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Is the Bible a collection of superstitious beliefs?
July 18, 2007
12:52 am
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bevdee
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Tez,

Thanks for starting this thread. This subject prompted me to prove my suspicions to myself and there was a lot of lively discussion around this topic that was helpful to me in freeing myself from more shackles.

BTW - Baptism is not a Christian generated concept either. Older religions and cultures had this ritual, too.

Thanks again. :~)

July 18, 2007
10:00 am
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red blonde
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Bevdee ~

If baptism is considered a "cleansing" ritual, as in the Christian sense, the cleansing of our souls of sin? Then baptism has truly been around along time before Christianity and throughout the world.

Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec...just to name a few.

July 18, 2007
1:42 pm
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bevdee
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Red Blonde

This article was informative and lead me back to older religions-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B....._religions

You asked "If baptism is considered a "cleansing" ritual, as in the Christian sense, the cleansing of our souls of sin?"

Here is one quote from there - "Mystery religion initiation rites
Apuleius, a second-century Roman writer, described his initiation into the mysteries of Isis:

The priest brought me to the next baths, surrounded by the pious troop, and after I had had an ordinary bath, he prayed for the grace of the gods and cleansed me completely, sprinkling me with water from all sides.[38]

Akin to catechumenical practices in Christianity, Apuleius' entry into the mysteries was accomplished only after a significant period of study to demonstrate his loyalty and trustworthiness.[39]"

I also read in several sites that Judaism uses immersion as a conversion into the Jewish faith. There is also the Mikvah - you can google that.

Yeah- I believe it is basically symbolic of being worthy and cleansed from sin. Worthy to receive the grace of god (s) (desses).

I have been sprinkled, immersed, annointed with oil and immersed again. I wonder if any of them took? LOL

July 18, 2007
2:17 pm
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ggfred4
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The subject of baptism brought back this memory, the Ganges River in India. Hindus have used that river for baptisms for babies, bathing and cleansing their sins for some a daily ritual, and even cremated ashes are sprinkled in the river to cleans the deceased souls. I just don't know how long this has been going on.

Just a little trivia...

July 18, 2007
2:24 pm
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red blonde
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Bevdee ~

Been baptized three times myself. Dunno if they stuck or not either! LOL!

July 18, 2007
2:56 pm
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bevdee
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GG

Thank you. This ties it all back to Hindu and the brahma and all that- stuff I talked about at the start of the thread. My goodness. I looked for that, but I must have been googling wrong!

July 18, 2007
7:29 pm
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on my way
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I was always taught that it does not 'save' you to be baptised. But it follows after Jesus being baptised. The bible speaks of baptism with water, and baptism of the Holy Spirit. bevdee, I know you know this already.

It is supposed to be a declaration of one's being saved. I tend to look at it as a personal thing. I could be baptised in a river and it would mean more to me than in a baptismal tank. Come to think of it my 85 year old mother was baptized in a river many years ago.

There are so many different beliefs about it.

July 19, 2007
8:29 pm
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bevdee
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OMW

You say to me "The bible speaks of baptism with water, and baptism of the Holy Spirit. bevdee, I know you know this already."

You are correct. I do know what it says in the bible. I was surprised to see that this custom predates Christianity. Well, maybe by now, I'm not so surprised! :~)

July 19, 2007
9:38 pm
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red blonde
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OMW

Just a silly question...but why did John the Baptist do the baptism of Jesus in the river? And why was he apparently baptising others in the river before Jesus?

July 19, 2007
10:44 pm
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on my way
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bevdee, when did people also do this before?

red,

John the Baptist was actually the cousin of Jesus. His mother and Jesus's mother Mary were cousins. J the B was born about a year before Jesus. J the B prepared 'the way', he said 'someone much greater than I will baptise you' referring to Jesus, then when he baptises Jesus, he said, 'I m unworthy to be baptising you, you should be baptising me'...Jesus being the humble dude he was, just went with it. 🙂 SOmeone had to baptise him..he became a man, so he lived like one.

July 19, 2007
10:56 pm
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bevdee
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OMW

I sort of posted about this July 18.

July 23, 2007
10:18 am
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StronginHim77
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Baptism means "immersion." The Bible refers to many different "baptisms:" the baptism of repentance (John the Baptist ministered this); the baptism with water for all new believers, as directed by Jesus in the synoptic Gospels; the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2); baptism with fire.

The Jews did ritual cleansings in water, as did many other cultures and faiths of ancient history.

The Bible does not teach that we are saved by being baptized. It teaches that we are saved by faith. In the waters of baptism, we are to rise up "a new creation." In short, the old, carnal man "dies" in the water and rises up a new man. Scripturally, our sins are forgiven when we repent and become "born again."

That's about all I can contribute from the Scriptural standpoint.

July 24, 2007
8:11 pm
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on my way
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I don't think the answer to this thread was ever answered.

The answer is:

No. 🙂

July 26, 2007
11:10 am
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red blonde
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OMW

No? It is not a collection of superstitious beliefs?

July 26, 2007
2:50 pm
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jv63
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omw

yes!!! the bible is not a collection of superstitious beliefs...

To me anyway

July 26, 2007
3:10 pm
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red blonde
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OMW

I guess it would have to be as the interpretation or definition of 'superstitious'.

July 26, 2007
5:20 pm
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free
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If it is a collection of superstitious beliefs-

It's a cool collection.

I love superstitious stuff.

My vote is: partially.

🙂

July 26, 2007
7:57 pm
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on my way
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To me, no, it is not a collection of superstitious beliefs.

David was real, Jonathan was real, Solomon was real, Noah was real, Moses, Joshua Aaron, Caleb, The Jordan River, Red Sea, 10 Commandments, Abraham, Ruth, Boaz, Micah, Elijah, etc., Peter, John, Judas, Pilate, Caesar, Herod, Saul/Paul, Pharisees, Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar, etc. etc., and of course God and Jesus Christ.

free,
What parts do you think are?

July 28, 2007
7:43 am
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Robert123
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OMW, I am curious. I hear you say these people are real...you mean they existed and what part they played in the bible is a fact? Then I assume you mean everything in the bible is a fact and you take a literal interpretation of it? I'm just curious how others see it.

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