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Is the Bible a collection of superstitious beliefs?
June 18, 2007
11:23 am
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bevdee
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OMW _ "Good grief...all of you sound alike! you guyz-z-z-z-!" Don't lump!! 🙂

June 18, 2007
11:27 am
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Robert123

Hey- good to hear from you.

"What I also find interesting and possibly a bit unerving is how belief systems themselves are acquired."

Have you ever heard this story?

A young man is watching his new bride fix a roast, and he notices that she cuts the end of it off before putting it in the pan. He had never seen this done this way, so he asked her why. She said,"Because that's what my mama does." the next time they visited her parents' home, he asked his mother-in-law why she cut the end of a roast off before putting it in the pan. She said, "because my mother taught me that way." He had to wait for Thanksgiving to ask his grandmother-in-law, but when he did, she said,"Oh child my pan ain't big enough".

She adapted to fit her circumstances, and taught her daughter the adaptation.

I always thought that alot of the dietary laws in the bible were just common sense. I noticed that in the christian bible, when god told Adam and eve what they could eat it was all fruits and veggies from the garden of eden. Genesis 1:29 " 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

After the flood, god instructs Noah to eat fowl, fish etc...But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. -- Genesis 9:2 "2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

I imagine there wasn't much vegetation that survived a flood- if there was one, so they had to say their god told them to eat meat, with the blood drained out.

That's just something I noticed when my parents forced me to read that bible from the beginning to the end. I never had that blind faith- I think my parents found unnerving!!

June 18, 2007
12:03 pm
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bevdee....right. I am 'lumping', after telling you all not to lump me. Apologies. 🙂

Maybe some may answer this question for me:

For all of the negative emotions that seem to arise from mentioning God, or JC, or Christianity, or the Bible....why is there such negative voracity, that will just not die down here in Libs, to try and disprove it all? These subjects have dominated Libs for the time I have been posting on here for almost 3 years, however I don't know how long perhaps before that these discussions were active here.

For such hatred and distaste of the subject, do you post because you hate it, and can't let it go, or do you want to know another perspective..(as I seem to be the only ding-dong who speaks otherwise most of the time), or do you want to believe.....I sincerely ask the 'MOTIVATION' behind it all...there must be one.

Thank you,

omw.

June 18, 2007
4:11 pm
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OMW- As for me? I love to hear un-christian- indoctrinated opinions. I welcome any viewpoint that might cause me to think outside the labyrinth presented in that bible. I love the discussions, and it is therapeutic for me to talk about or read discussions about them. So that is why I am drawn to them. But you've asked that before, and I have explained it before.

I notice that you always come to these threads, too, and have sometimes had a "negative voracity" (hunger for) or a negative response to the discussions of the possibility that there is another way to think. Cause it seems like you always ask that question in every thread.

As for motivation, I have wondered about yours?

I thought this thread was pretty un-negative, so far. Kind of a respectful discussion, with lots of contributions from different viewpoints. Although, as of yet, no Bible advocates have been able to offer any evidence such as Tez asked for in his first posts.

Maybe they're still looking. :O

June 18, 2007
6:23 pm
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Hi bevdee,

My motivation is that I really have a heart for these discussions. And when I say, 'heart', I mean I am motivated to positively explain what I believe. I see fear when God is mentioned, I see anger, I see resentment, and I see division of past relationships, and I see God getting the brunt of it, as if it were all His doing. I don't believe in many truths, but I do believe that people, all people search for something or someone to fill a void. I think everyone has a void. And too, I guess what bothers me is that information is good, but I think void of emotion. I see a lot of information and opinions, that I think we all pick and choose what or which we want to believe.

I have answered many questions over the years here, many times over, as you have, lol! (thanks for reminding me that I had been there and done that!) I have posted and sent much information, so I just don't go there too much anymore. I have learned that my belief system here in LIBS will not make a difference no matter how much information I post. This is why I don't respond to some of the questions asked. I believe that God makes a difference, as I said it is a heart matter with me. Information for my experience made me not much until I involved my heart in it. They go hand in hand. Information about God, to me does not mean much of anything at all, anyone can have information. It's what we do with it. It's how we live it that matters.

I admit it, I wish most had more positive experiences with God, because I can honestly tell you from my own life, it is worth every second. Someone else might tell you differently about themselves.

June 18, 2007
6:52 pm
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OMW

This is fascinating. I for one am drawn to the numbers-code-formulas kind of thing.

I wonder if those who lurched at the opportunity to shoot it down even read your whole post, much less the link you provided. Sometimes it seems the anti-Christians are as fanatical as the Bible thumping Christians.

Oh, well. that aside.

This is interesting reading!

thanks OMW

free

June 18, 2007
6:56 pm
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I cannot find the Dawkins thread, but in some research about him, I found this particular site:

http://www.richarddawkins.com/

Books are shown at the top of the page, but there is a rather interesting UTube-video of Dawkins at the middle of the page. A student, in my opinion has asked some interesting questions...that I do not believe Dawkins answered without his own prejudiced opinions. Someone else who supports Dawkins would probably hear differently. He speaks of blind faith/reasonable faith/and Darwinism. To me he comes across as a crackpot, but looking at his education and where he has taught, I would bet that he was a very interesting professor.

So in a sense it all boils down to, what we believe, and who we can find to support our belief system...for God or against him. Add to that a distorted view of God as a child, and we have people trying to prove through their own reasoning that God does not, or could not conceivably exist. Take another person, and they have the same belief system or background, and eventually believe there is a God, and you will have two different outcomes. It is probably a decision of what is most comfortable. Do I beleive in something or someone I cannot see? Why would I unless I had experiences to base my decision? It's a difficult concept to grasp otherwise. To a believer, reasonable faith and blind faith is one and the same. To Dawkins they are separate. Bottom line we believe what we want to believe, based from our experiences...yes?

June 18, 2007
6:58 pm
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Hi free,
Just caught your thread as I posted another one. I think it is interesting as well. And these men are logical scientists and mathematicians! I just wish I had the ability to see it for myself.

June 18, 2007
7:07 pm
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Not being negative...but I think some questions will never be answered, or proof found.It is all about personal interpretation and experience.
For me personally, I have found this thread to be thought provoking and it has inspired me to examine set beliefs.It does seem from the evidence here that the bible is based on myth,....but who knows?A very challenging subject to tackle.

However,ONW, I can also understand that God is a very positive influence in your life....and will continue to be so.
Each to their own as they say.It's good to keep an open-mind though, while also continuing with what works well in your own life.

Thanks to you all for this thread

June 18, 2007
7:17 pm
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bevdee
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OMW -

I see fear, anger and defensiveness when the possibility that there is no God is mentioned. 🙂

I guess information is devoid of emotion. Words on a page, but I guess that goes back to the author's intent. So is the info in the bible. It's words on a page, in a language that has been translated many many times. It's the emotion we attach to it?

And I can't believe I'm even responding to this, but. OMW, you just make it too easy - "and I see God getting the brunt of it, as if it were all His doing."

If not His, then whose?

June 18, 2007
9:00 pm
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"I see fear, anger and defensiveness when the possibility that there is no God is mentioned. :)"

bevdee, this is not what I said above. this is what i said:

"I see fear when God is mentioned,..."

The Bible is only words on a page to you, not to me.

People blame God, when we have free will. We were made with free will to choose what we believe. Too many people have a misconception of who God is. I see it in your posts, I see it in your posts Tez, if you are reading and I see it in Wd's posts, and guest I see it in your posts. Until you can actually say you know God personally, LIKE YOU KNOW AND LOVE YOUR BEST , then you have misconceptions. You may say, it is my opinion...and yep that is right, it is what i believe. I read about how everyone grew up, and all i can say is no wonder. I taught my boys about God, and they made their choice. They all 3 are at different stages in their relationship with God, and each one is unique, because they are of course 3 different people. But I can pull out a Bible and talk about it with them, and it comes alive...why is that? Can you compare it to another book that changes lives? Maybe, but who cares?
I have read books that have changed my thinking, but the Bible is the only book I have ever read that has literally changed me from the inside out.

I don't mean to be arrogant or judgemental with anyone, but you also make it so easy! 🙂

June 18, 2007
9:01 pm
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hey whoops...left out the word FRIEND! too funny!

June 18, 2007
9:15 pm
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On My Way

""I see fear, anger and defensiveness when the possibility that there is no God is mentioned. :)" "

No sweetie, that is what I said. I wasn't quoting you.

"Too many people have a misconception of who God is. I see it in your posts, I see it in your posts Tez, if you are reading and I see it in Wd's posts, and guest I see it in your posts. Until you can actually say you know God personally, LIKE YOU KNOW AND LOVE YOUR BEST , then you have misconceptions. "

This is according to you? Or according to the God that speaks to you? Do you see that everyone else has misconceptions but you?

"You may say, it is my opinion...and yep that is right, it is what i believe."

So are you saying that your belief based on faith in those things unseen and unproven is right, and my, Guest or Tez's lack of belief, based on lack of proof of the christian scriptures is wrong? That sounds kind of arrogant to me.

See- I think you're talkin smack, OMW. I don't see that reason figures into much of your conversations about religion. It is difficult for me to discuss anything with you, because you avoid direct questions and mis- attribute quotes. I realise that is a tactic you may have learned in church, though. If I hadn't seen you here for so long, I might think you were a troll from some Christian forum, because of the nature of your posts.

All the best to you and the happiness that godman brings to you and your family's life.

June 18, 2007
10:45 pm
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on my way ~ your conception of god is very different from mine; and religion has nothing to do with God I believe in.

I am not scared of your god and not angry or resentful either. I am resentful of those who think that everyone else should be thinking the same way they do. And honestly, I am resentful of those who portray God the way which makes me cringe, like a guy next door you can have a relationship with.

You are talking about other posters having all kinds of negative feelings. Pardon me, but where this statement comes from: "I think when Iran finally invades Israel with bombs, the world will see some 'supernatural' acts" ? Not from anger and resentment? What is it then, and how does it tie to reading Old Testament? Is this something encoded in the Bible?

I second what bevdee said: "All the best to you and the happiness that godman brings to you and your family's life." Wholeheartedly.

June 19, 2007
1:40 pm
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From reading all other posts and thread titles, 'Recovering from Religion', etc., what I have a hard time with, is how as children, some are damaged with 'religion'. Parents who made their children read their bibles, or made them pray...I question this because my kids don't feel that way. And the parents of kids who are my friends, do not do that sort of thing.

Matteo,
Regarding my statement about Iran invading Israel, yes it is in the OT and the NT. Russia will most likely do the same. There are also modern day prophets, who have been right on so far. I can appreciate the fact that you believe differently. And I am not surprised that what I say comes across as half-witted and foolish. There are actually some people in the world who listen and appreciate what I have to say and believe.

I am sorry that both of you took offense. Thank you, I too wish you all the best.

June 19, 2007
7:18 pm
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OMW

You said:

"And I am not surprised that what I say comes across as half-witted and foolish."

Nor am I. Perhaps it is your natural response.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flaps its wings like a duck and loves water like a duck perhaps it is a duck. There's nothing wrong with being a duck - if you are one, that is.

And:

"There are actually some people in the world who listen and appreciate what I have to say and believe."

There are actually some people in the world who listened to and appreciated what Adolf Hitler had to say and believed that party line too. Birds of a feather flock together. What does that prove about the veracity of anything other than how like sheep some people can be?

This thread is about shaking the gullible and pointing out the dangerous non-sense that Christians are perpetuating through the vulnerablity of their children and others. Nothing makes this point more poignantly than the TV documentary image of a tiny 3 or 4 year old, dressed as a Jihad warrior, toting a wooden AK47 as he/she toddles along next to big brother who is doing the same thing for real!

Don't think the Christians aren't doing the same thing in just as gross and much more subtle ways. They both come from the trunk of the same tree.

"Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus ..." How repugnant both as an image and as a hymm! But it typifies christianity and exposes its blind stupidity. The Irish religion based battle between the 'orange and the green' further points out the insideous nature of the Christian disease that infects this earth.

Bush surely achieved his power ambitions and wrecked the ongoing havoc upon the world with the help and support of Christian stupidity and Islamic nonsense - six of one, a half a dozen of the other.

I saw the Australian parliament rising to its feet regurgitating the nonsense that goes under the title of the lord's prayer. Only a perfunctory glance at the words that they were uttering, is all is required to reveal the depths of the non-sense contained therein.

Why should there be this Christian domination of our parliamentary system? Ans: Because of the Christian arrogance, that is only matched by its brother religion Islam, such idiocy and lack of church state separation exists.

I once accused a gungho tub-thumping Christian of having arrogant Christian beliefs. He replied that the "truth is arrogant". I nearly spewed when I heard that. Yet his attitude exemplified Christian arrogance in perceiving themselves as possessing ultimate truth dispite the arrant absurdity of their beliefs. The same guy, the holder of an electrical engineering degree from a well known university and in other ways seemingly rational and well educated, openly went around proclaiming that the holocaust and genocide in Nazi occupied territories in WW2 never happened. This same guy was a lay preacher at his Christian church! Duh!

Would you, OMW, be cast in the same mould?

June 19, 2007
11:06 pm
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"Because of the Christian arrogance, that is only matched by its brother religion Islam, such idiocy and lack of church state separation exists."

Sure idiocy. But one that have a purpose: whatever atrocities the state commits, whatever hard lines it undertakes inside or outside its borders, whatever war it starts, it appears to many as within the religious beliefs, and thus MORAL, so many more can follow with the clear conscience, feeling absolved of thinking any further. That's the trick. The more "moral" the government appears to be, the more popular it is, and more blind followers it has; everything, I should say: anything in the name of God. Believe it, Hitler and many of those who followed him, also thought that God is with them.

I guess as omnipresent, God is wherever whoever wants him to be, and especially where are the religious governments followed by fanatics of a religion.

June 19, 2007
11:31 pm
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Flabbergasting. Just, flabbergasting.

I wanna say something, but not sure what. Maybe I've got the wrong impression.

Maybe a question(s) is more in order.

Tez and bevdee, do you hate Christians? If somebody announces their Christianity, do you feel hatred towards that individual?

Would it bother you if somebody hated you because you're NOT Christian?

If Christians are like sheep, then aren't athiests like sheep too?

free

free

June 20, 2007
12:50 am
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free

",i> ... and bevdee, do you hate Christians? If somebody announces their Christianity, do you feel hatred towards that individual?" No.

"Would it bother you if somebody hated you because you're NOT Christian?" No.

June 20, 2007
2:28 pm
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I am not going to respond to a majority the comments above, as I have been accused of not answering questions, and I have my own reasons for that. Except Tez, I disagree with that man's comment that 'truth is arrogant'...how awful.

But I do want to say this...

My son showed me 6 videos on You-tube yesterday that are quite disturbing..for me as an American, and as a believer in God. They were about 9/11, and the facts that have turned up since then in regard to the Towers and the Pentagon, and our President. The facts are overwhelming in favor that this was all planned and a cover-up by our President....all the way down to the airports following orders to evacuate people so that Flight 93 could actually land. There are many other frightening facts stated as well.

But after all of our conversations here regarding Christianity, I would like to communicate that sometimes people are so misinformed that they do things in their own minds, 'in the name of God', or use God as an excuse. If indeed my President and his staff, and my military personnel in the Pentagon did cause these events on 9/11, and if they call themselves 'Christians', this really personally bothers me. This is not Christian. It almost makes me sick to my stomach, because looking closely at the leadership, this is such an adbomination (sp?, and such a gross misrepresentation of who God is. I keep saying, don't look at the people and what they do, look at God. I guess the Bush family has such power, that to even expose them would be a problem. So very disheartening and scary.

Quack-Quack 🙂

June 20, 2007
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free...

Real Christians do not hate, they love.

June 20, 2007
6:59 pm
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Hi OMW

Why did you say that to me?

free

June 20, 2007
7:19 pm
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Hi free,

I said it only because you were talking about Christians in your post above, and I interpreted your question "Would it bother you if somebody hated you because you're NOT Christian" that the 'somebody' might be a Christian. I don't think it was necessary to say it, I think I wrote it for clarification sake.

You know the more I think about it, I stick my foot in my mouth here so much, more than anywhere, I don't know why. Could be because this is like communicating through email, not knowing someone or seeing a face...it is so hard for me to guage through writing. But it's ok, I appreciate any criticism or challenge in that area. I really do not do it well! I hope no offense was taken.

June 20, 2007
7:33 pm
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Hi OMW

No offense taken, silly. I dint get the connection.

I gotta beg to differ on the comment that real Christians don't hate, though. Hate's an emotion, and I do think that all people struggle with it from time to time, Christians included. I know that for me, hate makes me feel yucky inside and so I try to find ways to overcome it when it overcomes me.

free

June 20, 2007
8:27 pm
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You asked:

"Tez and bevdee, do you hate Christians?

Speaking for myself - no. I have Christian friends. But I don't like their beliefs one bit or the actions that they perform based upon those beliefs.

And:

"If somebody announces their Christianity, do you feel hatred towards that "

No. I pose the same questions that I pose here. They can't answer them, proving yet again to me that their beliefs are blindfaith based and not logical. They soon desist from "announcing their Christianity".

I have a woman friend who suffixes all her statements with "Praise the Lord" to which I respond by suffixing my statements with "Praise the Lord Buddha." Funny thing is she used to get irate when I did none other than the same thing that she did. Now she has stopped this annoying nonsense at last.

And:

"Would it bother you if somebody hated you because you're NOT Christian?"

Not particularly? Many do. I get plenty of that here. It's like water off a ducks back. However it would bother me if the Christian Inquisition still had its demonic control over us as it did not so long ago. The present pope has just relinquished his position of head of the inquisition upon taking the top job. I would have been burnt at a stake for saying what I do now. Mindless beliefs were not always an option!!!! For many centuries they were compulsory under the pain of torture and a cruel death. That's the fruits of christianity!

And"

"If Christians are like sheep, then aren't athiests like sheep too?"

That's not a bad question. It would be true if an atheists' scripture existed that atheists promulgated as absolute truth. I've never seen an atheist's church, synagogue or meeting place.

I know that a few band together once in a while and that an organization has been formed in the US to fight Christian domination in the legislative assemblies. From my understanding, they are not well patronized by fellow atheists.

This would seem to me to indicate that generally speaking atheists are not sheep like in either leader following or bleeting. In fact even though I am an atheist, I doubt that some of my associated beliefs would be commonly held by other atheists to be true. And that's OK by me.

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