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"Jacob's Ladder" and other "Death" Philosophies
February 17, 2005
6:04 pm
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Anonymous
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Anyone here remember dying?

Ren'ai

February 17, 2005
6:24 pm
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GullyFoyle
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I used to have a re-ocurring dream when I was a child. Monsters chasing me or something. I would wake up just before they grabbed me. Then I decided to not wake up before they got to me. I didn't know it at the time, but I think it is called "directed Dreaming" or something like that.

Anyway, I let them catch me. And you know what? They proceeded to tear me limb from limb. I don't remember if I perceived pain in the dream or what. But I never had that nightmare again.

Just something dredged up by your post.

Gully

February 17, 2005
6:48 pm
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Ren'ai

I posted here before I read about your therapist. Once again, i am sorry for your loss.

I was going to post on that thread about "Jacob's Ladder", until I realised you had set up this thread because of that.

I met a least one person that may have been a victim of the Department Of Defense and CIA LSD experiments of the 60s. That was his defense at his trial. He had viciously murdered his family during a flashback. Or possibly had been dosed prior to the murders. Not much information is available about those experiments, though some information has come out. It is that Top Secret stuff that we think is only in the movies. But it did happen.

I have met several people in the military that have unexplained mental "Fugue" states or other instances of bizarre mental incidents. The problem is that soldiers are frequently targeted for these kind of experiments, as quite often it is considered they have no "right to consent".

When I was doing all my crazy drugging way back when, I was always a little concerned about if I died during an LSD or other hallucenigenic experience.

The question was, Would I know?

Gully

February 18, 2005
2:47 pm
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I think it depends on the chemical and how tapped in it becomes to your spiritual state. I think that once your soul leaves your body, the chemicals that affected it via your body are no longer able to impact you. I mean, once your soul and body separate, the connection is lost, so if you're drunk and you die, I would think you'd suddenly find yourself sober and saying "What the fuck just happened to me?"

I remember dying once. I was about 6 years old, living on a prairie. My father was trying to nurse me back to health to no avail. I saw this vision 'in reverse' while meditating once. I was hovering over this little homestead, and then suddenly sank down into the body of this 6 year old child. It was a trip.

I have also had a recurring nightmare about being ripped apart by a Great White Shark. In my dream, I can actually see my intestines unravel beneath my body so far into the water that I can't see the end anymore--then I die. I haven't had this dream in a long time either. I have had lots of dreams about petting or playing with sharks, though, which I hope means I have overcome whatever fear I had that something was just going to rip me to shreds.

I believe the government has done some very ugly things to our soldiers and the members of foriegn military groups. It's so shameful!!!

Love,

Ren'ai

February 18, 2005
4:29 pm
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GullyFoyle
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Was that death a regression, or did it happen in this lifetime?

I had an out of body experience once. I wwas practicing astral projection or some other kind of thing like that. I was lying in my bed, then I lifted out of the body and floated up through the ceiling and room. I reached the height of TV antennae. i remember looking out over the area, the view was perfect. It was kind of chilly, but not cold. the wind moved my clothes, but I couldn't feel it. I became frightened and then snapped, and I mean, snapped, back into my body. Only time it ever happened.

Question is, if it is an out-of-body, how come you have clothes on?

I think that in your dreams, like in life, if you confront your fears, they no longer maintain a hold on you. Doesn't mean they can't hurt or kill (in real life, that is) But there is no longer fear.

Gully

February 18, 2005
4:49 pm
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Cici
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How would memories be carried over?

I'm just wondering, since I have memory loss due to brain damage - I have a different view of this and I kinda think, uh....how is this possible?

Because of the brain damage from my seizure disorder I have nearly NO short-term memory, and I have begun to lose older memories as well. I have to write everything down.

I don't remember hardly anything at all, really. I barely remember what my exHusband looked like!!

I know of one man who had brain damage so severe that he had no memory whatsoever. He lived with his parents and acted like they were strangers. He would ask to go home, they would take him out and drive him around the block and then take him back to the same house and he would be like, OH! ok.

Anyways, this is weird to me, sorry, years ago I was totally into this kinda thing but now...because of my memory loss issues, I'm skeptical. Memories are stored in organic brain tissue. I have a dead part in my brain, so I have lost memories.

February 18, 2005
5:15 pm
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I know what it's like to lose your memory. I can't remember who I emailed what, can't remember when my reports are due for work, can't remember whether or not I called my boss or emailed him about a particular problem, can't remember which of my kids I told to pay the water bill, etc... It is frightening and embarrassing.

I also believe in "soul" memory. I believe in this because when I was with my most recent ex I know I knew her from previous lifetimes. For example, I know that we lived together in a slum, very much like the one depicted in the movie "Gangs of New York" because I have been dreaming of the tunnels, scaffolds, and street-front places all my life. I can remember the smells, the feel of the cold, the hunger, the death all around, but we loved each other well in that lifetime.

The other memory I wrote about was also a past-life experience that came to me when I was trying to figure out how I knew this friend of mine. He was a strong believer in past lives and I was skeptical. I was into meditation and I decided that if he and I shared a past life I wanted to have it revealed to me if it was "right." Next thing I know I'm seeing my "death in reverse." He was my father. His wife in this life was my mother, and his son in this life was my older brother. It's why his son, who was just a toddler at the time, "recognized" me. He would never go to other adults, but he just seemed to know me and be comfortable with me.

Okay, so where I was kind of heading with all of this is "What difference does it make if I live or die?" And "What difference does it make if I die by my own hand, the hand of another, or of "natural causes?" I mean, in the grand scheme of things, can one person's life/death really be that significant? This is what I'm questioning and my feeling is that 1. It's not that important, and 2. Suicide might be the ultimate form of courageous transformation.

Now I know most people view suicide as "selfish" and "crazy." I, however, think it takes a lot of guts to pull off. I mean, I've been suicidal for a long time and I've NEVER made a conscious attempt because I'm afraid! I do have to acknowledge, though, that it would take more courage for me to stay and face my life as it is in the present moment, than it would be to face death. Seems like this is when I become most suicidal--when I look down my "life path" and see a lot of shit that I'm going to have to face and I'm afraid of it.

Seems like I'm fucked, guys...

But it's alright. It's always alright somehow... Hope. It always messes me up!

Love to all,

Ren'ai

February 18, 2005
5:36 pm
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GullyFoyle
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I remember reading once that there is a possiblity that all memory is passed down by the RNA or DNA of the body's cells. That would explain the ability to remember past lives. It is a cellular memory.That means that you have inside you, the memories of everyone that was before you. So imagine memory as an upside down pyramid, with you at the bottom and the memories of all your ancestors above. It's there for the taking. All you have to do is access it.

I have also heard that, for your present life memories, they are always there. They don't go away, you don't lose them. What you lose is the ability to access them. That's why, during a neurological procedure, when the docs start poking your brain (sorry, Cici, that may be an uncomfortable subject) with needles, you don't just remember something, you experience it again. You taste, smell, hear, everything. Only it is like overlayed on your present reality.

I have heard that there is some form of deep tissue massage that brings up old memories of traumatic events that have been locked away. The lady i knew that had it, said that it was very intense, and she kind of experienced the same thing I described above. I don't know aything else about it, but I always thought I would like to try it.

Every one is important, as far as I am concerned. Everyone is interconnected. God-mind, Over-mind, whatever you want to call it. Everyone is significant.

February 18, 2005
5:52 pm
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Also, we only use about 10% of our brain's total capacity. That leaves a lot of extra space to re-route around damaged areas and re-learn some things. So, Cici, maybe there is a way that you and I could find another area of our brains to store short/long-term memories. It can't be impossible. If it was, I wouldn't have thought of it!

Love,

Ren'ai

February 18, 2005
6:08 pm
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I forgot to mention the regression and/or past life possibilities of that massage therepy.

The brain does cool things. i once watched a gentleman who suffered a severe stroke, couldn't walk, move his arms, stuff like that. I don't know about talking or eating, I just watched them, never talked to them. I should have.

Anyway, twice a day, the man and his wife would go for a walk. I don't know what other kind of thereapy he had. It started out with her pushin him ina wheelchair. These two must have been in their late 60s or early 70s, BTW. The did this every day rain or shine. then after a few months or so, he was up on a troller or whatever they call it. They did this on a blacktop road. Then a few more months, it was the forearm strap crutches, then a few more months, it was two canes, then one. After about a year, they were strolling arm in arm, talking, enjoying themselves. It was effing amazing.

He re-learned, re-routed all his old programs. Made new memories or re-connected with the old ones.

February 18, 2005
7:11 pm
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Cici
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Well what I don't get is - like if I died and went on to another life, would I remember stuff I don't remember now?

February 18, 2005
7:25 pm
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Well ok here's the thing - I have very vivid occassional visions, when I meditate and when I was younger and could still remember my dreams. But the images I see are completely just not in the human realm at all. They are very weird, unrelatable to anything I can think of in this world, and indescribeable, you had to see them, really, I couldn't really explain what it was I was seeing. But it's weird.

February 21, 2005
4:28 pm
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Cici,

Maybe one of your most recent past lives was not lived in this particular realm... Just a theory...

I believe if you died and went on to another life you would, on some level, remember things from this life because I think our souls have a memory that has nothing really to do with our physical bodies.

I wish there were more people interested in this topic...

Love to all,

Ren'ai

February 21, 2005
6:46 pm
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Oh, I am interested. I have some dream memories that are concerning to me. I can't tell if it is something I read and then dreamed about or if I dreamed a memory.

I have a dream fragment from when I was very young, I mean like 4, 5, 6 year of age.

Waking towards the front of a long line of people coming out of a valley or a crater. I was maybe in my late 30s, early forties. I look back and see a long line of people behind, walking this trail or path up the side of the moutain or crater.

That is actually the earliest memory i have.

I have had other say things about me and my life and stuff. But I have to go to work... It's my Friday!

Continue this later.

Gully

February 22, 2005
9:34 am
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It sounds like this might be the thread to share an experience I had a few years ago. I sat down to meditate and had a brief flash of seeing myself as an older Native American lady with a long single braid, wearing a red and white print long dress with a necklace of white beads. I was sitting in the center of a circle and could only feel loving people around me, but couldn't see them. I was told my name was White Feather, the One Carried by the Wind. This name came to me another time, also, it seemed by Native American elders. A couple of years ago when I went to a pow wow nearby, I asked a NA lady there about it and she said I was seeing myself in a previous life and that others were paying homage to me, that is why I was in the center of the circle. I related my experience to her about sea gulls and she said I possibly had lived near a river, maybe the Mississippi. So, I don't know if anyone here has any opinions on it or not, but it seemed a very special experience to me and the lady I spoke with said it was very special, that not too many people get to see who they were in a previous life. I remember feeling very honored by it all and wanting to return to what must have been a better lifetime for me.

February 22, 2005
10:57 pm
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What an interesting thread you have here....

I have a lot of memories from past lives. I have used them to help me in this life.

Totally marvellous!

February 22, 2005
11:01 pm
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Well, tell us about some of them.

Gully

February 23, 2005
1:21 am
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TW

That is an awesome experience!

To All,

Wish I had some to share, but sadly, I do not. Maybe it is because I have been much too serious, until recently when I started to finally start to work on recovery. Now I remember how to play and have fun! But none such experiences as you all have had. Please continue to share, a most interesting thread, indeed!

Ladyvirgo, from one Virgo to another, I can imagine you have some wonderful stories!

February 23, 2005
10:24 am
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Ya know, Ren'ai, I've always felt a little otherworldly, haha.

Actually the things I see are very foreign, like the faces are not human faces, but they are recognizeable as faces. And cold, very very cold. Actually kind of scarey, like a creepy sci fi or horror movie. I mean, scarey in the context of what I experience now. Does that make sense?

February 23, 2005
5:59 pm
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Thankyou, Sew. I realize what I added to this could have better been posted here than on the Tumbleweed thread, a little out of context there, probably. It was about how I was told again about my name being White Feather, the One Carried by the Wind. It happened when I was leaving Montana and after I saw a white wolf waiting by the roadside near Wolf Point, Mt. I began to hear chanting and again was given that name. As I mentioned on the other thread, I was clearly not drunk or hallucinating. I was driving crossing N. A. land on my way back to Ohio. It happened right from that point at Wolf Point on. It was so touching to me, I found myself humming and singing the song about Will the Circle Be Unbroken, you probably know the one and I tried to do some of the chanting with the elders or whomever I was hearing. This was not any pattern for me at all to hear voices or such things, it was just there and then it left at some point. I don't understand it, but I certainly treasure the experiences.

February 23, 2005
10:29 pm
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TW,

That is so great. I have always admired the Indian Spiritual ways and the respect for out Mother Earth, nature and how they relate to them with reverence. I have never done any readings as I wouldn't know where to start. I wish I had an experience as that. Any more to share?

February 23, 2005
10:36 pm
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Does any one meditate? If so, what method or what works best for you? I do some Hatha Yoga, and the breathing exercises, but the mediatation I just don't seem to get. I never could sit still very long, go figure huh? too much nervous energy to get into it. My mind won't sit still and niether can I for too long (even TV). I think I could really benefit from meditating.

I was thinking about a relaxation tape or some type of music, but have no idea what there is or where to get any such thing.

Ideas? Tx

February 24, 2005
9:08 am
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Sew, I learned TM a few years back and found it very helpful. I don't meditate as regularly as I could anymore, but it made a huge difference in my life at the time. Maybe you could check at the library as I'm sure they would have info and relaxation tapes etc. Unless you have search and can just search the web for info as it seems everything is on the web. Same with N. A. studies. I have books by Robert Ghost Wolf which I haven't read in a while, but found interesting. One is Winds of Change, I remember. Another project for me to get into that closet and go through all my books again and see what I really have here.

February 24, 2005
3:10 pm
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Yes.

Took a iron fan to the face once. Not sure why I rembember that one. Memory glitch as it serves no purpose.

I did have the unfortunate experience of reliving about 100 days of a prior in about 5 minutes. I lost my young and was on a rampage. I behaved, poorly. I remmber it because it is part of what I am working on with my child now. Its still not pleasant, and a very real part of my psychology. I dread furure existances, as I think what I am dealing with now is a step on the path. Yuck.

A lot of people want to get into the past lives stuff, but really, you need to ask yourself why. I find most use it to escape the present. Every time someone tells me "I was a (important person) in my past life and I was so happy and wise..." bla bla.. I think its BS. There is no need to remember our successes here. Our lives, personalities, ect are a culmination of our pasts in my opinion. Of course, if you DO remember something, take heed. More often than not, its something major you are working on this life, and you are remembering what didnt work.

(like blocking a iron fan with your face.. that didnt work) 😛

February 24, 2005
3:16 pm
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Oh, and for what it is worth, more and more people seem to be recognizing, non human, existances. My theory, 2 arms and legs does not deffine Man, the most common collective right now. On the flip side, not everything incarnate now is Man, either. Quite a few 'others' are incarnating into the physicial, with can mean a lot of things, but I like to say that it is a tribute to their own development, being able to incarnate into a realm that requires a certain measure of Divinelikeness, acheived either by design (Man) or through effort (others).

Waxing philosiphic, arnt i?

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