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If evolution is true ...
March 5, 2006
11:34 am
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Anonymous
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... the only thing that makes us alive is the particular way the molecules in our bodies are arranged. You could re-arrange them in other ways, such as in a few gallons of water and a pile of debris, and they would no longer be in a state that was alive.

Why would our molecules care? You can take a rock and smash it to pieces, and it doesn't care. You can burn a piece of paper, and it's just as happy to be rearranged into ashes and smoke.

What's it, for example, to the water in my body if it's in me or out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean swimming with the fish? What's it to the calcium in my teeth if it's there or buried in rock on some cliffside?

If life is simply a particular arrangement of materials, and it came from inanimate material, why would it care to maintain itself in that arrangement over any other one?

In other words, why does any living thing care if it's alive or not, much less care about perpetuating the species?

Anybody care to answer?

March 5, 2006
1:06 pm
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Actually, if Intelligent Design, as popularly, defined were true, then you would have the same situation.

It is true that the water in your body does not "care" if it is inside you or outside you. Water can't "care" about anything. The calcium in your teeth also does not care about anything.

What natural selection has done is to favor the reproduction of forms of life that "act" as if they care about survival and reproduction. At the most primitive forms of life do not seem to "care" at all.

Viruses, for example, are really just packages of chemicals floating around that get copied when they find themselves inside the right type of cellular host.

Bacteria do not have brains with which to care about anything. Their behavior is determined by pure chemistry.

It is only when you get up to the animal level that you see anything like a brain that can care about anything.

Brains are what gives us a special advantage compared to "lower" forms. When you have a brain, you can actually "care" whether or not you survive and reproduce. You can think about it, worry about it, plan for it.

Conclusion: Most life forms do not "care" if they survive or reproduce. The parts of a life form do not "care" either. It is only the unique arrangement of parts into an individual organism that "cares."

A 1966 Ford Galaxie that has ben "parted out" is just a collection of spare parts. When you put them together you have something special.

It is the unique arrangement and condition of each of our "parts" that makes us individuals.

March 6, 2006
3:37 am
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garfield9547
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Seeker

God is spiritual and we cannot tough a word, love, light, kindness etc

To compare the natural with the spiritual can cause alot of confusion.

For me evolution is still taking place today.

If you look at Genesis there is NO natural explenation to it, because it did not happend naturally bur spiritually.

Its strange for me that dinasaurs has been discovered and some are millions of years old. We see the evidende.
I have seen NO discovery of the Ark etc etc etc Yet this took place only 6000 years ago

Garfield

March 6, 2006
5:10 am
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I googled in "discovery of Noah's ark" and found some interesting stuff. So when does one know what is a hoax or what is not?

I really thought it had been found? Now I see there have been hoaxes even as television programs. Can't believe everything you read or see.

This link seemed interesting and possibly true?

http://www.realityzone.com/dis.....ahark.html

Apparently it was found sitting atop a mountain in Turkey. There is even an Ark museum there.

But, they are still trying to prove there is a Lock Ness monster called Nessie who has not yet been shown to be real or not.

March 6, 2006
3:17 pm
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hey all, have some FACTS you may be interested in.....will post later this evening... 🙂

March 6, 2006
6:59 pm
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lollipop3
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Hi Sew,

I watched an interesting program on the Discovery Channel not too long ago regarding Noah's Ark.

The program showed scientifically that Noah's Ark could not have existed....as least not the way the story's been told.

I don't remember the name of the program but it was very informative.

Lolli

March 6, 2006
9:20 pm
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Lolli,

Do you know of anything else -- a website, for example -- to give the story on this? I wonder why some scientists think the Ark couldn't have existed as the Bible tells the story.

Seeker

March 6, 2006
9:35 pm
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Worried_Dad

{Brains are what gives us a special advantage compared to "lower" forms. When you have a brain, you can actually "care" whether or not you survive and reproduce. You can think about it, worry about it, plan for it.}

But brains are simply, like all living matter, molecules arranged in a particular fashion obeying natural laws. Why should they "care" and non-living and other parts of living organisms don't?

The best explanation I've ever heard from evolutionists of this is along the lines that "brains care, so evolution must have produced it."

If you subscribe to evolutionary theory, you must be able to explain by natural laws why brains care and other living matter doesn't.

Either that, or you must admit that it takes a leap of faith to believe in evolution, and therefore evolution is not pure science.

Seeker

March 6, 2006
10:09 pm
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Loli,

Is this the TV program? If so, considered a hoax. There was one that aired in 1087 also.

Seeker,

Just google in; does Noah's ark exist? and google in: televison programs does Noah's ark exist.

Many links with both.

Sew

OMW where are you with your information?

March 6, 2006
10:11 pm
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oops sorry Loli, here is copy from link;

February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

CBS, Sun, and the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) set out to control the damage to their credibility by defending the program against the criticisms of Larue. Since Jammal was continuing to defend his story, at first the three organizations went on the offensive against Larue. CBS Entertainment President Jeff Sagansky stated that "There was clearly a hoax perpetrated ... we're not sure whether it was on Sun International and CBS or whether it was on Time magazine." A press release from Sun called it "sad and unfortunate that Dr. LaRue [sic], a distinguished USC professor, would victimize Mr. Jammal and his family to execute a third party hoax in which he was the primary benefactor." John Morris, the Administrative Vice President of the ICR, made much of Larue's "long association with humanistic and anti-Christian organizations" and concluded that "This is hardly the resume of an objective critic." All defended the overall quality of Sun's research.[3]

March 6, 2006
11:03 pm
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just got home, ate dinner, getting comfortable, be right back!

March 6, 2006
11:44 pm
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Ok things to think about:
CREATION or CREATURE?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Genesis1:1-2.

Evolution: In its simplest form, evolution states thatsomething came from nothing.

Creation: In its simplest form, creation states that something came from something.

IT TAKES MOR FAITH TO BELEIVE THAT SOMETHING CAME FROM NOTHING!!!! SO EVOLUTION IS ALSO FAITH BASED!

We have Microevolution which sates that there is a great variation between the species, or a change within the species, for ex. dogs....we have many diferent kinds of species.

We haveMacroevolution which is DARWIN, which states that living matter evolved from dead matter through a random process plus time. Darwin said that electrical currents in the ocean caused chemicals to raise up and become living cells through chance, mutation, a random process.

Darwin thourght that a fish decided one day to get out of the ocean and and grow legs to become a lizard. There are no fossils to be found that documents this thoguth process. Even on his death bed Darwin said, " Innumerable transitional forms have existed but why do we not find them embedded i countless numbers of the cust of the earth? " Darwin died beleiving they could be found.

Dr. Steven Gould , Professor at HArvard University, and an evolutionist said "One hundred and twnety years of fossil research after Darwin, it has become abundantly clear that t eh fossil record will not confirm this part of Darwin's prediction. A species does not arise gradualy by the gradual transformation of its ancestors." Even he does not beleive and says evolution doses not work. No fossils anywhere show an animal with 1/2 a backbone.

Colin Patterson with the British Museum of Natural History, where 60,000,000 fossils pecies are on display, said: "If I knew of any evolutionary transitions, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them in my book EVOLUTION."

The fossil gap has not been filled. There is no evidence. And some of the "Missing Links"? Let's list those here:

NEbraska Man: Over i million years old. He was built out of one TOOTH!...the tooth of an extinct pig!

Java Man: 750,000 yrs of age...fit the profile of a whole species of apes, not men at all.

Pildown Man was a HOAX. There wasn't one, it was filmed withsomeone in a suit, you could see the stitches in the costume with a closer lense.

Peking Man: Found in the Orient in a pit. Many skulss with the backs taken out of them and some tools. MEn used to eat monkey brains, they were the skulls of monkeys, and the tools used to break the skulls by man.

Here are some other quotes about the human body and its design:

"A single fertilized egg the size of a pinhead contains chenical instructions that would fill more than 500,000 printed pages. In time, the fertilized egg divides into the 30 trillion cells which form more than 120 trillion connections." A. E. Wilder Smith, "The Origin of Life".

"Believing life could result from chance is like believing a tornado could sweep through a junkyard and the winds accidentally assemble a fully functioning Boeing 747. " S. Frederick Hoyle.

Then there is the eye problem:
"The human eye needs about 130 million light sensitive devices to cause a photochemical reaction that transforms light into electrical impulses for the brain. EVery second one thousand million of these impulses are zipped to the brain through the optical nerve system. When exposed to darkness, the eye can increase its ability to see by 100,000 times and it automatically protects itself through filters from the sun's ultraviolet light which would cause blindness. The eye automatically elongates and compresses as it focuses in color stereo."

In regard to the information above about the human eye, evolutionists have to say the eye evolved. Evolution also says that if soemthing is not usable it falls off. Therefor if the eye had to evolve over time, we wouldn't have an eye!

You all, come on!!! Think about it. Creation impacts your lives. If you think about our human body alone, it has to impact your life! Look at the bee, the butterfly, etc....do you know how many lenses their eyes have alone??? Thousands!!

In the beginning GOD created the ehavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Genesis 1:1-2

Evolution takes more faith than Creationsism.

March 6, 2006
11:49 pm
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And forgive the typos...i can't type.

March 7, 2006
2:57 am
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on my way

Genesis 1 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
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Genesis 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

March 7, 2006
3:09 am
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Genesis 1 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void;

For me only the mind of man can be void and without form.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

For me this is the understanding. God is light. When somebody explains something to you and you 'get it' you say Now I see. Understanding.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Question

Verse 3-5 - What was created?

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

SO AFTER 3 DAYS

Verse - 14-16 - What was created?

Anyone???

March 7, 2006
7:10 am
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Hi Sew/Seeker,

No, sew, that was not the program. I just watched it a few months ago(?). I believe it was on the Discovery Channel and it was called something along the lines of "The Truth About Noah's Ark" or something to that effect. It talked about things like .....if the world had flooded the way it states in the Bible that no one would have survived, because they say the air would have been so filled with moisture that anyone would have drowned just breathing. And other things like that.

When I get home from work today, I will see if I can find out what the actual name of the program was. I don't know if it was true or not, but it was interesting non the less.

Talk to you later,
Lolli

March 7, 2006
8:39 am
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Lolli,

Thanks for answering. So they claimed the air would have been so full of water it would have drowned anybody as they breathed. I'm skeptical of that claim. I was a physics major and was in grad school for a while. I've seen enough of computer models, such as the one on which above scenario was based, to take them with a grain of salt. They oftentimes don't know parameters very precisely, and there could be effects taking place they don't think to include in their models.

I'm skeptical of evolutionary theory, as far as complex life forms evolving from more primitive forms, because it seems to be unprovable. We can't recreate the conditions of the early earth, nor give experiments enough time (millions of years) to run their course in order to observe life forming and evolving, as claimed.

So it technically is not a theory, as it can't be proven or disproven. It's really nothing more than a hypothesis.

Seeker

March 7, 2006
10:52 am
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Garfield,

You said: {God is spiritual and we cannot tough a word, love, light, kindness etc

To compare the natural with the spiritual can cause alot of confusion.

For me evolution is still taking place today. }

True. I was talking about pure evolution, where there is no God and no spirit, but life is purely physical.

I believe in natural selection, but not that primitive life forms evolved into higher forms.

Take care, Seeker

March 7, 2006
12:13 pm
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lollipop3
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Seeker,

I personally believe in evolution. I think if you look at skeletal remains of "cavemen" you can see evolution with your own eyes. It really doesn't need to be scientifically proven, at least not to me.

The DNA of humans and chimpanzees matches at 99%.

Or something even as simple as watching a tadpole become a frog.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just saying that for me...there is no question.

Lolli

March 7, 2006
3:15 pm
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So Lolli,
If you beleive in evolution, do you not then believe in God?

March 7, 2006
3:31 pm
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garfield9547
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I have a question.
Genesis

Question

Verse 3-5 - What was created?

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

SO AFTER 3 DAYS

Verse - 14-16 - What was created?

Anyone???

March 7, 2006
4:07 pm
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vs 16 reiterates what was created in verse 14 and 15...the sun, the stars, the moon, to devide the day from the night, which is a separate act of God, not to be confused with "light and darkness" in the beginning verses.
These verses also state the "firmament in the heavens." It is very specific.

March 7, 2006
4:13 pm
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He created day and night at first without the sun the moon and the stars....HIS perogative as to HOW He did it.

But I will tell all of you something. People totally miss God, who He is, and what He means and how much He loves you. If satan can get you wondering about vs. 3-5 vs. 14-16, for example garfield, and what scientist said what and when and where, and percentages her and there....it takes one's focus off of God and places it on things that really do not matter. People will go around and around in circles forever, debating this stuff....the whole time missing the gift we have been given and that is to have a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The devil is alive and well, and trying to divert as many people away as possible from God....and one way he does it is through "Well what about this, and what about this..." Naturally, it is ok to want to know answers, but with JC in your heart, you get to know the truth about the answers.

March 7, 2006
4:13 pm
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seeker,

why should brains care when a rock dosen't care? A brain is alive and full of nueronal pathways and is programmed by its DNA.

Living creatures are care about being alive because of survival instincts and the fear of pain.

I believe evolution is a theory, is science because there is a ton of scientific evidence that supports evolution and is consistent with evolution.

March 7, 2006
4:49 pm
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OMW.....

I hate to say this outloud, because ya never know, but I would have to say that no, I do not believe in God.

I generally consider myself an agnostic, meaning that I really don't know one way or the other. But, I tend to go along with what science tells me.

And as I always say...if He does exist and He is all powerful and all knowing, then He will understand my skepticism and will forgive me for it.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Lolli

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