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I feel guilty.
April 21, 2006
9:56 am
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guest,

I want to reply but as usual, I'm out of time. I"ll be late for work if I don't leave now.

Later, Seeker

April 21, 2006
10:16 am
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seeker thats ok. If you got anything to tell me how I can believe that I really have anything to offer to women, I'll be all ears.

The solution is to not care about what we're offering. We just do what we believe in and we ourselves and the rest takes care of itself. Getting to be ourselves fearlessly, thats the big problem. Have fun at work, hope you reached in time. I did a post myself just before leaving for work.

April 21, 2006
10:44 am
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Oops type here:
"We just do what we believe in and we ourselves and the rest takes care of itself."

meant to read:
"We just do what we believe in and we just be ourselves and the rest takes care of itself."

Adding to the above:

I mean, arent there any little "practices" that people can do so they can start learning to be themselves?

I think this is sad. I'm waiting for some genuises to come up with good solutions.

Its about time..! Are they afraid they might take out the jobs of psychiatrists? OR - I dont know, maybe there ARE little things that we can keep doing to get better at being ourselves.

What is the work that we have to do? We have to be better at being ourselves. How does that COME about? No answers, huh? Pretty sad :((((!! Hmm :((

Well atleast I showed some emotion there so thats good. I expressed some emotion.

Come on genuises! Instead of writing so many books on self-help, tell us something that we can just start DOING. And we need all the directions to make sure we follow through. Sniff :(( Maybe 10 more years of "self-discover". Silent voice in the soul cries "help"

April 22, 2006
1:07 am
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guest,

I believe the answer to learning how to be ourselves lies in becoming fearless. We say to ourselves, "Okay, here's what I think I should do. So I'll do it. There might be good consequences, there might be bad consequences, but I'm willing to accept the bad consequences because the potential good outweighs the potential bad."

Then we would need practice in identifying the possible consequences of our being-ourselves actions, and practice doing small things to be ourselves, and take note of the consequences, good and bad, and comparing them to what we thought they'd be. This would help us objectively see what it really pays and costs to be ourselves.

What do you think?

Seeker

April 22, 2006
3:02 am
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Seek, you said...

"I realized the other day that I feel guilty because of sexual impulses I feel toward women. I imagine they'd be angry with me if they knew I had them. I feel women already have life harder than men, and I don't want to add any more burdens on them. Does that make sense?"

Wow, you know the other day there was a woman, wow, she was really hot. I was in my head like, "DAYUM!!!" And I was thinking about sexual stuff.

Immediately, I yelled at myelf, Hey IDIOT!! This is why you hate men...now you are acting just like one!!!

OK...now, alot of that is bad stuff.

1... As humans, we are sexual creatures. We are also visual and imagionative creatures. You know, a long time ago, I was taught that not only the deed was a sin, but also the thought...So I grew to feel guilty about even MY THOUGHTS!!! Yet, how can we control our thoughts? We can't...they come and go at the whim of our neurons. Thinking abut sex with a hot girl...well, maybe it is inevitable... No guilt is required. I think the line becomes crossed, not at the initial thought, but in maybe continuous obsession, or worse, acting out, or attempting to act out the thoughts with an unwilling partner...

2.... See how I grouped all men together... I said I hate them, I protrayed them all as sexual predators... this is bad, I am trying to break myself of this... It is sosoooo hard!!

Free

April 22, 2006
12:51 pm
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hi seeker
yea, you're right: "Then we would need practice in identifying the possible consequences of our being-ourselves actions."

Yes I guess thats what a recovery plan would involve. Sometimes like right now, I feel down and it seems impossible to do it. I wonder what one does in empty hopeless despairing moments like these. I was good last night. Maybe I'll feel better later in the day. sigh. Sniff.

>> I realized the other day that I feel guilty because of sexual impulses I feel toward women. << I think I kind of sometimes feel the same way. See if you can find reasons in your parenting for any issues you have and understand why your thought process is formed as it is. Did your mom or dad shame you for being sexual? You know what I mean? Remember the little boy you were. Did something happen once or regularly which made you ashamed of your sexuality? A therapist could help bring this out. Try Dr. Nathan's sentence completion technique. Complete this sentence in 6-10 different ways: "If I didnt feel guilty about my sexual impulses towards women, --" Complete this on a page, thinking of 6-10 good completions for this. Might have to think a lot. I saw thats the kind of work he does. I'll read dr Nathan again today. Just having a low day today, I dont know why. I'll try to feel better. I have a slight glimmer of hope that I'll be able to make myself feel better. Your issues are very serious (as are mine). I hope you can accept that and start working on this, so you can enjoy life. And hey rationally, dont forget women too so many times have sexual impulses towards guys. Its Ok to be a sexual being. This is part of you. There is also the part of you that exists inside you, the caring, loving understanding positive part. All these are different parts of you. You feel guilty about the sexual impulses becuse you feel thats the only thing you have to offer to them (remember you said you feel you dont have anything to offer to women?) - thats where its coming from. When you start feeling worthy of yourself, and OK with yourself as you are, you will know you have "enough" to offer to a woman for a satisfying relationship. I know it sounds unreal right now, it does to me too in this low mood of mine. A positive self-image will solve these issues, promise. Its hard to develop but I will say, its not impossible. Where does it start? First by looking at your childhood, at how your parents treated you, positively or negatively. You have to first make the link between your low self-image and your parenting, so that you know that its not your fault - but now its your responsibility to fix it, and you can. Write more about your self-image, how low or high you think of yourself. Just start opening up yourself here atleast (anonymous board, it doesnt matter even if I came here and said I tried to kill myself today, as long as its the truth of what happened). Expressing your thoughts and feelings unedited will help. Be ready to be vulnerable. Look deeper, the thoughts and feelings. Give yourself time and write them them out here. Writing helps even if no one reads it, you know! I write stuff and then I go back and read it myself -just that makes me feel better, as if I'm "over" it now, atleast partially. And now I'll post this and read it and I'll feel a little better probably and post in the other threads too where, so here I go.

April 22, 2006
9:02 pm
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hey seek-dont be sorry about me being seperated from my spouse. i have prayed for the day for a loooonnnngggg time. filed for divorce several times, restraining orders. the whole nine yards. finally it just came down to emotionally treating him the way he treated me and he decided to latch on to someone else and ruin their life. yes, i had the operation on my eye.turned out good. i just got back from being in texas for almost a month. it about ruined me. so much freedom. i met so many people it was unreal. it turned out to be one of the best experiences of my life. enjoyed it trememendously. thanks for asking. 🙂

April 22, 2006
9:20 pm
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Hi free2,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, from both a man's and a woman's perspective. :o) Yes, you're right, I can't control what thoughts cross my brain. No guilt is required for what I can't control. I can only control what I do with them once they're there.

Trouble is, sometimes I lack the willpower to properly dispose of these thoughts when they arise, especially now that spring is here and the women are wear sparser clothing.

Don't women realize what an impact revealing clothes can have on a guy? Sometimes they seem to be totally oblivious about this.

Seeker

April 22, 2006
10:35 pm
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seek - talk about clothes. while i was in texas. i was washing my clothes and i threw them in a dryer. didn't quite have enough quarters to dry so i went to the lobby to get some. when i came back , this man had threw his clothes in the same dryer and was drying them!!!! it was funny as all get out. we both felt embarrassed later seperating all our belongings. it ended up tickling us both to no end before it was over with. 🙂

April 22, 2006
10:36 pm
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free- i aboslutely love your word dayum!! lol!!!!

April 23, 2006
12:35 am
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hey seek-it's late. guppy turns into a gremlin now. soooo. in answer to your bear statement....the guppy layed low and pretended to be a flounder till the shark picked other prey!!!! :0 i think he got tired of trying ot get a rise out of a flat fish. ;0

i have been reading some of your story. i am sorry for your seperation. it doesn't sound like u wanted it. i am sorry for your loss.

April 23, 2006
1:15 am
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twinks,

I think I understand your point from Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose. I think it's sad that men blame women because they (the men) give into temptation. There might be some women who actively go about trying to ensnare men sexually, but I'm convinced these are relatively rare.

This story is an excellent illustration of why I don't believe in celibacy. Even the Bible says men and women are meant to get married to each other. I think some of Paul's writings have been misconstrued to say that marriage isn't good.

That's quite a tribute to your mother and father. Thank you for sharing it. At least, as you said, your mother knew one good man.

I agree that we can't successfully repress sexuality. I think the best solution is to teach that sex belongs only within marriage, encourage both men and women to prepare themselves to be fit spouses, and when they're ready, find a partner and get married, and learn to satisfy each other sexually and in all other ways. I think this would solve a lot of problems.

Seeker

April 23, 2006
1:37 am
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guest,

{I think I kind of sometimes feel the same way. See if you can find reasons in your parenting for any issues you have and understand why your thought process is formed as it is. Did your mom or dad shame you for being sexual?}

My parents didn't shame me in this or any other area. They left me to my own devices. I had almost no moral guidance and I fell into living in a world of my own. Maybe I just don't feel worthy of having any friends, male or female. Maybe my guilt about being a man is part of a larger guilt about just being me.

If I remember, I'll try that technique by Dr. Nathan. It sounds like it might work. I'll also try it on other issues.

In fact, I was just thinking of completing that sentence and the thought hit me that if I didn't feel guilty of those impulses, perhaps I would try to act on them. I don't think sex is right outside of marriage, so maybe I'd be too tempted to seek out an affair if I didn't feel this guilt.

Yes, maybe I feel guilty because I don't feel I have as much to offer a woman as I hope to gain from her. The obvious solution to this is to focus on what I can offer her, instead of thinking of what she can offer me.

I'm going to start seeing a therapist, hopefully next week. I've found one I'd like to work with and who wants to work with me. I feel I have a great deal of anger locked up inside, and I want to learn how to deal with it appropriately.

I'm not ready to open up about myself too much, even though this is an anonoymous board. Too much self-exposure causes me to feel too vulnerable, and I don't want to burden anybody with my woes. I'm supposed to help to lift others, not weigh them down. I also don't feel that letting it all hang out is always appropriate.

Thanks for your encouragement and your thoughts, guest. I hope you feel better soon.

Hey, do you ever read classic poetry? Not the more modern stuff, but poems from the 1800s and early 1900s. Have you read the poem "Solitutde" by Ella Wheeler Wilcox. It starts, "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; weep, and you weep alone ..." That might be a good poem for you to read. It might help cheer you up. At least it's helped me in the past.

Seeker

April 23, 2006
1:44 am
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guppy,

{hey seek-dont be sorry about me being seperated from my spouse. i have prayed for the day for a loooonnnngggg time. filed for divorce several times, restraining orders. the whole nine yards. finally it just came down to emotionally treating him the way he treated me and he decided to latch on to someone else and ruin their life. yes, i had the operation on my eye.turned out good. i just got back from being in texas for almost a month. it about ruined me. so much freedom. i met so many people it was unreal. it turned out to be one of the best experiences of my life. enjoyed it trememendously. thanks for asking. :)}

Well, I'm not sorry you're separated from your particular spouse, but I am sorry it became necessary for you to do so. I'm also sorry he's ruining somebody else's life. I'm just a sorry guy. :o)

Yes, I've heard of the famous Texas hospitality. So hospitable they want to share dryers with folks. What in the world was that guy thinking, putting his clothes in with yours? I'm glad it turned out well.

My boss and a co-worker are from TX. They're both very amiable guys.

Glad to hear the operation went well. Glad to hear you escaped the shark.

Sleep tight.

Seeker

April 23, 2006
11:48 am
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hi seeker

>> In fact, I was just thinking of completing that sentence and the thought hit me that if I didn't feel guilty of those impulses, perhaps I would try to act on them. << That is great.
1. You had that impulse.
2. You shared it here.
3. You're aware of this now.

really good! this is progress. You can go deeper and do other sentence completions to get more info. I still havent done this technique for myself, should do. its up to you if you feel sentence completion works for you, I just mentioned Dr Nathan used it. His book honoring the self is great, thats where I read it.

>> I also don't feel that letting it all hang out is always appropriate. << hehe. well. Ok. I guess I do it all the time, sometimes I REALLY go crazy here, writing 5 posts in the same thread, but anyway in my case I cant do without writing so I write. But whatever you feel works for YOU. Everyone has their own unique problems, and thus, solutions. I havent read the poem but might check that one out. Well time for myu first bhuddist meeting, lets see what happens there. I'm glad you're gonna see the doc, keep at work. Mental workout, its gonna take hard work to get our mental muscles to work nicely, since they havent since the beginning. But its possible the "rewiring"

April 23, 2006
1:50 pm
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Oops, meant to read:
1. You had that impulse and its suceeding thought (that you might act on it).
2. You shared it here.
3. You're aware of this now.

And then you can be aware of more and more suceeding/deeper thoughts as you go deeper.

April 23, 2006
3:31 pm
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Seeker, and the fact you were able to come up with that successive thought , is real cool. I seem to think somehow I could not come up with those things and even if I tried and did, I couldnt go beyond and "integrate" and apply or understand. But now that you did it, the concept is clearer to me, I might try it too, thanks.

April 23, 2006
10:07 pm
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Seek-to answer your question on what was that guy thinking. i figured it was a pretty unigue way to get to know a girl. we spent forty-five minutes sitting on the washers talking. 😉 i feel like i have known him my whole life now.ha ha

i sat out in the courtyard everynight. enjoying the beautiful texas weather. he even showed up with a bottle of wine later (as an apology) lol. we ended up sitting out there with some other friends i had collected and talked half the night. got to give the guy points for trying.....

April 23, 2006
10:57 pm
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Guest,

I'm glad I could help you with the "successive thought" concept. Hope it works well for you.

Let me know how the Buddhist meeting went. I'm curious what they do there. I've never been to one.

Take care,
Seeker

April 23, 2006
11:05 pm
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Guppy,

So, it was the old throw-your-clothes-in-the-same-washer-as-a-pretty-girl-and-watch-the-suds-together-and-bring-out-the-bottle-of-wine trick, eh? I haven't used that one in a while. Do you think your new friend will explain to me how it's done? It didn't work for me the last time I used it. She ended up calling the cops for harassment. :o)

Sounds like you're REALLY learning about the Texas hospitality. Glad you're having fun there.

Didn't you go to Texas expressly for your operation?

Take care, and watch out for the sharks. There's one now behind you -- DUCK!!!

Seeker

April 23, 2006
11:27 pm
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lol!! i went to texas over a month ago about my eyes. have the option of going back to correct a minor problem with my left in july. debating it hard. have to overcome being chicken with will it be worth it. we'll see. i went the last time to rehab a friend who had a major back surgery. got offered a job in several places. any nurse worth a lick is in great demand all over seems. 🙂 anybody who heard me speak thought i was from alabama. they liked to hear the drawl. lol. i have been home a week now. back to the same ole , same ole; except it is alot better now that all the tension, bad moods, depression, rage has left the scene!!!!!!!!!!!!(spouse)

u got me all excited with DUCK-then i remembered duck season is out! darn.

did i tell u when i flew out of jville airport i got the full search riot from security? and then when i got to dallas, low and behold out popped a lighter from my purse? (i quit smoking months ago) seems security is a bit lax. three people went threw my purse and never found it. i laughed about it for weeks. thank god i didn't pull it out on the plane. guppy hijacking a plane with a lighter is not one of my dreams. lol!!

April 23, 2006
11:32 pm
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the trick with the dryer mix up is to do it on a nice girl who can see the humour in it.

April 23, 2006
11:36 pm
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oh yes, and lest we forget i AM from texas. hospitality is my middle name. actually it is probably jabberjaws but we wont go there.lol!!!

April 23, 2006
11:54 pm
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Hey guppy,

So you are from Texas. I might have known, though how I was supposed to know, I don't know. But I know now, and if anybody asks if I know, I can't say no. No, I can't.

I get it. First find out the girl has a sense of humor before trying the dryer trick. So, it's really the old throw-your-clothes-in-the-same-dryer-as-a-pretty-girl-but-first-make-sure-her-nickname-is-aquaticly-related-and-watch-the-clothes-intertwine-together-as-they-tumble-and-bring-out-the-bottle-of-wine trick, eh? That's where I went wrong. I forgot to ask for the nickname.

I shudder to think of how lax our airport security is. To think that guppy might have turned the plane into a giant fireball 30,000 feet up! I'm going to have nightmares! I'll never fly again.

Actually, I think it would be fun to explore your middle name -- jabberjaws -- in more detail. Sure you won't change your mind about going there?!?!?!?

Take good care, and may you see clearly the rest of your life,
Seeker

April 24, 2006
12:02 am
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aw-thank u seek. i think just by virtue of being a gemini -i never meet a stranger. i enjoy getting to know people. i can learn someone's whole life history in the time it takes to check out of line at walmart!!!! i'm exagerating on the jabberjaws thing a tad. i have learned that if u look open and happy, most people enjoy the opportunity to express themselves. and thank u for the compliment!!!!
on all of them!!! if i didn't know better i think seek is being awfully gallant tonight!! are u practicing for your next girlfriend perhaps????:)

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