Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Is Religion a virus?
June 2, 2007
9:24 pm
Avatar
guest_guest
Guest
Guests

Hehe.... here's a nice video for us unbelievers. Enjoy tez and bevdee:

Boy Tells Catholic Mom He Is Athiest

June 3, 2007
1:48 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good mroning all,

I am going to make this brief...

bevdee, Considering how you grew up and what you were taught about emotions, etc...I don't blame you for feeling the way that you do. I KNOW that sort of religion and religious tactic and bait that some shove down other's throats. My only reply to you is that, you were taught wrong, it sounds to me, by people who took what they wanted from the Bible, nd made their own interpretations of it to suit them. That is not Christianity.

I am truly sorry that this happened to you. I sort of grew up the same way, only not so strict. I then later was converted and it is a way of natural life for me since I was 17 years old. Many people have made God ugly.

I think the reason you hear so much on the Support side about God and prayer, is because for many it is a 'way of life'. They live and breathe it. Probably to expect them to stop would be like asking you to stop drinking water and to stop eating.

I've answered you the best way that I know how to.

June 3, 2007
1:54 pm
Avatar
mj
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Guest,

I watched that video and it made me cringe. I wouldn't feel safe expressing my beliefs to a mother that was forcing her beliefs down my throat like she was. I felt her language did nothing to promote her belief just her anger.

Glad I am free to believe what I do today!

June 3, 2007
2:04 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,

I am not threatened by your writings. As I explained before, it is almost like going to battle for me, as my beliefs are who I am. So when I talk God...it is me being thrown out there, and my personal life is very challenging right now, so I am careful to choose my battles.

When I speak of misinformed people I speak of people who take the Bible and make it what they want. And they make God who they want Him to be.

"Please answer for me these simple questions:

Do you really believe that you have the real Christian faith whereas other Christians don't?"

There are people who call themselves Christians because they are 'good' people and do good works. Then there are people who are the John 3:16 Christians, and rely on the Holy Spirit day by day.....this is me. Then there are Christians who are John 3:16 people who are filled with the Holy Spirit and live in that victory, but by no means are their lives a cakewalk.

"Do you really imagine that I haven't experienced the 'rapture' that you obviously feel sometimes when you think you are conversing with your god?"

I can't judge you. But this I do know. NO ONE could experience God for real...and walk away from it...He won't let you.

"Do you really think that this 'rapture' is incontravertible proof that your god exists?"

No...I do not. My God exists for many other reasons.

If you do then good luck to you. But when you Christians wield your collective political power to force feed your beliefs upon me through legislation, don't expect me to sit benignly bye and cop it. I won't - I will be making the burrs that go under the Christian saddle. Of this I can assure you.

"What do you think is motivating Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and other mental freedom fighters like them to stand up and be counted in their war against the psychological/mental religious virus? "

I think these men will appeal to those who have been abused by religious, over zealous parents, and teachers, I think they will appeal to many Catholics rooted in religious rules, and many other religions rooted in religious rules and regulations that are impossible to meet.

I am not perfect. I do not like the fact that you clump me with all of these other Christians you speak of, that have mis-used what they perceive as the 'truth'. Some are struggling and will learn. Some use to manipulate, to get money, or to lord it over people. I am not responsible for them and their actions, I am only responsible for mine.

June 3, 2007
5:37 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMW

Thank you for your sentiments, but I function outside the realm of my childhood abuse. My mind has been able to function quite well since the abuse.

"My only reply to you is that, you were taught wrong," Who is to say? Who is to judge this? "it sounds to me, by people who took what they wanted from the Bible, nd made their own interpretations of it to suit them. " Honey, they all do it. I see you doing it here. No one's interpretation is the same.

I, too have wondered why you come to these threads - and throw yourself in these conversations with your truths, then withdraw every time, stating it hurts your feelings to be clumped, or considered unintelligent.

June 3, 2007
6:01 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMW

about this -"I think the reason you hear so much on the Support side about God and prayer, is because for many it is a 'way of life'. They live and breathe it. Probably to expect them to stop would be like asking you to stop drinking water and to stop eating."

I think it's a sense of entitlement- and a sense that simple guidelines don't apply to them.

I think it goes unchallenged by those non-believers so much of the time is because they are respecting the guidelines of this site. I wonder if to challenge the infraction would be an infraction on my part. So- those that do - just let it go. It's not unreasonable to expect adult behaviour from adults of any faith i.e. following the rules.

June 3, 2007
6:10 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

On my way

"I am not threatened by your writings."

Then why do you get go to great lengths to defend your beliefs when all you need to do is ignore my writings?

I don't believe you.

Could it possibly be that I am pointing out the dry rot in the wooden vessel of Christianity? Is it the fear of your lifeboat sinking that threatens you so much?

Or could it be that you want me to pretend like you do that the dry rot and worm holes in your boat don't exist?

Sorry about that. I'm just another messenger pointing out the obvious. I didn't invent either your Christianity or your god. Primitive Jewish tribesmen did that in the past. Modern scienmce is desperately trying to lift humanity out of such superstitious nonsense.

Christianity is a virulent infection, a carcinoma that is eating away at the minds of unthinking humanity.

June 3, 2007
6:23 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

OMW.

Let's see how rational your beliefs are. You said:

"My God exists for many other reasons."

Leaving out the so-called authority of your bible as well as blatant blind faith in the veracity of your beliefs, can you name just one reason that can stand up to close examination with reference to the three Christian declared attributes your god; attributes that are absolute prerequisites for him being a god?

June 4, 2007
4:52 am
Avatar
Worried_Dad
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Tez,

Of course I understand the concept of memes and culture having virus-like qualities.

"Is it or is it not absurd for Christians to claim that homosexuality is an abomination and their sexual preferences a free choice made by homosexuals?"

Yes, it is absurd.

But that is a different question than the title post.

June 4, 2007
3:56 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,
I don't feel threatened by your writings. I'm a person who beleives in the supreme authority of God in my life. This I do not question. I am one of those people who would die upside down for my faith. And given the chance to live or be fed at the end, if I am here and still alive, I will choose to die and starve for the greater reward. I could never denounce JC, I am sorry that you do not comprehend that type of a commitment. If you had a bottle of medicine in your pocket to cure the world, would you keep it all to yourself? I doubt it. See you don't know me. Here, we have limited time and limited relationship. You cannot see me, hear my voice or see my posture. You find fault perhaps with my writings, because I am lazy to explain...I just don't want to go there with you. No matter what I say, you have your own belief system. And that's ok.

BEVDEE,
I am not hurt. I peak of clumping in the sense that, there are so-called Christians out there who have twisted people's minds...your parents tried too, and Tez's past experience has done so. My point is, that I am not a 'Jaysus' tyrant nor a Catholic priest tyrant.

My point is that no one, not one single person can come face to face with God, and not be changed. No one can have that encounter and walk away from it. It's real, it's life-changing, and that is that. Maybe I have the same heart. I hurt for people who have not been told the truth. There is only one.

I think the athiests have done more damage than the Christians in our world and will continue to do so, but the final battle will be between Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

I am sorry that you grew up the way you did. Lot's of people have. I hate that, and so I try to make sure, even if someone does not believe that they at least hear about the relationship with Jesus Christ, which is totally different than religion.

Both take care,
omw

June 4, 2007
5:47 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"I hurt for people who have not been told the truth. There is only one."

Which one is that? Can you name it and what makes it true?

I would hurt for you if you, too had been told the wrong, distorted truth.

(((OMW)))

June 4, 2007
6:40 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

on my way
4-Jun-07

You wrote:

"If you had a bottle of medicine in your pocket to cure the world, would you keep it all to yourself?"

If you were peddling your bottle of medicine around - albeit for free - thinking it was a alixir of life, when in fact it was a poison guaranteeing brain death, I would feel obligated to point out the harm you are doing.

June 4, 2007
7:33 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez,

And to whom am "I" causing harm?

June 5, 2007
7:42 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Are you a part of a Christian church congregation?

Did you bring up your children as Christians?

If so then you can now answer your own question without my help.

June 5, 2007
7:45 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

HA! too general of an answer. i think you would most likely have to live in my world to determine that. gee, Tez if you were God we would all be dead.

June 5, 2007
7:52 pm
Avatar
Darth Seder
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So little time, so many bodies....

June 5, 2007
8:44 pm
Avatar
Darth Seder
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Take your share of hardship, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. A soldier on active service must not let himself be involved in the affairs of everyday life if he is to give satisfaction to his commanding officer: Again no athlete wins a prize unless he abides by the rules. The farmer who does the work has first claim on the crop. Reflect on what I am saying, and the Lord will help you to full understanding. 2 Pillage 2:3- 7

Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See His banners go!

I haven't sung this hymn in many years but it reminds me of Vacation Bible School. We would sing it as we marched into the sanctuary for the general assembly. My research on this hymn tells me that ever since the apostle Paul, Saul or whatever his name told the Ephesian Christians to put on the armor of God, Christian writers have used the symbolism of the soldier as a call for preparedness and courage.

The hymn was actually written by a thirty-one-year-old preacher and schoolteacher in England by the name of Sabine Baring-Gould. He wanted to write a marching song for his schoolchildren, who would be participating in Whitmonday, a festival day for schoolchildren in Yorkshire. His school was in the mill town of Horbury and his students had to walk to a neighboring town to join other children for the celebration. He said that he wanted the children to sing when marching from one village to the other but couldn't think of anything appropriate so he sat up at night and wrote it himself. He later apologized for the hymn saying "It was written in great haste, and I am afraid that some of the rhymes are faulty." Religion is a pyramid plan, beware of marching children.

June 6, 2007
12:49 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Brings to mind another old hymn, "It is Well With My Soul". The man who wrote this lost his whole family to a ship that sunk. He later boated out to the place they died, and was inspired to write this hymn. I don't know that I could feel as peaceful, and I wonder what he had to go through to reach that point. Sometimes I think if he could do it, then maybe I can too.

June 6, 2007
12:58 pm
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMW- just ask God.

June 7, 2007
6:23 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

on my way
5-Jun-07

"... Tez if you were God we would all be dead."

Nah!

It's god who is dead. He only lives in the fantasies of the deluded.

June 7, 2007
8:14 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You're a hoot. 🙂

June 8, 2007
6:30 am
Avatar
Worried_Dad
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tez, I am afraid I may have to take issue with you.

Tez, you have quasi-recently elaborate and argued at great length with Guest on this board RE issues of consciousness and Spirituality.

You remember that, right?

If I recall correctly, Guest chose to argue the viewpoint that Human Beings are mere machines made of meat, and that there is no part of an individual human being that precedes our biological conception, no part of us that survives our biological death, and no part of us that has any communication, connection, or deeper relationship to the universe beyond what we can accomplish as animals with five senses.

I recall that you took strong exception to those ideas.

So please, help me reconcile what seem to be contradictory philosophical and metaphysical stances held by you.

June 8, 2007
7:28 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

Worried_Dad

On the 8-Jun-07 you wrote:

" ... please, help me reconcile what seem to be contradictory philosophical and metaphysical stances held by you."

I would be delighted to do so. Thank you for raising a very pertinent point.

On the surface it would seem that my stance on the existence of god is incongruent with the idea that consciousness exists independent of the brain but interacts with it; that is, the idea that consciousness survives body death.

However these two ideas are not synomynous at all. From my perspective, conscious awareness does not necessitate the existence of either a god or of a physical body. Though I must add the caveat that I do believe the existence of the brain does constrain consciousness somewhat, not enhance it.

Theism maintains that conscious awareness does necessitate the existence of a god. Scientism - as opposed to science which is largely undecided - maintains the existence of a brain for consciousness to exist.

Since I adhere to neither the beliefs of theism nor those of scientism, I see no incongruence in taking a somewhat contemplative 'scientific' stance between the two. I would add that contemplative science appears presently to be in its infancy with the boundaries of its scope being largely pushed forward by certain theoretical physicists and psychologists such as Prof. Charles Tart et. al.

Why should consciousness require a 'creator' any more than the Christian god does? Yet deists blithely accept that their god always was and always will be, without so much as a hiccup, therein denying the need for a creator of their god. At the same time some deists would laugh at and decry my same belief about the infinite nature of consciousness, maintaining that consciousness implies the necessity for the existence of a 'divine creator'.

From my above statement, please don't conclude that I believe that consciousness has the same attributes as the Personal God of the Christians, whom I believe is a fantasy like the Tooth Fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster - may both be praised.

Perhaps this is where you see a contradiction in my stance?

If not then please help me clarify what you seem to me to perceive as a contradiction in my stance?

June 8, 2007
7:56 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

WD.

I am guilty (or was it OMW?) of steering this thread a little off track as you so correctly pointed out when on the 4-Jun-07 you said: "But that is a different question than the title post."

So ... as an act of contrition, I will steer us back on track by asking you whether or not you concur with Dawkins when he is reported as maintaining that:

"... the evolutionary imperative being that no child would survive by adopting a sceptical attitude towards everything their elders said. But this same imperative, he claims, leaves children open to "infection" by religion."

That is, do you believe that religion is a virus that makes children vulnerable to infection as a result of the 'proslytizing' of religious parents?

June 9, 2007
6:22 am
Avatar
Worried_Dad
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Tez,

I think you answered my question.

Let me see if I hear you.

You do not necessarily believe in a "creator" as exists in much religious dogma. You may be an agnostic.

But you are somewhat inclined to believe that human consciousness is not merely or only the result of software running on a meat computer.

Eh?

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
40
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 111121
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38715
Posts: 714567
Newest Members:
lovingLaa, zokgassi, Wilthe, Marek, ssdchemical33, jack1palmer
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information