Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_TopicIcon
Icons, Idols or Symbolism?
June 1, 2006
8:42 am
Avatar
sewunique
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Do I dare open this question I ask myself, but I do want to get other's views on this question.

Having the misfortune of lack of sleep tonite, I observed several TV stations on that seem to have a popular theme on the religious programs.

It seems to me for prayers, faith and paying money, one can obtain; miracle water, green prayer cloths, white faith cloths etc. all in the good name of obtaining answers.

What ever happened to simple prayer and faith? Are these items like praying to an idol or icon or prayer beads? Or simple symbolism to "hang on to" while seeking prayer, as one fellow God believing person told me. She said her church is using this same tactic.

I don't get it. I do not like it. It makes me uncomfortable. I percieve it as another ploy for ? whatever their intention is to get you to put money forth in order to "get something" for it.

Any opinions?

Sew

June 1, 2006
9:00 am
Avatar
sewunique
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"The miracle spring water will..." a direct quote.

June 1, 2006
3:29 pm
Avatar
Wholeness
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I see a connection to the materialistic emphasis (prevalent in our society) at the expence of a search for the spirit that lies within. Rituals which involve physical items are important to me, but they do not involve any monetary gain for others.

June 1, 2006
4:02 pm
Avatar
Mardoll
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay, well I'm not starting from a place of thinking Idols are a problem, so I'm not going to touch that part.

I tend to be very concerned when I see marketing that basically offers to solve mystical problems with an exchange of cash.

When it comes to buying things that may be for a spiritual purpose (and, being Pagan, I have quite a collection) I look at it this way: Am I buying this because of what I think, or because of what somebody else told me? Would I be buying this if the religious reason went away?

But more importantly *CAN I AFFORD TO WASTE MY MONEY ON THIS?*

When it comes to making my altars beautiful and artistic, yes, I spend a bit of money, and a lot of crafting effort. However, I get a lot of meditative enjoyment out of making things, and that would be true regardless of why I was making them.

Religiously speaking, prayer is a nebulous concept. It's hard to hold onto. Unless you're used to experiencing profound results, it probably feels kinda futile (I don't remember, it's been a while since I had trouble with prayer). Physical objects are indeed one of many cues to shift your mental and spiritual perspective, and there are many many religious traditions that do involve specific objects for the sake of setting space and invoking particular modes of thought. (Communion anyone?)

I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with people who exploit that need in people for money.

When it comes to buying things, I never, EVER respond to hard-sell tactics, or television "Call Now" ads. Period. I consider my judgement compromised by things like that until I have time to sleep on it. Any product that doesn't think I should think before buying isn't a product I need.

June 1, 2006
4:24 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sew,
What you have described is RELIGION, and it leaves people empty and dissappointed, as it is man-made.

June 1, 2006
4:27 pm
Avatar
Mardoll
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wow, OMW, that's quite a generalization. I take it you haven't had much in the way of satisfying interactions with religion?

June 1, 2006
4:33 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

No, Mardoll...religion is Doctrine, Rules, legalism, generally finding yourself trying to be your best self, only failing. These people on tv are appealing to human nature. Human nature can only be changed from within, not an outward experience. It's about a loving, presonal relationship with JC, so simple, but relgion is why so many run from the idea of God...they are misinformed.

So yes,,,,religion can be dangerous.

June 1, 2006
4:54 pm
Avatar
Mardoll
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Of course religion can be dangerous. Anything that encourages people to join the crowd can be dangerous. All of the same mechanisms used by the local church to make people feel good about their happy little community work just as well when a charismatic political leader uses them to seize power.

But that's actually why I dissagree that outward experiences don't matter. The response to certain kinds of things are a built-in feature of the human psyche. It's important to monitor how you allow them to be used, yes, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

I gather that we pretty much agree with eachother that it's never a good idea to let yourself be lulled into a habit of not thinking.

June 1, 2006
4:57 pm
Avatar
4me
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OMW-

I agree with you...there is such a big difference between organized religion and spirituality. You can be spiritual, be good to others, do good deeds, without having to follow all those doctrines that religions (esp. Christianity) impose.

This is why I love the church I attend (Unity) because it is all-accepting without preaching that we've committed this or that sin and how we should repent. Although I started going because I'm a lesbian and I knew they'd accept me, I think I would go there even if I was straight. Thank God I discovered Unity...I had given up on faith and religion...it's so nice to be spiritual now...

June 1, 2006
5:13 pm
Avatar
Mardoll
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

See, that's what gets me. You're going to a group church, how is that spiritual not religious? You're not alone, there's a community present to influence you. Just because the rules aren't an orthodoxy, doesn't mean there aren't any. Even "accept everybody" is a rule.

So what's wrong with rules? There's nothing inherintly evil about religion such that if something organized escapes being horrible it should have a different label.

June 1, 2006
5:49 pm
Avatar
4me
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It is spiritual and not religious because there are no crosses/saints/other icons, no bible reading occurs, and the only things they talk about have to do with being kind to others and doing good will.

June 1, 2006
8:22 pm
Avatar
Rasputin
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: 0
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is nothing wrong with anything. It is the abuse of anything that is wrong.

Using crosses, icons, frescos, beeds, saints, statues,...etc are part of a tradition of many different denominations of Christianity and Christian churches of older and ancient churches. There is NOthing wrong with that.

It is only, as I said b4, the misuse, misunderstaning and abuse of anything that is wrong.

Every church is diffrent from another. We as Christians, need to respect these differences by loving and respecting each other, not considering particular sect as only or exclusively the best.

~Ras~

June 1, 2006
9:25 pm
Avatar
Mardoll
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

4me - "It is spiritual and not religious because there are no crosses/saints/other icons, no bible reading occurs, and the only things they talk about have to do with being kind to others and doing good will."

That's not what those words mean, though. "Spiritual" is a personal belief system regarding supernatural or divine or otherwise unseen powers.

"Religious" is organized group practice of spirituality. It doesn't matter what the religious practice is, as a group, in terms of ritual or iconography or lack thereof. As long as it's a group that's addressing Spiritual topics in any kind of organized way, that's Religion.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Ras - "We as Christians, need to respect these differences by loving and respecting each other, not considering particular sect as only or exclusively the best."

And we, as humans who are not all Christian, need to do it too. 😉

Forum Timezone: UTC -8

Most Users Ever Online: 247

Currently Online:
61 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

onedaythiswillpass: 1134

zarathustra: 562

StronginHim77: 453

free: 433

2013ways: 431

curious64: 408

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 49

Members: 110835

Moderators: 5

Admins: 3

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 74

Topics: 38534

Posts: 714189

Newest Members:

nbvjczDazy, Catincatop, maryellentm1, gtnefDazy, cbkzDazy, LillianDazy

Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0

Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2019 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer