Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_TopicIcon
Gospel of St Thomas
July 14, 2007
8:17 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Have been thinking about vs 114. A 'Woman' in the Bible is generally referred to as the 'church' in many places.

Verse 114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

I think this is why Thomas was excluded. I think Jesus is talking about the coming of Rome, Mary being the embodiment of the Vatican. If the church is only female (not literally, but possibly based only on Mary) and not male (not literally, but possibly not based on JC, but Mary first) then it is divided against it self. God says in Genesis that he will make man in his image, male and female. My thoughts, but do not know where else to go with this one.

July 14, 2007
9:46 pm
Avatar
Guest
Guests

"God says in Genesis that he will make man in his image, male and female."

No god didn't. If he did then he sure made one unholy cock up of the whole world design!

But since God doesn't exist, superstitious men wrote the nonsense contained within the bible including genesis.

I would have thought that was obvious to anyone not completely indoctrinated with bible mythology as being anything other than fiction.

That is not to say that the characters and places spoken of within the bible didn't exist in some form or other. But any recounting in the bible is mythological and fanciful hearsay at best and pure superstition at worst.

One thing is for sure: if JC had indeed worked the miracles attributed to him, the Romans would have forcibly placed him before the Roman Emporer pronto. JC would have featured prominently in Roman historical writings. Since only the death of some rebel in Judea was logged for posterity, JC was only another mystic albeit one of the great ones.

Shakyamuni(Guatama)(Sidhartha) Buddha on the other hand left behind him a wealth of extensive documentation and that was from 500 years before Jesus was even reportedly conceived and Buddha never worked any miracles except with the minds of his followers.

If a fraction of what is in the bible about JC were anything other than shallow superstition, then Roman records would abound with writings about his life and his works. They don't - so JC probably didn't even exist as such at all. Had the Roman records existed, Constantine and his successors would have demanded same and promulgated such Roman records for all to see. Hmmmm!!!

How gullible you Christians are to swallow the nonsense that the bible is the word of some imaginary Christian God. Some of the Roman Gods are more credible and they are superstitious creations of primitive man also.

I don't think Thomas was that gullible.

He even quoted Yeshua as saying:

"13. Yeshúa says to his Disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I resemble. Shimon Kefa says to him: Thou art like a righteous angel.

Matthew says to him: Thou art like a philosopher of the heart. Thomas
says to him: Teacher, my mouth will not at all be capable of saying whom thou art like! Yeshúa says: I'm not thy teacher, now that thou have drunk, thou have become drunken from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he takes him, he withdraws, he speaks three words to him. Now when Thomas comes to his comrades, they inquire of him: What did Yeshúa say to thee? Thomas says to them: If I tell you even one of the words which he spoke to me, you will take up stones to cast at me--and fire will come from the stones to consume you.

14. Yeshúa says to them: If you fast, you shall beget transgression for yourselves. And if you pray, you shall be condemned. And if you give alms, you shall cause evil to your spirits. And when you go into any land to travel in the regions, if they receive you then eat what they set before you and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you--but rather what comes out of your mouth, that is what will defile you."

July 16, 2007
1:41 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think I get your point Tez. Verse 13 and 14 aren't about being gullible.

Jesus said three words: "I am all", or,
"I am one"
All things imply their negation. This is not that. The One has no negations. It is All. Can you describe what All is like? Neither could Thomas. Of course they would stone Thomas- Jesus spoke outside the realms of Judaism, blasphemy. Jesus requested this of his disciples to see what they had come to understand.

Verse 14:
Religious practices and taboos are part of the illusion of the world. What you do to another you have done to yourself and God. Everything that you do is part of your ongoing prayer dialogue with God.

Her's a thought: Maybe JC was Buddha come back!

Tez you wrote: "How gullible you Christians are to swallow the nonsense that the bible is the word of some imaginary Christian God."

That's not relevant. It just doesn't matter. Has no impact. Christians are trying to find their way, just like everybody else. All paths end up at the same point.

free

July 16, 2007
10:40 am
Avatar
ggfred4
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe Thomas was saying that the others were gullible because they only believed the ideas in the realm of Judaism and that would cause them to stone Thomas, if they heard otherwise.

July 16, 2007
11:01 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That makes sense ggfred.

I think Jesus told Thomas who He was. The spring Thomas has become drunk on is the spring of understanding and enlightenment that Jesus had set out. Thomas had already figured it out and revealed this to Jesus when he said that he couldn't say it aloud in the presence of others (kuz it would be blasphemy). Jesus confirmed it when he spoke to him in private.

free

July 17, 2007
1:35 am
Avatar
bevdee
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 259
Member Since:
September 30, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

GG

This is interesting, the way you tied in the gullibility and disbelief. Cognitive dissonance and the reactions that can sometimes result from that.

Very insightful, GG.

July 19, 2007
6:51 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I like this one, a parable:

(8) And he said: Man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea; he drew it up from the sea full of small fish; among them he found a large good fish, the wise fisherman; he threw all the small fish into the sea, he chose the large fish without difficulty. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

thoughts and perspectives ?

free

July 19, 2007
10:50 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Catfish are better tasting than goldfish?? 🙂

free where did you find this one, in Thomas? Maybe he was talking about making wise choices. So many men made their living by being a fisherman, so Jesus spoke in a way that they could relate to and understand.

July 20, 2007
1:05 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think it has to do with catfish and goldfish omw 🙂

that was funny!

It's verse 8 from the Gospel of Thomas.

They way we are taught to read is to savor each word, comprehend each word, become part of the description on paper, form and then visualize the meaning of the word.

Try this (humor me k?) Sit back for second. Relax your body. Simply watch the words in the verse go by as your eyes move across them. This separates you from the visuals the words create. Now try it again, only this time don't say the words in your head.

Don't say the words in your head- watch them, feel them.

Can you do it?

Sometimes this takes practice.

If you can do it- I've a question for you.

Who is "Man" ?

I know- I"m a nut case. But a harmless one.

😉

July 20, 2007
3:50 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

hom-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-

hom-m-m-m-m-m-m-m--m-m

i'm trying, free.

July 20, 2007
3:55 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

free,

"Man' in this verse refers to Jesus Christ.

Do you agree?

Jesus is a fisher of men, but I am lost on the large fish. Unless the large fish is represented by the truth, it stands out among the masses of small fish?

Who do you think the large fish is, and what is the reason for the small fish to be thrown back?

Could the small fish represent no growth?

July 20, 2007
4:10 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

"hom-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-

hom-m-m-m-m-m-m-m--m-m

i'm trying, free. "

Oh my gosh I laughed so hard I'm still laughing and can't stop.

oh man I'm gotta pee.

July 20, 2007
4:21 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh my gosh I just can't stop laughing at what you wrote OMW! I dunno why- it just really tickled me.

Humming is to stop your mind from saying words in your head. It's very difficult to do that "hom-m-m-m-" and speak the words in your head.

It's also very soothing.

I do agree- I think "Man" is Jesus Christ. I should have asked "what or who do think "Man" is "

Some believe that "Man" is not a who, but a what. They think it's gnosis- or knowledge. The ultimate. God.

The rest of it has a few different interpretations.

Read it again, I wanna know if anything else strikes you.

I'm drawn to your insight.

free

July 21, 2007
2:31 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Threads are quiet tonight.

Free the thread killer maybe? lol.

Hope not.

I'm drawn to this stuff like flying things to light.

IMO, we achieve knowledge, understanding, growth, from one another. All of us, we are mirrors of each other, one.

People are reading, they're just not responding.

It's okay to look in the mirror. No thought, no opinion, is of greater importance, or correctness, or value, than another.

It's all part of the one. We're fragmented. We'll become whole when we all find the one.

Fear is an an illusion. so is anxiety. funny how we try to protect ourseles from something that we're part of. Nobdody and nothing, can really hurt ya.

Regarding verse 8, if "Man" is Jesus Christ, why would he throw the small fish back and keep the large one?

Who/what are the small fish, and who/what is the large one?

What happens when the fisherman keeps the large fish, both to the fisherman and to the large fish?

What happens to the small fish when they are thrown back? Why would the fisherman not keep the small fish?

Let's think- like a wise fisherman.

free

July 22, 2007
3:03 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

BUMP.

for all those diligently medicating a response.

:0

free

July 22, 2007
1:54 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

aa! Not medicating a response, MEDITATING a response.

That was an accidental funny.

free

July 23, 2007
6:17 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

hi free,

Laughter is good for the soul, glad you found all of this funny, and not so serious!! 🙂

Taking a verse out of context generally loses the meaning of the verse..,..so I can draw from what other verses I know and what I know of Jesus to talk about this one.

The small fish could be fish that are not ready so to speak for what the big fish has prepared himself for. The small fish are thrown back not out of rejection but because they need to grow a little more spiritually before they move on to somethng new, or OUT OF THEIR COMFORT ZONE, or out of their homeland to a new homeland. The big fish was chosen because it was ready to move forward. The small fish will be ok, if they continue to seek the wise Fisherman, and continue to want to get out of the net...eventually they will be big fish too.

Jesus could also represent the big fish as well...telling the desciples that he would be leaving them soon...but the lesson is most likely for the fish as stated above.

The other scenario is that Jesus says in the NT..."Many will say on that day that we prphesized in your name, healed in your name, etc." and he says to them,,,"I nver knew you".

Then it could also refer to the narrow gate...

Thomas is the only desciple who heard Jesus a little differently. It is intersting the way he communicates. But he was there with the others, so I at least bet they are all similar.

I tend to go with the first story that I wrote about in this post.

glub....glub...

July 24, 2007
1:08 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi OMW!

I'm so excited! I got a response! yay!

Help me out here. You wrote:

"The other scenario is that Jesus says in the NT..."Many will say on that day that we prphesized in your name, healed in your name, etc." and he says to them,,,"I never knew you".

Then it could also refer to the narrow gate... "

Please explain. I think you're referring to the teaching that when the second coming occurs, people will flock to Jesus, but at the point it's too late. We must seek out Jesus before the end of times.

the narrow gate?

Your other interpretations mirror mine. I really like the description of out of this homeland to a new homeland, when we're ready. I don't think you're too far off in stating that Jesus was telling the disciples he would be leaving- it's subtle, but I think it's there. I think that when Jesus spoke- he said ALOT. he's also saying that He will be back- wise fisherman always go back to the place they did well before.

We don't have the context in Thomas. Thomas just wrote stuff down- sayings. I wish we DID have the physical setting, who was all there, etc.

Thomas was much like the other disciples. Many of his writings are quite similar to John's. ? One of the big four- I think it's John.

Mary Magdalene heard Jesus differently as well, and is considered by some to have been a disciple, but the Roman Catholic church wouldn't have it. Not trying to start something here lol- this is just what's thought by some, and there is a gospel according to Mary Magdelene.

thanks for responding OMW!

I thought everybody ran away and I was all bummed.

free

July 24, 2007
7:54 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi free,

I went to look for the Gospel of Mary, and did not find much, but found this statement.:

"The gospel of Mary was not written by Mary Magdalene or any other the other Mary’s of the Bible. The Gnostic teachings found in the gospel of Mary date it to the late 2nd century A.D. at the earliest. As a result, there is no validity to its teachings. Similar to the gospel of Thomas, the gospel of Philip, and the gospel of Judas, the gospel of Mary is a Gnostic forgery, using the name of a biblical character in an attempt to give validity to heretical teachings. The only value in studying the gospel of Mary is in learning what heresies existed in the early centuries of the Christian church."

You do have to wonder about the content if it was written in 2'nd century AD. Do you know how I can access it on-line?

I will get back to you later about the other questions, ok?

July 25, 2007
1:27 am
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi OMW

You can access the gospel of mary here:

http://www.gnosis.org/library/.....rygosp.htm

I understand your concerns. If you're not comfortable reading this stuff, or contemplating it, I understand.

It seems all religious writings and teachings are subject to the question of validity, and viewed by somebody as blasphemy or heresy.

There is one thing that bothers me regarding spiritual beliefs- satanism. I read some of it, kuz I wanna understand why people are drawn to this, but I get frightened all the way within and through my inner core. A good friend of mine has told me "don't be afraid- Satan is a coward and a loser- he loses every time and always will- he's a big bully so punch him in the nose and he'll run away crying"

She's probably right, but, still, I get the flight syndrome kickin' in when I go there intellectually.

Anyhow, I look forward to your answers to the other questions when you get the time.

free

July 25, 2007
3:44 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi free, you wrote:

"Help me out here. You wrote:

"The other scenario is that Jesus says in the NT..."Many will say on that day that we prphesized in your name, healed in your name, etc." and he says to them,,,"I never knew you".

Then it could also refer to the narrow gate... "

Please explain. I think you're referring to the teaching that when the second coming occurs, people will flock to Jesus, but at the point it's too late. We must seek out Jesus before the end of times.

the narrow gate?"

Yes I am referring to the second coming. From what I understand about this verse in the NT, it refers to those who do this in their own power, and take all of the glory for themselves, pretending to give it to God...doing it knowingly is the key concept here. And from what I know, it is a matter of the state of our heart...God looks at our heart, in spite of the fact that we may fail. In regard to the samll fish, maybe their hearts were not ready, and needed to grow, or change...they remained small because they were unwilling, were distrustful, chose not to grow.... maybe? And in relation to the second coming, (only speculating here!) the big fish is Jesus, who stayed with the small fish, lived as a fish even though he was the big TUNA, taught them everything he knew, loved them...and they still did not recognize him. I think Thomas had the right idea, but there do seem to be many underlying ideas. Guess we could do a 'fish commentary' or write a book about BIG fish, Little Fish!

I put these verses here about the narrow gate:

Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow and Wide Gates ] "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew
Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Again, the same idea to me...the big fish found the way, or if Jesus, led the way..

Regarding satanism, why do you think you fear that when it has no power over you? It is there, but has no power. Too, evil is not pleasant. I used to be frightened, but now I am not. I know that I am sealed, signed for and delivered. I stay very much aware, as I know it is all around me, sometimes I have had a dream of it being in my home, behind the doors even though I could not see it..(that bothered me), I have cursed satan out in battle for my sons, so I have no fear. For me the presence of God is more powerful, and that helps. I have been looking at videos of the paranormal and ghosts and demons on youtube.com...trying to understand what they are. There are so many different ideas as to what they are. And there is spiritual warfare all around us all of the time, if we could see it I have been told we would absolutely die of terror...so some things are meant to be seen and some not. But I do get mad at satan and i do tell him to take a flying leap...don't know how smart that is, but i do it anyway.

July 25, 2007
3:52 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

free, thank you for the reference to Mary's gospel.

July 25, 2007
4:53 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Interesting! Chapter 8 in the gospel of Mary seems to be talking about satan to me...the soul referenced there seems to be evil.

I like Chapter 5. And Chapter 4, seems as if they make reference to ears to hear and minds to understand frequently.

Chapter 9...yes Peter was hot headed!

July 26, 2007
7:59 pm
Avatar
on my way
New Member
Members
Forum Posts: -1
Member Since:
September 29, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Going on vacation for a week, y'all have a good one!

July 26, 2007
9:21 pm
Avatar
free
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 433
Member Since:
September 27, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Gonna miss ya- have fun! i just haven't had a chance to write here- let's continue when ya get back k?

yay vacation!

free

Forum Timezone: UTC -8
Most Users Ever Online: 349
Currently Online:
36
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
onedaythiswillpass: 1134
zarathustra: 562
StronginHim77: 453
free: 433
2013ways: 431
curious64: 408
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 49
Members: 111121
Moderators: 5
Admins: 3
Forum Stats:
Groups: 8
Forums: 74
Topics: 38715
Posts: 714567
Newest Members:
lovingLaa, zokgassi, Wilthe, Marek, ssdchemical33, jack1palmer
Moderators: arochaIB: 1, devadmin: 9, Tincho: 0, Donn Gruta: 0, Germain Palacios: 0
Administrators: admin: 21, ShiningLight: 572, emily430: 29

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Policy | Health Disclaimer | Do Not Sell My Personal Information