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Human children need a lot of emotional care. Why?
July 13, 2003
11:48 pm
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Why do human kids/infants need a lot of emotional care?

This question came after my original question which was "why are women generally more emotionally sensitive than men?"

Women are able to share more, express themselves more and they pay a lot of importance to the emotional side of the relationship, while as you know, men are relatively "cold fishes", more concerned with the material world and not caring about "feeling" and "caring" and all that mushy lovey dovey stuff.

Women are emotional because their kids need emotional support.
I was watching an animal documentary about a species of monkeys in which they told that males spend most of the time in defending their terrorities and fights, and females actually hold the society together - the thread that binds the society.

Children have better chances of survival if their mothers are emotionally sensitive to their needs.
In this way, women have evolved to be emotionally sensitive.
Why is this? Why do human kids need so much emotional attention?

If women give importance to giving emotional care, they also want to take emotional care.

So I'm just trying to see why women need to be "loved" and "taken care" of. Right now I feel men are right in not paying much attention to feelings and care and all that. I beleive we are all independent humans.
I met a women once who told me straightforwardly that her man (she didnt have one at that time) should "care" for her and I thought (but didnt share with her at that time):
"Why? Are you a small child? What do you need caring for? It was the old ages in which women needed men to protect them from physical dangers. What danger now exists in this open free democratic relatively more civilized independent society which pays so much importance to human rights? What "hienas" do you need protection from now? Can't you open car doors yourself? Surely, you can do the grocery yourself, you can buy yourself a car and go whereever you want to go? Why do you depend on the man so much?"

A friend of mine of a social science and communications major confirmed my obervation by saying that he had read in their textbooks that the reason why women laugh more is that because they are generally less confident then men. It goes back to times when spousal abuse was common and much more men used to abuse their wives as compared to women who abused their husbands (which was actually almost non-existent in old and even present time).

This spousal beating created low self-esteem (that word again) in women and though mellowed down with small bits and improved from one generation to the next, the effects are still felt and low self-esteem is thus still observed today.
Women still want to be "cared for", as compared to men.

So again, my question is this: Why do women need to be taken care of? Why does the man always have to be incharge and always take initiative? Why are women shy and not courageous?
Because hoenstly, it makes me sick whenever I see a man driving his girl around, giving her support of all kinds and while he gets all that he wants from her and we see this happening everywhere all the time.
A quotation I saw on the Internet said that women give sex to get love, and men give love to get sex and I think thats true in a lot of cases.

To me, its unethical for this type of relationship to exist. Why does a woman feel insulted if shes asked for sex in the first meeting? Girls want to spend many weeks in talking and talking to their boyfriends and developing an "emotional" bond before they let them engage in physical action.

A very obvious undenyable observation is that women need to trust men before they become more intimate, but this is'nt the case with men. Men give a hoot. They know they have to make the woman trust them and so they do. Thus girls get "played" and consequently and interestingly, "Players" are always males.
Its next to impossible to hear of boys getting "played" by girls.

I want to understand why this happens, and what relation it has to the evolutionary instinct and whether we can explain this by going back in time and seeing what used to happen back then to understand the present situation.
Unless I understand this, I'll be justified in continuing to believe that getting played means getting fooled and getting manipulated and ofcourse this doesnt speak well for the intelligence and dignity of whoever is getting "played".

That men are able to "play" girls, means they have more power over them.

Why are women not like men?

Why is the present situation of today as it is today?

I could re-write my post in a more organized way and it could make a good article, but I hope I made myself clear.

July 14, 2003
2:56 pm
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To explain further, my original question was: Why are women more emotional than men?

To answer that, we have to answer: Why do human kids need more emotional support?
If the answer is "there's no 'why', human children just need emotional support" - that would be the end of the question.

Females care for the young and males protect them and the territory. How did this seperation of roles come about? Because females give birth to the young. Females who cared for their young increased the chances of survival for their young. Thus today, females care for their young.

July 14, 2003
10:00 pm
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Maybe they have more developed basal ganglias?

July 14, 2003
10:05 pm
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Hi guest-guest!
My counselor says men are hunters....they learned to survive this way. They have not developed their emotions because of survival instincts.

July 14, 2003
10:14 pm
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Guest-guest...why do you think men don't care for their young?
I know lots of sensitive men who are guardians of their children.

July 16, 2003
12:01 am
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Survival of the species, I think would dictate that - someone needs to care for the vulnerable, still developing young who need guidance and care - while the males are away hunting and protecting. So the females do that. I guess it's in our DNA obviously. And the only answer I can come up with is - to further the surival of the species. If the woman did not care for the children - they would simply die and there would - no species at all.

Just like females can multi-task better than men...that is required also for the many things they need to take care of on the homefront, taking care of children, gathering, tending the fires.

It's all very necessary in a base sort of way. In our society, men still hunt, too. Maybe not animals for food and skins, but for other reasons. And they mate with as many females as possible alot of times, not unlike in the animal kingdom. The more mating that goes on - the more the species is furthered and ensured it will survive. Strength is in numbers.

Sure men and women can cross lines and we do. Women can be warriors and have been down through history. They can be military leaders and bring home the bacon, too but their preset encoding is more along the lines caretaking and mothering and tuning into the finer tuned needs of those in the tribe. If these things were not done, just like if the tribe was not protected or provided for - the tribe would cease to exist.

Each sex can interchange and play each other's role with more or less trouble at it, depending on the person and how much testosterone or estrogen they have running around inside them and how they've been raised, taught and what kind of role models they've had in their tribe, cultural, environment.

And men can play women and women can play men equally. I think that has more to do with being a predator, being bored and just naturally interested in playing games for the mental kick they get out of it.

If you put a man and a woman together, their strong point and weak points interlock and provide a healthy "oneness" for the young to grow up within and around.

Just like I for example, am basically very female and feminine - prefer to be soft, shy even and would even enjoy leaning into a man. But the way my life was growing up, I pretty much had to pop out of the womb in full battle gear and ended up raising a child by myself and a few other ones along the way, too. I had to be like a man in many ways, but it wasn't natural for me, I had to learn it.

I notice that when I am around a man that appreciates the softer side of me, I can show that and feel like my guard can come down which is very nice. Otherwise, shields up and running.

I think both men and women and children have emotional needs obviously and to say differently would mean we are not human. It's just that we get them met differently and we express them differently.

Children are just needy because they are still growing, needing so many different things in life in order that their development will be complete and healthy. Even a male child needs the emotional caring of a woman/mother in order to become the warrior, the male that can go out and conquer and do what males are more designed to do.

Most, if not all men that I have known who have had a good relationship with their mothers - have ended up being the best males in whatever circle in life they are in whether that is in the business world or other arenas. They are better equipped to be real with themselves and others, while also having a sense of good self worth and a balanced psyche that sees the need to be in touch with both the emotional side and the mental side of themselves. It's not mechanical, it's just a flowing, natural sort of thing.

How old are you guest-guest? Just wondering, not sure you've ever said... Sometimes your questions have a rather detached quality to them as if you are "peering" into society and mankind. It just seems that you are very young. Intelligent though. (smile)

Children think more in terms of their feelings when they are young. If something is hot - they don't have the mental capacity to understand why it's hot - they just have an emotional response to it, they cry and get all wierded out by it and so they should. It teaches them not to touch it again.

And just like if you yell at them, they will immediately think they are bad in an emotional sort of way. A mother will be there in times like this to help guide that child in ways of learning how to critically think as they grow and how to navigate as their brain develops and they have access to the parts of them that can figure certain things out. This person yelled at me - but he's an asshole and I don't have to take that and neither do I have to think - I'm bad because "he" did that.

If you do not have a mother or someone who is locked into seeing what a child is experiencing largely by the emotional antenna and wiring, then the child will flounder and make alot of wrong assumptions and run around reacting more than learning how to reason.

Just like when my daughter used to get all bummed out and I would ask her - what's going on and it might take her a few hours to even relate that to me or for me to watch her actions or interactions with others in order to put things together. Then I could talk to her on her level and teach her what was up in her world and how to better respond or interact in perspective. A male that is not wired to do this maybe, or is off doing the hunting and the protecting and is away from the scene would either be to tired to cared or just not have the whatever available to even start that project. Women on the other hand, are wired for that. They have radar that picks up alot of things that men miss in the emotional arena of things. They get vibes and men go right by them alot of times.

A wise, intuitive woman is a great asset. Just like a man who has a pliable kind of strength, that isn't so into his bulk strength and ego - is a great asset as well.

Some of the best mothers - I have seen in men. And some of the best warriors - I have seen in women.

July 19, 2003
3:25 am
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Don't know whether or not you folks will agree, but...

I believe a soul is a soul. It's not male or female. Only the body, the "house" is male or female.

Society steps in and teaches us certain roles. Women wash dishes, men kill creepy-crawlies. Who knows why we continue with these social separations, considering how much we really have evolved. Maybe there just aren't enough people who are interested in talking about this kind of thing...

Arwen

July 24, 2003
2:26 pm
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well MJ, most men are insensitive and emotionless, arent they.

Ladeska, i'm in my 20's and surely peering into the world.

I just dont find it good reason that male "players" exist, while "females" players dont exist.

Women think they can obsess about the man at any point in the beginning of the relationship and the man wont be bothered by it, but when a man does it, the women run away promptly. to me, this is extremely hypocritic of women.
they can do what they want, but if the man does what they do, they run away.

Anyways, i wanna be the male Zues bug, check out this interesting article today from CNN

Zeus bug is ultimate male chauvinist
Thursday, July 24, 2003 Posted: 10:05 AM EDT (1405 GMT)
----------------------------------

LONDON (Reuters) -- As life goes, it doesn't get much better than for male Zeus bugs. The tiny water bugs that are common along Australia's east coast have an easy life. Their female partners provide free food, transport and unlimited sex whenever they want it.

"All the advantages in this relationship seem to fall to the male with no obvious advantage for the female, yet the female Zeus bug seems a willing partner in this one-sided affair," Mark Elgar of the University of Melbourne in Australia said.

Elgar and his colleagues, who studied the unusual creatures, admit to being baffled by their behavior, which defies the norm in animals and insects.

The male Zeus bug is half the size of the female and hitches a piggy back ride on the female which also feeds him.

"The male can ride the female, feeding and mating for up to a week," said Elgar, who reported his findings in the August 24 edition of the science journal Nature.

Why the female puts up with feeding and carrying the male around is a mystery but Elgar and his colleagues suspect it is less tiring to put up with one male partner than several.

"A constant stream of suitors wanting to participate in a polygamous free-for-all could possibly lead to greater harassment, leading to the female expending more energy and placing herself at greater risk of harm than if she doted on just one male," Elgar said in a statement.

The male Zeus bug simply can't lose. He not only gets a free ride but is assured that his sperm, and not his rival's, is used to create the next generation.

_________________________________

Is'nt that great? I would want a ride and its about time that females start supporting men and feeding them and hitching them rides too.
atleast i'm sick of being the 1 man in the crowd of men who goes after the 1 women, and she picks and chooses from the "lot".

oh well, i think it isnt worthy to be obsessing about the opposite sex .. there are better more important things in life, but i was trying to understand why the male-female situation is.

no, i didnt have a good relationship with my mother, if you want to know. i have another theory that those who suffer in this aspect are most likely to be creative.
well.. life is what one makes of it. i wont blame it on my childhood.. whats done is done. i've blamed them.. and no more time to blame more. i got over it.

having a sucesful "relationship" (i get nausea talking of the "relationshiop".. i dont beleive there's any such things. its a waste of time.. thats what it is) with the opposite sex is not my aim in life or to me, its not the true test of success.. certainly not.

so i dont feel any regret if i'm not able to do that.

Frued said the basis of everything is sex. whatever in life we do, it is the repressed sexual urges that drive us to our normal life routines.
i cannot fully understand this, but its open for debate and opinion.

July 24, 2003
3:38 pm
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Hi guest-guest...and to answer your question , NO, I absolutely don't feel that men are insensitive and emotionless....on the contrary.

Why did I give you this impression?

July 27, 2003
2:28 am
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I believe that men are just as full of emotion and sensitivity as women. It's in how we raise our children that is such a huge contributing factor. We teach men that if they show any emotion other than anger then they are a "bitch" or a "pussy" (and please note that these degradations are connected to being of female gender...that is certainly no coincidence).

Men have feelings, just like women do. Look at a 3 month old male and a 3 month old female. They will both cry when they need to. Only later do we teach our children that it is not appropriate for men to cry. They are only allowed to get pissed.

Why do we view emotional expression as a weakness in men? Interestingly, and ladies, correct me if I'm wrong here, it seems that women are constantly in search of a man who is sensitive and emotionally honest and open. So exactly who is teaching our children what display of emotions are appropriate or inappropriate?

Arwen

July 27, 2003
10:18 pm
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I think it is great when a man can show his emotions, whether they are anger or sadness. Men are taught at such a early age to hide their sadness and fill that void with "macho bullshit". If you ask me, men are more worried about how other men perceive them. I say, don't worry how someone else sees you, if you hide your feelings too long, you become repressed, depressed and withdrawn. This is not healthy.

July 27, 2003
11:49 pm
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I am really glad that human children need emotional care. That is the bonus of our species. We think, have feelings, and wants and needs.

Children learn what their parents model.

July 28, 2003
8:33 pm
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Hey MJ, you are so right. Children learn everything from their parents. There are characteristics that my son has that I definitely know have come from me, (some of them good, some not so good). I really try and follow through with everything I do and I try not to have the philosophy do as I say, not as I do. We have to try and be the best role model for our children. To get back to the original question... why children need emotional care; if they are not shown any love or affection, how do we expect them to grow up and become loving, sensitive individuals? They would probably become codependent and starved for love!!

July 29, 2003
9:46 am
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My fiance's son watches him and imitates him all the time. He's really paying attention and looking for reassurance that he's doing the right thing. I think humans need this all their lives, but especially children because they know less that adults about the world, and less about how people work.

August 3, 2003
4:05 am
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why did Freud say that the basis of everything is sex? I saw a good documentary about how babies are born and they showed a beach scene and said "beleive it not, it may be the last thing on this persons's mind, but he or she is just wanting to make babies. humans have a deep desire to procreate".

Is'nt sex the basis of almost everything we do in life? So called relationships look like a sugar coated candy to trap and lure the female.

(MJ, I didnt say you think men are not emotiona, you misunderstood me, or i was not clear enough. hmm).

Men just want sex, while women want emotional support and "relationships" and caring... all that lovey dovey mushy stuff.

I never heard of a man who said "I want a woman who's sensitive and caring".
Conversely we see almost EVERY woman who says she wants to have a man who CARES about her!
Men dont care if they are CARED about or not! They dont NEED to be cared for!

Do woman want to be cared for and treated like babies, because they give caring to their babies, and thus need it too? (take from men, give to babies).

I simply hate it when I see a woman being dependent on a man, she rides with him, lives with him - just like a mother would care for her children.
In return, he gets to have sex with her.
What kind of deal is that?
Why do women make such a big deal about "trust"? Why cannot I have sex with any girl I see on the street? Why does she become offended if I say "Hi, can I feel you?"
Its just flesh, isnt it? If girls came to me and said "Hi, I want to touch you, can I?"
I would say "sure, if it makes you happy".

Why cant girls be like that? I know gay men are so eager and uninhibited - they have sex with men who are strangers - they have NO problem in doing that.
Ask a woman for sex and if you're luky she doesnt run away, she'll still say "I need to know you more".
Well duh.. I'm not a bank robberer or a serial killer.. why do you need to 'know' me?

An infant is cared by the woman.
The woman is cared by the man.
The man may be cared by the woman, but he doest ask for it.

This is sick. I hate the survival instinct, damn all sex and relationships.. I'm sick of it, its completely disgusting.
Dont blame it on my childhood in which I wasnt loved by my mother - I dont care what happened, its past now.
Now, I will need to see logic as to why the present situation of men and women is as we see it.

Please someone answer all my questions, I'll be grateful.

August 3, 2003
11:53 am
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guest_guest,
Have you heard of Maslow's theory?
First basic need is for survival, then comes sense of belonging......

This might be a starting place for you to research.

August 3, 2003
11:56 am
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August 3, 2003
1:32 pm
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MJ, i couldnt find any connection between Maslow's studies and what I asked here. tell me if i missed something.

today, an interesting article on the news, a study which confirms my finding (not a finding, well a general observation we all know well of).

http://www.msnbc.com/news/946836.asp

good extracts from this article:
---------
Each year, when she teaches her college students about the research into sexual variety, the young men smile and nod and the young women look appalled.

Sociologists and social psychologists assert that differences in sexual proclivity arise because of a double standard in male-dominated societies, where female sexuality is tightly controlled: Thus, a man with multiple partners is a “stud” while a woman with multiple partners is a “slut.”

Men were also more willing to enter into sexual relationships with partners they had known for short periods of time, said Schmitt in an interview.

Schmitt thinks the roots of the differences his study found lie in ancient hunter-gatherer societies. Men who sought sexual variety had a greater chance of passing on their genes — and their promiscuous proclivities. Women who kept their mates improved the chances of raising children and were more likely to pass on their genes — and their monogamous proclivities.

The other says heterosexual men seek women who are young and beautiful because these are viewed as signs of fertility, while heterosexual women seek men who are rich because that helps in raising children.

Because of society’s double standard, Fisher said, women are hesitant to report their true sexual desires. In one study, she asked men and women to report whether they masturbated, watched soft-core pornography or hard-core pornography. Each “yes” got a point. She found, on average, that men scored 2.32 and women 0.89.

[ Check this out, this proves women are scared and men are more courageous. I'm sorry .. it is this research which is proving this. ]

But she also found that women’s scores changed depending on how confident they were of remaining anonymous. In the study, both men and women had been told to hand their questionnaires to a researcher. But when women were told to deposit their answers in a locked box supervised by a researcher, their average score jumped to 1.53. And when the women took the test alone in a locked room and then deposited their answers in a locked box — ensuring privacy and anonymity — their score shot up further, to 2.04. The men’s answers did not change significantly, indicating they were less concerned about their opinions being discovered.

Regan added that other evolutionary theories are just as plausible as the male promiscuity argument: Men in hunter-gatherer societies who stuck with a single mate and helped raise children might have been more genetically successful — because passing on genes means not just having children but ensuring they survive long enough to reproduce in turn.

Other research has contradicted the finding that heterosexual men mainly seek young, beautiful women, while heterosexual women are most drawn to rich men. Last month, Stephen T. Emlen, an evolutionary biologist at Cornell University, reported in a study that people basically want partners with qualities they attribute to themselves. Contrary to stereotypes about wealthy Mr. Rights and beautiful Ms. Wonderfuls, he said, attractive people tend to value attractiveness, wealthy people value mates with money, and ambitious types and family-oriented souls tend to gravitate to others like themselves.

---------------------------------
good article. women want rich men (confirms the suspicion of another male here on the board, i forgot his name? "clairnot" maybe).
men want pretty women.

now you'll say "so?".
well nothing.. just an interesting article.

August 3, 2003
11:53 pm
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"Theory

One of the many interesting things Maslow noticed while he worked with monkeys early in his career, was that some needs take precedence over others. For example, if you are hungry and thirsty, you will tend to try to take care of the thirst first. After all, you can do without food for weeks, but you can only do without water for a couple of days! Thirst is a “stronger” need than hunger. Likewise, if you are very very thirsty, but someone has put a choke hold on you and you can’t breath, which is more important? The need to breathe, of course. On the other hand, sex is less powerful than any of these. Let’s face it, you won’t die if you don’t get it! "

August 3, 2003
11:59 pm
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Is this about sex or emotional care?

I detect that YOU are annoyed with me.
Yes, I am a woman. I am not inhibited and I prefer not to discuss my sexual preferences anonymously as well. Intimacy is about two people.
I find that if I am healthy with me, the intimacy is exceptional. I prefer to focus on myself and my issues....so excuse me for not contributing to your expectation.

August 4, 2003
2:34 am
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mj, i'm not at all annoyed by whatever you said. i'm here to learn, seek answers, not to annoy people.
enjoy in whatever you do.

i did read the needs article. is this about sex? well.. is it? i dont know. to me, i agree with Freud that sex is the main driving force for everything and again, so-called "relationships" are a sham, a fake front while the real aim is always sex.

i'm trying to find answers.

i want to simplify life, i want to see men and women being equal. instead women are not equal - they want CARING men, while men never say "we want a CARING sensitive women".

see? seems women and men are not equal and this creates much confusion for me.

August 5, 2003
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Men and women are different. As I'm discovering, equality isn't really the question...

August 5, 2003
7:14 pm
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"Human children need a lot of emotional care. Why?"

If human children are not reared in a supportive caring environment, they can form a very hostile view of the world as being a very unfriendly place. They can learn that their self-worth is tied to their performance not to any intrinsic value.

In particular, if a male child learns that he cannot trust his mother and that she loves him only very conditionally, then this male child may tend to view all women with distrust. He may feel that he cannot trust women not to hurt him emotionally.

Such a deprived male child might even resent the "caring and sensitivity" that women seem to want from him but never gave him as a child. He might even expect women to become as emotionally independent of himself and others as he thinks himself to be. Of course this is a delusion of emotional isolation that he might have had to create to protect and insulate himself from the pain that comes from believing that he is both 'unlovable' and undeserving of love.

Such a male child might even grow up hating women and especially his need for them as sexual partners. Such dependence on women for sex, if recognized by him, might even irritate him to the point that he wants to 'bait' womem and engage in acts of retribution. Rape and murder are the acts of retribution against women that such a deprived male might even employ in sufficiently abused in childhood.

August 6, 2003
3:59 am
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tez, all that may apply to me (except the violence part).. and i'll read it carefully tomorrow.

i cannot accept that women are equal to men, when they are the ones who depend on men for so much.
when they are the ones who are "played" by men.

why are they mentally weaker then men? i dont say this, its Communication studies, what has been taught in textbooks to my communications major friend.
he told me, they read in books that women are generally less confident than men. why is that?

why cant a human child survive and be well without so much emotional support that is usually given to it?

why doesnt treating the child like an adult work out?
i may going of topic here, but there are so many questions. .and i thought the reason why women are weak and require lots of emotional care by the man, is that they are themselves givers of emotion.
so i thought it goes back to them giving emotional care to their children.

cant human children survive well without all that caring?

August 6, 2003
8:45 am
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I've missed you Tez 🙂

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