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If there really is such a thing as reincarnation, can I please come back as...........
June 24, 2004
10:19 am
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lovesickpuppie
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if reincarnation is true then what did i do in a previous life do deserve this?

June 24, 2004
7:28 pm
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Some Hindi religions profess the belief that we tend to alternate between male and female for each successive birth - though not always the case.

If this is so, then perhaps the oppressed woman in this current birth was the oppressing man in a previous birth. Perhaps what goes around really does come around.

June 26, 2004
5:18 am
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silence
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I must have been someone like Elvis Presley or Jim Morrison in my last life. Now I have to pay for my past excesses with this shitty life.

July 15, 2004
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lewis
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Perhaps what you need in this life is what you had in the last.

July 17, 2004
1:01 am
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I wanna come back as a bald eagle.

free

July 17, 2004
2:48 am
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gosh, another impossible dream. its not possible.. hello.

July 17, 2004
3:38 pm
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lewis
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Do you know anything about regresion?

July 17, 2004
8:22 pm
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free
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I've read a bit about it lewis- have you done it?

Maybe we're here in this life searching for what was missing in the last. We do this until, at some point, we become complete. figure it out, so to speak.

free

July 19, 2004
12:51 pm
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eve
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Somehow comforting that we'd have more than one life to get things right.

🙂

July 21, 2004
6:35 pm
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I have undergone past life regression hypnosis in a group.

The hypnotist of necessity only asked very general questions and we were instructed to remember the answers when coming back out of hypnosis.

What I saw would hardly be what I would have made up. However, it explained a lot of things for me, especially relationships, that I have had in this lifetime.

Does it prove to me that reincarnation is a fact? No ... not at all. There are other explanations, all of which might be true. However, on the weight of other circumstantial and anecdotal evidence, I tend to believe that there is a continuum of a person's life process that bridges one lifetime to the next. I do not think that any permanent entity, or soul as it is called, migrates from one body to the next in some kind of leapfrog fashion. I think that the individual's life stream can be thought of as being analogous to an electric field under the influence of which electrons move in some dependent pattern. I believe that this life stream field, that is some function of mind, governs embyronic development in partnership with the parents' biological inheritances.

How can we remember past lives? I suspect that mind and boundless Mind are integral. Only our unconsciously self-imposed boundaries create the mind of which we are aware. When we are able to expand these 'boundaries', as we seem able to do under hypnosis, we are able to see more of Mind and our constrained functioning within it. Thus we can see a little of the past life experiences of our mind stream. But I don't think that a very 'constrained' and impermanent 'mind stream' equates to a 'soul' as the word is used in the Christian or Hindu sense.

Just as snooker balls ricochet around the pool table colliding with other balls in conformance with the laws of cause and effect, the 'impulses' of the dying person 'ricochet' and produce 'effects' that interact with other causes and conditions within the womb of the mother in 'our' mind stream's next birth.

In my less than humble opinion, it is our egos that insist in believing in the existence of a permanent and separate self that might or might not reincarnate - call it the soul, the atman, the spirit or what you will.

Thus within the set of believers in reincarnation there are very different beliefs as to 'what' reincarnates.

July 21, 2004
9:33 pm
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Why the egos tez? Personally, I don't wanna stop existing, but if I do, I won't even know, no harm no foul, so what the hey so to speak.

But if we do continue to exist, now that could be fascinating.

Personally, I'm not interested in proof one way or the other. Exploring possibilities is just plain fascinating.

What did you remember?

free

July 22, 2004
6:13 pm
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Free.

"Why the egos tez? Personally, I don't wanna stop existing,"

Well, from what the masters tell us, losing the ego altogether doesn't mean non-existence - far from it.

But this is the fascinating part. Without having either any reference to a separate self or any concept of 'other than self', the mundane awareness that we all experience now is suddenly freed of all boundaries; ecstatic joy beyond our wildest imaginations being the result. Of course in such a state our consciousness would be universal and beyond. There would be no 'thoughts' just raw awareness beyond comprehension. That is how the 'gone beyond' masters relate the state to us.

You asked:

"What did you remember?"

Far too much to relate here.

So far as the 'last incarnation' is concerned, I saw myself as a young girl in Nazi Germany during WW2. I saw myself working in a large clothing factory manufacturing German Army uniforms. I saw my sister getting married, and my then father giving her away. I saw my attic bedroom decorated with pretty flowery wallpaper. I saw my tall handsome Luftwaffe boy friend (the feelings that I felt for him make me feel ill now - I'm homophobic 🙂 ). I saw my death in a night bombing raid on the Luftwaffe base where I was attending a dance in a hanger. I saw(but didn't feel) my panic and concern for Frederich, my bf. Then I was bodiless and high up above the hangars feeling wonderful, all fear and concern gone. I was fascinated by what appeared to me to be a spectacular fireworks display.

This is just a snippett only. It proves little or nothing. Were I to research my name and that of my then bf in the 'last birth', it would prove little also. If these people existed, then it could also be a coincidence, or it could be that I tapped into the 'Universal Consciousness'. If no record of these people exist, then that could be explained by the loss of records in the massive firebombing that Germany experienced. I am reluctant to pursue such further confounding research. Except perhaps as a party conversation topic enhancement, such research is, I feel, a waste of time.

I hope this snippet is satisfactory as a sample.

July 23, 2004
8:38 pm
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workinonit
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Hello everyone,

This is my first visit to LBT. Fascinating!!! If I may comment on the conversation, I feel the way Tez does but a bit less academic. I have read on this subject off and on for years until I finally thought..Who cares? Like Tez says, we really don't understand or have enough proof to substantiate any theory. Exploring is the fun part. Using the imagination to create new concepts and ideas!!

I also agree that what holds us so tightly to this theory or any equivilant notion, is the ego. To think about letting go of the self is traumatic to say the least. Has anyone ever seen 'What dreams may come'? Robin Williams plays a very serious role. Any way, I like the way they present life death and reincarnation but, it appeals to my romantic nature hence ego.

OK rock on!

July 24, 2004
1:06 am
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Workinonit.

Welcome to the discussion.

'What dreams may come' is a good movie. I think that, the script writers had some good insights into the 'life between lives'. Of course no screen representation could ever do justice to what it will really be like.

I suspect that life on earth is like a dream state by comparison to the afterlife reality.

Buddhism, in particular the 'Bardo Thodol' describes in detail the stages through which we pass after death and before rebirth. The authors, great Tibetan Lamas, are able to remember their own experiences in deep meditation. However, the Bon religion colored the descriptions of these authors of the Bardo Thodol somewhat. Interpreters of the various translations into English, then added a little distortion of their own.

I think our minds create and therefore determine the experiences within the 'Bardo' period. Our attachments, cravings and graspings will determine our 'hell' during this period. The trick is to retain this realization that mind is creating what we see there and then!!! Even the Dalai Lama couldn't be sure that he would retain this realization in the Bardo of 'Life between Life'.

July 24, 2004
11:53 pm
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workinonit
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I like this concept. I have never studied the Buddhist religion so am not familiar with Bardo Thodol. I am, however, aware of the possibility of stages or 'debriefing' periods before incarnating again.

It is a fascination to think about what is to come. I have heard recently about the awareness of further dimensions beyond 3 that will bring on a whole new thought paradigm of our surroundings. What do you know about that subject?

In What Dreams May Come, I found the most interesting creation for delivery of this sensative subject matter were the different physical bodies of the children. It was a truly heartening experience to see the progression to awareness.

July 25, 2004
6:30 pm
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workinonit.

You said:

"It was a truly heartening experience to see the progression to awareness. "

The interesting thing about 'progression to awareness' is that it entails losing preconditioned awareness until unconditioned 'awareness' of our actual nature is achieved. Then, as the Buddha puts it in the Diamond Sutra, 'awareness' is aware that nothing has been 'achieved' by 'anybody'. Yet 'awareness' still 'is'. It's deep stuff.

July 25, 2004
7:55 pm
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workinonit
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Sometimes I think that we are a vehicle for the total understanding of the life force. If this is a 'close to the truth' concept, then it makes sense that we are all more related than we chose to see.

So, maybe preconditioned awareness is necessary to experiencing life. Of course it could be assumed that the life force knows the deal but not the experience. Achieving the state of knowing our actual existence is simply being invited to come home.

Hmmmm, sweet.

Gotta love this stuff.

July 26, 2004
6:52 pm
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Workinonit.

"So, maybe preconditioned awareness is necessary to experiencing life."

I wrote a book, never published it and relegated it to the trash can, metaphorically speaking. Central to the book is this idea of a 'Super Mind' who subdivides 'itself' into a myriad of limited, deluded 'minds' of all intelligence levels including termites and super humans if they exist. I posited the idea that perhaps 'Super Mind' is, beyond time, knowing the full spectrum of experiences through the instantaneous experiences of all life forms throughout the universe. Perhaps sentient being status together with human intelligence is the minimum prerequisite for attaining the enlightenment experience. For this reason amongst others, Buddhists value human life so highly.

Perhaps the 'coming home' experience of enlightenment, when the last bit of conditioning is let go of, is just another experience 'known' beyond time by the Super Mind through the human mind. Of course it is the human mind who creates the demarcation boundaries that define one mental object from another. No such boundaries exist outside of ourselves. The above is just my intellectual mind game nothing more; it's fun but not enlightenment. All is inextricably entertwined with all in this cosmic dance.

"There is no concrete reality anywhere; life is a dance between the mind and the world, where the mind is the leader. When the mind clings to a concrete self, the dance is a shambles. When we realize that nobody is an entity unto themselves, the dance becomes sublime." - written by a Tibetan Buddhist Nun.

July 26, 2004
7:30 pm
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workinonit
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Central to the book is this idea of a 'Super Mind' who subdivides 'itself' into a myriad of limited, deluded 'minds' of all intelligence levels including termites and super humans if they exist.

Great concept Tez. I have been looking for your reply. I don't often have this kind of conversation with like minded people. Thank you.

I agree with the human ability to create mental boundaries. Just look at the concept of time. But, what a concept it is!!! Who else but the force within could have created this?

To me, it is all a process. Breaking down everything into it's parts and putting it all back together again to gain understanding of the works. Sounds like a 'Supwer Mind' ? or a human mind? Maybe one and the same on a differnet scale. So much of life is simply the same model seen elsewhere. Don't you think?

Quoting your quote now "There is no concrete reality anywhere; life is a dance between the mind and the world, where the mind is the leader. When the mind clings to a concrete self, the dance is a shambles. When we realize that nobody is an entity unto themselves, the dance becomes sublime." - written by a Tibetan Buddhist Nun.

Sometimes it helps to re read our own thoughts huh?

Love this stuff Tez. Keep it going for me. I am totally jazzed.

Tell me more about you too

July 28, 2004
7:52 pm
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workinonit
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Tez, where are you? You build me up and then don't show up to get this thing going. I was so siked. Please respond.

July 29, 2004
8:32 am
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workinonit
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Thanks twinks.

July 29, 2004
5:42 pm
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Cici
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See this is what gets me. I always jump in when ya least expect me, Tez. Har har har.

When I had an egoless experience during my acute seizure episode, I didn't really experience boundless joy - it was like, a total weird serenity. A certainty. An undescribeable certainty, not that everything would be OK, but that everything would BE, and that was OK. See that difference?

As time has passed in the say 16-18 months since then, things have gotten all ucky and worrisome again. I mean, occassionally. It's like it's creeping back.

In some Buddhist traditions, the ego is eroded away gently, like water falling on stone - through successive lifetimes of effort, you continually attain more and more favorable re-births until you attain nirvana and shuck off the eternal wheel of samsara and pierce the veil of reality into an existence of pure egolessness, which is eternal.

But some traditions prescribe "burning the remnants of the ego away". And that has been my personal experience - burning, painful, ripping off the bandaid so to speak.

Someone said something to me recently, though...when you rip off the bandaid, you rip off the scab. And as we all know - wounds heal from the inside out, so it doesn't do to rip off the protection on the outside all the time.

So, I am deluded. But, I KNOW I'm deluded. I feel like a dog chasing her tail. I feel the observer inside my mind, almost - completely passive and simply watching. Watching my mind jump through hoops to delude me, all the while the observer knows "I" am fooling "myself".

The whole thing is taking on a existentially absurd tone, don't it.

Anyways, all the best to ya, mate. All life is suffering. But the third noble truth clearly states that the cessation of suffering is attainable. Peace...

July 29, 2004
6:09 pm
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Workinonit.

Twinks on 29-Jul-04 said:

"Workin, Tez was not intending to 'build you up', and he is not intentionally ignoring you now ..."

Twinks got it right. I was simply retreating within myself for a while to examine my pain and to learn from it. The two pertinent questions for me to answer were:

1. where is the 'I' located, who is suffering the loss?

2. What is it that this 'I' thought that it had lost?

You asked:
"Tell me more about you too"

You want me to tell you about 'my' aggregates? Or do you want to know who 'I' really am?

July 29, 2004
6:26 pm
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Cici.

You said:

"When I had an egoless experience ... ... it was like, a total weird serenity. A certainty. An undescribeable certainty, not that everything would be OK, but that everything would BE, and that was OK. See that difference?"

I sure as hell do see the difference. Attaining peace through thinking that everything will be OK, is based upon the delusion that the illusory 'I' will be 'safe'.

Attaining peace through the realization that everything will BE, is based on the realization of the baselessness of all things and that the base of consciousness is consciousness itself; that is, there is no 'one' to gain or lose anything and no 'thing' that can be gained or lost anyway. And yet the world is still there in all its emptiness and form, just 'BE'-ing.

And you said:

"Anyways, all the best to ya, mate. All life is suffering. But the third noble truth clearly states that the cessation of suffering is attainable. Peace... "

Thank you ... you are a lovely lady - a gem. Lucky is the guy who gets to share his life with you.

July 29, 2004
6:32 pm
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Twinks.

Thanks for so accurately pinpointing what was going down for me. Things are fine now.

The 'storm' has gone and I am much the wiser for its having passed by me. The sky is bright blue again with only a tinge of sadness, at what might have been, left in me as the new 'day' dawns.

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