 2009
4:33 pm
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StronginHim77
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Sirach is not in the Bible. Just wanted to clarify that.

- Ma Hubers (who is a nondenominational minister and accredited Bible teacher)

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