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Is Religion a virus?
June 21, 2007
4:07 pm
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Tez,
I am not sick with a religion virus, but yes I do agree that a 'religion virus' exists.

I only eat chicken soup when i have a cold.

June 21, 2007
4:35 pm
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No bevdee, I don't hate athiests.

I just watch the few of you here blast people's religions- for so long now, as if all Christians do bad things, all Muslims do bad things, etc, and athiests are just above all that.

Well, as group, you're not. You're no better than anybody else.

As a group, atheists have committed numerous atrocities against mankind. They have singly as well- Joseph Stalin is one such athiest who was just a brutal human being.

And if you wanna blame Communism, go ahead. Deny, minimize, do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better if facing the truth is too difficult for you. Sorry matteo, but your explanation is bull-dookey. I bet you'd have a field day if Bush said "I'm Christian, but none of these beliefs have anything to do with the way I lead my country." Yeah, right. And Khomeini's Islamic beliefs had nothing to with the way he ran Iran. Or the Pope's with the way he runs the Vatican.

Get real. Athiests are the leaders of the Communist nations, and their beliefs directly affect the way they run their country. And no, Communism is not a religion. Neither is democracy, a republic, or a parliament. Communism is a way to govern a country, and Communist countries are governed by athiests, some of them really ugly and brutal athiests.

The bottom line is still- people inflict atrocities upon one another, and people are the ones to blame for it, whether or not they use religion as an excuse.

free

June 21, 2007
4:59 pm
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oops- I posted to matteo on this thread above, but her comment is actually on the other thread.

my bad.

Your perspective isn't different bevdee. Christians get slammed all the time.

It's old.

free

June 21, 2007
5:31 pm
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free said, "The bottom line is still- people inflict atrocities upon one another, and people are the ones to blame for it, whether or not they use religion as an excuse."

I completely agree with that statement.

However, you are confusing the issue by insinuating that atheism is a religion or belief system. It is merely the lack of believing in something. The Communists believed in communism as an economy and way of life. That was their belief system. And part of that belief system involved being anti all organized religion. Atheists are not anti-religion. Atheists simply don't believe there is a god/superior being/creator. Nothing more to it than that. Sure, some of them are are bad people, but being atheist didn't cause it. There is no dogma, no book with instructions on how to stamp out everyone else who doesn't believe the same thing you do.

Hitler used his religious beliefs to rationalize exterminating millions of Jews. Same kind of story with the Inquisition. Yes, they were crazy, bad people, but their religion backed up their actions and they tried to make it look like they were doing god's work. Stalin being an atheist is beside the point. He was a communist. His atheism was not the basis of his actions. Communism and socialism are belief systems just like capitalism is. People are just as zealous and crazy about belief systems whether it involves a god or not.

It is all about power and control of other people. Religion, communism, socialism, etc are used as a basis for a select few to dictate how the rest of us live. Atheists don't have a holy book, a manifesto of how they want to govern people, or even a political party. Communists may be atheist, but certainly not all atheists are communists. Just like all Catholics aren't Hitlers. The difference being that Hitler used the bible to back him up. Stalin used communism to back him up, not atheism. "Not believing" in something has nothing whatsoever to do with China or Russia or anything else. Atheism is not a belief system of any kind. That's what we can't seem to get any of you to understand.

I don't imagine Stalin believed in the tooth fairy either. Did his lack of belief in the tooth fairy make him an evil man? Does the Pope believe in the tooth fairy? What about Billy Graham? Does their lack of believing in the tooth fairy affect the kind of men they are? It is irrelevant, right? Not believing in something does not make men evil. And there are no atheist manifestos saying to get rid of religious people. But all those "holy" books do promote getting rid of heathens or anyone not of the "right" beliefs.

The only thing atheists even bother to come out about, is when religions start forcing themselves into public government and public property. We are just big on separation of church and state. That's it.

June 21, 2007
7:04 pm
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I think I'm getting it now.

If the leader of a country or organization or whatever is Christian, and atrocities towards humans are committed, then Christianity is to blame.

If the leader of a country or organization or whatever is Muslim, and atrocities towards humans are committed, then Islam is to blame.

If the leader of a country or organization or whatever is Catholic, and atrocities towards humans are committed, then Catholicism is to blame.

If the leader of a country or organization or whatever is atheist, and atrocities towards humans are committed, then those who committed the atrocities are to blame.

Certainly couldn't be atheism.

And this extends. If atrocities towards humans are committed with guns, then the guns are to blame. Only if it was done by athiests though. Otherwise, it was the disease caused religion that caused it.

Makes sense.

free

June 21, 2007
7:12 pm
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I agree with you free. And very well put!

June 21, 2007
7:29 pm
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"if Bush said "I'm Christian, but none of these beliefs have anything to do with the way I lead my country." Yeah, right. And Khomeini's Islamic beliefs had nothing to with the way he ran Iran. Or the Pope's with the way he runs the Vatican."

Bush- president of the USA- a man who took oath to lead a country that claims to have separated church and state.

Khomeini leader of Iran, a Muslim government.

The POPE! Leader of the Vatican and the Roman Catholic church!

These 3 examples are confusing to me. One of these things is not like the other one, and I pick Bush.

Are you saying it is impossible for a man to lead a country free of the indoctrination of his religion? Because he claims to be a Christian?

June 21, 2007
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Well now this is interesting. State atheism cannot exist in a theocracy kuz theocracies demand adherence to the state religion, nor can it exist in any form of democracy, as state atheism cannot exist if people are free to choose between atheism and the various religions.

State atheism can only exist under a dictatorship, totalitarian government, or get this- COMMUNISM.

Imagine that. In order for the athiest dictators, leaders, and totalitarian governments to inflict their atheist disease upon other people, they must oppress the people's freedom, their free thought, their autonomy.

Atheism.

Sounds lovely.

free

June 21, 2007
7:35 pm
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bevdee, what are you talking about?

many people here, I believe you included, hate Bush's Christianity and have stated in no uncertain terms that his Christian beliefs interfere with his ability to adequately lead this country.

No?

Now I'm confused. Jeepers, call an athiest to the carpet and they just start dancing all over the place!

You're dancing bevdee!

free

June 21, 2007
7:36 pm
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Free- it's a good thing no one is forcing you to read the virus threads and such, cramming it down you throat.

June 21, 2007
7:39 pm
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bevdee,
your 3 examples are correct, I agree with those. The Pope is motivated by Catholicism, Khomeini is motivated by Islam mainly because they hate Christianity, The Islams and Christians have always fought and had religious wars...dumb.

And yes, Bush rules by his belief system. Israel does as well, then as free says there are the communist countries that are athiest....which in a sense is also their religion of sorts, and operates their moral code, family code, etc.

June 21, 2007
7:57 pm
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free

Nah, I ain't dancin. I'm laughing and my mind has boggled at yall's defintion of atheism as a religion.

Religion is defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as -

"NOUN:

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion."

And atheism as -

"NOUN:

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods."

That’s pretty much the way I understood it.

June 21, 2007
8:19 pm
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Did I define atheism as a religion?

I must have missed that post.

Wikepedia states that atheism is a philosophical view and that there are different types of it. One type REJECTS theism, sometimes violently.

You're dancing bevdee!

free

June 21, 2007
8:23 pm
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free

I think you are on the verge of shouting. Maybe using all caps.

Have a nice evening.

June 21, 2007
9:01 pm
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Free.

On the 20-Jun-07 you wrote:

"The ignorance in this comment surprises me. Are you aware, Tez, of the manner in which atheists are persecuting religious followers in this world?"

I thank you for highlighting my ignorance. Would you kindly disabuse me of this ignorance by sighting examples of athiests "persecuting religious followers"? This really interests me.

I was not even aware that atheists even had a manifesto let alone having banded together under the common belief in the non-existence of any god in order to persecute those who do.

On the other hand, I am well aware of the Communist Manifesto. I do hope this is not what you have in mind. Otherwise it will be me disabusing you rather than the reverse.

Regarding communism, of which I am no admirer, the binding commonality there is the belief in socialism in several different specific forms as expounded by Marx, Engels, Lenon, Trotsky, Stalin and Chairman Mao. Being an atheist is a secondary attribute in communism not the primary driving force. If it were all atheists would be communists and that is an absurd notion.

Communism could well be considered to be a virus of a different kind to that of superstitious religion. But at least Marxism is based upon rational thought even if the practical application doesn't work in the forms that it has been applied, as opposed to religion which is based upon blind faith in 'divine revelation' and has failed miserably even it's popes the so-called highest authorities. Hmmm!

I eagerly await your hopefully educational response.

June 21, 2007
9:17 pm
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"And Khomeini's Islamic beliefs had nothing to with the way he ran Iran."

Whaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

If you are serious about this statement as being a fact in your mind then you are certainly an exemplar of the christian mentality.

June 21, 2007
9:29 pm
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ROFL bevdee

My ex-husband used to do this too- get up and leave when he had no answer.

It's a control thing, or so I've heard.

You have a nice evening too.

hugs!

free

June 21, 2007
9:33 pm
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oh Tez I just love some of your statements.

they're "Far side" material! Ya oughttta start a comic strip.

too funny

free

June 21, 2007
9:41 pm
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For your edification. 🙂

"Christian communism is a form of religious communism centered around Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, created their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves; a point highly debated among other Christians."

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._communism

End of Quote.

Whoops!! Christians themselves can't even agree about communism being atheistically driven!

On the other communism as opposed to atheism may have a Christian influence underpinning it - according to some Christians who like Marxism as opposed to communism as we know it. After all the Christian Crusades, with the highest authorities in Rome's backing, were very violent indeed; violence initiated by the Christians trying to possess control by force over the their 'holy' sites emeshed in the origins of Judasim of which Christianity is a heretical sect.

Try again for a better example of mass atheism in violent action other than your ineffectual attempt to associate the origins of communism with atheism.

June 21, 2007
9:58 pm
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free

Nah- not a control thing. It's a life to live thing. Sometimes I do other stuff.

June 21, 2007
10:04 pm
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Wrong again, Tez.

Communism can be a form of government or a way of living. here in America people live in "communes" where they share everything. But that's not the same as the atheistic driven communist nations such as China, North Korea, etc.

North Korea's psychotic god-dictator is an atheist.

Stalin was atheist.

The Chinese Communist government is atheist and they murdered the parents of my baby niece for the crime of being Buddhist.

People think that china is adopting out children because of poplulation control. That's media crap. My brother and sister in law spent alot of time over there. They thought they would be adopting a baby girl that would have otherwise been killed by her parents for BEING a girl. Not true. The chinese people don't kill their babies any more than American people do. Ya get a case of chinese parents mudering their baby girl kuz they want a boy and the media hype grabs that and assumes that's what Chinese people do. Well, alot of the villagers my brother and sister-in-law met thought Americans drive cars full of babies into lakes.

Nope. babies aren't orphaned kuz of population control. It's religious persecution by an atheist government.

bugs ya Tez?

well.

does me, too.

But I don't hate athiests. I hate people who use atheism as an excuse to murder people and commit other atrocities.

free

June 22, 2007
11:36 pm
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On the 21-Jun-07 you said:

"Wrong again, Tez.

Communism can be a form of government or a way of living. here in America people live in "communes" where they share everything. But that's not the same as the atheistic driven communist nations such as China, North Korea, etc."

I'm wrong? You puzzle me.

Equating hatred of the petty bougois and violence towards the reactionist and capitalists has everying to do with social control over their own living and working conditions by the supposedly undertrodden and oppressed proletariat, (the communist party line) with atheism is stupid. Communism has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. That many communists are also atheists does not prove that communism is driven by atheism at all. I thought that I adequately pointed this out to you by showing that Christians can also be communists. Did you miss that bit? Now you've given me more examples of same. Strange that!

Atheists can be the greatest materialistic capitalists in the world. It's all about power as you pointed out not disbelief in the existence of some big daddy in the sky. Christianity is a power base that fosters political power struggles by tapping into human weakness and the human tendency to believe superstitious nonsense.

My beef is with Christians who exert influence through the ballot box to vote in Christian politicians like Bush who oppose medical advances in stem cell research etc because of superstitious beliefs enshrined in naive Christian 'morality'. And that's the Christian majority, IMHO.

HIV infections are being supported and enhanced by the Christian Big Daddy of them all in Rome. The pope's conndemnation of the use of condoms has done much to aid and abett the transmission of this deadly disease. The same Christian super hierarch has condemned women in poor countries to breed until their wombs prolapse. Then this noble Christian has the hide to seek Peter's Pence from these very same people to fatten Rome's coffers - the very heart of the only true Christian church - for validation of this claim see EWTN programs. Did Christ advocate the formation of the Vatican Bank and the State of Christian Rome within a State with its own government, army and financial institutions? Hmmmm!! You sure can tell the quality of a tree by the fruit it bears.

Or is your breed of Christianity the only true christianity and all the rest deluded fakes?

You seem to me to be suffering somewhat from befuddled thinking.

June 23, 2007
12:04 am
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"I'm wrong? You puzzle me."

Yup.

"Equating hatred of the petty bougois and violence towards the reactionist and capitalists"

The people of North Korea are not reactionist and capitalist and they suffer atrocities at the hand of their athiest dictator.

"My beef is with Christians who exert influence through the ballot box to vote"

Atheists do that to. People often vote according to their beliefs. Often they don't. Many Christians walk the line on issues- many Christians don't believe that morality can be legislated.

"Or is your breed of Christianity the only true christianity and all the rest deluded fakes? "

Cheap shot. Lame. You're better than that. I haven't talked about Christianity. You must have confused me with somebody else or maybe are just upset that I'm telling you straight up. Well, that's your issue.

"You seem to me to be suffering somewhat from befuddled thinking."

Funny how I think the same about you. You speak as if you're an athiest Tez. You post as an anti-theist. There's a big difference. You're just as fanatical about destroying people's spiritual beliefs as some of them are about cramming their beliefs down others' throats.

Anti-theism is just as bad as fanatical religiousness. It's ugly.

free

June 26, 2007
5:13 pm
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Virus? Sick-making?

Religions claim to be moral with many changing and contradictory teachings about morality and immorality. They claim to set moral standards and to uphold moral principles. But again their claims are contradictory. With all their contradictions and contrarities, they claim to be holy without agreeing what "holy" is. Claim to be scriptural without being able to come to any agreement on scriptural interpretation.

Religious doctrines range and vary -from suicide, murder, rape, slavery and idolatry. Dogmas range from retreat from the world, in brain dulling hermit existence in monasteries, to politics and wars. I think it would be crazy making to continue to take seriously these institutionalized organizations for individual guidance, except for what they might do in terrorism and wars, which could kill us.

Religions try to exercise different degrees of control of the lives of their members or followers. Some religions decide which sexual activities are "right" and which are "wrong". Some religions try to dictate birth control and a woman's right to make decisions about her own body.

Religions control true spirituality and enlightenment by dictating the narrow pathways to the godman.

Religions are political. They are involved in politics and political plots and conflicts around the world. They are effective at persuading their members or followers to fight and die for changing and dying political causes.

Economics, getting and controlling money, is the specialty of religions. They want your money and tell you that it belongs to the gods or holy men. Then many churches and organizations elude and ripoff taxes, all the while expecting a voice in the government.

Punishment was used by religions down through their histories. Punishment is based on fear and threats. If you do not do right according to one religion or another then you will be punished. A god will be displeased and hell waits for those who displease.

Some religions will try to make you suffer in the here, and in the hereafter, if you refuse to obey them. But which one to obey?

Some religions are emotionally prohibitive, and will dictate which emotions are acceptable and which are not.

Religions will get you when you die if you reject their doctrines and dogmas. Their manipulations by the fear or dread of death, is one of the most powerful tools of religious and social control.

In some countries if you do not support the officially established religion or the officially established church denomination, then the authorities will try to make you wish you had.

If you do not believe like some religions want you to believe, and behave like some religions want you to behave, then they will label you with labels. Some will kick you out or excommunicate you.

People around the world are mostly ignorant about the teachings, practices, histories, politics, and the lives of the founders and leaders of religions. Religions take advantage of this universal ignorance. They utilize it and capitalize on it.

Many people who are members or followers of one religion know little about other religions. Religions need closed minded dedication in their true believers.

Religions have often been associated with politics or they have controlled politics. Religions have hurt and emotionally damaged more people down through world history than any other thing. Yet the religions continue to demand allegiance.

There are some religions which don't like the wall of separation between religion and government, the wall of separation between church and state, or the wall of separation between church (or church denominations, religions, and cults) and state (government). They want to unite religion and government or unite church denominations and government. But such unifications have already occurred in history. The biggest church-state unification in history is known as the Dark Ages.

Religionists, many church denominationalists, and politicians are working hard in the United States to directly or indirectly channel taxes to some church denominations, church denominational colleges, universities, and their secondary school systems; kindergarten through grade 12. They argue that their different convictions about morality and immoralities, are superior to the preferences of other people.

Religions want your money--one way or another. They need it, cause god didn't create money trees. The bounty doesn't come from a godman, it comes from the folks who work for it, and donate to the houses of worship.

Some religions try to prevent or stop writings which acts and deeds that are illegal our outside the confines of that religion's own ethics or morals. Some religions will do anything to prevent freedom of speech, of the press, academic freedom, free inquiry, and the free exchange of ideas.

Makes you wonder. It can be pervasive and sickening, like a virus or an infection.

June 26, 2007
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bevdee
Thanks for your post of 26-Jun-07.

You have highlighted much of the burden our society carries as a result of the superstitious nature of the religious amongst us.

I heard a Roman Catholic hierarch recently say that the Papacy was not a democracy and it governed from the top with their God as the divine authority. How convenient for the papal power mongers claiming authority from an imaginery God. The Vatican is a state that had its borders reduced by force of arms. It still has its own army, though mostly for show as security guards these days.

Then you'll hear other Christians trying to claim that Roman Catholics are not Christians but Catholics. They even dismiss the origins of their own bible as being Pauline/Roman in origin - albeit much having been plagarised from Judaism. Hmmm!

Catholic or protestant, six of one half a dozen of the other - all confused, befuddled thinkers. No wonder there are so many Christian sects, some warring with each other(Northern Irish debacle).

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